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Jiikky
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:11 am
Posts: 11
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:05 pm 
 

HOORAY! He's out of business (partly at least, they still have their www.discogs.com user and their own website www.azintex-music.com. On the other hand, what does this mean to me? Does this mean I can't return the CDs anymore? Does this mean I have no protection anymore and he won't refund me after I send the CDs (I haven't sent them yet)?

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Jiikky
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:11 am
Posts: 11
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:25 pm 
 

Wait, I figured it out. The motherfucker is just changing his name so that the customers who wanted their money back won't get them since they won't have amazon as their guardian anymore! Soon he will probably have another user in amazon and there's not shit I can do about it.

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nhh
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:46 pm
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:07 am 
 

.


Last edited by nhh on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daemonlord
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 7:01 pm
Posts: 637
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:40 am 
 

Jiikky wrote:
Wait, I figured it out. The motherfucker is just changing his name so that the customers who wanted their money back won't get them since they won't have amazon as their guardian anymore! Soon he will probably have another user in amazon and there's not shit I can do about it.


It doesn't matter if he's changed his name, it's still in your order history. If you've ordered it and it's a bootleg, you're covered by Amazon's A-Z claims.
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StratGuy888
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:39 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:00 am 
 

...and people complain about downloaders.

If the record companies invested in technology that made CD copying impossible then there would ONLY be legit copies for sale, therefore consumers could buy with confidence.

Of course the scamming bastards would pass the costs onto the consumer and a CD would be far more overpriced than it already is.

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orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2463
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:05 pm 
 

StratGuy888 wrote:
If the record companies invested in technology that made CD copying impossible then there would ONLY be legit copies for sale, therefore consumers could buy with confidence.


Not true. Audio will always be able to be copied. It's as simple as playing a cd into a recording program and then using that as your source. There is no way to prevent people from bootlegging. All you can do is protect yourself by being extremely careful when buying and exposing the bootleg scum when you discover them out.
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StratGuy888
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:39 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:15 pm 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
StratGuy888 wrote:
If the record companies invested in technology that made CD copying impossible then there would ONLY be legit copies for sale, therefore consumers could buy with confidence.


Not true. Audio will always be able to be copied. It's as simple as playing a cd into a recording program and then using that as your source. There is no way to prevent people from bootlegging. All you can do is protect yourself by being extremely careful when buying and exposing the bootleg scum when you discover them out.


Wrong.

Anything's possible given enough time and money.....

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DestruicaoMetalica
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:54 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:52 pm 
 

Not sure if this has been posted, but I'd just like to say that Blasterplan on eBay looks to be selling all Russian fakes. I've watched his CDs before, and they're either legit russian presses (The newest Amon Amarth on Fono Records) or obvious boots similar to ones I've gotten in the past. I got a bootleg of Running Wild's Blazon Stone and Port Royal a while ago from Speedyk (A user on here, I was stupid to think I was actually getting real copies considering the easy to find stuff I was trading) and Blasterplan is selling Blazon Stone (Which looks like an original, not a re issue) for $10, way too little for that album.
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Jiikky
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:11 am
Posts: 11
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:53 pm 
 

I just found out that the seller hasn't been removed from amazon, only his products are gone. Should I still send these CDs back to him?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:03 pm 
 

Jiikky wrote:
I just found out that the seller hasn't been removed from amazon, only his products are gone. Should I still send these CDs back to him?

when i got sold fake counterfeit cds and returned them in good faith for a refund guess what happened?
correct, the seller claimed they didn't arrive, i had to take him to court to get my money back even though i sent them via tracked courier [this is domestic]
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BreedingtheSpawn
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:02 pm
Posts: 878
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:02 pm 
 

That is why on Amazon I am cautious of where I buy CDs from. I have contacted many sellers on their before and asked for the barcode on the back to clarify on discogs, they come up with the excuse I don't have the product on hand so I don't know what it is.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1568
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:23 pm 
 

StratGuy888 wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
Not true. Audio will always be able to be copied. It's as simple as playing a cd into a recording program and then using that as your source. There is no way to prevent people from bootlegging. All you can do is protect yourself by being extremely careful when buying and exposing the bootleg scum when you discover them out.


Wrong.

Anything's possible given enough time and money.....


Dude, did you even read what orion wrote?
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BreedingtheSpawn
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:02 pm
Posts: 878
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:32 pm 
 

This seller right here: saturn_cd on Ebay seems be selling Russian bootlegs. CD's made by Mazzar LLC.

