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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:17 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Dio_For_Ever wrote:
Hi to all!! who can help me to identify if these cd´s of the band "Kamelot" are official or bootleg? i´ve search on discogs.com and there are only bar codes:

# kamelot-siege perilous, noise records, barcode: 6-4459102972-1, catalogue: N 0297-2, matrix/runout: 5907 2
# kamelot-eternity, noise/sanctuary, barcode: 8-2310740802-5, catalogue: 82310-74080-2, matrix/runout: L388 9842 82310740802 D21204-01 A
# kamelot-karma, noise/sanctuary, barcode: 6-4459103452-7, catalogue: N 03452ux, matrix/runout: 17770 1

thanks in advance.
Those matrices look far too short, please post the entire thing including any ifpi sid codes, logos, mould stamps etc

And as above photos or scans are ideal :nods:


Old presses could have short matrix codes, even under big labels.

For example - Borknagar - The Olden Domain issued under Century Media
First edition matrix is - 77175-2

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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
Posts: 230
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:35 am 
 

Yeah, I have a Borknagar - The Olden Domain with just 2586 7 + +, so they COULD be short, but I'll leave it to the experts to decide hhaa

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5606
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:32 pm 
 

USUALLY :roll:

There seems to be a standard but it's not mandatory, or perhaps you have to pay to use it, I know use of ifpi's SID codes costs money.
It always bothers me that some of the bigger labels [I'm looking at you Relapse] don't seem to use SID codes :scratch:
Not that 99% of their catalogue is hard to find or worth ripping off but still...
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travisvid
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:32 am
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:59 pm 
 

Anyone knows what is the original Death Penalty Witchfinder General CD?

I don't find information about it, only back covers, on discogs page UK version is the real deal and Europe version is the ¿"bootleg"?

Any help about matrix codes, etc, thanks. :)

UK:

Spoiler: show
Image


Europe:

Spoiler: show
Image

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Asti78
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 5:52 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:24 pm 
 

travisvid wrote:
Anyone knows what is the original Death Penalty Witchfinder General CD?

I don't find information about it, only back covers, on discogs page UK version is the real deal and Europe version is the ¿"bootleg"?

Any help about matrix codes, etc, thanks. :)

UK:

Spoiler: show
Image


Europe:

Spoiler: show
Image



Don't believe too much in Discogs, especially when it comes to "Country Releases" there is so much bullshit information. Not forgetting that there is a lot of incorrect data in almost all sections. So don't take Discogs too serious.
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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:32 am 
 

Definitely agree with that, it's like any open-to-the-public resource like Wikipedia, it should be used as part of a wider source of info.

I just checked the history of all the CDs listed at Discogs and asked for more info on them all, I see no mention of a bootleg in the notes or history, where did that info come from?
Where are those images from? and here we have case and point: no cited source of the info :roll:

http://www.discogs.com/Witchfinder-General-Death-Penalty/master/42692
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Witchfinder_General/Death_Penalty/1278#album_tabs_notes
http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/48702 I see 8 CD versions listed here
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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:17 am 
 

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Atheist/
http://www.discogs.com/Atheist-Piece-Of-Time-Unquestionable-Presence/release/5666135
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Asti78
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 5:52 am
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:28 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:


The Discogs info definitely is bullshit as this was never released in 1991
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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:32 pm 
 

They have clearly just used the date on the rear cover...
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:54 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:

An alleged Active Records press with a matrix that reads "ATHEISM"? South American bootleg, definitely. I've encountered a few of them like that, for stuff like Anacrusis and Satyricon to give an example.
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Asti78
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 5:52 am
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:16 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
They have clearly just used the date on the rear cover...


