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Jackoroth
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:55 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:59 am 
 

Hey guys,

So this has been on my mind for a while and I'm sure on a few others as well but most Cryptopsy fans know that None So Vile and Blasphemy Made Flesh really being the pinnacle of this band.

I remember the backlash they really got once Lord Worm had left and Mike DiSalvo stepped in.
It was always quite clear that Worm was really the driving force here and in my opinion but to a lesser extent Martin Fergusson who did some really sweet bass plucking on NSV.

What I always found a bit odd though was that Matt McGachy filling the vocal shoes from the last two and there was slight backlash to it because once again Worm had left and we were back to replacements but it'd seem as a consensus that we've become desensitized to McGachy now.

I've noticed this especially with the band coming here to Australia and being quite talked about as of late, even the original haters of anything that wasn't Worm.

So my question is, we've all got Worm in our heads as the best era of the band, sure but when did we accept McGachy and what he brings to the band?

Are there any post Worm moments that you'd like to talk about, that are of interest to you or have you written them off as a band since?
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:21 am 
 

I think most people into technical death metal are into the instruments a lot more than the vocals. That their albums after None So Vile were shit certainly wasn't because of the vocals - of course they were pretty terrible but nonetheless the smallest complaint when faced with the godawful music behind them.

That people warm up to them with the new guy has a lot less to do with him as well, but with the instruments trying to kind of sound like Cryptopsy again. If the music at least sounds like death metal and not like brutal skater music people can stomach that the guy from The Unspoken King is still on vocals, 'cause you don't pay attention to the guy at the microphone so much when you can headbang undisturbed by hardcore dancing.
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Lagartija
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:12 am 
 

Lord Worm is actually the only thing that turns me off about the first two albums, I would prefer them if the current guy sang on them.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:18 am 
 

I think the vocals are perfect. I think if they had left out the thankfully rare lead guitars (especially the cringy At the Gates sounding ones in songs like "Phobophile") they'd have made two near-perfect albums.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:41 am 
 

I actually prefer DiSalvo's vocal style, that shrewd bark delivery, for two major reasons. One being that the more staccato delivery added another chaotic element to the music, which was technical more from riff construction and timing than it was from "look how fast I can sweep," and the other being that my introduction to the band was a few tracks off ...And Then You'll Beg. I'll openly admit that his delivery is far from perfect ("Soar and Envision Sore Vision" is bland anyway, but DiSalvo adds nothing to it), though.
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BrutalizerUtilizerOfTheShadows
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:18 am 
 

I saw them a while back with Cannibal Corpse and Obituary and they were great. I even picked up their E.P. that had just come out and it was quite enjoyable. As was stated already in this thread, they have returned to form on recent albums and the new material is very reminiscent of the None so Vile years.

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Indecency
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm
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Location: Edmonton, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:44 am 
 

I think their newest stuff is their best stuff. I hated Lord Worm's vocals. To be fair though, I didn't get into them until their self titled and I'm much more a fan of newer more modern tech death than the old school stuff.

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lost_wanderer
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 4:59 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:47 am 
 

Lord Worm was on Once was not, and from what I remember, it was not a really good album

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Church13
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:26 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:19 pm 
 

Well to answer your question, I read Cryptopsy in the title of this thread and got excited at the thought that a new Ep was coming. The Book of Suffering was great, I just hope they follow their one EP per year plan for it that they laid out

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ThePoop
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:27 pm 
 

I might have agreed with the premise of this thread a year ago, but I have enjoyed The Book of Suffering more than any of their stuff since NSV. I think McGachy has done a tremendously surprising job at proving he can handle the job. I completely wrote him (and the band) off after TUK, but the guy certainly has shown he's fit to lead a true death metal band. So while nothing will touch Lord Worm's vocals and his era of Cryptopsy, I can't say they're worthless without him.
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:05 pm 
 

Thread logical fallacy 1: Whisper Supremacy is the best Cryptopsy album and Lord Worm is not the vocalist on this album.

Thread logical fallacy 2: Lorn Worm was the vocalist on Once Was Not and that album is an unmitigated mess, totally unlistenable, and is easily one of Cryptopsy's worst albums. So there is an element of worthlessness even when Lord Worm was fronting this band.

