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Alexr1129
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:48 pm
Posts: 7
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:47 am 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
No, they don't agree that Islam should be followed. Neither did Hitler. I said "NSBMers likely agree with his analysis" regarding "very specific attributes of Islam he approved of within a very specific context". Please comprehend before responding.


I knew there would be a Hitler reference here somewhere.
Godwin's Law?
Quote:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:06 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Hitler believed that Islam was far better suited to his third Reich, as a tool to control the masses

Riiiiight... o_O
May I ask where you got that information?
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Celtic Frosted Flakes wrote:
Compared to how it is here in Sweden, fascism sounds like paradise.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 870
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:15 am 
 

Alexr1129 wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
No, they don't agree that Islam should be followed. Neither did Hitler. I said "NSBMers likely agree with his analysis" regarding "very specific attributes of Islam he approved of within a very specific context". Please comprehend before responding.


I knew there would be a Hitler reference here somewhere.
Godwin's Law?
Quote:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


Really? With "NSBM" in the title of the thread? Who would have thought! You, good sir, are a genius!

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BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:25 am 
 

inhumanist wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Hitler believed that Islam was far better suited to his third Reich, as a tool to control the masses

Riiiiight... o_O
May I ask where you got that information?


Albrecht Speer, one of Hitler's closest friends, or confidants, wrote a little bit about it in his memoirs, IIRC, you can read up on what little is said about it on Wikipedia. I don't think it's all that well known, I was a little surprised myself. He believed Arabs themselves were inferior, though (however, most likely for political reasons, his party had some ties to Arabs in the Middle East), which is hardly surprising, given his ideology about race.


Alexr1129 wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
No, they don't agree that Islam should be followed. Neither did Hitler. I said "NSBMers likely agree with his analysis" regarding "very specific attributes of Islam he approved of within a very specific context". Please comprehend before responding.


I knew there would be a Hitler reference here somewhere.
Godwin's Law?
Quote:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


I was the one to mention it first, but as it's already been stated above, this is a thread discussing NSBM.

John_Sunlight wrote:
What do you want? The principle is simple, though in practice obviously it's more nuanced and has to be understood in context. Westerners going on and on about the evils of islam is a pretty big red flag that they are probably racist.


I'd agree to this to a certain extent, I mean someone talking about the holocaust in a way that challenges the official story is more than likely someone that has an agenda against Jews, but it doesn't mean everyone is. Likewise, Islam is a religion, not a race, and there are plenty of European Muslims now, and I don't just mean families originating outside of the continent. It's entirely possible to condemn Islam much like Christianity and the worst examples of those who practice it, without attacking the "race" it originated from. I think a good example would be the recent conviction of two Pakistani living in Britain parents for conducting an honour killing of their daughter for becoming too western and abandoning what they perceived to be Islamic (I'm assuming this is a very rare occurrence though). I was also reading a story where a journalist was held and threatened at gunpoint in Syria by white, British "Jihaddists". I mean, if I wrote a song about that kind of stuff, how would I be any different to people damning Christianity?
Anyway, long story short, yeah, I agree it's a possible indicator, but you're generalising just as much as someone that says anyone who's a Muslim is probably terrorist.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4673
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:04 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
No, they don't agree that Islam should be followed. Neither did Hitler. I said "NSBMers likely agree with his analysis" regarding "very specific attributes of Islam he approved of within a very specific context". Please comprehend before responding.


What "specifics" are we talking about? Hitler believed that Islam was far better suited to his third Reich, as a tool to control the masses, and he certainly did know about controlling people. I don't see why that makes it any less relevant to the point I was making. Any supposed NSBM band that specifically opposes Islam would be extremely hypocritcal to agree with that sentiment. That's all.

Not at all. Hitler did not convert to Islam or attempt to spread Islam within his sphere. He saw an aspect of it he liked, he did not declare it wholly good or correct or worth adopting as his own. NSBMers can likewise see an aspect of it which they could approve of while disapproving and opposing it as a whole. This is in no way hypocritical.
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BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:14 am 
 

Shit, I didn't mean to imply he was. From what I've read, he was essentially lamenting how shitty Christianity was in comparison. It would have been a pipe dream at best for him, if even that.

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StellarGraves
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:18 am 
 

the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
Taake had a shirt in the lat few years with anti-islam on the back. Takes some balls given the current political climate and wars in the east.


No..
It takes balls when you live among the people you declare hate of.. And not when walking your dog in the cold Northern European mountains.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4673
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:22 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
I'd agree to this to a certain extent, I mean someone talking about the holocaust in a way that challenges the official story is more than likely someone that has an agenda against Jews, but it doesn't mean everyone is... Anyway, long story short, yeah, I agree it's a possible indicator, but you're generalizing just as much as someone that says anyone who's a Muslim is probably terrorist.

