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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:58 pm 
 

Re-recordings of classic albums is never popular, but Sonata Arctica decided to ignore that and put out a "new" version of Ecliptica next month. To me it's such a perfect album that has stood the test of time both in terms of songwriting and production quality that it baffles me that they're doing this. On Tuesday they're putting up the first taste of it in the form of a single for Kingdom For a Heart. Here's a low quality teaser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7OGeiMbqk

I've heard the full lossless version and it's basically the same song but has a bit more bass and Tony is trying to show off his improved range. In other words, it's completely unnecessary. Is there anyone that's actually excited about this album and will be buying it for any other reason than to complete their collection?
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Turner
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:08 pm 
 

that newer production sounds shit, guitars have zero oomph to them, and tony doesn't sound any better now... i'd say his voice is kinda processed there. i dunno, ecliptica is one of the few albums in that style i like, and i *really* like it. this don't need'ta happen none!


Last edited by Turner on Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:09 pm 
 

Don't really see too much of a point in this. It won't be as good as the original because Kakko is a better kekyboardist than Klingenberg (srs) and his work on the ivories is what made the band's earlist material so enjoyable to me.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:10 pm 
 

I'm simultaneously excited and horrified.

Oh boy! It's Ecliptica! :'D
Oh shit! It's a rerecording! D':
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Opus
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:26 pm 
 

Booooooooo
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teh_Foxx0rz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:50 pm 
 

Yeah Ecliptica already exists, and they were young and youthful and Kakko was putting all his emotion into it. Here he's just kind of singing it, not really feeling it as he used to.

They're a different band now; calmer, "prettier" and more introspective, and just aren't in that zone anymore.

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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:25 pm 
 

Im interested to hear Destruction Preventer done again and hopefully it gets em playing stuff like that and Picturing the Past/Unopened live
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:35 pm 
 

Tony is a better singer now overall but he doesn't sound as good singing the manic vocal lines from that song (or the rest of the album). That sample didn't sound bad, but like every re-recorded album, what's the point? I'd rather just have another album of new material in a few years personally.
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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:50 pm 
 

My gut feeling is that since Pariah's Child wasn't the return to the glory days as they claimed so they slapped this together to try to bring back the old fans.
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:05 pm 
 

They already recorded 'Replice' and 'My Land' a second time around in 2006, which makes it a bit odd doing it all over again now.

It would be a shame if after a really solid latter days record like Pariah's Child they really screwed the pooch on an ill-conceived re-recording. The best that can be hoped for is that at least some of it will be worth hearing in its own right, and that it is something that can be at least listened to for its own quality rather than still always going back to the original (like Tarot's 2011 version of The Spell of Iron, one of the few really well done re-recording albums).

The new version of 'Kingdom for a Heart' sounds like nothing special, but I'm still keen to hear how my old faves 'Blank File' and 'Destruction Preventer' have been reincarnated.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:56 pm 
 

To be fair, I never really did like "Kingdom for a Heart." Everything else is goddamn genius, but that one track did nothing for me. That's why I'm not reading too much into that sample--it's a meh revision of a meh song.

Now, when I hear the new "8th Commandment" or "Destruction Preventer," I'll have a more tangible opinion. And possibly an ulcer.
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Mysticaloldbard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:18 pm 
 

I feel lukewarm about the whole thing. I'm not a fan of whole rerecorded albums (with few exceptions - I like Stormblast MMV, for one). I don't have any interest in buying or even listening to this because I have no issues with the original album. Sonata doesn't appear to be making a lot of hubbub about this, which is nice. On the bright side, being in the spirit of things, they played a good number of Ecliptica songs when I saw them last weekend.
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By_Inheritance
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:36 am 
 


Full version.


I guess it's not totally horrible, but it's still pretty poor. It sounds virtually the same as the original, but with a more modern production. The vocals are a bit haldf-arsed compared to the original, but that's probably down to age an' such.
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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:03 am 
 

Well it will be nice to hear some of the riffs that were kinda buried under keyboards/vocals/drums on the original version.

Sounds alot like the original version and if it didn't people would whine about it just like they are about it sounding similar, I think its a good rerecording to be honest, alot of other bands rerecordings are awful, this is decent, i like the end with the backing vocals and they didnt ruin the song, thats a good thing.

Im wondering if he hits that high note on Destruction Preventer again.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:53 am 
 

Congratulations, you still know how to play your own old songs.

'Ecliptica' is the only Sonata Arctica album that I truly love, and this won't change anything for me. The original album is perfect as it is, so it's not a case of '(The) Savage Poetry', where incredible songs had never had their chance to shine and were given a second life. This re-recording is perfectly fine in and of itself, but utterly unnecessary and predictably weaker than the real thing.

