Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
nr655321
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:16 pm 
 

It's a question i've been asking myself for years. I used to think it was because metal is so evil, unmelodic, extreme, complicated and stuff but the more i become acquainted with other music genres the more the general rejection of metal becomes incomprehensible to me. Is metal any more evil than blues or many 20century classical music pieces? Is it less melodic than jazz? Is it really that much more relentless and dense than other music genres like electronic music, jazz or rock? Is its imagery less disturbing than rap music's cult of violence or pop's extreme sexualization?

Looking forward to comments.

Top
 Profile  
BURlAL
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:22 pm 
 

Because when the average person thinks of real metal they think of death and/or core type of stuff.

Top
 Profile  
DennisDemoniarch
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:55 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:25 pm 
 

Most people?
Hate metal?

This question is about as straight forward to answer as asking 'why are not more people smarter, building microwaves, or designing electrical cars?'

I will play along though.
Metal is full of obnoxious youth, built around a design of teenage angst and rebellion mostly. Well by the time most people get older they succumb to the lay of the land and get into that family, that mortgage, and that job... and music really is simply music. This is not a agenda or a movement to alter the course of history you know regardless of what a band thinks they are trying to 'spread'

Cattle mankind is a herd, and the ones herding the best all fall into a likeness of one another... heavy metal is a fringe interest on the outskirts of the internal inner circle of herd like mentality. That church concept, that is inner circle herd work at it's finest, the abrasive anti-church mentality of the metal creates a gap between the two.

Shit, could go on for hours pointing out fairly obvious and less obvious reasons why everything is the way it is... but maybe watch all the ancient aliens series first, observe the politics of the world for awhile... hang around da clubs and those scenes for a bit, learn about people and see why and discover why maybe you are not one of them yourself?

...or maybe we all are and we simply just like loud obnoxious music only with devilish artwork cause we think we are rebellious and real bad asses.

Top
 Profile  
Unity
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:42 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:26 pm 
 

Because they think it's all just "noise".
_________________
Stand rigid for the next battle,
Peace means reloading your guns

Top
 Profile  
JohnTheDrummer
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:31 pm 
 

Because it isn't about clubbin, partying like its your birthday even though it isn't your birthday, or doing a stupid dance that people will forget in a week.
_________________
Funeral Age
http://www.funeralage.com
http://www.funeralage.bandcamp.com
http://www.facebook.com/funeralageofficial

Dalla Nebbia
http://www.facebook.com/dallanebbiamusic
http://www.dallanebbia.bandcamp.com

Top
 Profile  
nr655321
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:33 pm 
 

I wasn't exactly talking about the average Joe and Jane who obviously don't actually care about music but people who in theory like "good" music. That's why i mentioned "respectable" genres like classical, jazz and so on. To me it just seems ridiculous to like one without at least acknowledging the quality of the other. And while the mainstream culture do hold in some esteem EVERY single musical genre metal is still either ridiculed, feared or consumed through the likes of Rammstein or Metallica.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2431
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:37 pm 
 

Because metal is an intentional counterculture. Metal fans don't like to admit it - they like to complain that metal isn't more popular, that it doesn't get more attention over (c)rap and techno dubstep music that was obviously just created by some guy pressing buttons on a computer - but they secretly enjoy how the genre is sectioned off from everything else, how it promotes an "us vs. them" mentality while simultaneously alienating the majority of the Western world's population through its denouncement of religion and glorification of murder and evil. Basically, because you asked for it.
_________________
Wilytank wrote:
Aeosphorus wrote:
there are post-black metal bands such as ...Sunn O.

When did we start calling Sunn O))) black metal and how soon can we stop?

Top
 Profile  
Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5138
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:09 pm 
 

I believe the premise that "most people hate metal" is incorrect.

