Angst is often considered to be a controversial emotion to find in metal. Looking back on metal's history, angst is a feeling that is rarely overtly expressed, but there are numerous exceptions. A couple that come to mind are Suicidal Tendencies and Death Angel, who wrote their fair share of songs about teens and young adults raging out against society, parents or teachers.

How do most people here feel about angst in metal? Is angst a mature and respectable emotion that serves a purpose and should be expressed artistically? I have heard so many people lash out against angst-ridden music in the metal community, I think it is safe to say there is some taboo to it.

As long as the music's good, and the angst is being expressed in a poetic way, I could care less.

I dont even care if its expressed in a poetic way. I just dont want it sung in horrible metalcore vocals or tough guy groove metal vocals. Just spit your piss with some thrash stylings and Im good to go.

I didn't mean poetic lyrics could get away with being sung badly, but just as long as it isn't being expressed annoyingly. Depressive black metal is pretty much adult angst to me. :/ A lot of it is able to get away with what it is because it's black metal. Correct me if I'm interpreting it wrong.

There is a dangerous stereotype often associated with metalheads about all of us discovering metal in our teenage years as a way to vent out our angst. While this in fact may be true to a certain extent, I, for example, had a perfectly stable, normal, relatively no-stress teenage period, yet I'm listening to some of the most extreme forms of music available.

I have nothing against angst, therefore, as long as the angst expressed is the true philosophical angst, be it against life, humanity, bodily imprisonment (all very widely associated with black metal), or even everyday forms, against the government, politics etc. However, plain teenage angst (which is admittedly fairly rare in metal) against parents and any sort of authority, as often seen in punk, is something that I disapprove of.

Now, this is where things get interesting, and this was the angst I was referring to when I mentioned bands like Suicidal Tendencies. Why do you disapprove?

I don't mind DSBM about the troubles of adult life and real emotions.

Or thrash/death/crust/grind/sludge about serious teenage angst, like criminality, drug abuse, the lack of a job, opressive authority (goverment/teachers/parents) and the emotional mess some teenagers are. Rebellion is natural for both metal and the typical teenage thought and probarly a bunch of classic thrash bands exist just because 4 teens got pissed again.

About the emotional mess some teenagers are: I'm not talking about the typical "boohoo, this girl won't love me" crap or those youths that are really criminal and just keep breaking the law and don't care. I'm talking about not knowing what to do with life and emotions. I'm 16 and have ADHD, which often causes mood swings (the 4 extremes mostly: too enthousiast, very shy, depressive or way too lazy/relaxed). Sometimes I just don't know what to do with it, it feels like I'm in the middle of an unknown movie. And than, than it feels really good when I listen to a band like Suicidal Tendencies and their message.

Why should I bother about a relationship that will quit after a month anyway, I can't even get my own shit straight.

tldr; Teenage angst in metal is only acceptable when it's about opression, criminality, bad environment and a feeling of helplessness in the real mean adult world (in my case, that is caused by mood swings).

This is not an easy question, I'll admit to that. I believe that I've always personally regarded "troubled" peers in high school as weak personalities and unable to cope with their problems due to a lack of balls, and that'd be the source of my disapproval. It's completely personal, though; singing about the inevitability of death is, to me, facing the factual state of affairs and a philosophical reflection on that; singing about how nobody truly understands you is just attention whoring to me.

I think people get annoyed by this type of "teenage angst" more or less because no one gives a shit about someone else's teenage problems. Anyone who's grown beyond that stage can see it from the outside as a relatively harmless larval stage that one naturally grows out of in the process of becoming adult, as one's understanding of the world develops.

That being said, I think the term "angst" has been warped in the popular consciousness to actually mean this sort of bratty tantrum-thinking born of the teenage mind that doesn't want to do its homework, rather than what it actually refers to (at least in my understanding), namely a state of untargeted spiritual dread or anxiety. Angst is a universal human experience, not the exclusive domain of the 15-year-old. Not to make a grand argument of this point, but I feel as though quite a lot of metal is inspired by this state of angst, whether or not the artist recognizes it as such. What begins as an amorphous anxiety may then find a thematic target at which to aim itself in a bid for catharsis.

I don't really think adults feel angst any less than teenagers; in fact they probably understand it more deeply, but are simply better at either repressing, containing, or sublimating it.

Angst as it's defined today is nothing more than being a whiny little baby.

At least when Suicidal sang about feelings, it was usually punctuated with a big fat "fuck you" at the end.

I think older adults on average feel less angst because they have less authority to report to. They have the law, and their jobs. A teenager has those two in addition to parents and school.

Of course, most older adults have more responsibility, and therefore experience more stress, but it is a different emotion from angst.