Yes, in principle, the two are separate, in practice, in most political conversation, particularly those not involving mega-geniuses like ourselves, that you might see on TV or in the breakroom at work, everything Islamic, Arabic and middle-eastern are one amorphous, continuous mass. I generalize because it is not absolute, but it is general. When westerners criticize and denigrate Islam specifically and consistently it is virtually guarantied that there is racial stuff involved with them. An average non-racist, when criticizing Islam, will take care to integrate and acknowledge the influence of other factors, particularly including western imperialism and political activity in the middle east, in what is widely perceived in the west as the evils of Islam. Those who consistently fail to do this and/or fail to acknowledge the general normalcy of Muslims as compared to other people when consistently criticizing Islam are probably racist. This is the truth of the principle when observed in social practice and is the moment where it has practical bearing on our lives. Declaring the conversation over, having consensus on the principle before that moment has been reached, as TPM tried to is demonstrative of the incomplete thinking widely evinced in this thread. Folks like him, consciously or not, want that completer truth not to be reached such that many regular people who post the average kind of post you see in this thread will come to believe that there is a genuine parity of principle between he and they.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:20 am 
 

I think it has to be noted that anti-islamic metal bands, if they are anything like anti-christian metal bands, don't really "criticize" Islam. Anti religious metal usually consists of mockery and insults, not of argumentative criticism. Having said that, both criticism and mockery always focus on certain aspects of their subject. Criticizing/insulting muslims is not the same as criticizing/insulting organized Islam/the Koran/politics of muslim countries etc.. These things are all more or less parts of Islam but have very different implications. If some redneck says "dirty muslims" he almost certainly means Arabs which makes it a racist slur by implication. If he says the Koran glorifies violence it's likely because he hasn't read it but not because he's being racist.
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Celtic Frosted Flakes wrote:
Compared to how it is here in Sweden, fascism sounds like paradise.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

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BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:36 pm 
 

It's likely you haven't read it either if you think that.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/q ... _list.html

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:16 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
It's likely you haven't read it either if you think that.

Think what? That some redneck hasn't read the Koran? The "because" was a figure of speech, I don't care about the Koran.
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Celtic Frosted Flakes wrote:
Compared to how it is here in Sweden, fascism sounds like paradise.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

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Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 447
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:11 pm 
 

Well, it all depends on the formulation, but fundamentally, they are not the same. Anti-islam implies resistance against a religion - a doctrine. At the very most, it's the resistance against a certain culture. National-socialism, however, is about racial superiority, a factor determined before birth, and is therefore much more restricting. Moreover, anti-islam doesn't have the same implications as national-socialism, which has, in WW2, profiled itself as an ideology of literal extermination of not only Jews, but also homosexuals, gypsies, and even Slavs. I don't think you can compare the two, as one resists against an idea while the other resists against ethnically determined factors. Judgin by the state of affairs of contemporary society, however, the two will probably be received similarly.
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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2637
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:05 pm 
 

I wonder how Hitler thought Islam was suitablish for the third reich considering how decentralised it is.

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
It's likely you haven't read it either if you think that.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/q ... _list.html


interesting site. I will investigate it further if i wont forget and clear up some things this site claims that i know are incorrect.

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BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:56 pm 
 

It's pretty thorough, though some notes are rather humourous, which is forgivable since the source material is utter schlock anyway. It would never sway a believer, or they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Edit: I made a bit of a mistake, I only linked to "cruelty and violence" found in the second chapter, not the entirety of the Quran.

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bensabre
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:12 am 
 

there is no diffrence betwin NSBM and Anti-Islam when its comes from non islamic countrys.

if your not living in a islamic country(or come from a muslim background) and you are Anti-Islam. you are not hating Islam as a religion you are hating muslims as people. and that just the same as NSBM hating jews and blacks.....

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the_empyreal_lexicon
Captured in Eternity's Eye

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:54 pm
Posts: 229
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:42 am 
 

StellarGraves wrote:
the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
Taake had a shirt in the lat few years with anti-islam on the back. Takes some balls given the current political climate and wars in the east.


No..
It takes balls when you live among the people you declare hate of.. And not when walking your dog in the cold Northern European mountains.

taake tours all the time, if anyone wanted to start some shit with hoest he isnt exactly hard to find
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Kvisling wrote:
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absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:02 am 
 

Nope, if you're a satanist/anti-religous band you're supposed be writing anti-Islmaic, and Judaic lyrics, if you dance around them you're a pussy imo.

