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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:23 pm 
 

Well, first things first. Usually the RR/RC presses have SONOPRESS for the matrix, although there are editions with different matrices depending on where they were pressed (US vs EU) or when (represses). And all RR/RC editions were repressed around 1996 according to what many collectors have been telling over time, can't give you a written piece of text to confirm that so take it with a pinch of salt (although it's basically that, and that's why you find RR/RC albums with SONOPRESS matrices and IFPI codes, which were implemented post-1994).

Now, my copy of Retribution is exactly like yours, whereas my copy of TTC is this one. Stillborn I don't own. Your copy of it seems like an actual first press, unless that smudge in the lower side of the inner ring is a SID code (IFPI). Discogs also lists a repress of Stillborn with a "manufactured by optimal media production..." matrix, and coincidently there are no represses listed for Retribution (although they exist), which should be because no one has entered them.

Also bear in mind that post-1992 you see a lot of availability for RR/RC editions, and this is mainly because of how distribution increased in Europe. You can see that from Deicide's Legion for instance, which can be found pretty cheap everywhere. So it's only normal that most other albums from that date have more or less the same kind of broader distribution. Now, pre-1992 is where it gets trickier, and mainly when you get into the late eighties/early nineties because there were no major distribution deals between the US and Europe (read: as broad as they would become).

I also may be talking out of my ass with this one, but didn't Metal Blade distribute RR/RC calatogue in Europe at that point in time? You find mainly Dutch and German editions when it comes to European presses of that label, so it wouldn't surprise me if such a thing was true.

Point is, unless you bought them from a dubious source I sincerely doubt they're bootlegs. DOP's first press still sells for way more than any MC album so that's a good argument to get into bootlegging it, you know?! And just out of curiosity, how do you know your copy is a boot?
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:37 pm 
 

PS: Just remembered where I got my reassurance at the time I purchased Retribution. Take a look at the pages listed below, I believe all the matrices on your copies are listed there. I suppose if that info is correct they should be European represses (or something...).

http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/10968
http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/10965
http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/10967
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:03 pm 
 

They look like represses to me, not originals or "first presses" but still possibly bootlegs, they do appear legitimate, the matrix fonts and SID codes look ok from here.
The fact you are in Russia makes it slightly more questionable though, depends where you got them from... "Europe" is a big place

Top marks for posting good images :thumbsup:
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AcidMind
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:41 am
Posts: 62
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:02 am 
 

Thanks for answers! Now i feel more or less fine with my MC CDs (still need to find good copy of DOP :) )

MC CDs comes to me from something like Belgium, i believe. My friend was not into music (especially this kind of), so i just sent him list to check it out in music shops.

As to DOP - i figured out that it's bootleg because of matrix (and CD/booklet) looks like bootleg according to discogs (couple of pages ago it was discussed in this topic as well)

Spoiler: show
Image

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:21 am 
 

Can you put up a photo/scan of your copy of Dawn Of Possession?
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:27 am 
 

I recognise your wordpress avatar from Discogs too :nods:
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AcidMind
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:41 am
Posts: 62
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:02 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
I recognise your wordpress avatar from Discogs too :nods:


Yep, they are both me ;)

Here are fotos of my copy of DOP

Matrix
Spoiler: show
Image


CD1
Spoiler: show
Image


CD2
Spoiler: show
Image


P.S.
Just noticed that when CD on tray it's not cleat that CD is printed all around the central hole (like on bootleg foto on discogs page).

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:01 am 
 

Yeah... that font gives it away. It's pretty much as I said in my previous post though, DOP still has a very interesting resell value, thus making it more prone to bootlegging. MC not nearly as much.

In other news, it seems like this house is mine and dreadmeat's! as we're virtually the only ones replying all the time... :-D
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AcidMind
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:41 am
Posts: 62
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:21 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Yeah... that font gives it away. It's pretty much as I said in my previous post though, DOP still has a very interesting resell value, thus making it more prone to bootlegging. MC not nearly as much.

In other news, it seems like this house is mine and dreadmeat's! as we're virtually the only ones replying all the time... :-D


Please stay longer, i probably will have more question.
By the way - did You bought Ghoul CD from me on Discogs?