A lot of older metal has become accepted into mainstream radio and rock - the majority of people under 60 are used to having some Black Sabbath alongside Led Zeppelin and other rock of the era. The "classic rock" radio format in the last ten years or so has included a lot of music from the 80s, including a fair amount of hard rock and metal. Mainstream radio features tracks from some of the most prominent metal bands including Ozzy, Sabbath, and Metallica, as well as hard rock which was once rejected for similar reasons as metal - Guns N Roses, AC/DC, Van Halen, even Motley Crue and Alice Cooper. The same music appears in television, video games, and other media. Look at how big Mastodon have become - they exploded with their association with the Adult Swim cartoons.

Hard rock and heavy metal are huge for sporting events too. Madison Square Garden plays Master of Puppets to get the crowd riled up every time the Rangers have a power play. I've noticed that the Washington Capitals and Dallas Stars have even mixed in some Slayer and Pantera at rowdier moments of games. The Yankees played Enter Sandman every night for the entrance of their beloved relief pitcher, Mariano Rivera.

Most people who have an ipod/computer full of songs they like will have some heavy metal from the same era as the rest of the music they like. Perhaps they're not really into it, perhaps it's mostly popular glam and mallcore that people liked as teenagers, but metal is and has been a part of popular culture since it started, albeit on the fringe, and with a much deeper die-hard culture. Most people know Crazy Train and Enter Sandman alongside Back in Black and Welcome to the Jungle. Metallica's s/t is one of the ten best selling albums in the US, with some hard rockers like Back in Black and Appetite for Destruction. Hard rock and heavy metal overlap with mainstream rock, and I think most people like some of it.

Aside from that overlap, there's a much deeper metal culture to us. Most people just aren't into it. A lot of people like some music, but aren't die-hards into one style or another. Nine out of ten people aren't really interested in the obsessions of fans of metal, jazz, or classical lovers. There's accessible stuff, then there's stuff that's more intense and requires a different state of mind, a different kind of appreciation for music. Someone who likes some Ozzy and Metallica would probably still not find the same type of appeal in the archetypal die-hard metal band, Slayer. Someone who was into Ozzfest probably won't be into death metal. When you get into a sub-subculture, there is bound to be both a relationship and a disconnect at multiple levels.
_________________
Recent writings: Dustbin of Demos: Vol VIII (Jan 19) - Epic heavy metal, bedroom black metal, and more!

Top
 Profile  
Indecency
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:13 pm 
 

-Because it's not accessible/repetitive
-Because it's extreme (speed, technicality, downtuning)
-Because it has harsh vocals
-Because it often has dark imagery

There. No essay needed. 4 simple points that explain what metal has that pop doesn't which would cause people not to like it.

Top
 Profile  
nr655321
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:17 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Because metal is an intentional counterculture. Metal fans don't like to admit it - they like to complain that metal isn't more popular, that it doesn't get more attention over (c)rap and techno dubstep music that was obviously just created by some guy pressing buttons on a computer - but they secretly enjoy how the genre is sectioned off from everything else, how it promotes an "us vs. them" mentality while simultaneously alienating the majority of the Western world's population through its denouncement of religion and glorification of murder and evil. Basically, because you asked for it.


The thing is that most of today's pop actively denounce both religion and morality through their acts. I mean forget about all the "Jesus is mah bro": just goddamn look at what they do and represent. Metal's deadly sin might be that it's pretty straightforward about what it's about. You pair that with some demanding music and voila.

Top
 Profile  
Foulchrist
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:20 pm 
 

BURlAL wrote:
Because when the average person thinks of real metal they think of death and/or core type of stuff.


:lol:

"So I was sitting around watching The X Factor the other day, and couldn't stop thinking about how much I hate you goddamn idiot metalheads - bunch of fucking posers! It's like your music is watered down, riffless bullshit that relies entirely on breakdowns and chugging on the low E string."

I only jest, in fact you're right about that at least in some cases. I've talked with grunge/90's rock oriented folk who've given me the impression that they thought "it's all the same".
_________________
Translucent skin stretched over an alien frame.