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The Prophet Muhammad
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 87
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:38 pm 
 

bensabre wrote:
there is no diffrence betwin NSBM and Anti-Islam when its comes from non islamic countrys.

if your not living in a islamic country(or come from a muslim background) and you are Anti-Islam. you are not hating Islam as a religion you are hating muslims as people. and that just the same as NSBM hating jews and blacks.....

That does not make any fucking sense.

NSBM is an ideology which promotes the idea that its writers possess superior genetics/upbringing/whatever. Whether or not they even choose a target is irrelevant. There are NSBM bands who dont even need to say anything bad about other races. Being anti-Islam is not a blanket term. If you are anti-Islam because you are anti-Arab, that is another story, but to suggest that everybody who is one is also the other is fucking ludicrous. What if I am just adamantly against religion and find Islam to be particularly disgusting? What if I have 3 bands, each of which dedicated to slandering each abrahamic religion separately? Is the islamic one the racist one?

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6888
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:47 pm 
 

I think to be "anti" anything is rather foolhardy and a waste of time.

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The Prophet Muhammad
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 87
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:58 am 
 

Well you might as well stop listening to metal, then.

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6888
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:18 am 
 

The Prophet Muhammad wrote:
Well you might as well stop listening to metal, then.


Why? I don't listen to music for any message. I listen for pleasure. I like Viking metal in particular because it celebrates and focuses on Nordic culture and mythology..while sounding good musically.

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The Prophet Muhammad
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 87
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:45 am 
 

Well that certainly sounds like "listening for a message", but who am I to say..

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bensabre
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:32 am 
 

@The Prophet Muhammad

Maybe i genrelaized to much.
But the way i see it. If i wrote about against any religion it would be judism because i live in israel,that the religion that has the bigest effect on me and that the religion that i actually have clue about.

And when someone don't have the knowlege about islam, never actually been effected by islam and still write Anti-Isalm BM i would think it is more likely to come from his hate muslims. Then from his hate to a religion he has nothing to do with.

but there are always exceptions..

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6888
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:38 am 
 

The Prophet Muhammad wrote:
Well that certainly sounds like "listening for a message", but who am I to say..


That's not a message, that's lyrical description and musical scenery. And at any rate it certainly isn't an "anti" this or that.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:25 am 
 

bensabre wrote:
And when someone doesn't have the knowlege about Islam, never actually been affected by Islam and still writes anti-Isalm BM i would think it is more likely to come from his hate for muslims than from his hate for a religion he has nothing to do with.

This.
Half-truths perpetuated by media and crowd are no excuse for failing to be properly informed.
_________________
Celtic Frosted Flakes wrote:
Compared to how it is here in Sweden, fascism sounds like paradise.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

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The Prophet Muhammad
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 87
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:19 am 
 

Because clearly, most anti-Christian metal bands are banking on a mountain of religious knowledge.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 951
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:04 am 
 

bensabre wrote:
@The Prophet Muhammad

Maybe i genrelaized to much.
But the way i see it. If i wrote about against any religion it would be judism because i live in israel,that the religion that has the bigest effect on me and that the religion that i actually have clue about.

And when someone don't have the knowlege about islam, never actually been effected by islam and still write Anti-Isalm BM i would think it is more likely to come from his hate muslims. Then from his hate to a religion he has nothing to do with.

but there are always exceptions..


No offense, and I hate to start this topic up again, but there are a LOT of Muslims in places like Canada, United States, Australia. And there have been moves made in each of these countries to in someway appease these people. (There have also been moves against allowing them to circumvent already established culture, I won't argue that.) So really, they do have at least a base knowledge of Islam as a religion. I mean, I personally have lots of experience with friends that were Muslims. And honestly, it's largely true that a practitioner of Islam is probably much more likely to take offense to criticism of it than the average Christian. All I'm trying to say is, as I personally abhor religion in general and Islam is no different (and whoever said Islam has been historically a less violent religion than Christianity is full of shit), it does affect us here in certain ways. And denying that is like denying that Mormons are part of a delusional cult.
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My last.fm:
http://www.last.fm/user/OurFatherChaos

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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satanscurse
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:03 am
Posts: 115
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:28 am 
 

Here's the link to that very relevant Metal Attorney article from the other Metal vs. Islam thread:

http://fullmetalattorney.blogspot.dk/20 ... islam.html

Btw. of course anti-islam metal is no closer to NSBM than anti-christian metal is.

