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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:01 pm 
 

Pretty shocked to not see a thread about this yet, so there I just made it. Single is going to drop in a week or so... my expectations are reserved but hey I'm still a bit excited. I liked DPP better than Imaginaerum but both had a few good tracks.

But that cover art is pretty horrendous and the track titles aren't particularly inspiring.

Image
1. Shudder Before the Beautiful
2. Weak Fantasy
3. Élan
4. Yours Is an Empty Hope
5. Our Decades in the Sun
6. My Walden
7. Endless Forms Most Beautiful
8. Edema Ruh
9. Alpenglow
10. The Eyes of Sharbat Gula
11. The Greatest Show on Earth

Go
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Zelkiiro
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:46 pm 
 

The titles are very strange, indeed, but I've got high hopes. As always.
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teh_Foxx0rz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:55 pm 
 

It does actually look an After Forever or Epica album. That's not inherently a bad thing.

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By_Inheritance
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:22 pm 
 

I'm quite excited to be honest. Imaginaerum was the best thing they've done in a good while, and now that Floor is the vocalist, I can't see what could go wrong. The live album from Wacken with her on vocals is mind blowing too. Definitely one of my most anticipated albums.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:03 pm 
 

teh_Foxx0rz wrote:
It does actually look an After Forever or Epica album.

Or even a Machine Head album.

I still haven't decided if I'm buying this album. If the first song they release blows me away, maybe I'll pre-order it.
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:24 pm 
 

As I think I mentioned elsewhere, I am unreservedly excited, with hopes through the roof. Particularly because of that fabulous live album with Floor. Brought me right back to this band - and to be honest, the two post-Tarja ones so far have had enough good stuff to keep me entertained. Really can't wait to hear the single, hoping it's more of a rocker than a ballad so I can get a feel for the album. Will probably snap this up on day one anyway, massive fan of Floor's voice.

Yeah good point actually, the art does look very much like something Epica would do, and the band does seem to be drifting into that same vaguely science-worshiping humanist direction with the album concept and what they've been posting on Facebook. Also, the announcement of an appearance by Richard Dawkins on one of the songs prompted some hilarious reactions in the comments.
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Lord_Lexy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:28 pm 
 

I have a positive feeling about this one. I liked Imaginaerum a lot better than Dark Passion Play, but it still had Anette whose vocal never really fit in with Nightwish' music. Floor can handle Tarja era Nightwish much better than Anette, and I hope the music will reflect this.

The songtitles are weird, but Nightwish never has been the band with the comprehensible lyrics.
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:55 pm 
 

That cover art, yuck. Enough with mirror-effects. The CGI isn't good, either. This is the only Nightwish album I'll actually want to listen to cause Floor rules.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:07 pm 
 

The track titles really do remind me of After Forever, they sound quite cool...better than the Disney crap on the last one or the tweenie-goth stuff of the one before that. Floor is great and Marco Hietala still rules insurmountably, so I'm looking forward to it.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:00 pm 
 

Diamhea wrote:
Pretty shocked to not see a thread about this yet, so there I just made it. Single is going to drop in a week or so... my expectations are reserved but hey I'm still a bit excited. I liked DPP better than Imaginaerum but both had a few good tracks.

Don't think there's been a thread because not too many on MA are thoroughly excited. The ten something making of videos are verbal diarrhea purely made for hyping the gullible, with "no new music featured", why exactly no new music (?), is this a making of the making of?

The album name is terrible and sounds close to laughable broken English. Same can be said for most of the track titles.

Cover art looks like black and white vomit. Will be fitting if the music sounds as such.

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DarthVenom
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:13 pm 
 

If anyone's confused about the title, apparently it's pulled from The Origin Of Species:

Quote:
“Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.”


At any rate, I'm excited to see what Floor can bring to the band after hearing her on the live album.

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Cursarion
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:40 pm 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
The album name is terrible and sounds close to laughable broken English. Same can be said for most of the track titles.

Eh. Well, what the previous poster says. The theme actually explains some of the titles, and the cover, though not its execution.

Anyway, I think this is one of the cases where judging a book based on its cover (and title) isn't going to do you any good.

Also, there are some fake leaks all over the web. Did anyone here fall for those? Afaik there are literally zero samples so far. It's an interesting approach, but I wouldn't really listen to them anyway beforehand.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:57 pm 
 

Cursarion wrote:
Eh. Well, what the previous poster says. The theme actually explains some of the titles, and the cover, though not its execution.
Eh, in the context of the full sentence it works, when it's pretentiously separated into a few words without any background it sounds like broken English.
Cursarion wrote:
Anyway, I think this is one of the cases where judging a book based on its cover (and title) isn't going to do you any good.
I did the same with Imaginaerum and that was an overblown mess with little value so I think I'll do just that until I'm proven otherwise.

