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void_jester
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:15 pm
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:10 pm 
 

Considering the extreme zealous piety of Deathspell Omega's religious and philosophical focus and approach and the lyrical content, it can be assumed that the reason why Hasjarl (the primary creative force) of DsO is so devout is due to his own direct religious/mystical experiences, catalyzed by ingestion of consciousness-altering keys. This hypothesis is entirely supported by these words found in the Diabolus Absconditus lyrics:

Quote:
“Diabolus Absconditus”: the conjunction of intellect and psychotropic-altered senses supported by insistent and archaic sounds


With that said, one can only wonder what types of visions he/they have had and what sort of esoteric approaches they take in their entheogenic meditations. Of course, for those who are aware of the true nature of what entheogens are (natural substances which 'generate the divine within'), and proper usage of their functions, and the consideration of the experiences in a mystical sense, well, one can see how easy it is for someone to become devoutly spiritual following serious and responsible usage.

One can only wonder what twisted but profound visions and contacts DsO have had that inspired them to take the focus they hold now.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:14 pm 
 

Was that a "drugs are cool because their music is great" kind of statement there?! :scratch:
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void_jester
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:17 pm 
 

No, it's merely an observation that altered states of consciousness figured heavily into their philosophical and musical focus. Those lyrics are largely overlooked but coming across them helps to explain alot about the band and their methods.

It's also clear you're uninformed about the significant difference between toxic narcotics and natural sacraments used responsibly for thousands of years by indigenous cultures which incorporated their usage into their spiritual and religious societal paradigms. Let's not get into that however, so as to avoid turning this into a mud-slinging debate on the ethics and technicalities of substances.

I just wanted to point out the connection between DsO and their constant religious reverence and cryptic description of visions and the entheogen/psychedelic factor that they subtly mentioned in their lyrics, but a subtle mention that speaks volumes about the mystery surrounding them.

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androdion
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:39 pm 
 

void_jester wrote:
It's also clear you're uninformed about the significant difference between toxic narcotics and natural sacraments used responsibly for thousands of years by indigenous cultures which incorporated their usage into their spiritual and religious societal paradigms. Let's not get into that however, so as to avoid turning this into a mud-slinging debate on the ethics and technicalities of substances.

You do realise that the word "drug" refers to a compost that has a chemical effect on a body. Now the fact that it was cooked up by some methhead or religiously extracted by a native, as done on rituals for thousands of years, doesn't change the fact that they're both substances that produce a chemical effect on the ones who take them, i.e. drugs. Penicillin is a drug you know?! As to me being uninformed I can assure that I'm not, I'm well aware of the indigenous rituals of harnessing the "powers of the Earth and summoning the Spirits" or whatever you want to call it. It's called taking drugs! You said it yourself, they take substances to induce visions. The fact that there's a ritualistic way of taking drugs doesn't make it less true that, well, you're taking drugs!

Now I'm not condoning who does this kind of things nor am I criticizing, I was just surprised to see the way you phrased it, as if they had been touched by the divine and took that inspiration to write their (according to some) brilliant albums.

void_jester wrote:
I just wanted to point out the connection between DsO and their constant religious reverence and cryptic description of visions and the entheogen/psychedelic factor that they subtly mentioned in their lyrics, but a subtle mention that speaks volumes about the mystery surrounding them.

You know I could have let it pass, I really could. But I just have something against the deifying of earthly idols, as if they had been touched by the divine. Maybe I'm just being rude here but people have been taking drugs for ages now and while that made some things actually happen it's not an immediate synonym with actual movement, if you catch my drift.

The guys of DSO are purposely mysterious and "mystical" and I can understand some people being grabbed by that sense of mysteriousness. With that being said a mystery is just as good of a way to sell something, as is shameless promotion and genre-hopping. But I shall not dwell into that more at the expense of being persecuted by the DSO fans, eh.
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void_jester
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:00 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Now I'm not condoning who does this kind of things nor am I criticizing, I was just surprised to see the way you phrased it, as if they had been touched by the divine and took that inspiration to write their (according to some) brilliant albums.


It's not unlikely to think that these substances catalyzed such experiences that had a profound personal impact on them, as there are those who consider their ritual usage divine communion, and it can certainly go far beyond simply "harnessing the powers of the Earth" or evoking some random spirits, although these can certainly be facilitated, but greater purposes can be achieved by the serious adherent.

androdion wrote:
void_jester wrote:
I just wanted to point out the connection between DsO and their constant religious reverence and cryptic description of visions and the entheogen/psychedelic factor that they subtly mentioned in their lyrics, but a subtle mention that speaks volumes about the mystery surrounding them.