And the laughable "only obscure bassists from the first album are real!" hipsterism about Martin Fergusson being a driving force (especially on an album he did not even play on as cited by the OP)-give me a break. It's known, documented, and understood that Levasseur was the driving force on this band's early material.

If anything, Cryptopsy is worthless without Jon Levassuer, but even that's arguable.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:18 pm 
 

No I pretty much agree with wo Jon. I like all cryptopsy aside from the turd king album. Everything else has been solid and very enjoyable to me. Blasphemy Made Flesh is my favorite overall. Lord Worm is my favorite overall. But I have no problem with the other two vocalists. if I'd to rank the albums:
Blasphemy, None, Whisper, Once, And then you'll beg, ST. and i like the 3 other new songs on the comp cd they released after the ST. don't rank king turd.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:24 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
I think most people into technical death metal are into the instruments a lot more than the vocals. That their albums after None So Vile were shit certainly wasn't because of the vocals - of course they were pretty terrible but nonetheless the smallest complaint when faced with the godawful music behind them.


That. I'm surprised that anyone would think that Lord Worm's departure was the pivotal point in Cryptopsy's career... The fact that they switched from one of the most abbrasive, technically amazing and brutal style of tech death to play a more generic, not completely terrible though, style of death metal... had far more impact than Lord Worm's departure. Sure he's a popular frontman, and in a way... he kind of is the face of that big sound change, regardless of how little he had to do with it... and that's just because he left as they drastically changed their sound. Even when he came back later, it didn't save the band from playing a far less interesting brand of DM then on their first two records.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:43 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
he kind of is the face of that big sound change, regardless of how little he had to do with it...

Kind of like Cannibal Corpse. I think they had a huge drop in quality after The Bleeding and the change of frontman happened at the same time, but it was the music that got significantly worse for me, Corpsegrinder is a top vocalist. In fact there's that demo of Vile songs with Chris Barnes where one can hear they changed for the worse regardless of who's growling into the microphone. Still a lot of old CC fans blame Corpsegrinder when he was never the problem - in fact considering the later development of Chris Barnes' "vocal skills" it was the best of decisions to switch (just a shame for a lyrics, Barnes' lyrics were far better than Webster's - though Barnes long lost the plot there as well.)
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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:36 pm 
 

The problem with Cryptopsy is they don't feel like Cryptopsy anymore, Flo is the only one of their big members left.
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CorpseFister
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:48 pm 
 

^Nah I dunno man, I listened to The Book of Suffering just the other day was surprised just how Cryptopsy it felt. It's not amazing, but it's a pretty solid and faithful interpretation of what makes their sound. Their current bassist totally slays the boinging slap bass.

droneriot wrote:
I think the vocals are perfect. I think if they had left out the thankfully rare lead guitars (especially the cringy At the Gates sounding ones in songs like "Phobophile") they'd have made two near-perfect albums.

Man, I love the leads and solos. Definitely part of the appeal of Levassuer's playing for me.
HeavenDuff wrote:
The fact that they switched from one of the most abbrasive, technically amazing and brutal style of tech death to play a more generic, not completely terrible though, style of death metal...

Funny thing about that is you can almost hear them being like "okay, what can we do to push this further, crazier and more brtual?!". While I do enjoy Whisper Supremacy, they clearly demonstrated that more technical does not equal better.

Oh and as I probably do in every thread about Cryptopsy I will say that I rather like Once Was Not. It's a weird, messy, oddball album, but it has it's own charm.

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Turd Blaster
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:47 pm 
 

I think Worm's signature 'RUHRUHRUH' completely intelligible style is part of the charm of the early stuff, particularly None So Vile.
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Adriankat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:10 pm 
 

I don't think Jon Levassuer leaving was the problem. Whisper Supremacy was where it went downhill. That album is a prime example of what not do in technical death metal. Every song was written with barely any regards for cohesion.

