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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:02 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
"it was bought in Russia long time ago" :roll:

I agree, the logo does look weird, but it's not necessarily a bootleg.
The matrix font looks correct, the booklet has no fold in it? that's odd.
Has anyone emailed the band or label etc have a poke around on Ebay and see what shows up
A missing mould SID code doesn't mean it's a fake either...


I´ve emailed to Spinerfam to see if they can help me.
Please take a look at this pages:
http://www.felony.ch/night-collection/boas.html
http://www.felony.ch/night-collection/aowm.html

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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 291
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:51 pm 
 

Agree with dreadmeat, if Nightwish is bootleg, it is perfectly done

I have that one, logo on mine looks differently
Also I have promo version and on promo logo looks also differently
And on limited version with lenticular cover, logo looks also differently
All CDs have mould SID code.

Maybe you have kind of mispress?
Because matrix number looks too good for bootleg.

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carnival_corpse
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:08 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
carnival_corpse wrote:
I recently bought Cro-Mags Best Wishes, but the matrix number is different than the one listed in Discogs. Mine is MADE BY DISCTRONICS (H) W.O. 11725-1 PCD1274. The matrix font is a little dubious when I compare it with other DISCTRONICS matrices I have from other CD's from around the same time. I will appreciate if someone with this CD and same matrix can post a close picture of the matrix number.
Right, immediately I think 'that doesn't look right' because that's not how Disctronics usually have their matrix layout, that looks like Disc Mfg / Disctronics and if you say the font looks a bit off I'd be highly suspicious.
Can we get a photo or scan of yours?

http://www.discogs.com/label/332658-Disc-Manufacturing-Inc
http://www.discogs.com/label/489528-Disctronics-H

This album came out in 1989 so it's possible they kept part of the old name...
Where did it come from?

Quote:
Quixote Corporation, a Chicago based parent company with two plants, one in Anaheim, California and the other in Huntsville, Alabama.
The 2 plants were acquired in full on April 30, 1990 from Disctronics Manufacturing, Inc. and the name was changed to Disc Manufacturing, Inc.


http://www.discogs.com/Cro-Mags-Best-Wishes/release/459159


Thanks for the links dread. It seems the first pressings of Best Wishes were printed at Disctronics with a slightly different font than the used later. In your link I was able to find other releases with the same type of font. Also, after rechecking my collection I found Obituary's Slowly We Rot was manufactured at Disctronics and uses the same font. I bought it to a collector along with other rarities, which In already confirmed are all originals.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5159
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:51 pm 
 

I also have that version of Wishmaster and there are a few mistakes on the one listed above:

- There are indeed no folding pages in the middle of the booklet, but not only that but the pictures that should be there are nowhere to be seen. I have a different press, on Spinefarm/XIII Bis Records from the Wish Box, and though it hasn't got folding pages in the central part it does feature the entire artwork. There are also obvious mistakes in the artwork where the lyrics are printed. The image of the boy writing a poem is where "Dead Boy's Poem" is printed, and like that there are more inconsistencies.

- There are no "thank you" notes at the end of the booklet, as there are on both versions I have.

- The printing on the CD seems to be too dark. It's bright orange but on both pictures it seems more like red orange.

- The logo is clearly wrong on the CD. I mean, compare it to the logo printed on the back insert. Speaking of the back insert, take a peek at the label information on the lower part. It reads " (c) & (p) Spinefarm Records, 2000" but the "&" character is... incomplete?!

As much as the matrix looks legit there are just too many errors on that one to ignore it. Very blatant errors actually!
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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:40 pm 
 

what about this? no mould side code too...look at the back cover says "spinfarm" instead of "spinefarm"
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6054
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:06 am 
 

Spinfarm is a legitimate label / entity
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5159
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:25 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Spinfarm is a legitimate label / entity

But it isn't based on Helsinki is it?! :p

Can't help you there, I've got the limited 2CD edition on that one. But apart from from the "spinfarm" thingy I don't see any differences.
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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:18 am 
 

androdion wrote:
dreadmeat wrote:
Spinfarm is a legitimate label / entity

But it isn't based on Helsinki is it?! :p

Can't help you there, I've got the limited 2CD edition on that one. But apart from from the "spinfarm" thingy I don't see any differences.

In your 2 CD version of century child, is The mould sid code present or is missing like in my copy? If in a release The mould sid code is missing does it mean that is a fake/counterfeit edition?

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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:10 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Spinfarm is a legitimate label / entity

"Spin-farm Oy" is a label but Spinfarm does not existe, or am i wrong?

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5159
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:09 pm 
 

Dio_For_Ever wrote:
In your 2 CD version of century child, is The mould sid code present or is missing like in my copy? If in a release The mould sid code is missing does it mean that is a fake/counterfeit edition?

It's present, but I'm not sure if I can answer your question about its absence...
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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:19 pm 
 

Spinefarm Records, not Spinfarm records.

I remember I have Century Child LTD edition bootleg, but mine matrix definitely looked much worse.
Here is mine pictures http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=5044560 , unfortunately no picture of matrix code.
Cannot make it right now.