If you do it that way, almost each Release from Osmose should also be added under the original release year as they never change the year format. This rear cover just says "Recorded Tampa Florida 1988, 1991" which does not give a hint on the release year.
The font of the matrix tells me it is post 2000 something.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:43 am 
 

They have used the only date they can see or it's just been copied from the draft and not updated, I didn't add it :roll:
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dreadmeat
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:46 am 
 

http://www.discogs.com/sell/item/135199216
Matrix: ATOZM49559/B S1
Vektor - Black Future

I wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a bootleg of this album floating about somewhere, I'm not saying this is a bootleg but still.
Does anyone have this version?
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Asti78
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 5:52 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:55 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
They have used the only date they can see or it's just been copied from the draft and not updated, I didn't add it :roll:



I know that you didn't add it. I just wanted to make people aware not to trust Discogs data as anyone can add releases and false information. Whenever I put items on sale in 50% I discover false information on the release page or releases are added double or triple just because someone adds a "-" between cat no. or forgets a single digit in a matrix code
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heavyrocks
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:32 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:52 am 
 

So I just got the Cathedral - Forest of Equilibrium 1st press off of eBay and the disc looks different from what I've seen on the Internet.
Here's what I got:
Image
And here's what I've seen on the Internet:
Image
Can somebody tell me the difference? Did I get a bootleg?

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:51 am 
 

heavyrocks wrote:
So I just got the Cathedral - Forest of Equilibrium 1st press off of eBay and the disc looks different from what I've seen on the Internet.
Here's what I got:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/742/6jvowQ.jpg
And here's what I've seen on the Internet:
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mJ_KZPoLkODQ0aTYuvpoplw.jpg
Can somebody tell me the difference? Did I get a bootleg?

Those pictures are way too small to see anything specific, can you post full resolution photos?
Also there are probably 10 different 'original' versions of that one...

Edit: does it say it's Canadian?
http://www.discogs.com/Cathedral-Forest-Of-Equilibrium/release/3793550
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heavyrocks
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:32 pm
Posts: 6
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:56 am 
 

No. It says made in the USA.

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korgull
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:53 am
Posts: 994
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:01 am 
 

The one you bought, the disc with the black background, looks the same as my copy, which was bought when the album was first released and is also a USA version.
It's this version: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ca ... ium/443898

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heavyrocks
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:32 pm
Posts: 6
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:02 am 
 

Oh. Thanks, man.

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5606
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:07 am 
 

I've just gone through every CD version of this album at Discogs and asked for more info and scans etc, lets see what happens...
Variation of colours between countries is pretty common, I just found a huge range in a 5 minute search, all claiming to be "first presses" aka originals, no doubt they are but it's a little confusing.
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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5606
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:20 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
They have used the only date they can see or it's just been copied from the draft and not updated, I didn't add it :roll:
Asti78 wrote:
I know that you didn't add it. I just wanted to make people aware not to trust Discogs data as anyone can add releases and false information. Whenever I put items on sale in 50% I discover false information on the release page or releases are added double or triple just because someone adds a "-" between cat no. or forgets a single digit in a matrix code

Inaccuracies like that irritate me but it's just part of it, you use http://www.musik-sammler.de/ a fair bit I suppose?
I have an account there but my German is very limited so it's extremely difficult to use that site.
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Asti78
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 5:52 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:10 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
dreadmeat wrote:
They have used the only date they can see or it's just been copied from the draft and not updated, I didn't add it :roll:
Asti78 wrote:
I know that you didn't add it. I just wanted to make people aware not to trust Discogs data as anyone can add releases and false information. Whenever I put items on sale in 50% I discover false information on the release page or releases are added double or triple just because someone adds a "-" between cat no. or forgets a single digit in a matrix code

Inaccuracies like that irritate me but it's just part of it, you use http://www.musik-sammler.de/ a fair bit I suppose?
I have an account there but my German is very limited so it's extremely difficult to use that site.


I would not recommend to use musik-sammler.de as source of information as the data there is much worse than on discogs. Re-releases are often marked as firstpresses as people that are making entries there often have no clue what they are doing. So it is sometimes nice to verify an information but far away from being anythow really reliable.
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Last edited by Asti78 on Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:53 pm 
 

Now this is a weird case. If a cd has no matrix or anything, it's got to be a bootleg right? I just got Rush - Permanent Waves in the mail and it lacks all of that stuff. Any opinions?