We don't have to pin the problem on anyone leaving. Sometimes, bands just start to suck.
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NARAKU666
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:31 am 
 

I would agree with OP if it wasn't for fucking Whisper Supremacy. Mike DiSalvo totally nailed it in that album IMO

Edit: Finally, my 1000th post
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brain hammer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:35 am 
 

"Cryptopsy - worthless without Lord Worm?"

Short answer: no.

Whisper Supremacy & the self titled Cryptopsy album are both very good, bordering on great albums...and the Book Of Suffering EP is excellent.

On the other hand...And Then You'll Beg was not very good vocally, and The Unspoken King IS pretty much worthless all around.

I've been a fan since Blasphemy Made Flesh was new, and I'm still a fan. I think Cryptopsy gets a bad rap, and that they have turned things around in a respectable direction within the last couple years.

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Indecency
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:11 pm 
 

I'm finding this forum's disposition towards this band quite interesting. As far as I remember, back when their self titled was recently out, people were crapping on this band left and right. I'm sure it was mostly from The Unspoken King, but the self titled was already out and people were still having those reactions. I guess the new EP really must have turned a few people over.

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RapeTheDead
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:33 pm 
 

Indecency wrote:
I'm finding this forum's disposition towards this band quite interesting. As far as I remember, back when their self titled was recently out, people were crapping on this band left and right. I'm sure it was mostly from The Unspoken King, but the self titled was already out and people were still having those reactions. I guess the new EP really must have turned a few people over.


They've pretty much been backpedaling ever since Unspoken King to try and reclaim whatever's left of their legacy (they brought Levasseur back to record the self-titled album, for example). For the most part, their post-TUK material is solid (haven't heard the new EP), but you can tell they're playing it safe. Even TUK at least sounded like it was really trying to do something crazy and different, despite how far it missed the mark. While most people seem to approve of them slipping into a more straightforward and comfortable style, I kind of want to see them push some boundaries again, even if they fail at it.

Also what's up with the love for Whisper Supremacy? Now there is an example of a band trying really hard and failing in the process. Also I've never been a DiSalvo fan and never will be. He sounds like a meat-headed hardcore fan trying to do tech death.

In answer to the thread's original question: in theory, the band shouldn't be any worse off without Lord Worm, but it just so happens that the only albums I actually enjoy by Cryptopsy are the ones he sung on. (BMF, NSV, OWN)
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Blort
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:30 pm 
 

I agree that the first two albums are the best by this band, but I'm not entirely sure how much Lord Worm contributed to the music.

I loved his vocal approach, but, to me, the first two albums have everything I enjoy in death metal (unhinged vocals, memorable songs, appropriate production) and the more recent albums are way more mechanical sounding and bland.

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TheConqueror1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:13 pm 
 

Lord Worm added a certain energy to Cryptopsy when he was in the group. He was kind of like a muse for the group basically. I also consider Lord Worm as one of the greatest metal lyricists of the 20th century. In my opinion, None So Vile would've been shit if Lord Worm had not been involved.

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CorpseFister
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:19 pm 
 

TheConqueror1 wrote:
In my opinion, None So Vile would've been shit if Lord Worm had not been involved.

That is a massive overstatement. The riffs, dude, THE RIFFS!

That said, he's absolutely a huge part of that album, for sure. I'm always baffled when people say they don't like him, but I suppose any rather distinctive vocalist performance will put some people off.

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TheConqueror1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:30 pm 
 

CorpseFister wrote:
TheConqueror1 wrote:
In my opinion, None So Vile would've been shit if Lord Worm had not been involved.

That is a massive overstatement. The riffs, dude, THE RIFFS!

That said, he's absolutely a huge part of that album, for sure. I'm always baffled when people say they don't like him, but I suppose any rather distinctive vocalist performance will put some people off.


Yes, I might have to agree that it is a overstatement but let's consider the facts. Blasphemy Made Flesh and None So Vile are considered brutal technical death Metal, right? Both of these releases are considered classics if we can agree to that. The brutal aspect of both these releases are due to lyrics of Lord Worm. He added brutality to Blasphemy Made Flesh and None So Vile. The riffs make an impact too but Lord Worm just has a certain creativity that influenced both albums.

