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Demenekan
Deathless in Spiritual Evil

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:08 am
Posts: 145
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:43 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
The barcodes/catalogue numbers are the same I take it?
Anything interesting in the runout, etched text, maybe a date or some dead giveaway like the engineer


carnival_corpse :thumbsup:


They are the following, but still no idea which one is which.. There's nothing regarding this on Discogs..

Black/white centers
LP 1: 97789M1/A 97789M2/A
LP 2: 97789M3/A 97789M4/A

Colored centers
LP 1: Pirates Press DOOM 031 A 89204M1/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 B 89204M2/A
LP 2: Pirates Press DOOM 031 C 89204M3/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 D 89204M4/A
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:55 pm 
 

You might be able to match them up with the pictures
When you figure out which is which could you add that runout info to the releases? :thumbsup:

Black/white centers
LP 1: 97789M1/A 97789M2/A
LP 2: 97789M3/A 97789M4/A

Colored centers
LP 1: Pirates Press DOOM 031 A 89204M1/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 B 89204M2/A
LP 2: Pirates Press DOOM 031 C 89204M3/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 D 89204M4/A
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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 291
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:24 pm 
 

Borknagar could be legit.
Absence of SID codes is strange, but I checked mine, which is first German version, bought long long time ago.
It has only matrix code, no any SID codes. And I found something funny. It has fir image on area, where mastering SID code should be.

But I'm quite suspicious about Marduk. Typically on original CDs performer or album name is never represented as part of matrix code.
I have seen that only in case of bootleg CDs.
Also placement and matrix font itself is quite suspicious. And whole SID code area, too simple.
Bootleggers like simplicity, the more simple it is, then is is easier to manufacture.

I'm almost sure your Marduk CD is boot.



TheDarkHarvest wrote:
http://imgur.com/0HNe3dx

Here is the back of the Borknagar cd.

Here is the back of the Marduk - Heaven shall burn...when we are gathered (also wondering if it's a fake)

http://imgur.com/qksnAoV

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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
Posts: 234
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:02 pm 
 

Anyone agree with him so I can just sell it off?

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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 291
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:18 pm 
 

I'm also very interested to hear others opinion.

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aaf51858
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Taiwan
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:42 pm 
 

Hi! Has anyone seen this "Autopsy - Mental Funeral" version before?
http://www.discogs.com/Autopsy-Mental-F ... se/5639462
[Peaceville/Caroline, VILE 25-2]
matrix: MASTERED BY NIMBUS VILE 25 (V)
My friend told me this is the original pressing for the US market.

But there is another version made in Canada.
http://www.discogs.com/Autopsy-Mental-F ... se/4260885
[Peaceville, VILE 25 CD]
matrix: made by/fabrique par DISQUE AMERIC CANADA DX72 392 VILE 25 CD

I want to know which is original pressing for the US market. Thanks!

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:32 pm 
 

Autopsy - Mental Funeral Digipak is the original I believe
http://www.discogs.com/Autopsy-Mental-Funeral/release/1712951
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:36 pm 
 

drobowik wrote:
Borknagar could be legit.
Absence of SID codes is strange, but I checked mine, which is first German version, bought long long time ago.
It has only matrix code, no any SID codes. And I found something funny. It has fir image on area, where mastering SID code should be.

But I'm quite suspicious about Marduk. Typically on original CDs performer or album name is never represented as part of matrix code.
I have seen that only in case of bootleg CDs.
Also placement and matrix font itself is quite suspicious. And whole SID code area, too simple.
Bootleggers like simplicity, the more simple it is, then is is easier to manufacture.

I'm almost sure your Marduk CD is boot.
TheDarkHarvest wrote:
http://imgur.com/0HNe3dx

Here is the back of the Borknagar cd.

Here is the back of the Marduk - Heaven shall burn...when we are gathered (also wondering if it's a fake)

http://imgur.com/qksnAoV

The Marduk posts start here for anyone wanting to suss it out viewtopic.php?p=2395064#p2395064
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Demenekan
Deathless in Spiritual Evil

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:08 am
Posts: 145
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
You might be able to match them up with the pictures
When you figure out which is which could you add that runout info to the releases? :thumbsup:

Black/white centers
LP 1: 97789M1/A 97789M2/A
LP 2: 97789M3/A 97789M4/A

Colored centers
LP 1: Pirates Press DOOM 031 A 89204M1/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 B 89204M2/A
LP 2: Pirates Press DOOM 031 C 89204M3/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 D 89204M4/A


Doomentia's website has pictures for both releases with black/white centers, so no help there. If anyone can check their own copy of Never Cross the Dead it would be much appreciated.
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Demenekan
Deathless in Spiritual Evil

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:08 am
Posts: 145
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:07 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
You might be able to match them up with the pictures
When you figure out which is which could you add that runout info to the releases? :thumbsup:

Black/white centers
LP 1: 97789M1/A 97789M2/A
LP 2: 97789M3/A 97789M4/A

Colored centers
LP 1: Pirates Press DOOM 031 A 89204M1/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 B 89204M2/A
LP 2: Pirates Press DOOM 031 C 89204M3/A Pirates Press DOOM 031 D 89204M4/A


Double post.
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krakhuul
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:05 am
Posts: 25
Location: Slovenia
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:59 am 
 

I think I read somewhere that people were uncertain about old Voivod releases in the sense of some possibly being bootlegs. Does anyone know what the deal is with this Dimension Hatröss release listed on Amazon? http://www.amazon.com/Dimension-Hatross ... B00000I3VF <-- I mean, it's dispatched directly from them so I guess it's the legit thing, with possibly being a re-issue or something...?