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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:30 pm 
 

TheDarkHarvest wrote:
Now this is a weird case. If a cd has no matrix or anything, it's got to be a bootleg right? I just got Rush - Permanent Waves in the mail and it lacks all of that stuff. Any opinions?


Never mind! I just looked at it MUCH more and in various lights and angles and I finally found it hidden in the plastic, but only from one angle. That was crazy.

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dreadmeat
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:15 am 
 

You need one of these, this was my Granddad’s, it's really old.

Image
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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:41 am 
 

I really do, I think you would be surprised at how faint the text is. I went bak to double check and had a problem finding it. CRAZY!

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:12 pm 
 

I absolutely would not be surprised mate ha ha I've seen probably every type of matrix there is and some of them are almost impossible to read even with a magnifying glass :lol:
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TheDarkHarvest
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:42 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
I absolutely would not be surprised mate ha ha I've seen probably every type of matrix there is and some of them are almost impossible to read even with a magnifying glass :lol:


Touche, now I'm curious, can a cd have no matrix and be legitimate?

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:52 pm 
 

TheDarkHarvest wrote:
dreadmeat wrote:
I absolutely would not be surprised mate ha ha I've seen probably every type of matrix there is and some of them are almost impossible to read even with a magnifying glass
Touche, now I'm curious, can a cd have no matrix and be legitimate?
Yes but it seems unlikely since most manufacturers would have to identify the disc and stamper etc also the band would probably want their name or something in there, the band could probably request it to be blank though.

I've seen a disc with literally this [below], it was a silver mastered/pressed disc but I'm not sure if it was legit or not, don't ask me what it was it was ages ago
Quote:
-


Another one I've seen was just printed ascii 'blocks'
Quote:
■■■■■■■■■■
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TheDarkHarvest
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:23 pm 
 

That's really hell on collectors then haha.

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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:44 pm 
 

Hi to all, i´ve purchased on ebay to the seller "black-plastik" this cd: accept-russian roulette-new and sealed, look what i´ve found when open, what do you think? :
Image
no ifpi codes, sid, matrix...
Image
this is all the booklet!!! no pics, no lyrics, no info
Image
Image
Image
Image

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:49 pm 
 

Amazon print on demand discs look a lot like that, they are awful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=074644035421
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Asti78
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:54 pm 
 

yeah, looks like a CD-R as they have no matrix and sometimes have a surface color very similar to a factory-pressed CD. If the seller has not mentioned that it is a CD-R I would claim the item and ask for return and refund
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androdion
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:58 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Amazon print on demand discs look a lot like that, they are awful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=074644035421

This.

Asti78 wrote:
yeah, looks like a CD-R as they have no matrix and sometimes have a surface color very similar to a factory-pressed CD. If the seller has not mentioned that it is a CD-R I would claim the item and ask for return and refund

And this.

Just wanted to add that CD-Rs usually only have a press code on the inner plastic ring and nothing else.
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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:09 pm 
 

what about this, maybe a bootleg/counterfeit?
Image
Image

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:12 am 
 

Can you please submit that Accept album to Discogs, those scans are good enough and it doesn't seem to exist there.
It may be legit, can you tell us the listing number? it depends what it was sold as.
CD-r discs will often have 'matrix info' but it's generic and can be printed, pressed or *mastered [can be all 3]

http://www.discogs.com/help/database/submission-guidelines-release-format#CD_Matrix




*I need to find the correct terminology for this, it looks like a typical silver mastered disc so the term will do for now.
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Dio_For_Ever
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:09 pm 
 

what about this cd, is a counterfeit/clone...?
Image
Image

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:23 am 
 

To me that looks totally fine, but I haven't spent any time looking into it, just the appearance of it looks like it's legit.
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androdion
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:19 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
To me that looks totally fine, but I haven't spent any time looking into it, just the appearance of it looks like it's legit.

x2

And who would want to bootleg that?! :p
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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:47 am 
 

I have bootleg Iron Maiden - Rock In Rio

Who needed to bootleg it? Chinese or Russians are strange people ;)

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