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ENKC
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:51 pm 
 

I've loved Nightwish with both their singers and Floor killed it live, so consider me pumped for this release. But Richard Dawkins? Really?
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hots_towel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:22 am 
 

ENKC wrote:
I've loved Nightwish with both their singers and Floor killed it live, so consider me pumped for this release. But Richard Dawkins? Really?
Darwin wrote that book. doubt it means anything though, as Toumas appears neutral on that subject.

to stay on topic though, i agree with you on Floor also. Their Wacken performance of Everdream is top notch. that whole performance in general was amazing actually. i didnt care for imaginarium though, so hopefully they've gotten some good creative energy back. i havent delved too far into symphonic metal, making this band my 'go to' one whenever im craving that sound.

Here's to hoping this album is more inspired than those track titles.
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Paganbasque
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:21 am 
 

Floor is my only reason to listen to this album. And who knows, perhaps they can bring us a more straightforward album and less pretentious.

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ENKC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:42 am 
 

hots_towel wrote:
ENKC wrote:
I've loved Nightwish with both their singers and Floor killed it live, so consider me pumped for this release. But Richard Dawkins? Really?
Darwin wrote that book. doubt it means anything though, as Toumas appears neutral on that subject.

I know Darwin wrote the book (who doesn't?), but the album will apparently feature a guest appearance by Richard Dawkins. That's one of the stranger cameos I've encountered.
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Metallic Shock
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:44 am 
 

Well it's not that weird since Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist and Darwin is the founder of evolution. They will probably have him read some segments from On the Origin of Species.

I'm definitely hyped because even though I found Once and DPP to be lackluster, I actually really dig all of Imaginaerum (minus the last 1 and half tracks) so that plus Floor singing is an exciting prospect. I would appreciate a slightly smaller scale this time, but I guess it already qualifies under that solely because this one isn't being turned into a movie.

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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:52 am 
 

I love that live album as much as everyone else, and I have complete faith in Floor, but I don't expect anything worth hearing twice from this until we have the full product available.
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:37 am 
 

"Endless forms most beautiful" even as a phrase on its own makes for rather nice English, actually. It's not what would be recognised as modern, global English, but that doesn't detract from it as a title used in 2015. Same would go for something Miltonic, like "what in me is dark/ Illumine" and many other examples.

Just Googling it now, "endless forms most beautiful" was in fact used as the title of a book on science by a professor just a few years ago.
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NecropsY
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:38 pm 
 

every song they write is just full bars of the same chord

why would anyone care about this band

every song is litterly 5/3 5/3 5/3 5/3, 3/1 , 3/1 3/1 3/1 , 5/3 5/3 5/3 5/3, 2/0 2/0 2/0 2/0 *you get the idea

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Alsandair
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:12 pm 
 

:scratch:

As usual I'm excited but nervous. It should be awesome having Floor on vocals, but I wouldn't put it past Tuomas to write some bizarre/unenjoyable music. I mean, that cover doesn't exactly show great judgement. Still, my hopes will remain high until the moment of truth.

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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:32 pm 
 

NecropsY wrote:
every song they write is just full bars of the same chord

why would anyone care about this band

every song is litterly 5/3 5/3 5/3 5/3, 3/1 , 3/1 3/1 3/1 , 5/3 5/3 5/3 5/3, 2/0 2/0 2/0 2/0 *you get the idea


Damn, you're right. Thanks for clarifying that!
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Napero
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:01 pm 
 

joncheetham88 wrote:
"Endless forms most beautiful" even as a phrase on its own makes for rather nice English, actually. It's not what would be recognised as modern, global English, but that doesn't detract from it as a title used in 2015. Same would go for something Miltonic, like "what in me is dark/ Illumine" and many other examples.

This here, hear hear! It's not against the grammar any more than, say, "Paradise lost".

I still can't get any of the Dawkins hate... Seriously? The most polite, well-articulated man, talking about believing in things based on evidence and not blind faith, and even metalheads occasionally seem insulted? What is this thing?

On the other hand, I did watch Dogma with a relatively and superficially sane workmate the other night, and after being rather satisfied with the movie, out of the blue, he launched into a long drunken tirade about how Da Vinci Code is an intentionally offensive piece of art aimed at insulting like everybody and the kitchen sink. IMO, it's just a bad book based on a single inoffensive idea, turned into a bad movie with mediocre acting, and someone somewhere decided to get his knickers in a knot over it, proving that certain aspects of christianity are in no way any better than certain people getting insulted over a Danish cartoon...