Also I have that 1cd edition, but can compare with mine at the end of the week.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:25 pm 
 

I have the original version though, and it's really easy to call that bootleg out. The 2CD limited edition has a download code in embossed golden letters on a white strip on the right of the "visit the official Nightwish site for hidden tracks" text. In that pic you just have a rectangle with blank (purple) space. There's also no tracklist for the second CD listed on the back.

Gosh, I bought that thing 12 years ago already?! I'm getting old... :roll:
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drobowik
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:43 pm 
 

There are exist version without download code also.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:57 pm 
 

One CD only version though. The limited version with bonus disc has the download code.

Unless you think that rectangle is really blank on the second link, it's not. Just poor contrast on the photo.

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=514750
http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=3186579
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drobowik
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:11 pm 
 

Info from notes ?
Unlike <a href="http://www.discogs.com/Nightwish-Century-Child/release/514750">the other limited special edition</a>, this one has no download code on the booklet but only an empty white box right where the code should be.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:32 pm 
 

Serves me right for not reading things. :p

Anyway, I find it highly unlikely that a limited 2 disc first edition would be repressed like that, mainly because the first limited press is just that, limited. The info on it says it's limited to 20.000 copies, which would indicate that after those had been exhausted they'd just repress it in a single CD format with different inserts to reflect a standard release. So like I said, and looking closer at it now, I find it very unlikely that a limited first press would get... a second press! It's the same way when an album is first released as a limited digipak. When there are no more copies it gets printed on a regular jewel case edition.

Unless someone can attest to the veracity of that second version of the limited first press, I'm really not buying into it. It's also weird that there's a difference in colour between the prints on the bonus disc. I don't know, but this seems really awkward to be honest.
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Dio_For_Ever
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:44 pm 
 

drobowik wrote:
Spinefarm Records, not Spinfarm records.

I remember I have Century Child LTD edition bootleg, but mine matrix definitely looked much worse.
Here is mine pictures http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=5044560 , unfortunately no picture of matrix code.
Cannot make it right now.

Also I have that 1cd edition, but can compare with mine at the end of the week.


I´ll be waiting that you can compare my photos with your copy.

I´ve found a photo of the inner circle on ebay of "century child" (spi149cd), you´ll see that Cd print (light blue ink) reaches the edge of the hole:
Image

in my copy the cd print doesn´t reach the edge of the hole:
Image

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5159
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:39 pm 
 

Yeah, top photo is how it is.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:23 am 
 

Correct, Spinfarm OY etc are legit, I think OY is the Finnish equivalent of LTD or INC
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teh_Foxx0rz
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:38 am
Posts: 380
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:51 am 
 

That doesn't preclude it still being a typo for whatever reason though, especially as it has the Spinefarm logo still there.
There is something like this, but that seems to distinguish "Spin-Farm OY" from Spinefarm Records. That CD case definitely said "spinfarm records".
Also, try out http://www.spinfarm.fi and see where that gets you...

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6054
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:14 am 
 

Hirax - The New Age Of Terror
http://www.discogs.com/Hirax-The-New-Age-Of-Terror/master/126552

We have multiple different versions of this, my copy came from Ireland and has a bonus DVD
http://www.discogs.com/Hirax-The-New-Age-Of-Terror/release/2103020
There is another copy with no catalogue number and a very plain matrix A416-11, does anyone have this one?
This is a photo of the one in question, I can get better images tomorrow, it's just a CD, no DVD.

Image
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travisvid
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:32 am
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:26 pm 
 

Guys I have a question, "repress" versions are good, pirate or bootleg, is bad or good?

I just buy Theli by Therion, $30 bucks and I think to throw this over the trash....

Is this version.....

http://www.discogs.com/Therion-Theli/release/2378458

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6054
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:29 pm 
 

What was it advertised as? an original should be exactly that, if the seller has made an error, tell them, be nice, and see what they say.
That album isn't rare or valuable [or good...?] why would you pay $30 for it?
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5159
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:44 pm 
 

You got ripped off no matter the case. 30 bucks for Theli, bah ha ha. No seriously, get your money back!
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Aaattaack
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:53 am
Posts: 295
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:24 pm 
 

anyone has tried one of these?

http://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listing/B ... dition=new

wrong listing? new bootlegs? or some kinda deadstock? Because there were some Misanthrope / Torturer Split CDs offered by the same few big sellers in similar quantity which seemed to be legit.

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:10 am 
 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DRJAOB6

Have you asked the seller?
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Aaattaack
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:53 am
Posts: 295
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:31 am 
 

No, last time I did this, they said that their stock is way to big to check the details for single items, which makes sense I guess.

But I somehow don't think that they are involved in selling bootlegs. Maybe I should just try it out and file my money back if it doesn't fit the description.

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Bitcher
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 am
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:43 am 
 

Hello to all the posters here, I've got a few requests to help me identify possible boots. We'll start with a certain Heathen album which seems to me now like a no-brainer, unfortunately. Bought from Latvia (right before hearing about this sort of countries' reputation and really about overall pervasiveness of bootleging), everything in nearly pristine condition, booklet smelling of ink, checks all the boxes really. Also apparently it's a Japanese release but there's no sign of an obi strip or Japanese liner notes. So yeah, looks like I've become a... victim of deception. :) No bonus points for guessing what album I'm talking about here right now. Here are the photos, just so you guys could confirm my suspicions. Thanks very much for your help.