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DeathfareDevil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:30 am
Posts: 576
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:29 pm 
 

krakhuul wrote:
I think I read somewhere that people were uncertain about old Voivod releases in the sense of some possibly being bootlegs. Does anyone know what the deal is with this Dimension Hatröss release listed on Amazon? http://www.amazon.com/Dimension-Hatross ... B00000I3VF <-- I mean, it's dispatched directly from them so I guess it's the legit thing, with possibly being a re-issue or something...?


Yeah, that conversation started on page 23 of the thread, and I'm still unsure of what exactly I have; I presume they're legitimate, and I should add that my scans made the artwork look shoddy when it really isn't. All I know is that there's nothing glaringly bootleggish about them. There's a weird but minor audio dip on Coroner's Punishment... that happens for a few seconds, however, but I checked a youtube clip and heard the same thing, so that must not be too uncommon in the reissues.

I guess my short answer would be: who knows?

edit: for clarity, I'm talking about my purchase of not just Punishment for Decadence but Dimension Hatross and Killing Technology.

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DeathfareDevil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:30 am
Posts: 576
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:35 pm 
 

http://www.importcds.com/Search/Guided/voivod

I would recommend getting them from here, though. I'm starting to use this distro more often because their prices kill Amazon's. Seven bucks for each of those Voivods. They've got Vader's Welcome to the Morbid Reich for $4.50, to give another random example. Their prices do fluctuate, though.

Also note that if an album has a grayed out "available in 5-10 days" under the price, it means it's not in stock and likely will not be.

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aaf51858
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Taiwan
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:12 am 
 

Malevolent Creation ‎– The Ten Commandments (RCD 9361)
http://www.discogs.com/Malevolent-Creat ... se/3024570

Has anyone seen the version "W.O. 16572-1" before?
This version and mine are "W.O. 16572-2".
I've never seen "W.O. 16572-1" before.

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:30 am 
 

W.O. means work order, it's pretty common.
16572-1 vs 16572-2 is just a variation [or variant] 16572-1 is likely older
Feel free to put up a decent photo of the matrix here though
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aaf51858
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Taiwan
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:44 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
W.O. means work order, it's pretty common.
16572-1 vs 16572-2 is just a variation [or variant] 16572-1 is likely older
Feel free to put up a decent photo of the matrix here though


Thanks!

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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
Posts: 234
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 3:09 pm 
 

Any thoughts on my Marduk? Now that we have more people checking this thread out, I think we can get more opinion!

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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:07 am 
 

Hi guys, I've got two cds: Immolaton - Majesty and Decay and Testament - Dark roots of earth.
Here are pictures of cover, back, inlay and cd:

Immolation
http://i.imgur.com/jfy4hla.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mzxU2OT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7Ft0Rud.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cZ4zH69.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QKnKLBN.jpg

I suspect that this is a counterfeit copy described here:
http://www.discogs.com/Immolation-Majes ... se/5026588
the back of cd looks exactly like this
http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-5026588-138 ... -5056.jpeg

Testament:
http://i.imgur.com/3g3IU0f.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jPixRPQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2rhCrOc.jpg
Bar code is 7 27361 25098 0
on the back of cd is printed:
06/04/2012 03:36:49 PM #75525
IFPI LN08 2509-8 D1 2181234 01

those do not match with any cd version described on discogs..
So, anyone can help me with this?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:42 am 
 

Dude, you got a copy of Immolation too?!
That was me who submitted it there, mine came from http://www.ebay.com/usr/musiccocktail
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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:46 am 
 

Well I got it from a guy I've met couple of hours ago, it's not online purchase.
So is it a legit copy?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:48 am 
 

MunjaZevsova wrote:
Well I got it from a guy I've met couple of hours ago, it's not online purchase.
So is it a legit copy?
No, not even close, it's a counterfeit copy.
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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:52 am 
 

Damn... What about the Testament one, is it counterfeit copy as well?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:55 am 
 

Testament doesn't look like a bootleg, why do you think it is?