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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:39 pm 
 

bootlegs... I can tell you all night about this topic. Azintex music is the worst. He's selling on discogs, ebay, amazon, everywhere.
There are others on ebay (mostly from ex-soviet countries, like ukraine or belarus etc).
Luckily-luckily also sells fake shit (the latest victim is the 2on1 Assassin JapCD: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123 )
:(
They bootlegged almost every rare thrash and death metal album, like it was mentioned before (atom-h, noise, drowned/thrash records releases etc), and they are quasi identical to the original pressings.
Only the quality of the paper and printing will help you to judge over it. The booklet is always on thin paper, smells from ink, no signs of use, no scratches on the disc, the logos on the disc are usually blurry or rastered... shitty quality imitations.
Like this Dark Angel logo on the jap' press of their Darkness Descends : http://n1.vatera.hu/photos/ce/bd/5106_4_big.jpg
As a reference for bootlegs, check the azintex page on discogs anyime: http://www.discogs.com/seller/azintex-m ... yle=Thrash
I bought some bootlegs myself recently, like Exumer, Protector, Coroner etc etc... the matrix are consists the same characters, but the font type is different.
See my bootleg pyracanda: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-P2-2ZYdCOz0/T ... matrix.jpg
Also in some of the cases, the original disc has different type of those shiny silver rings, and the bootlegs has not. But not always easy to spot the difference. And the bootleg sellers are sharing low-res photos or trying to cheat you with other tricks, so basically you'll be able to tell you are screwed when the CD is in your hands. Sometimes the colors are not matching, like brown printing on the disc instead of black (Grinder CDs), sometimes one single letter typo error in the outer ring notes of the disc (Target CD's proibited instead of prohibited), the list would be too long now....
Check this page and you'll have nightmares: http://www.metal-treasures.com/2011/04/bootleg-pictures.html

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:56 pm 
 

http://www.metal-treasures.com/2011/04/bootleg-pictures.html
horrifying stuff, bootleggers need stringing up :grr:

i don't own this, but the top one is the fake, the font is wrong, correct?
emperor_zola wrote:
See my bootleg pyracanda:
Spoiler: show
Image
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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:00 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
http://www.metal-treasures.com/2011/04/bootleg-pictures.html
horrifying stuff, bootleggers need stringing up :grr:

i don't own this, but the top one is the fake, the font is wrong, correct?
emperor_zola wrote:
See my bootleg pyracanda:
Spoiler: show
Image


Yes, the top one is the bootleg... but if you asking for the matrix to make sure that it's not just the album title or whatever, you'll have a big bad surprise.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5095
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:03 pm 
 

emperor_zola wrote:
bootlegs... I can tell you all night about this topic. Azintex music is the worst. He's selling on discogs, ebay, amazon, everywhere.
There are others on ebay (mostly from ex-soviet countries, like ukraine or belarus etc).
Luckily-luckily also sells fake shit (the latest victim is the 2on1 Assassin JapCD: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123 )
:(
They bootlegged almost every rare thrash and death metal album, like it was mentioned before (atom-h, noise, drowned/thrash records releases etc), and they are quasi identical to the original pressings.
Only the quality of the paper and printing will help you to judge over it. The booklet is always on thin paper, smells from ink, no signs of use, no scratches on the disc, the logos on the disc are usually blurry or rastered... shitty quality imitations.
Like this Dark Angel logo on the jap' press of their Darkness Descends : http://n1.vatera.hu/photos/ce/bd/5106_4_big.jpg
As a reference for bootlegs, check the azintex page on discogs anyime: http://www.discogs.com/seller/azintex-m ... yle=Thrash
I bought some bootlegs myself recently, like Exumer, Protector, Coroner etc etc... the matrix are consists the same characters, but the font type is different.
See my bootleg pyracanda: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-P2-2ZYdCOz0/T ... matrix.jpg
Also in some of the cases, the original disc has different type of those shiny silver rings, and the bootlegs has not. But not always easy to spot the difference. And the bootleg sellers are sharing low-res photos or trying to cheat you with other tricks, so basically you'll be able to tell you are screwed when the CD is in your hands. Sometimes the colors are not matching, like brown printing on the disc instead of black (Grinder CDs), sometimes one single letter typo error in the outer ring notes of the disc (Target CD's proibited instead of prohibited), the list would be too long now....
Check this page and you'll have nightmares: http://www.metal-treasures.com/2011/04/bootleg-pictures.html

This post should be immortalized, so much good info here! That Azyntex guy's page on Discogs is ridiculous, I mean that first page alone at those prices... One has to be blind to get burned by such an evident bootlegger.

dreadmeat wrote:
i don't own this, but the top one is the fake, the font is wrong, correct?