I'm not a huge fan of death metal honestly, so I don't know that much about this genre the way I do about black metal by the way.

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John_Sunlight
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:23 pm 
 

Indecency wrote:
I'm finding this forum's disposition towards this band quite interesting. As far as I remember, back when their self titled was recently out, people were crapping on this band left and right. I'm sure it was mostly from The Unspoken King, but the self titled was already out and people were still having those reactions. I guess the new EP really must have turned a few people over.

The band did go out of their way to make fun of their own fans with that joke track. Not surprising people weren't feeling charitable. But now some time has passed and the band has realized that chasing the mall rat demographic isn't going to pay off, so they've come back to the fold.
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t1337Dude
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:27 pm 
 

I was surprised to hear that the Book of Suffering was a success...so I checked it out. It doesn't really remind me of past Cryptopsy that much. The riffing in particular just sounds more like Unfathomable Ruination and some other newer brutal tech death bands. It's a bit slammier sounding than I expected. Or maybe not slammy...but just focused on heavy bombastic riffing. Some riffs have the thuggy Dying Fetus type of sound which I admire. But it all comes together as unique and fresh. I might even enjoy this newest Cryptopsy more than anything else. If they keep this up, they could be back on top.


Last edited by t1337Dude on Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xenophon
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:31 pm 
 

Matt is a great vocalist, really intense on stage. I like the first two and the new EP, and to a lesser extent the self-titled, but nothing in between has really clicked so far.

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SkullFracturingNightmare
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:01 pm 
 

brain hammer wrote:
"Cryptopsy - worthless without Lord Worm?"

Short answer: no.

Whisper Supremacy & the self titled Cryptopsy album are both very good, bordering on great albums...and the Book Of Suffering EP is excellent.

On the other hand...And Then You'll Beg was not very good vocally, and The Unspoken King IS pretty much worthless all around.

I've been a fan since Blasphemy Made Flesh was new, and I'm still a fan. I think Cryptopsy gets a bad rap, and that they have turned things around in a respectable direction within the last couple years.

Only worthwhile post in this topic.

And yeah, Matt's improved quite a bit since The Unspoken King. Sure, he's still not quite on the same level of quality as Worm (in his own way) or Mike DiSalvo, but he's more than made up for his rough as hell debut since then.

Also this isn't meant in any way to insult the guy, just simply an observation, but Matt sure has a very womanly, yet also manly figure and long ass hair hahaha. Like, his upper body is rather defined but he's super thin around his torso so that's where I'm getting the womanly thing from.
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BottomFeeder1
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:52 pm 
 

Yes, I'm afraid cryptopsy worthless without lord worm and lavasuer and monier. Lord Worm puts the death in death metal which is essential for making an album that will be remembered and embraced by the non fickle metal crowd in the long run.

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The Lions Den
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:35 am 
 

early Cryptopsy addicted here, None So Vile is a must of the genre and this thanks to the extraordinary collective who mark it (Eric Langlois, Flo Mounier, Jon Levasseur and Lord Worm surely in 1995/1996 was the "perfect" line-up in terms of brutality, technicality, musicianship, live attitude and so on, probably only Morbid Angel can compete in that time).

I love Lord Worm style and attitude and I'm crying when he left the band, but Mike Di Salvo did so good job on Whisper Supremacy and And Then You'll Beg. Sure Di Salvo have a much harsh style in comparison but it fits so well the progression which have music and sound in that album.

And so great work does Martin Lacroix, on stage (see them in 2001 with him, a nuclear scenario) and on the mastodontic None So Live. Martin have a lot in common with Lord Worm (madness, growling...) and probably (I repeat, PROBABLY), if Mounier doesn't go crazy and fired him, now we'll be talking about something else...

No care about the band after this live record, and I have to hate leader Flo Mounier's choices about new musical shitty direction (commercial? inconclusive? lack of inspiration? lack of the early madness? both?)

In the end, Cryptopsy sure worth the weight with Di Salvo and Lacroix, althought nothing can top NSV and BMF. And of course, as almost the early fans, I despite the other albums... since the new ep...