The only potentially good things that might come out of this endeavor is that they'll likely have an incentive to perform some of those songs live again, and it might lead to the next album being somewhat of a "back to the roots/return to form/yadda yadda" attempt as a result.
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mjollnir
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:34 am 
 

A great album's magic is not just the songs but the energy in the studio when they were recording. The energy they had together when they were writing the songs. That's a one time deal and can never be repeated. Ecliptica is perfect. They should have left it alone.
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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:57 am 
 

mjollnir wrote:
A great album's magic is not just the songs but the energy in the studio when they were recording. The energy they had together when they were writing the songs. That's a one time deal and can never be repeated. Ecliptica is perfect. They should have left it alone.


Exactly. Imagine if Metallica tried to re-record Kill em All 15 years later. Unrelenting youthful energy can not be forced or repeated.
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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:01 pm 
 

Except Kill Em All would sound a hell of a lot worse with modern production and James' awful vocals, the New Ecliptica has both similar production and vocals to the original.

Im listening to Ecliptica right now and i do feel that atmosphere it has will probably be gone, just listen to how atmospheric "My Land" is.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:17 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
mjollnir wrote:
A great album's magic is not just the songs but the energy in the studio when they were recording. The energy they had together when they were writing the songs. That's a one time deal and can never be repeated. Ecliptica is perfect. They should have left it alone.


Exactly. Imagine if Metallica tried to re-record Kill em All 15 years later. Unrelenting youthful energy can not be forced or repeated.


Well, SA these days are a way better band than Metallica is compared to both bands' earlier material, so it's a bit different than that. Definitely agreed on the youthful energy part, but eh, I doubt this Ecliptica thing is gonna be seriously bad or anything (like a KEA re-recording probably would be.)
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:42 pm 
 

Like others here I revisited the original, and have to agree that in terms of atmosphere and execution it is a bit like, how much better could you make it? The album lulls a bit between the amazing 'Full Moon' and 'Destruction Preventer' tracks, but overall it's a corking record and Tony's performance on it has always been great in my opinion. Perhaps it's an ingenious marketing ploy to make us all realize what an untouchable album the debut is, and forever seal it's place in the canon...
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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:19 pm 
 

"Kingdom For A Heart" just sounded like a modernized version of the song. Not really better or worse for me, other than the quiet section before the buildup, which I didn't like in this version.

Most bands seem to really mess up these re-recordings, or they improve the production where the original may have been lacking, but this doesn't appear to do either. While Ecliptica is by far by favourite SA album, and the only one I listen to often, this release doesn't interest me because it sounds so similar. Will probably listen to another track or two before deciding though.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:18 pm 
 

Just to clear things up on the idea that this is somehow a cash grab or some half hearted attempt to "win back old fans" or something...

http://www.metalcrypt.com/pages/intervi ... ?intid=401

MetalMike: What was behind the decision to re-record that album?

Quote:
What was behind the decision to re-record that album?

Henrik: I don't know! Hahaha! Originally, our Japanese label said "we would really like you to re-record Ecliptica, it would be so great!" The initial talks were "what the fuck? Why? What's the point of doing that?" Those were my feelings. It was made once and is a picture of that time and there is no way it will sound remotely the same. It would be really confusing. Then we started to think about it and thought the songs are really great and me, Pasi and Elias didn't play on the album so I thought "I don't mind recording great songs, why not?"

Pasi: We play a lot of those songs every night and, for me, they are all written by Tony, like Pariah's Child, and I am just playing bass. No matter if they are 15 years old.

Henrik: We aren't trying to re-write history or change anything, we just thought "all right, why not give those songs another run and see what happens." People who love Ecliptica may hate the re-recorded album but we tried to stay true to the original and not do anything too weird.


I thought that re-recorded Kingdom for a Heart was pretty damn good actually. While the energy and spontaneity of the original can't be replicated now, the band and production sounds good and I really like the slow bit before the last chorus.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:41 pm 
 

Well, the Japanese label should be happy, then.

Yes, Emp, this is competently done and fairly true to the original. But it's still a self-cover that serves no (relevant) purpose. The current members who weren't in the band back then will be on the re-recording and the Japanese label (and maybe some weird collectors out there) will apparently be pleased, and... that's it. I mean, a re-recording has just about the same requirements as a cover version so as to not be useless: it must either surpass, transcend or magnify the original in a way (typically, when the original was lacking something) or it must offer a different approach and those doing the cover (or re-recording) must make the song "their own". Here, none of that takes place. The original isn't lacking anything in a significant way that the cover offers, and the cover is really really close to the original, so there's no added value whatsoever. It's just like any number of covers that are nicely done but neither improve the original song, nor turn it into something else. You give it one listen, say "yeah, good job, I guess", and go back to the original. Like (insert band here)'s "Kill the King" or "Communication Breakdown". Why bother? Because the Japanese label felt like it was needed? Hmm'okay.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:50 pm 
 

I agree with all that, but I was responding to the comments about it being a last-ditch effort to win back fans (i.e. implying the band is somehow desperate or dishonest about their intentions). And as far as pointless things go it's not bad. ;)
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Opus
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:53 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Just to clear things up on the idea that this is somehow a cash grab or some half hearted attempt to "win back old fans" or something...