Top
 Profile  
Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 4219
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:20 pm 
 

I think that part of it is, most people aren't musicians, and seem to have trouble appreciating the instrumental proficiency that oftentimes exists in extreme music. I have a buddy who is big into grunge like Nirvana, Alice in Chains, and likes a lot of classic rock. I will show him some heavier stuff from time to time, and it seems like he has trouble separating the layers when he listens to it. They can't appreciate the riffs because they can't get past the vocals, for example. I guess a lot of us have been weaned on it for so long, we simply have an ear for it, and I know that when I listen to something for the first time I instinctively break it down in my head and try to appreciate the separate parts as well as the whole they constitute. I can't help it, even as a part-time musician. From this point of view some sort of "aural hypothermia" (thank me for that one) occurs when outsiders try to experience heavier avenues.
_________________
Passive-aggressive complainee wrote:
Communicating exclusively in gifs makes you the most annoying mod ever

Last.fm

Top
 Profile  
nr655321
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:24 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
...


Yeah, and that is something i don't get. Just yesterday i listened to some Led Zepp, Deep Purple and so on and honestly, spare for the production, that stuff is damn heavy. So how come people who like that kind of music can't stomach actual metal?

Top
 Profile  
Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19494
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:29 pm 
 

Because they grew up with those bands and not with metal. Or maybe they can stomach some metal but haven't been exposed to it yet because they aren't as into the culture as we are. Or maybe they just don't care about death or black metal very much, which is a whole other ballpark when you're talking about heaviness or extremity.

Most people don't hate metal; most people like (or at least don't hate) some big name acts and appreciate the genre in a vague, mainstreamish way...I guess some people hate it, but then, not everyone is always going to like everything.
_________________
Cinema Freaks latest reviews: V/H/S: Viral

Top
 Profile  
nr655321
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:35 pm 
 

Gotcha. Well, that is too bad because there is some pretty unbelievable musicianship in the metal scene. On paper i see no reason for a classical rock or a jazz fan not to be heads over heels mad in love with Immolation's "Here in after". Oh well...

Top
 Profile  
BURlAL
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:40 pm 
 

Indecency wrote:
-Because it's not accessible/repetitive
-Because it's extreme (speed, technicality, downtuning)
-Because it has harsh vocals
-Because it often has dark imagery

There. No essay needed. 4 simple points that explain what metal has that pop doesn't which would cause people not to like it.


So you are new to metal?

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2431
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:42 pm 
 

nr655321 wrote:
The thing is that most of today's pop actively denounce both religion and morality through their acts. I mean forget about all the "Jesus is mah bro": just goddamn look at what they do and represent. Metal's deadly sin might be that it's pretty straightforward about what it's about. You pair that with some demanding music and voila.

Oh, don't be dense. Sure, pop music can be decadent and promote hedonism, but you can't seriously look at Miley Cyrus swinging nude on a wrecking ball and say it's anti-religious on the same level as "I vomit on God's child" or "I killed Jesus just to see him bleed on his pulpis throne". Totally different levels of "denouncement of religion".
_________________
Wilytank wrote:
Aeosphorus wrote:
there are post-black metal bands such as ...Sunn O.

When did we start calling Sunn O))) black metal and how soon can we stop?


Last edited by MutantClannfear on Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3271
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:43 pm 
 

Diamhea wrote:
I think that part of it is, most people aren't musicians, and seem to have trouble appreciating the instrumental proficiency that oftentimes exists in extreme music. I have a buddy who is big into grunge like Nirvana, Alice in Chains, and likes a lot of classic rock. I will show him some heavier stuff from time to time, and it seems like he has trouble separating the layers when he listens to it. They can't appreciate the riffs because they can't get past the vocals, for example. I guess a lot of us have been weaned on it for so long, we simply have an ear for it, and I know that when I listen to something for the first time I instinctively break it down in my head and try to appreciate the separate parts as well as the whole they constitute. I can't help it, even as a part-time musician. From this point of view some sort of "aural hypothermia" (thank me for that one) occurs when outsiders try to experience heavier avenues.