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Eh_Timeghoul
Be gentle, I was... Born This Way

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:28 am 
 

same in the fact they're both spawn from heavy metal ignorance, different in that one is an aged ignorance (nazis) and one is a 'relevant' ignorance (anti-islam), about shock.

i mean, c'mon, metal's been going for 40+ years and you're telling me i'm supposed to believe one specific group is shittier than any other, especially when bands abode(?) preach otherwise from every which angle across the globe now? pff, i mean don't get me wrong-i love a lot of the classics, a good chunk of which have a nice bite at christianity in particular but give me a fuckin break, it's 2012.....go outside, watch the news, read a book....they all suck. religion. race. creed. whatever way that particular bunch of assholes grouped together

bleh, too bad it won't be realized until too late

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Megadeth
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 474
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:39 am 
 

Many bands has been anti-Islamic for ages, as many has shifted from anti-Christian to anti-religious. Whether or not they are similar to NSBM would depend on the bands. Many of the anti-islamic bloggers and social media users are definitely very similar, even if the methods and agenda has shifted towards a more intellectual attack on Islam, because dressing nice and communicating comprehensible and citing sources is more effective if one wants to be taken serious than calling Oprah a monkey. It doesn't matter if they are right or not, just acting serious will lead them to be taken serious.

inhumanist wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Hitler believed that Islam was far better suited to his third Reich, as a tool to control the masses

Riiiiight... o_O
May I ask where you got that information?

Islam has never really been united under a single leader, except Muhammad for a very short period (which can't really count), as opposed to the Christian faith which has been under a strict hierarchy in a church with massive power. I don't see how Islam would be better than Christianity, and especially Catholicism, as a tool to control the masses.

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CrypticMonk
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:44 am 
 

I haven't read this whole thing, but let me say that speaking against Islam IS controverisal. Those fuckers go and massacre their own people just when some dumbass posts a youtube video. Christians don't do shit. You can say all you want about how stupid Jesus is and no one gives a fuck, but if you say anything against Mohammed (even in America/European countries)...

Anti-Christianity was cool in the 80s, but now no cares honestly. Black metal is meant to be controversial. Whether it's anti-Christianity, anti-Islam, anti-homosexuality...it's got to make people feel uncomfortable, even the people who listen to it.
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Black metal is the forest calling..."
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MARSDUDE
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
Posts: 1664
Location: Canardia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:20 pm 
 

...

Have you forgotten... Never mind...

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toxikwalts
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:55 am
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:31 pm 
 

No way, not at all. People need to quit equating hatred of a religion with racism.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:58 pm 
 

CrypticMonk wrote:
Those fuckers go and massacre their own people just when some dumbass posts a youtube video.

What are you trying to say? Correlation does not imply causation and that causal line doesn't exist in the real world. Stop watching Fox News man.

Has anyone even considered that decade long conflict maybe changes people more than their specific religion?
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Celtic Frosted Flakes wrote:
Compared to how it is here in Sweden, fascism sounds like paradise.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

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TikrasTamsusNaktis
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:21 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:38 pm 
 

Read he book londonistan and you will see that there are far more radical uslamism than u might think. And this book contains points and proofs so you could say it is a reliable source for info on this subject

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StalUlv
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:42 pm
Posts: 28
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:48 pm 
 

It's all about shock value people. I bet some of these "anti-Islam" artists thinks its funny to do. They may also really have something against the religion. Nonetheless, I'm willing to guess that some amount of shock is to be gained from this. I wouldn't say it's the same as NSBM, but similar.

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Indecency
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 503
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:43 pm 
 

MetalArmy666 wrote:
You must have no idea of what's going on in the world. Metal is one of the most popular genres of music throughout the globe. Almost every country has at least one notable band and some sort of scene going on there. Look at this website for instance, there is a massive group of people here from all countries who love metal. There is an archive here of bands from every country in the world. Metal is VERY widespread and not just popular in the western countries.


I'm late, but I'll post.

No idea what's going on the world? Hah. Do you even know what popular means? Yes, there is metal from every corner of the globe. Does not mean it's popular. I don't know where metal is the most popular but I'm sure you'd agree Canada and US are pretty up there, yes? Metal is not even close to being a majority genre. Just because there are tons of bands and just because the fans take their music seriously, doesn't mean there's a lot of them. It's widespread, sure, but doesn't make it popular.

MetalArmy666 wrote:
Also stating that Islam is not big in the west is completely incorrect. Islam is the religion with the second most people following it on the planet. It is also the fastest growing religion on the planet. In the US, it is the #3 most practiced religion and will soon be #2 behind Christianity. Muslims are not just confined to the Middle East...