Yup!
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:12 pm 
 

i just emailed admin there to make a contribution, vengeance rising isn't there.
i'm actually surprised they can copy matrix info like that, even if the font is wrong, the discs have been mastered properly too: consistent silver.

i wonder if my majesty and decay cd from the ukraine really is a bootleg now... :???:
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:41 pm 
 

what do you guys think? does anyone else have this album handy to check?

[click for much larger image]
Image Image
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cvac
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:36 pm
Posts: 61
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:30 pm 
 

Thanks to whomever started this thread. Unfortunately, I fell for eBay auctions from both "blasterplan" and "luckily-luckily" before finding it and reading it. For the former, the Dark Angel "darkness descends" CD was an obvious bootleg. The tray card didn't even match what was on the disc...it was a frankenstein bootleg made up of CD data from an 80s pressing with tray card info from a late 90s reissue...really weird. I never got the Coroner cds from luckily-luckily because I demanded a refund before he shipped them. Both are still in business on eBay even though I tried to report them for selling bootlegs. eBay just doesn't seem to care.

Now, here is another potential bootleg problem. Is anyone aware of bootlegs of Gorguts "obscura"? I ordered a CD from an Amazon seller called "best_music_service" about 3 weeks ago. CD arrived yesterday.

See here:

http://www.amazon.com/shops/A2MCWMG3LHZFTN

No return address on the package!


The seller ships out of the UK and I strongly suspect the CD I got to be a bootleg. Not only because finding a sealed copy of this CD is incredibly unlikely, but the shrinkwrap on the CD just looked suspect. It was doubled up on one area and was a bit thicker than what you get on most sealed CDs. No bar code sticky thingy across the top of the case either (under the shrinkwrap), and these were pretty common among CD released in the mid to late 90s from what I remember. Plus, the CD case itself looks weird - it has a clear try and just feels off/cheap. Looked at the CD playing surface - there is a matrix code and ifpi code but I know those can be copied. Anyone able to help me out here an post a pic of a bonafide original CD matrix? Much appreciated.

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:58 pm 
 

we have an official thread for this now mate, see my signature.
also check out the good/bad trader thread and add any usernames and emails etc to it.
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onthedunes
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:50 am
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:54 am 
 

Does it look like "thetuneofUK" is selling as "heavy_metal_haven"?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main/ref ... TM2ZEHP5Y4

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uuubjuuu
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 4
Location: Lithuania
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:40 am 
 

Daemonlord wrote:
Jiikky wrote:

Greece is definitely being overtaken by Russia/Baltic States for the bootleg capital of the world!


actually Baltic states have nothing common with this at all. Being shithead and accusing everyone without reason ins't the best

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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:14 am 
 

uuubjuuu wrote:
actually Baltic states have nothing common with this at all. Being shithead and accusing everyone without reason ins't the best

You're wrong. It's not prejudice, it's a conclusion of the experience we had. The source of the bootlegs that flooding the market are located in Russia/Ukraine somewhere. But the known sellers whom helping to spread this shit are all came from that area of the world: Russia, Ukraine, Belorussia, Lithuania, and so on.

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uuubjuuu
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 4
Location: Lithuania
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:52 am 
 

emperor_zola wrote:
uuubjuuu wrote:
actually Baltic states have nothing common with this at all. Being shithead and accusing everyone without reason ins't the best

You're wrong. It's not prejudice, it's a conclusion of the experience we had. The source of the bootlegs that flooding the market are located in Russia/Ukraine somewhere. But the known sellers whom helping to spread this shit are all came from that area of the world: Russia, Ukraine, Belorussia, Lithuania, and so on.

Deeeeng, you're wrong. The licenced Cds we discuss about are made in Russia exceptionally by permission of record companies to lower the piracy. And it's a good move knowing the situation with the living wage (standards) in 3rd class countries. Don't hang noodles, kid, I know what I'm talking about. I'm pretty much a metal Cds collector myself for years overpaying for every rarity or single CD 3-4 times more than you. And earn 3-4 less than normal person in Western Europe or West America within a month. CDs from Azintex - is a common problem we've faced this year, and saying that other countries are spreading this shit is a real nasty thing. I can give you a link to the only store in Lithuania who sells licenced CDs here:
http://www.ledotakas.net/webshop/
please take your time and find me any crap from Azintex in this store, and I will give you noodle medal as a price for watchfulness. Otherwise fuck off prick for any accusation to my side
Now, as the state with the licenced Cds are clear, let's talk about Azintex once more. I've been fooled up 3 times during the summer buying some stuff. I can name few sellers in ebay who sell such stuff - a_thrashman_a, geleney. There was another guy selling his 'private collection' of fine 1st presses, later after few weeks he cancelled his membership in ebay. Yeah, I took his bait and ended up with 2 Agressor and 2 Accuser albums in my hands. The biggest surprise was the tray inlay of every Cd that didn't have any mark of being placed in regular CD case. After 30 years? It became suspicious. With a_thrashman_a - same story. I think Airdash 3rd album for 6$ was a normal bidding price knowing that it was the worst LP they made. Few weeks later I was holding this album and what did I see? The booklet was of 2 pages only with lyrics though the original should be the fold-out booklet with 6 pages. And I'm aware of piracy in Greece too. Had an insult after knowing that three swedish Hexenhaus albums I bought from Greeke guy through ebay 4 years ago are fake that costed me a fortune.