This is part of it. I have tried to explain to some friends and relatives why exactly I like the more extreme sides of metal by letting them listen to some metal songs as they have often asked "why do you like this kind of music?" And a lot of them didn't seem to "hear" certain things when I pointing them out. Especially to my mother most of it seemed to sound like "just a wall of noise" She didn't use it as a derogatory term. She simply didn't hear the music in the same way I was hearing it. I was the same when I first experienced heavier music. Only for some reason I immediately took a liking to it.

My mother is actually starting to like some of the stuff I let her hear. For example she took a liking to the more ethereal and melodic parts of the new Fallujah album. She still can't get over the vocals though.
_________________
It creeps along in shadows on the hill.

Top
 Profile  
Indecency
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:47 pm 
 

BURlAL wrote:
So you are new to metal?


Unless 6 years is still part of the probationary period, then no.

Top
 Profile  
PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 6170
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:50 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
nr655321 wrote:
The thing is that most of today's pop actively denounce both religion and morality through their acts. I mean forget about all the "Jesus is mah bro": just goddamn look at what they do and represent. Metal's deadly sin might be that it's pretty straightforward about what it's about. You pair that with some demanding music and voila.

Oh, don't be dense. Sure, pop music can be decadent and promote hedonism, but you can't seriously look at Miley Cyrus swinging nude on a wrecking ball and say it's anti-religious on the same level as "I vomit on God's child" or "I killed Jesus just to see him bleed on his pulpis throne". Totally different levels of "denouncement of religion".


A lot of more underground rappers started embracing it lately. it's weird, it's like black people just discovered occult shit this year judging by the aesthetics of a lot of bandcampers. but, yeah, the level of vitriol found in metal is unmatched by almost anything remotely resembling mainstream music.
_________________
"The one who breathed this life-force into me was the Goddess of Doom, Christina Ricci"

https://bptst.bandcamp.com/- drone, meditation, ambient
last.fm

Top
 Profile  
BURlAL
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:54 pm 
 

Indecency wrote:
BURlAL wrote:
So you are new to metal?


Unless 6 years is still part of the probationary period, then no.


In all seriousness that is exactly what I would expect someone unfamiliar with metal to say. The vast majority of metal is no more than 1 or 2 of those things. The only genres I would say are guilty of your list is death/black, but that is ignoring trad/thrash/glam/doom/goth/industrial/folk/power/symphonic/etc....

Top
 Profile  
Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5138
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:58 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Because metal is an intentional counterculture. Metal fans don't like to admit it - they like to complain that metal isn't more popular, that it doesn't get more attention over (c)rap and techno dubstep music that was obviously just created by some guy pressing buttons on a computer - but they secretly enjoy how the genre is sectioned off from everything else, how it promotes an "us vs. them" mentality while simultaneously alienating the majority of the Western world's population through its denouncement of religion and glorification of murder and evil. Basically, because you asked for it.


I think this is a sort of midway between mainstream culture and metal die-hards. I'd roughly equate a hierarchy as such, with relation to metal:

-Popular music (includes some rock)
-Mainstream rock culture (includes some pop, some metal)
-Mainstream metal culture (includes some mainstream rock, some underground metal)
-Underground metal culture (includes some mainstream metal)
-Really underground metal culture (includes most underground metal)

Is everyone ready for stereotyping? I thought so!

Mainstream rock culture is the type of thing where people complain about Lady Gaga and will worship popular rock idols of past eras as well as whatever contemporary bands are presenting some sort of rock-culture-affirming culture. This stereotype probably also likes a bunch of other radio-friendly music from some less-sugary pop to classic rock to dad-blues to popular metal.

Mainstream metal culture worships rock idols like AC/DC and GnR alongside Metallica, Pantera, etc. Examples of this include every teenager who submits reviews for Metallica and Slayer on this site. Fuck off! This adds another level to the us vs. them mentality: people who think bands like Mastodon (or maybe Avenged Sevenfold) are the greatest rock bands of our time and everyone should really like them and they should get more respect, because they'll even get a song or two into mainstream rock radio rotation and video games or whatever. The 80s retro version is basically a mix of HM/HR/glam which often promotes music that's out of the scope of classic rock radio or whatever. Fans of this tend to also be into other niches of music that we probably dismiss as hipster shit like indie rock, underground hip hop, and electronic, while hating the most popular of it for being pop. This group views underground metal culture is crazy/goofy/elitist/whatever and despises most modern pop music.