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:12 pm 
 

AcidMind wrote:
Please stay longer, i probably will have more question.

By the way - did You bought Ghoul CD from me on Discogs?

I'm not going anywhere. ;)

Well hello Dmitry, aka "TempusNemini". Yeah, I use the same Internet alias pretty much everywhere. :D Didn't even realize it was you mate! How's it going?!

PS: This guy is a really cool seller and everyone should buy shit from him. You can dismiss the bad feedback given by people who just can't seem to wait for orders to arrive.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:29 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
In other news, it seems like this house is mine and dreadmeat's! as we're virtually the only ones replying all the time... :-D
Ha ha chur bro! :beer:
TempusNemini had something I wanted too, I'll just keep my eye on it for now though.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:34 pm 
 

So this looks legit to you guys aye? it looks the same as the other copies I saw on Ebay
The dimple dents on the booklet are slightly different, the table is a different colour and the disc has different markings [specks of dust, small cat hairs etc]

Click for ultra mega close up
Image
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:52 pm 
 

I was talking with Daemonlord once about an old disc and the basic conclusion was that "old age can't be faked", so take that as you will.

To be honest today was the first time I heard about that band, and I have little experience with NR editions pre-97/98. Can't be of any help here.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:54 pm 
 

Dude, you've never heard of Disastrous Murmur?! :o

"old age can't be faked" I like that
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:56 pm 
 

Can't know them all (and I already know way too many). I've seen what/how they are, but then again I've never liked Pungent Stench, so from the get go I have no big intention on listening to it. Nothing personal. :p
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:00 pm 
 

I love all that Austrian stuff :nods:
Are you going to use that quote in your sig?
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japc
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
Posts: 502
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:26 pm 
 

I love all that Austrian Disharmonic Orchestra.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:58 am 
 

I think the only Austrian band I listen to is Miasma, which then again is fucking expensive! :annoyed: Why are all death metal classics from that country so pricey?!

My sig is like my alias, I always use the same. :p
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:10 pm 
 

Limited numbers made, small label, obscure band etc I suppose :roll:
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androdion
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:13 pm 
 

It was more of a rhetorical question, as in "Oh why?!". I know why. :p
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dreadmeat
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:21 pm 
 

I have a mate in Austria and his idea of "expensive" is really different to mine, lets just say I may be getting some more of this obscure Austrian stuff in the not too distant future...

:snipe:
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androdion
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:33 pm 
 

Find me a copy of Miasma's Changes for an acceptable price and I'll kiss your behind... well, maybe... :oh shit:
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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:57 pm 
 

Yeah I want that one too and you can be sure I'll update the respective Discogs pages with full matrix info and scans/photos
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:06 pm 
 

Fuck that, I want my copy!!! :guns:

Just kidding dude...
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ancientorder
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:14 am 
 

Beware! There is a bootleg out of ISENGARD's Vinterskugge CD on Deaf Records. Covers are pretty good replicas and it's hard to notice by that. But the matrix on the disc says only "FENRIZ". Anyone who deals with old CD's knows that there is no such version that has matrix like that... Disc itself also has a bit shady print. Matrix however is the best way to identify it.

I've encountered this now twice. Once through discogs and yesterday at local 2nd hand record store (which they removed from the sale after I talked about it). Crush the bootleggers!

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AcidMind
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:41 am
Posts: 62
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:55 am 
 

New question:
just got Order From Chaos / Stillbirth Machine / Crushed Infamy CD by Osmose, CD Matrix is DADC AUSTRIA IFPI L553 A0100247447-0101 12 A0, but booklet is only 4 pages: 1. cover art 2. lyrics of Stillbirth Machine 3. photos + adv. or Helmkamp book 4. band photo.
Is it regular edition or i just got a "promo" instead?

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Stone69
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 501
Location: Filipinas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:21 am 
 

androdion wrote:
In other news, it seems like this house is mine and dreadmeat's! as we're virtually the only ones replying all the time... :-D

Is it possible that one of this SETHERIAL - Nord | 1996 Napalm Records is a bootleg? I have both copies and wanted to dispose one of them. Just making sure because I don't want to keep the wrong or probably a bootleg copy in my collection.