In this topic we discuss about rare albums of 80s, but please check the e-store they have. All decent albums are spread through internet with success, why they should worry themselves with subdivisions in other countries?
I'm not happy about too, so please, don't type nonsense


Last edited by uuubjuuu on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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uuubjuuu
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 4
Location: Lithuania
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:00 am 
 

BTW I don't know why the Baltic States are still listed on licenced Cds though we're independent from former USSR more than 20 years.

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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:11 am 
 

Cool down before you got banned, >dude<, m'kay?
So you are saying because there is a shop over there and they don't sell bootlegs, therefor there are no bootlegs flooding the market from that country at all? (I used to buy from that shop myself just to let you know).
You said what you wanted.
The majority of us still refuse to buy out of print CDs from there. I hope you understand. And please don't whine about differences of income, wages, and whatnot. Wrong place.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5095
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:24 am 
 

If I might budge in for a second and answer uuubjuuu then I'll give my two cents.

There's a difference between saying "every Eastern European is a bootlegger" and "many bootlegs come from Eastern Europe", and what we've been saying over here is actually the second one so there's no need to feel attacked. We also dispelled some doubts about Eastern European and South American licensed editions, the ones you mention and are indeed real. We have constantly told inquiring members that some stuff is just licensed for those countries while others are plain boot, and to be weary of the differences between them.

With that being said there's no way on hell that you'll find me buying any thrash album from a Greek, Russian or whatever seller. Reason being that those are the main sources of thrash album's boots. Simple as that! If there are many boots coming from there the percentage of actually getting one is much higher wouldn't you agree? It's just that.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:45 pm 
 

my bestial warlust - vengeance war till death cd came from ledotakas by way of discogs
he's been mentioned around here before a couple of times from memory
if he was selling bootlegs on disogs he'd have been sprung ages ago, he has virtually 100% + feedback
http://www.discogs.com/sell/seller_feedback/ledotakas :thumbsup:

uuubjuuu wrote:
Don't hang noodles, kid, I know what I'm talking about.
uuubjuuu wrote:
I will give you noodle medal as a price for watchfulness
:grin:
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snopale
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:18 am
Posts: 122
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:23 pm 
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151056896198?ss ... 882wt_2673

IS IT REAL OR BOOTLEG THIS DEBUT CD OF BURZUM?

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

From China?! I wouldn't touch it myself...

CD Identification, Matrix & Bootleg Help Thread
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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:38 pm 
 

I bought from this seller, he's not a fraud. He buys his stuff from European sellers, and the re-selling it for extra profit. This CD can be a bootleg though... I'm not a burzum professionalist.

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PurpleDoom
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:39 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:19 pm 
 

Looking at the images from Discogs and comparing it to the pictures provided by the seller shows a discrepancy in the matrix numbers of the two:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=413444

The seller's copy doesn't have the "DURECO [1]" preceding the catalog number, and there's also a space in "ANTIMOSH" where it should be one word.

I wouldn't go for it, if I were you.

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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:21 pm 
 

brilliant work here!

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5095
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:51 pm 
 

Yeah, that matrix is obvious a fake. Stay away!
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 5828
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:52 pm 
 

Seller reported?
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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 1806
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:02 pm 
 

Somewhat related: Are there more bootlegging going on on Amazon then on Ebay?

Rule of thumb; if it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
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AppleQueso
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:02 am
Posts: 2528
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:52 pm 
 

StratGuy888 wrote:
Wrong.

Anything's possible given enough time and money.....

The only way they could make a CD 100 percent impossible to copy would be to make it impossible to actually listen to.

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DeathfareDevil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:30 am
Posts: 567
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:51 am 
 

AppleQueso wrote:
The only way they could make a CD 100 percent impossible to copy would be to make it impossible to actually listen to.


Metallica's anti-piracy strategy has been even more comprehensive than I'd realized.

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snopale
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:18 am
Posts: 122
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:22 am 
 

Many thanx for your info comrades in darkness!

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