Anyway, I find the concept intriguing, and I suggest anyone doubting my words and the validity of the idea of including some words by Dawkins on the album should actually see what the man is all about, and to find the connection between the concept and him, to read The Ancestor's Tale. It's is very interesting, inoffensive unless you're a thoroughly indoctrinated Jesus freak, and makes some damn interesting points about various things along the way. Yes, the rest of his works are tedious and monomanic, but that one is actually a very enjoyable read. Try it. If Nightwish manages to get the same idea to work on the album, it will be quite something, I think.

And yes, the track titles do make sense in the context.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:27 pm 
 

I'm cautiously optimistic. Nightwish has never made a bad album in my eyes but Tuomas's childhood fixation combined with the rather bloated symphonics and downtuned chugging are running the risk of sounding stale. I'm looking forward to samples but I won't be expecting Oceanborn or Century Child.
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Nochielo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:35 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
joncheetham88 wrote:
"Endless forms most beautiful" even as a phrase on its own makes for rather nice English, actually. It's not what would be recognised as modern, global English, but that doesn't detract from it as a title used in 2015. Same would go for something Miltonic, like "what in me is dark/ Illumine" and many other examples.

This here, hear hear! It's not against the grammar any more than, say, "Paradise lost".

I still can't get any of the Dawkins hate... Seriously? The most polite, well-articulated man, talking about believing in things based on evidence and not blind faith, and even metalheads occasionally seem insulted? What is this thing?

Yes to both. Poetic license people. It isn't supposed to be a thesis, just to sound cool and to provide a sort of backdrop. Secondly, Dawkins is absurdly well-mannered (almost to a fault), people often see him as conceited because he uses long words and doesn't too get worked up over the arguments. Hearing he's going to be in the album made me hope he was like a sick violinist or a powerful baritone or something, that would have been quite a surprise.

As for the album, I'll check it out because Floor rules and I kind of like no-Annete Nightwish. Let us hear some music, band.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:28 pm 
 

Annete was finally starting to get comfortable and come into her own on Imaginaerum. T'was a shame she quit/got fired so quickly after that, but then Floor proceeded to kick an immense amount of ass on that live album and I forgot all about Annete. I'm greatly looking forward to this album just to see what she'll do.
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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:36 pm 
 

Floor might be a great singer but its still gonna be the same industrial/nu metal they've played since Once.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:35 pm 
 

So the final song is 24 minutes long, huh? That's like 3 "Fantasmic"s!
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:01 am 
 

ChineseDownhill wrote:
So the final song is 24 minutes long, huh? That's like 3 "Fantasmic"s!

Wait, what? Wait, WHAT?!

I DEMAND TO KNOW WHERE THIS INFORMATION WAS OBTAINED. BECAUSE THAT SOUNDS GLORIOUS TO ME.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:42 am 
 

Folkemon_ wrote:
Floor might be a great singer but its still gonna be the same industrial/nu metal they've played since Once.

Can't tell if you're serious.

I'm curious at the sheer amount of excitement, all mostly based on the assumption that Floor will somehow restore order and make it a stand-out even though she's just placing a voice over Tuomas Holopainen's modern unflinchingly grandiose arrangement of pretentious, 'it's like a epic movie score hurp-a-durp', overly bombastic symphonic metal. I'm setting my exceptions much lower, this is hardly going to be Wishmaster part 2.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:50 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
modern unflinchingly grandiose arrangement of pretentious, 'it's like a epic movie score hurp-a-durp', overly bombastic symphonic metal.

That's kinda what it's always been, yo. And it's what makes me the most happy.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:07 am 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
volutetheswarth wrote:
modern unflinchingly grandiose arrangement of pretentious, 'it's like a epic movie score hurp-a-durp', overly bombastic symphonic metal.

That's kinda what it's always been, yo. And it's what makes me the most happy.

