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~Guest 285196
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 2187
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:46 pm 
 

So, Mayhem just released a remix/remaster of their 2nd 2000 album "Grand Declaration of War". As all fans of black metal know, this album was highly controversial, as it was in many ways a radical departure from the absolute classic "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" from 1994.

I thought this might be an opportunity to share thoughts on this album in general as well. Has it aged well? Can it stand up to their other albums? Was reviving the band a massive mistake?
The whole album is on Season of Mist's YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL01Z4XjVdE

Image

My own thoughts: I really didn't like the album when I first heard it ~10 years ago now, but since I've really warmed up to the experimental and weird side of black metal. I think this album goes along nicely with Thorns and Arcturus as a black metal project incorporating electronic music.
Blasphemer is an absolute riff master and he and Hellhammer work in sync so well, making the music complex and strange, while not being annoyingly random and directionless. Maniac's vocals are a mixed bag. The harsh vocals still sounds like a cat sneering, but the spoken dramatic passages are really cool. I think 'To Daimon' might be my favourite out of the album.

Regarding the remix, I actually like this new version better. The drums and bass are given more weight and it feels more organic and heavy. The only downside is that the alien/otherworldly atmosphere is somewhat lessened by it. It sounds more like a band playing than some alien transmission with electronic music.

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cultofkraken
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 3013
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:35 pm 
 

I bought it on vinyl (this remix/master) and I’ve always had a soft spot for this album but I’m not sure why. I think it was just such a unique offering and a left turn (although pretty in-line with what bands from Norway on Moonfog we’re doing) and I think the production definitely contributed to that. I have yet to actually listen to more than a few minutes of the new production but I definitely prefer the drum sound on this release.
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Lord_Jotun
Veteran

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 2747
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:45 pm 
 

I think the album has a fantastic concept (and the way it ties into Wolf's Lair Abyss, making that one a kind of prequel/prologue retroactively is brilliant), but the execution fell a little short of the mark. It's as if they bit a little more than they could actually chew, or weren't too sure which direction to swim after diving in at the deep end - take something like A Bloodsword and a Colder Sun: a bold experiment for a band like Mayhem, a great idea for a song at that point of the album's narrative, but the actual thing comes off as somewhat underdeveloped. None of these are fatal flaws, howveer, and while I think other experimental albums from that era were far more successful (Thorns!!!). I never saw it as the abomination many condemed it as back then.

I actually received the new version in the mail but still haven't found the time to listen to it...
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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10812
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:26 pm 
 

I only listened to parts of it so far, but I must say I really like that the drums no longer sound like someone is making popcorn.
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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1622
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:03 pm 
 

I dig this remix. The bass, in particular, is weighty and prominent, making this new remix beefy as fuck and really powerful (especially on vinyl). It sounds like a much more complete work now, as opposed to the original, which sounded like vocals over shrill guitars and synthetic drums, to me (although the album in its original form was still an enjoyable listen in a vacuum).

Reading the story in the booklet about the process of remixing this album makes it sound like complete torture, especially how the drums had to be re-produced. In fact, the description of how the drums were captured on the original recording is sort of bizarre in of itself.
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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: Ankara
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:02 pm 
 

Yeah, I could never get into this one at all

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Space_alligator
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:43 am
Posts: 714
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:37 pm 
 

Artwork is much better for a start!

Pure speculation, but even if Euro had not been killed and all assosiated drama never eventuated, Mayhem would have seen some experimental direction anyway.

Look at what DMDS crew were involved in:

Snore took Thorns into some weird territory and providef inspiration/lyrics etc for Mayhem during DMDS (don't forget his influence on Euro's playing)

Hellhammer drums/drumme for Arcturus and The Kovonant.

Atilla worked with Sunn.

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~Guest 285196
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 2187
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 am 
 

That's definitely a strong possibility. I remember listening to an interview with Attila where he said they used synth in De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas as well, but since there are several layers of guitars, it is barely noticeable. He said the only time you really hear it is the end of Funeral Fog. And Euronymous was a fan of music like Diamanda Galás and the intro for Deathcrush was by Conrad Schnitzler.

So experimenting was definitely in the cards.

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kytokinesis
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 206
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:50 am 
 

I had to pick this up. Sounds great. The bass especially sounds nice. Album artwork is definitely better. The album itself has a surprisingly well executed narrative. Better than most other metal concept albums that I've heard.

Made for a good Christmas album too.

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Raindream
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:56 pm
Posts: 311
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:26 am 
 

Checked out a little bit on the YouTubes at it sounds amazing. Will probably eventually pick up the vinyl. Always have dug Grand Declaration quite a bit.

Why does Jesus look so chill on the cover though? There’s no crucifying or disembowleing or what have you going on...and is that an upright Cross girt with a serpet on the left? The hell is going on here?!