See, now this part actually made me laugh. Don't even begin to start listing facts to a muslim living in a western country. Islam is NOT big in the west. I follow Islam and I know lots who do. We are a minority. Yes, Islam is the second largest religion in the world behind Christianity. But it's not big in the west. It still exists in noticeable amounts but it's still not big. Not only that, but the Islam sentiment in the west is not very great, making it even worse. Whatever you think you know about the community, just remember: I AM a part of that community.

MetalArmy666 wrote:
Give it a rest and it will go away.


See, your advice here is good. The thing is, anti-Islam metal has virtually no part in my life. So I don't even have to try to avoid it. What I do have to put up with though are threads like these. One little trend pops up and then everyone acts like it's the next biggest thing. It's not big, evidenced by the fact that I haven't come across it, yet I hear about it monthly because people act like it's big.

MetalArmy666 wrote:
I think you are missing the point that this scene isn't just in the Middle East. One of the biggest bands in this "scene" is from your country (Canada). And actually, yes, the media is reporting on this rising trend - which is why it was posted here for discussion.


I know there are Canadian middle eastern bands, and if my knowledge of the scene serves me correct, I believe you are talking about Aeternam. However, the ethnicity of the band (actually, only one guy is from the middle east) and the sound of the band is still irrelevant to religion in music that's being discussed.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 951
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:02 pm 
 

I hate to rain down on your parade there, bud. But in fact, metal IS pretty popular here in Canada. There are a lot of metalheads. The problem is lack of centralization. You won't find a specifically metal bar in Edmonton, but you can sure find a specifically Blues bar in Edmonton. And it's people like you that are the reason for that. People don't think they can sell a bar like that, when in fact, it could be very, very successful.
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http://www.last.fm/user/OurFatherChaos

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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Megadeth
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 474
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:08 pm 
 

StalUlv wrote:
It's all about shock value people. I bet some of these "anti-Islam" artists thinks its funny to do. They may also really have something against the religion. Nonetheless, I'm willing to guess that some amount of shock is to be gained from this. I wouldn't say it's the same as NSBM, but similar.

I think most mean it, even if they exaggerate. Look at Twitter when there is a story in the media and you will see it get flooded with hate. The comment sections of news/blog articles also tend to be filled. It is fairly extreme stuff, and many click like on it, so it's not just a few people. And why don't you believe NSBM bands don't want to shock? I think there are much more bands labeled "NSBM" that do it just for the shock.

I have even seen a mainstream black metal musician, Stian Arnesen (Nagash from Troll, The Kovenant and Dimmu Borgir), pop up in the news comments writing anti-Islamic hate. It's not just a show, and it's not just a teenage rebellion thing. They will of course not stand by their lyrics literally, but their message is certainly authentic.

My impression is that there is even more anti-Islamic hate in Norway after the terrorist attack July 22 2011, than there was before; probably because people are more aware of it and looks up the hateful blogs etc. online, and spread their rhetoric, and gets much more easily angered. A popular Norwegian anti-Islamic site went from blaming Muslims for the attack on July 22, to blaming the government for the attack the day after (when they realized it was done by "one of their own"), because the government hadn't dealt with "the muslim problem". Breivik wasn't to blame, it was the government for "making Breivik have to do what he did", and a huge number of people share that view.

Another example is how popular conspiracy theories are. How many believed Obama wasn't born in USA, or is secretly a Muslim? How many believed September 11 was an inside job? How many believe JFK was assassinated by CIA? How many believe the governments covers up or fakes this or that? Those believing that a Muslim takeover of Europe is a continental leftist conspiracy is just a small fraction of the haters, yet even that view has a fairly large following.

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The Prophet Muhammad
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 87
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:13 am 
 

I write about Islam because I do not feel that it should be exempt from criticism. I do not believe in censorship of any form, I despise misogyny, religious zealotry, proselytizing, dress codes, dietary restrictions, and any other form of human control. Religion may arguably have had a purpose hundreds of years ago when there was no other way to understand some of the more complex inner-workings of this world. It is a divisive political system used to control primitive human beings that is already being phased out as its moral-teachings and credibility spiral further and further into the abyss.

The fact that Islam steps on more of my morals and beliefs than the other two Abrahamic religions is a fortunate coincidence. It makes it infinitely more enjoyable to mock their ridiculous doctrines, knowing that so much as an exemption of (PBUH) after the lowly prophet's name is enough to have my head cut off. I enjoy crossing the line, and attempt to do so to the furthest extent possible. I would be writing about it anyway, because nobody else has done it to a satisfactory level (in my mind), and there is nothing groundbreaking about 100,000 more black metal albums picking on Christians or Jews. Christians do not even bat an eyelash to the constant berating and blaspheming they receive from metal bands, and that is the way it should be. Why should Islam escape unscathed? The filthiest of them all..

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