Image
Image
It's supposed a 1991 release so it wouldn't have an sid mould as I understand, but I doubt the inner circle is meant to look like this either.
Image

in case the images don't show here are the links:
http://imgur.com/7a3wXqr
http://imgur.com/ddmF7br
http://imgur.com/mn4SWFX

Image
Image
Image


Last edited by dreadmeat on Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fixed the links

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Aaattaack
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:21 pm 
 

^ fake.

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Bitcher
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 am
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:47 pm 
 

Thanks, man. BTW, do you have an original copy of this version? I bought this on Ebay and I guess I need to open an Ebay dispute now. it'd be good to have a picture of the original CD and its matrix as a proof of this one being fake. Or is my word gonna be enough here?

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dreadmeat
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:52 pm 
 

The catalogue number as the matrix is a bit odd, and yeah ifpi didn't introduce SID codes till 1994
This has SID codes you say, what are they?

You've seen this yeah?

http://www.discogs.com/Heathen-Victims-Of-Deception/release/2851581
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:57 pm 
 

Someone is selling one which has this description
Quote:
this is Roadrunner Japan version!RRCY-2038, barcode 4988015073317, Matrix RRCY-2038 PH1062A IFPI L711, booklet in NM cond., incl OBI and extra lyric sheet in Japanese letters
Which needs to be submitted separately, I'll give them a nudge.
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Bitcher
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 am
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:14 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
The catalogue number as the matrix is a bit odd, and yeah ifpi didn't introduce SID codes till 1994
This has SID codes you say, what are they?

You've seen this yeah?

http://www.discogs.com/Heathen-Victims-Of-Deception/release/2851581

Yes, I have, the pictures don't include the bottom side of the CD unfortunately, but the front doesn't seem to have any numbers in the inner circle which is different from what I've got. Everything else, apart from the obi strip/liner notes seems identical. And no, the cd doesn't have sid codes, I mentioned them in case anyone would ask as they're usually tiny and may not be visible on a normal photo.

dreadmeat wrote:
Someone is selling one which has this description
Quote:
this is Roadrunner Japan version!RRCY-2038, barcode 4988015073317, Matrix RRCY-2038 PH1062A IFPI L711, booklet in NM cond., incl OBI and extra lyric sheet in Japanese letters
Which needs to be submitted separately, I'll give them a nudge.


You mean you contacted them for photos? If so, well then thanks a lot.

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:11 am 
 

I asked them to submit theirs as a separate release, it's clearly quite different, if they don't I'll report the listing and Discogs staff will tell them.
Can you submit yours to Discogs as an unofficial release?
The text on your disc looks blurry and the centre of the disc looks very different, Japanese pressed discs and printing etc is usually high quality
Was yours sealed? which is almost irrelevant because you can get CD sealing machines and cellophane easily... but still
What was it sold to you as? where did it come from? can we get a link to see the original 'listing'?
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Bitcher
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 am
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:21 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
Can you submit yours to Discogs as an unofficial release?

I may do it after I've got a refund. However, a photo of the bottom side of an original Japanese release would still be very useful. Here are some other photos of this album that someone posted as bootlegs, but they're again different from mine: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y44 ... 147c13.jpg
Quote:
The text on your disc looks blurry and the centre of the disc looks very different

On close inspection, some elements do look off, though all the text is certainly legible.
Quote:
Was yours sealed?

Nope.
Quote:
What was it sold to you as? where did it come from? can we get a link to see the original 'listing'?

It was sold as "factory pressed", here's the link: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEATHEN-Victi ... true&rt=nc

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:31 am 
 

Sane link: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361032122181
You need to do some investigating, too many variables need confirming.
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Bitcher
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 am
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:17 am 
 

Well that's why I'm here, I doubt there's a better place for checking your metal CDs on the net now, is there?
BTW: I've used some software to determine whether it's a CD or CD-R and found it it's a CD. Does it mean anything or do bootlegers fabricate their discs using this format too?

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:43 pm 
 

We can see it's a factory pressed disc, burned CD-rs look green typically, it's the dye layer.
I reckon you should scope out Discogs, Popsike, Musik Sammler, Amazon, GEMM, Yahoo.jp and http://heavymetalcd.com/ etc
In the meantime hopefully someone who has one can comment

Good photo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171445142924
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drobowik
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 291
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:35 pm 
 

Sealed Japanese edition without OBI-strip is 99,9999999% bootleg.

Here comes pictures of original Heathen - Victims Of Deception
This one manufactured in 1991, so definitely no SID codes on CD.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Matrix code was real headache to picture, but this is probably my mobile phone fault, maybe it is easier with real camera.

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drobowik
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 291
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:52 pm 
 

One more advice, original old Japanese releases never sold for low price and by "Buy It Now" on Ebay. Probably in Japan it is possible to buy for 5-10 bucks something rare, but not on Ebay.

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