That's a pretty common matrix layout/format for Relapse stuff, or at least the plant they use for manufacturing.
Put up a decent photo of the matrix if you can.
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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:09 am 
 

Idk man there is no info about my copy on discogs, it is maybe on some other similar sites (don't really know others).
The cover, the rest of booklet and cd picture are much more clearer than those on Immolation, it seems like an original.
Here:
http://i.imgur.com/azTRuGm.jpg

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:28 am 
 

That matrix looks totally normal to me, if it came from the same seller I don't blame you for feeling a bit apprehensive about it.
Can you add it to Discogs?
I have this version, have you thoroughly checked Discogs?
http://www.discogs.com/Testament-Dark-Roots-Of-Earth/release/3761984

Image
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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:48 am 
 

Yeah I've checked all the versions on discogs (even the ones from Argentina, Russia and whatnot).
Seems like mine its same as yours, but he didn't give me that dvd and on my cd time is
06/04/2012 03:36:49 PM #75525
but on yours
06/28/2012 03:51:33.AM #76844
so I don't know is it a different version that probably comes without the dvd or is it fake.
Also, does your version on the back have those yellow lines on the top and at down?
http://i.imgur.com/hrWMekG.jpg
the right one is mine, poorly resized :)

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:56 am 
 

I thought so, yours is the single disc jewel case version, mine is the CD + DVD digipak [totally different packaging]
That's just a matrix variant [the time]

You have everything here that you need to submit it as a new release

Yellow lines look like a border, mine doesn't have this.
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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
Posts: 234
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:04 am 
 

How much are you guys bothered by counterfeits? Do you still keep them or do you toss them or what? Does it depend on the rarity of the album?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:06 am 
 

Counterfeits bother me greatly :nono: :grr:
Although I do keep them if I can't get rid of them [fully disclosed of course] I just don't want this stuff on my trade list.
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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:08 am 
 

But look again
http://i.imgur.com/jPixRPQ.jpg
in the tracklist there is DVD part.
So maybe this is a newer version of CD that comes with DVD (whitch I don't have), can I somehow check on thier site if there was any 2013 versions of it?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:12 am 
 

True, other versions [with scans] on Discogs don't have the bonus songs and some don't have the DVD titles listed either, looks like your DVD is missing.
I assume you don't have the original case?

EDIT: what you should do is go through the history of all the releases and see if anyone else is talking about this too: missing DVD or DVD titles listed on the back but no disc etc
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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
Posts: 234
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:15 am 
 

Are most counterfeits easily noticeable or are some like the Immolation he has where they are very similar and an untrained eye wouldn't catch it?

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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:20 am 
 

All I have is what is on the pictures.
I just want to figure out if this is official release (cd+dvd) or is it a fake..

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:21 am 
 

The Immolation disc is the giveaway, the packaging is identical to the legit retail version, mine is the same cover to cover.
The matrix however is inverted and the printing is low quality but the disc is still a silver 'mastered' disc, not burned like a CD-r, it's quite well done but easily spotted.
There are some very very well done fakes out there though I must say.

Also I think maybe this one above is a she not a he, the nails give it away ha ha
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:24 am 
 

That Testament disc to me looks legit, maybe the DVD got lost.
Often cases break and are replaced, I highly doubt that black tray is the original tray, if you look at the side of the hinge is there an extra hole?
Some cases have an extra one for a swing tray, not all of them do though.
Could be a way to tell if just the tray was replaced or not.
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TheDarkHarvest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 pm
Posts: 234
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:26 am 
 

My apologies Munja if you are a she, I just assume male because it's a male dominated realm (metal in general). The only reason inverted is a giveaway is because the original isn't, but are some originals inverted anyway (different albums I mean). Also I have some cds that are pretty low printing quality, but are still real things (I think).

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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:35 am 
 

I guess it was broken and replaced because there is a Satan picture inside that shouldn't be covered by black tray. Can't find that extra hole though.

Also, I was supposed to pay 24$ for both of these, but he lower the price to 20$.
Now, I'm going to give that Immolation back for 8$ and he keeps 12$ as a starting price.
Should I return both CDs for 20$?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:35 am 
 

A matrix shouldn't be inverted, see the pics

Image

Image
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:40 am 
 

MunjaZevsova wrote:
I guess it was broken and replaced because there is a Satan picture inside that shouldn't be covered by black tray. Can't find that extra hole though.

Also, I was supposed to pay 24$ for both of these, but he lower the price to 20$.
Now, I'm going to give that Immolation back for 8$ and he keeps 12$ as a starting price.
Should I return both CDs for 20$?

It depends how it was sold to you, I suppose the DVD never came into the conversation?
Also if it came from a shop [traded in perhaps] it may not have been complete and the shop owner or whoever may not have even known about the DVD.

That Immolation CD isn't worth that much, you can get a legit one for that price.
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MunjaZevsova
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:42 am 
 

TheDarkHarvest wrote:
My apologies Munja if you are a she, I just assume male because it's a male dominated realm (metal in general). The only reason inverted is a giveaway is because the original isn't, but are some originals inverted anyway (different albums I mean). Also I have some cds that are pretty low printing quality, but are still real things (I think).


I don't think girls are into this kind of stuff man :P
Matrix isn't inverted, it's same as on the picture from discogs.
Better checks those low quality cds, just in case.

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