That was a complete non-explanation if I ever saw one! If they at least said that the label offered them a truck load of cash, that would be a reason. If you're going to sell out, make sure you'll get paid at least.

"MetalMike: Why did you re-record that album?"
"Henrik: Because!"
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:09 pm 
 

@Emp: I see. Well, I don't know about that; I was under the impression that the band was still doing pretty well commercially in its Xanax/Prozac era, but I could be wrong. Do they need to go back to metal to move units?

Anyway, if I'm ever feeling like listening to SA's debut, but I'm tired of the awesome version for some reason, I'll always have the fine version to fall back on. That's something... I guess. =)

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Good point! haha
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Desperta_Ferro
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:12 pm 
 

Heh, I like it.

Even while most of you will hate it, with reason, I'm interested in how a mature band performs the same material now, with years of experience behind them. I love the enthusiastic atmosphere as much as you guys do, but eh

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Aydross
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:12 pm 
 

Is it me or the vocals sound way less convincing and without any emotion at all?
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mjollnir
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:18 pm 
 

Aydross wrote:
Is it me or the vocals sound way less convincing and without any emotion at all?


No, it's not you. As I said in my previous post, the energy in the studio when making an album can not be reproduced. Some things are better left alone.
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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:24 pm 
 

Album samples are up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctSMtiCkx9g

I think it sounds good, i like the subtle differences in the songs, but it's still never gonna be as good as the original
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:45 pm 
 

Sounds very interesting, and I'm especially looking forward to the new versions of "Full Moon" and "Replica," but...

WHAT IN THE NAME OF FUCK DID THEY DO TO "DESTRUCTION PREVENTER"?!?
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:54 pm 
 

It's interesting that they interpreted these songs that way, with the extremely up front vocals (where you can practically hear Tony's nosehairs) and the over-enunciated lyrics that are still delivered with that Finnish accent. The original's a classic, but this will be...curious I guess, haha.
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:51 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
you can practically hear Tony's nosehairs

Haha. Vintage Cinema Freaks.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:31 pm 
 

I have always wanted someone to use the word 'vintage' in correlation with my work. I can now cross that off my bucket list.
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:37 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:

WHAT IN THE NAME OF FUCK DID THEY DO TO "DESTRUCTION PREVENTER"?!?


Can't be much worse than what they already did to "Wolf and Raven" on the Silence reissue...
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:37 am 
 

:boo: :ah-ha:
So, there's a guy in the comments who made a list with a direct link to each song's sample, and it goes like this:
0:00 Blank File
1:33 My Land
3:09 8th Commandment
4:40 Replica
6:16 Fullmoon
7:48 Letter to Dana
9:24 UnOpened
10:57 Picturing the Past
12:33 Destruction Prevener
14:04 I Can't Dance´╗┐

And I go what the fucking fuck haha which song did they fuck up so badly that this guy mocks it in such a below-the-belt way? And then I click on the link. THEY ACTUALLY ADDED A COVER OF GENESIS' "I CAN'T DANCE". TO 'ECLIPTICA'. What the fuck does this have to do with this album...

Not only that, but they managed to make it faithful to neither Genesis' tongue-in-cheek, catchy-as-fuck pop-rock tune, nor their own over-the-top, super punchy yet melodic power metal debut album... As it is, it sounds like they're taking this taking-the-piss-and-rocking-it song all too seriously, between Tony's overzealous "see how much more technical I can sing now?" approach and the ridiculously sappy and overdone AOR/hard FM arrangements... A truly embarrassing piece of shit cover version in and of itself, on top of being completely out of place on this "revist" of Sonata's debut album.

But they apparently skipped "Mary-Lou", for some reason.

Edit: Didn't check out the other songs yet; I'll get to them later when I'm done laughing at them for that one.
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:44 am 
 

That cover of "I Can't Dance' was recorded during the Stones Grow Her Name sessions. Who knows what it's doing on this..
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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:45 pm 
 

I guess they skipped it because Mary-Lou was a originally a bonus track and not part of the "true" debut album - but then, if they wanted to stick to its original format so bad, why the hell did they throw that Genesis cover in the tracklist?

You know, contrary to many people, I'm not that vehemently opposed to bands rerecording their stuff after several years, but it seems that some bands really go out of their way to fuck everything up.
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