I tend to disagree. There's a certain subtly on earlier records that's really removed to a large extent post Tarja and to a lesser extent before, and the riffs have tended to feel more simplified for some time, now it's like throw everything including the kitchen sink into the mix, and as a result the guitars are mostly lost. Tuomas reminds me of the fictional character 'Dewey Cox' and how he firmly insists on more goat bleats in a single song despite it already being a wall of noise. I do wish to be proven wrong however, I'd like something I can digest audibly and more sections of old that I can headbang to.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:52 am 
 

The old stuff (pre-Once, although it was starting to show a bit on Century Child) was infinitely less bombastic and bloated than what they eventually morphed into. I think Tuomas started to buy into the whole "tortured artiste" thing that their fanbase had fashioned for him and it began affecting what they wrote and how he went about doing business. As said, Once was where it really began to become apparent that they were changing sound-wise for the worse, although that album had a few songs that I still throw on every now and then (Dark Chest of Wonders, Creek Mary's Blood, and Planet Hell, although I don't dislike Nemo nearly as much as many others do). Outside of The Poet and the Pendulum and The Islander, Dark Passion Play sucked a dick, and is without a doubt their worst album. Imaginaerum was where they finally started to get a handle on things again, and I really, really enjoyed that album and the direction it took; it had that "movie score metal" vibe going on, but it was well written and entertaining. Annete didn't sound nearly as hesitant and out of place as she did on Dark Passion Play, and that helped considerably, but I will concede that it was still pretentious to an absurd degree. Hopefully the combination of Floor injecting her personality into the mix and Tuomas doing that retarded Scrooge McDuck album helps tone down the pretentiousness of this new album and gets them on that damn near perfect path they were going down on Oceanborn and Wishmaster.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:35 am 
 

The final song being 24 minutes, if that's true, sounds like a potential disaster to me.
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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:37 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
Folkemon_ wrote:
Floor might be a great singer but its still gonna be the same industrial/nu metal they've played since Once.

Can't tell if you're serious.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcyTR5mEC_E
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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:09 am 
 

Folkemon_ wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcyTR5mEC_E


Yeah...I'm not the biggest fan of Once either, and as much as that song is one of the reasons for that, let's not pretend it's not exceptionally shitty and different from the rest of the album.
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the_bard_of_osyrhia
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:33 am 
 

I enjoyed a fair few songs from Imaginaerum and am certainly excited to hear Floor's input to the sound. It doesn't seem too far-fetched to expect at least a slight movement towards the older style since Floor excels at singing in an operatic or classical style rather than the more pop/rock singing Anette brought to the band.

Certainly not sure how to feel about this rumour that the final song might be 24 minutes long. I'm usually eager to hear bands experiment with longer song forms but it could end up seriously bloated. We shall see.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:05 pm 
 

I guess it's better to forget they played a sort of power metal once and just expect the usual glorified Evanescence shit they've been doing since Once, just with better vocals.

To expect a Wishmaster II is like expecting Metallica doing a KEA II
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joncheetham88
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:29 pm 
 

A magazine I've never heard of called Progteam were invited to hear the new album in London. The fact that a magazine like that gets invited might give some idea as to what the album sounds like, and they make mention of proggier and even "colder" soundscapes. It seems the closer is indeed 24 minutes long. However there is mention of tighter composition as well, which sounds appealing. You can read the article here (http://prog.teamrock.com/features/2015-02-02/nightwish-first-impressions) and I've put their notes in the spoiler. There isn't a lot of detail or juicy information, but worth a read if you are anticipating it as much as me:

Spoiler: show
JERRY EWING (EDITOR) Certainly not as immediate as Imaginaerum, and it didn't seem as bombastic either. Much more prog than metal, with some nice Celtic flourishes from Troy Donockley. Floor Jansen sounds most impressive too. The addition of Richard Dawkins will annoy some as much as it will impress others. The closing 24-minute epic, the aptly titled The Greatest Show On Earth, will delight most prog fans of the band. I suspect it'll be a grower!

RUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (ART EDITOR) Less Abba-like histrionics and more Celtic pipery than you can throw a kitchen sink at, Nightwish continue hurtling headlong into the meaning of life, the universe and everything else. Striking a fine balance between voice of an angel and amazonian goddess, Floor Jansen more than holds her own against Tuomas’s tidal wave of sound and symphonic deluge

NATASHA SCHARF (NEWS EDITOR) It feels like Nightwish have decided to revisit their pre-Imaginaerum sound and bring it right up to date with slicker production and tighter composition. Heavier yet even proggier than their previous albums, Endless Forms... builds on their trademark symphonic-meets-celtic sound with maturity and greater confidence. And new singer Floor Jansen's vocals are absolutely spot-on.

MALCOLM DOME (WRITER) An album which will doubtless make a very positive impression after a few listens. First impression is that it's cold, remote and lacking immediacy. It references the band's past, while also moving things forward. And it makes you want to live with it.
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"I have been given the flesh of the sun to eat, and the milk of the moon to drink.
I have pressed through the long night and been reborn through the realms of dissolution."

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