You know I could have let it pass, I really could. But I just have something against the deifying of earthly idols, as if they had been touched by the divine. Maybe I'm just being rude here but people have been taking drugs for ages now and while that made some things actually happen it's not an immediate synonym with actual movement, if you catch my drift.

The guys of DSO are purposely mysterious and "mystical" and I can understand some people being grabbed by that sense of mysteriousness. With that being said a mystery is just as good of a way to sell something, as is shameless promotion and genre-hopping. But I shall not dwell into that more at the expense of being persecuted by the DSO fans, eh.


Ah, you misunderstand me in the sense that I'm not deifying them whatsoever or placing them on any sort of pedestal and it's foolish to deify any earthly being as none are composed of a different core essence than another. I kneel to none but the One. It's just simple acknowledgement and speculation. Mystical experiences can befall anyone, are free to be pursued by any, and such blessings and illuminations can be unveiled by any who ardently seek. Being "touched by the divine" isn't as farfetched or impossible a circumstance as you may think, and it wouldn't really be being "touched" by some external force as it would be uncovering the essence of the Self.

I would say though that these sacraments did catalyze some 'actual movement', otherwise there would be no such art/practice as "shamanism" and no tangible effects and progress from its practitioners. I don't find your statement to be rude though and would hope there is no tension here between us. :)

But, in regards to the true manner that Deathspell Omega incorporate this particular factor into their music and lives, it's anyone's guess if they're off running around in forests on mushrooms communing with some evoked demons or meditating quietly on unspeakably dark forces in some basement on Ayahuasca or peyote cactus, who knows? What is known is that "psychotropic-altered senses" figures into some aspect of their creative and spiritual endeavors.

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Cruciphage
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:41 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:10 pm 
 

Could be they were writing about something they find intriguing or simply dabbled in. Could be they were telling a story. Just sayin'.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:17 pm 
 

There's always a bit of tension when arguments are being exchanged, but no bad blood on my part for sure. I'm an easy going guy. ;)

Your more detailed insight proved quite an entertaining reading and I have to say that I can see your point of view and actually agree with it. Especially on this part:
void_jester wrote:
Being "touched by the divine" isn't as farfetched or impossible a circumstance as you may think, and it wouldn't really be being "touched" by some external force as it would be uncovering the essence of the Self.

I think that when people find inspiration to do something while under the influence of whatever they are on, make it as if they had gotten there because of said substance. People often forget that the power lies within oneself and that sometimes you just need a push to get there. It's not the push per se that gives you said power as it has always been there for the taking, but yeah it helps a tad. But it doesn't need to be something mystical as much as it needs to be self-realization. :)

I just wish people would me more open-minded to their inner strength instead of concentrating their forces on some "magical ladder" to reach there, if you know what I mean. ;)
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6174
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:50 pm 
 

Quote:
catalyzed by ingestion of consciousness-altering keys.

:lol:

Caused by taking drugs. This isn't anus, there's no need to try that hard.
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daemon_necromaton
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:18 am
Posts: 346
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:38 pm 
 

The more drugs you do, the better the music. Simple but true.

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 3820
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:29 pm 
 

daemon_necromaton wrote:
The more drugs you do, the better the music. Simple but true.


The Rolling Stones stand a (miraculously) living testament to the falsity of this statement.
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MazeofTorment
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:06 pm
Posts: 2035
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:17 am 
 

Perhaps my reaction is partly due to my love for this band and the deep rooted interest I have in what they represent, but damn guys, chill! :lol: I think for fans of the band and for anyone that is interested in the deeper philosophical and spiritual connections that art has with Being, something like the use of mind altering substances is very much a worthwhile topic of discussion with regards to how it interacts with the artists creative process and how that process ultimately manifests itself in the artwork itself. The initial reaction to such a topic isn't surprising, the use of drugs to induce spiritual transformation, epiphanies, etc, is always contested and discussed, but lets try to keep it centered around the the work of the band themselves and not so heavily concentrated on what inevitably becomes shit flinging over whether or not you agree with the method in question, the validity of ones religious/spiritual interpretations, and the like.