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Ancient_Sorrow
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 2336
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:40 am 
 

Listening to the re-master just now, with a few pauses to compare to the original. I think I'll actually see it through to the end, now, as I'm impressed. There's definitely improvement in general, and especially drum sound. Musically, Grand Declaration... was in the "why would I re-listen" tier of albums for me for years, satisfied that I wasn't interested in it. Hearing it now, however, I think time has really redeemed the sound of the album, especially in light of all the places that the genre has gone since 2000. It's absolutely the right time for the band and label to remind people that it exists.

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Runko
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:38 pm
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:41 pm 
 

This is Mayhem's St. Anger. You can remaster it and fix the drum sound all you want, the songs are still shit.

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Lord_Beavereater
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:40 am
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:57 am 
 

I actually prefer the original....but I am old and nostalgic.

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emperorjvl
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:10 am
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:01 am 
 

As f'd up as it was, always loved this album since it came out. Remix sounds very clear and beefy, I think I will prefer the original just because I am used to it, but I think I can appreciate the new mix.

By the way, I think Chimera is also very good. At least the faster songs (except "Whore" -ugh) are some of my favorites.

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Sabbatic Goat
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:10 pm
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:04 am 
 

Runko wrote:
This is Mayhem's St. Anger. You can remaster it and fix the drum sound all you want, the songs are still shit.

This simply ends the discussion.

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InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 2187
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:17 am 
 

I think this is one of the best Mayhem albums and it always had a special place in my heart. Love the concept, love the feeling and some of the songs are excellent!

I do think the original mix brought something unique to the table in the coldness and sterile sound it brought forth. That's what many critique about it but I found it to be one of the aspects that made it unique in a good way. Having listened to the new remix once I think its really good as well but some of the albums personality is lost. But I can definitely understand why some prefer it. Some points are better, usually due to the more audible bass and only once do I think the new mix is clearly subpar to the original and that's A Bloodsword And A Colder Sun, Pt 2.

Its one of those albums that actually brings something different with its re-release and for that alone I think its interesting. I'd rather have bands dabble with remixes rather than just re-release boring remasters.
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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 7631
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:26 am 
 

it's fantastic and it's about time mayhem's best has a proper master job. bought it the day it was released and listened a dozen times or so. easily their darkest, strangest, and most evil album.
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DecemberSoul
Mirties Metafora

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1399
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:41 pm 
 

Siding with those who prefer the sterile, mechanical production of the original. This has of course a lot to do with the phenomenon of first impressions being more impactful and longer lasting than the recent listen of the re-mix.
I dislike the changed drum sound quite strongly, it seems unhealthily compressed and blurred to the point of the snare being shamefully drowned in that sonic goo. Maybe it's just youtube marring the qualities of this re-mix.
To me, the original is just fine, and that statement includes the original cover art too. This new version, on the other hand, removes GDOW's peculiar aura and degrades it to a far more mediocre album for which I'd feel little want to replay, let alone own. At least the great riffs are still audible, and they do deliver still.
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DeathFog
Temporally-Displaced Fossil

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:20 am
Posts: 582
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:09 am 
 

I downloaded the full album yesterday. Today I have finally found some time to listen to it. Some impressions :

* From a purely technical standpoint the sound is more balanced : fuller low end, audible bass, softer high end. In the original version cymbals exhibited audible compression artefacts.
* Considering that the original production had a clear effect on the general atmosphere of the album it is hard to tell if a more balanced sound is an improvement.

I think it is the first mainstream "remaster / remix" than actually ended up sounding more dynamic. For the fun of it, I put both versions side by side into Foobar2000 and ran a dynamic range analysing plug-in. Surprisingly enough, the new version is less compressed. All in all I would rather listen to the 2018 version. I will check my local store and see if I can order it.
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HaPoStaPu
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
Posts: 183
Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:53 am 
 

I actually like the original cover, as unoriginal as it is, better than this Jesus rubbing his chest with a dove one.

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Grimbeard
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:09 pm
Posts: 179
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 pm 
 

Put me down for the original album as well.

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BasqueStorm
The Wettest Blanket

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 4793
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:39 am 
 

DeathFog wrote:
I downloaded the full album yesterday. Today I have finally found some time to listen to it. Some impressions :
* From a purely technical standpoint the sound is more balanced : fuller low end, audible bass, softer high end. In the original version cymbals exhibited audible compression artefacts.
* Considering that the original production had a clear effect on the general atmosphere of the album it is hard to tell if a more balanced sound is an improvement.
I think it is the first mainstream "remaster / remix" than actually ended up sounding more dynamic. For the fun of it, I put both versions side by side into Foobar2000 and ran a dynamic range analysing plug-in. Surprisingly enough, the new version is less compressed. All in all I would rather listen to the 2018 version. I will check my local store and see if I can order it.

Thanks! :beer:

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