White Logo Print - CD Matrix: 03071108 NPR 017 eruditus +49 (0) 245191250 [Without SID codes]
Silver Logo Print - CD Matrix: DADC Austria A0100184477-0101 13 A0 IFPI L553

The album was released in 1996 and judging by the absence of SID code on the White Print Version, is it possible that this one may be a boot?

Image

There was an old thread regarding this one here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71177 , but no sure comments/replies were posted.

Any help/comments from the masters - androdion/dreadmeat?

Horns Up!

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Daemonlord
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 7:01 pm
Posts: 637
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:20 am 
 

Stone69 wrote:
androdion wrote:
In other news, it seems like this house is mine and dreadmeat's! as we're virtually the only ones replying all the time... :-D

Is it possible that one of this SETHERIAL - Nord | 1996 Napalm Records is a bootleg? I have both copies and wanted to dispose one of them. Just making sure because I don't want to keep the wrong or probably a bootleg copy in my collection.

White Logo Print - CD Matrix: 03071108 NPR 017 eruditus +49 (0) 245191250 [Without SID codes]
Silver Logo Print - CD Matrix: DADC Austria A0100184477-0101 13 A0 IFPI L553

The album was released in 1996 and judging by the absence of SID code on the White Print Version, is it possible that this one may be a boot?

Image

There was an old thread regarding this one here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71177 , but no sure comments/replies were posted.

Any help/comments from the masters - androdion/dreadmeat?

Horns Up!


Without checking for 100%, it looks like the one on the right is the earlier pressing (with the old Napalm logo on the back), and the one with SPV on the left looks like a later pressing (probably after Napalm got a distribution deal). The one on the right matches my version, anyhow. I'd imagine both are legit to be fair, but I'd need to see the Matrices.
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Last edited by Daemonlord on Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Daemonlord
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 7:01 pm
Posts: 637
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:24 am 
 

Right I have a query of my own here, as this has left me a little flummoxed...

I picked up a cheap copy of Nokturnel's 'Nothing But Hatred' on JL America, and just wanted to query the below with anyone else who owns it.

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/No ... tred/12516

Basically, it 'looks' legit - slightly aged booklet/yellowing - disc has marking from use - it even has a little card 'mail order' thing tucked in between the pages of the booklet that advertises their infamous compilation album from way back when - totally not the usual thing that would be bootlegged in my eyes. However, it has no matrix code whatsoever. All other JL America bits I've seen have some sort of matrix code, so thought it was pretty odd. Any thoughts?
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:17 am 
 

AcidMind wrote:
New question:
just got Order From Chaos / Stillbirth Machine / Crushed Infamy CD by Osmose, CD Matrix is DADC AUSTRIA IFPI L553 A0100247447-0101 12 A0, but booklet is only 4 pages: 1. cover art 2. lyrics of Stillbirth Machine 3. photos + adv. or Helmkamp book 4. band photo.
Is it regular edition or i just got a "promo" instead?

Should be the real deal, although I can't find a matrix for that online. Discogs does state that the promo version comes in a (as usual) cardboard sleeve. Only someone with a similar copy can confirm that though.

@ Stone69 - What Daemonlord said. And the fact that I'm constantly responding in this thread doesn't necessarily mean that I know every trick in the book. ;)
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irionman
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:57 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:23 pm 
 

This isn't a cd, but a tape. (Didn't wanna spam the forum) Anyways, I received a Gehenna tape and I cannot find any information on it anywhere. See the image below.

Image

(edit: holy hell, sorry for that huge image. it's not a great photo hence the size needed)

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ancientorder
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:08 am 
 

It would help a lot if you would mention WHICH Gehenna this is supposed to be. If it's the Norwegian one, I didn't find any information about tape like that...

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:38 am 
 

imageshack.com has image size options for posting to forums, just copy and paste the code into your message and voila.