As long as its not "RAAAAAAA MY MOMMY DIND'T BY ME A FERRARI FUCK THIS LIFE ILL TAKE MY KNIFE INTO MY SPINE!" or "AAAAAARRGH THIS GIRL DONT LIKE ME I SAY ILL SWIM IN BEES AND GET STUNG CUZ MY LIFE IS FUCKED!" teenage type angst then its fine. Real anger/angst at society is something that everybody has at least a bit of. At least I think everybody does.

Edit: Typo

I think this came from a Korn song.

I wish bands were less pander-y with their lyrics (regarding angst). It's one thing that has destroyed my interest in Chimaira. Their lyrics are angsty as hell and there's this pandering quality to them that's viciously annoying.

"YOU LEFT US, LEFT FOR DEAD... WHYYY DAAADD?!"

Angst is a legitimate human emotion and like any emotion it can be written about in extremely immature ways. Avoid that and it's fine.

I usually don't think style can substitute for substance, but the ability to make one's 'complaints and dissatisfactions of life (to me this is really what it all gets down to)' sound important or artistic enough that other people wouldn't get annoyed or, sometimes, even moderately interested, is to me a commendable factor.

Angst is a human emotion not so different from others so it's all up to how you deliver it. Emotion or the lyrical topic alone doesn't make a music, anyhow.

How do you interpret something wrong? its called interpret for a reason, because there is no set definition, you define it based on your Percival of it

Percival?

Just curious- what bands have such lyrics? (serious question)

Lifelover, I guess.

And Shining

Some of you are saying angst in the "rage against parents" way is dumb, what are your opinions on Metallica - Dyer's Eve? That's angsty as fuck but I've never heard it criticised for it.

It probably has to do with the fact that it's thrashy as fuck, and it's a relatively old song. And probably just because it's one song on that album that is like that.

I notice that Angst tends to be handled in several ways in heavy music the mature route would be to identify the subject and offering either a response/closure to the subject, which i find to generally be the most acceptable or positive use of angst. I guess this is notable in stuff like Minor Threat, Cro-Mags and alot of tough-guy crap.

The alternatives tend to be to embrace it which i guess is nihilistic but eveyone can surely appreciate hatred of some aspect of the world or life in general... Unless of course you spend your time listening to Edguy or Dragoforce. I guess this tends to be most evident in stuff like funeral doom, black metal or holy terror stuff.

Or the shittiest route which is to simply whine aimlessly or without offering any response without acceptance which is most typical of the worst aspects of nu-metal, emo and metal/deathcore.

EDIT: Double post.

I agree. A lot of thrash metal had lyrics in this style actually. And I am talking about the 80's here. There is a lot of "why is this happening to me" kind of stuff, which avoids being whiny or remotely related to emo while asking a lot more interesting questions.

And although it's political, I'd say that in their own way, you could easily call some of Napalm Death's lyrics angsty, but in a more nihilistic way as you said in your next paragraph.



Slightly off topic diversion: while not a big fan of Dragonforce, I'm proud to say that I'd rather listen to Edguy or almost any power metal band over some depressive nihilistic death metal or black metal that makes me feel like killing myself. Yeah, you could say that makes me emotionally weaker, for not being able to handle nihilism. However, much as it's a cliche to say this, there was a period in my life when I loved metal with a strongly anti-human and nihilistic slant. I've since lost interest in that side of things, and at the moment I'm exploring the glorious and heroic side of humanity as opposed to the hopelessly cynical one. Not saying that I don't listen to metal with dark lyrics, in fact I recently got into Leviathan (ironic I know) but not all of it appeals to me anymore.

Back on topic, though, I agree that most people can appreciate nihilism in music on some level, if not always a good one. (not true nihilism but still, who can forget the popularity of Nirvana and their ilk in the early 90's?) Again, black metal isn't always nihilistic - a lot of that aspect of the genre is a stereotype associated with northern europe, the cold, and depression, which doesn't even involve the entire black metal scene worldwide anyway.



Yes. This is why I never got into, say, Slipknot even when I was much younger. I guess I was always mature enough to see that they were a bunch of grown men acting like angsty teens in order to appeal to angsty teens.

Well, There is angst that when you hear it you think "What a whiney little bitch" and then it's backed up by some mediocre to poor music that makes you think "and this song sucks too!"

But then there is the good angst. Put on institutionalized by ST and this part is great when he's talking about when his mom won't give him a pepsi. This is good because 1. Who hasn't been in a situation when they just want something as simple as a pepsi but they can't get it. That's classy, and 2. it's not whiny because everyone has been in that situation and everyone can relate to how much it sucks. I mean god damn, I remember when I was that age and if my Mom didn't give me a pepsi I would flip the fuck out. Oh, and 3. a key part is that you can't take angst seriously. If you try, you just look like a moron.

DRI wrote the best "teen angst" lyrics, but Overkill had some good ones, like Fuck You and I Hate.



Just one pithy example.