[continue]
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 am 
 

BottomFeeder1 wrote:
lavasuer

:(
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Direnotes
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:48 am 
 

I saw them with Matt McGachy and it was intense, I actually got into the band because of McGachy being such a awesome vocalist and he was really nice, signed my CD and so did the rest of the band - none of that 'VIP' only stuff. They were the first real Death Metal band I ever saw live and it was one of the best experiences of my life. I own everything with McGachy on it now and some Lord Worm, but I wasn't really drawn the the Lord Worm stuff so much. Granted it was probably a tad more unique and definable, almost a blacked at some points, but McGachy is fierce as hell.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:53 pm 
 

RapeTheDead wrote:
They've pretty much been backpedaling ever since Unspoken King to try and reclaim whatever's left of their legacy (they brought Levasseur back to record the self-titled album, for example). For the most part, their post-TUK material is solid (haven't heard the new EP), but you can tell they're playing it safe. Even TUK at least sounded like it was really trying to do something crazy and different, despite how far it missed the mark. While most people seem to approve of them slipping into a more straightforward and comfortable style, I kind of want to see them push some boundaries again, even if they fail at it.


I think that Flo Mounier got stressed at some point... Without the incredible stage presence of Lord Worm and his very unique style, and with Levasseur gone... he probably just wanted to save Cryptopsy and tried that "deathcore" thingy that so many kids seemed to like, and the came back to playing death metal after the massive backlash of TUK. I guess we'll never know for sure if Mounier went back to death metal because he really wanted to play dm all along and only tried deathcore to try and make his band popular again, or if the guy doesn't really care what he plays but only re-acted to the backlash when he decided to go back to death metal.

The end result is that Cryptopsy is kind of stuck with that image of a band that's trying to be relevent again, and even with the great quality stuff they are releasing lately, they are still that band that we look at and think, "Yeah well, they have to make up for The Unknown King so..." And since McGachy joined the band they took that deathcore turn, he's still not getting full recognition from the fans, even if most are slowly accepting him as a good vocalist.

And Cryptopsy will also always have to deal with the criticism of fans who really only enjoyed the first two full-lenghts. And these fans most likely will never be really satisfied with anything new by Cryptopsy, though they would probably give them more of a chance if Lord Worm was still in the band,

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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:30 pm 
 

What they really need right now is a second guitarist to fill out the live sound and bring something additional to the songwriting.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:31 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
Thread logical fallacy 1: Whisper Supremacy is the best Cryptopsy album and Lord Worm is not the vocalist on this album.

Thread logical fallacy 2: Lorn Worm was the vocalist on Once Was Not and that album is an unmitigated mess, totally unlistenable, and is easily one of Cryptopsy's worst albums. So there is an element of worthlessness even when Lord Worm was fronting this band.

And the laughable "only obscure bassists from the first album are real!" hipsterism about Martin Fergusson being a driving force (especially on an album he did not even play on as cited by the OP)-give me a break. It's known, documented, and understood that Levasseur was the driving force on this band's early material.

If anything, Cryptopsy is worthless without Jon Levassuer, but even that's arguable.


None of what you said above has to do with logic, btw. Might want to rephrase your post.
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Sepulchrave
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:05 pm 
 

You gotta admit though, McGachy is one sexy bloke.
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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:21 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
And Cryptopsy will also always have to deal with the criticism of fans who really only enjoyed the first two full-lenghts. And these fans most likely will never be really satisfied with anything new by Cryptopsy, though they would probably give them more of a chance if Lord Worm was still in the band,


i'm one of those people that only really cares for the first two (and especially none so vile), but i thought the self titled was decent... it's not something i'll ever just put on, but i don't have anything against it. and i think i would like the book... if it didn't have that horrible sterile production that completely ruins it
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Lagartija
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:27 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
I think the vocals are perfect. I think if they had left out the thankfully rare lead guitars (especially the cringy At the Gates sounding ones in songs like "Phobophile") they'd have made two near-perfect albums.

The solos are miles better on 'Blasphemy made flesh', they don't go anywehere on 'None so vile'. I think the first album is miles better songwriting-wise, but it is severely let down by the sound. If it had the production of NSV it would be held in much higher regard than the second album.

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