Also I have an epic update regarding my Majesty And Decay CD from months ago... just you wait! :nono:
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DeathfareDevil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:30 am
Posts: 576
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:59 am 
 

Daemonlord wrote:
Nokturnel's 'Nothing But Hatred' on JL America

it has no matrix code whatsoever. All other JL America bits I've seen have some sort of matrix code, so thought it was pretty odd. Any thoughts?


My copy has three tiny codes written around the hub: the barcode 7-3815-41015-2 (which is also written much larger on the face of the disc under the JL America logo), something that looks like PILS, and a third number which may be W.O. 62821-3M. My eyes aren't so great at quarter til seven on a Sunday morning, I should add, and these codes, for whatever reason, seem harder to pick out than others I've seen. Strangely, I don't think mine had the mail order card. I remember buying it sealed from a dollar bin with other JL America releases in ... the early 2000's, I think. (Beherit's DDTM and Pyogenesis' Ignis Creatio were the other two I snagged. There were multiple copies of them, it was like a JL America dump. I miss those days of magical music store finds.) Obviously I can't comment on the legitimacy of my copies, as I have no idea where they came from before showing up in a Media Play bargain bin. Here's to hoping.

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Daemonlord
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 7:01 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:47 am 
 

DeathfareDevil wrote:

My copy has three tiny codes written around the hub: the barcode 7-3815-41015-2 (which is also written much larger on the face of the disc under the JL America logo), something that looks like PILS, and a third number which may be W.O. 62821-3M. My eyes aren't so great at quarter til seven on a Sunday morning, I should add, and these codes, for whatever reason, seem harder to pick out than others I've seen. Strangely, I don't think mine had the mail order card. I remember buying it sealed from a dollar bin with other JL America releases in ... the early 2000's, I think. (Beherit's DDTM and Pyogenesis' Ignis Creatio were the other two I snagged. There were multiple copies of them, it was like a JL America dump. I miss those days of magical music store finds.) Obviously I can't comment on the legitimacy of my copies, as I have no idea where they came from before showing up in a Media Play bargain bin. Here's to hoping.


Holy shit! I've just shone a spotlight on the disc directly and these exact codes have just miraculously appeared on mine too! I've never seen a matrix code like this before. In normal light they're pretty much invisible, even when held at multiple angles. That is crazy. Thanks for that, I would never have double checked otherwise.
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irionman
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 273
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:43 am 
 

ancientorder wrote:
It would help a lot if you would mention WHICH Gehenna this is supposed to be. If it's the Norwegian one, I didn't find any information about tape like that...


It's obvious which Gehenna this is. There's only one that has these songs.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Gehenna/2155

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irionman
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 273
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:12 pm 
 

Update on the Gehenna tape. From the band: "It's a demo the band recorded that was never intended for release meaning to test some songs before recording the Malice album." "Those demo-recordings came out on the deluxe vinyl edition of Malice which is now all sold out, so you got a true gem in your hands there." I'm enjoying this monday.

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:40 pm 
 

Immolation - Majesty And Decay
COUNTERFEIT bought from http://www.ebay.com/usr/musiccocktail

New release added to Discogs, take a look.
http://www.discogs.com/release/5026588

Image
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krakhuul
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:05 am
Posts: 25
Location: Slovenia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:57 am 
 

I've recently bought a new copy of the 1999 Mosh CDL reissue of Clandestine, and there's a surface mark that looks like a combination of lines and loops that go perpendicularly from the centre to the outer edge of the underside. It looks almost exactly like what you can see in the upper left corner of the underside of the Immolation bootleg that was posted a couple of pages back.

The Immo bootleg
http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-620449-1377782283-5854.jpeg
http://s16.postimg.org/v6dh17hnp/immo.jpg
What is this?

EDIT: changed the image into two links showing the same pic.


Last edited by krakhuul on Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DigitalDictator
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:47 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Immolation - Majesty And Decay
COUNTERFEIT bought from http://www.ebay.com/usr/musiccocktail

New release added to Discogs, take a look.
http://www.discogs.com/release/5026588

Image


Let me understand.. the first photo is the boot and the photo below is the original, right?? thanx

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