Personally, I think its very much likely that Hasjarl would be open to substances and probably has used them before given the full thrust of DsO as a project. But if you read the whole transcript of lyrics from this release, like many of their other lyrics (Notably on Fas and some of the other eps), part of it reads like a philosophic essay(an Existentialist one, to be particular) and part of it has that very interesting religious element to it that kind of ties things together and puts DsO in a realm of their own. While they recognize the limits of human cognition, I think that perception = reality/meaning for them to the extent that they believe its possible to experience something beyond themselves and that this project is their primary outlet for expressing something transcendental and eternal.

"We must seek for it in the feeling of dying,
In those unbearable moments when it seems to us that we are dying
Because the existence in us,
During these interludes,
Exists through nothing but a sustaining and ruinous excess


These last segments before the ending line quoted by the OP seem to signify the lack of fullness that characterizes the everyday of existence and that only by being intimately aware(Almost thinking of Heidegger's Being-Towards-Death here) of our finitude, our eventuality, our minuscule existence, can we connect with something greater than ourselves, namely, the eternal. Furthermore, its always said that the use of certain drugs aids and facilitates this type of awareness or openness. That being said, the line pointed out is telling and certainly has great relevance assuming DsO are true to their art, something I don't doubt. Can't rule out that its just part of some abstract storytelling but the lyrics seem very discursive and philosophical to me for the most part, and I think its interesting to imagine the kinds of experiences hes had under such substances. For what its worth, they must have been pretty damn powerful because I know I feel a very raw, intimate connection with the art its resulted in.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4195
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:18 am 
 

Good post there. ;)

I just fear that if this gets overblown a couple of years from now you'll find a newer generation of wannabe musicians who may take this as a valid example for creating music. I don't mean to sound like an old fart here but once you begin to associate drug consumption, of any kind and independently of the attenuant conditions that have been discussed above, with excelling in obscure music it's a one step away for mindless numbs to take that as a winning process. Youth is very easily influenced and I can see a scenario where this would be a reality, although I don't think that DSO fans are that much to warrant world domination. :) However history has proved that all that humanity needs is one, good or bad, example to follow.

Maybe I'm being overly fatalistic here but DSO stands out to me as the type of band, or rather having the type of followers, that would gladly fall on their swords for their idols. You know, fanboys! :lol: So I wouldn't be surprised to see the materialization of said scenario.
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samekh
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:36 am
Posts: 1118
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:08 am 
 

They're not "visions." They're hallucinations caused by your mind being fucked up by foreign substances.

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MazeofTorment
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:06 pm
Posts: 2035
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:58 am 
 

Yeah, androdion, I don't blame you for your trepidation on this topic. It's a slippery slope and I mostly agree with you. In fact, I got a good laugh out of your second post, towards the end of your first paragraph because it was exactly like something I said to a friend many years ago. We were discussing a friend that was really into psychedelics and how they can be a gateway towards enlightenment and the like and I was just like "Dude, you're doin drugs" :lol:

So, I'm actually fairly close to your position. I guess I just really respect the work of DsO and find it to be worthy of such a discussion in this particular case.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:23 am 
 

Oh I respect DSO as well, despite my personal view and opinion of the band. They're doing their "thing" which is as valid as any other. ;)

Sometimes "enlightenment" can go horribly wrong though, I remember a story of a friend of a friend who spent a whole 4 hours running away from flying dolphins! True story from the psychedelic front. :-D
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Wolfgong
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 66
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:26 pm 
 

I have a strong feeling most DSO lyrics and music was written in the bathroom, long struggles to shake loose the poop, that dehydrated one that is just lodged in there. Generates a feeling of jesus like epicness when finally busts free.

If not toilet music created primarily, then I would assume it was mainly composed by the Thesarus bible combo pack available at most failing religious stores nationwide.

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Misfit74
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 1456
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:45 pm 
 

So getting high influences their music? I can hardly believe this. I mean, that never happens.
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Marag
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:04 pm 
 

Wolfgong wrote:
I have a strong feeling most DSO lyrics and music was written in the bathroom, long struggles to shake loose the poop, that dehydrated one that is just lodged in there. Generates a feeling of jesus like epicness when finally busts free.

If not toilet music created primarily, then I would assume it was mainly composed by the Thesarus bible combo pack available at most failing religious stores nationwide.


I don't know where or how it was composed, but I'm pretty sure they were wearing berets while doing it.

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KE3useer
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 139
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:26 am 
 

"Drugs" are for children.

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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:33 am 
 

Time for the rehab.
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