Underground metal culture is the biggest generalization here. Getting into underground metal requires reading obscure publications like Vice and Pitchfork before listening to obscure depressive black metal/emo on YouTube. Maybe it's people who mostly get their music from non-mainstream but still large outlets like Century Media, Nuclear Blast, Metal Blade, and Season of Mist. Here, you get people who find a wealth of music entirely independent from mainstream culture - you'll rarely see something you like on TV or radio, but there are plenty of outlets to find music. This is what most younger, die-hard fans fall into. There's still some relation to mainstream rock - perhaps through indie rock/metal hybrids, or underground metalcore vs. mainstream metalcore. This is a sub-sub-subculture where you still get the "us vs. them" mentality, be it unironically or hipster-ironically. The archetype of this level is someone who discovers metal on reddit and comes here to complain about us being elitists for not including BTBAM or whatever. They probably also still pride themselves on listening to whatever indie rock/rap/electronica they listened to in high school/college because they're "open-minded, not elitist."

Really underground metal culture is the refuge of bookish nerds who have either stopped caring about or made a habit of bashing Vice/Pitchfork/Revolver/etc as irrelevant and wrong. There's a certain point of obsession over metal where someone simply becomes focused on the pursuit of their favored types of metal that either disregard casual fans entirely or actively posture themselves as more kvlt than casual fans, or maybe a bit of each. This level of die-hard obsession is where a person will be tired of trying to expose others to their more underground version of metal, and just avoid talking about their niche, nerdy obsession with 80s USPM or similar niche. This stereotype likely has some interest in non-metal, but really doesn't care about the culture of it, like college indie rock and stuff featured in Pitchfork. This is where the "us vs. them" mentality sort of ends and becomes one-sided recidivism and get-off-my-lawn elitism. In the last decade, this is where some really niche metal cultures have carved out their own territories which remain fairly inaccessible to casual fans who care about the culture on a deep level, with a disdain for accessibility and softening-up. Yeah, I'm being awfully hard on myself and my buddies, but there's a reason us dorks make fun of Crick's pop obsession and the MA hipsters' hipsterness.

That's the core of alienation that created metal - a deep circle-jerk of intolerant extremity that was disconnected from the mainstream. That's why "people hate metal" and "metal hates people." It's a multi-layered sub-subculture with overlaps, victim complexes, aggressive elitism, and antisocial behavior towards those one subculture level away.
_________________
Recent writings: Dustbin of Demos: Vol VIII (Jan 19) - Epic heavy metal, bedroom black metal, and more!

Top
 Profile  
Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19494
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:59 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
This is part of it. I have tried to explain to some friends and relatives why exactly I like the more extreme sides of metal by letting them listen to some metal songs as they have often asked "why do you like this kind of music?" And a lot of them didn't seem to "hear" certain things when I pointing them out. Especially to my mother most of it seemed to sound like "just a wall of noise" She didn't use it as a derogatory term. She simply didn't hear the music in the same way I was hearing it. I was the same when I first experienced heavier music. Only for some reason I immediately took a liking to it.

My mother is actually starting to like some of the stuff I let her hear. For example she took a liking to the more ethereal and melodic parts of the new Fallujah album. She still can't get over the vocals though.


Well, a lot of extreme metal, despite its instrumental proficiency, is intentionally sounding like a "wall of sound," mixed in a very chaotic way to accentuate the evil atmosphere and vibe of the music. Not all of it is, and some people will listen even to the most clean sounding bands and still think it sucks, but you can't pretend the whole "it just sounds like noise" argument is completely confusing to you.
_________________
Cinema Freaks latest reviews: V/H/S: Viral

Top
 Profile  
Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5138
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:07 pm 
 

Every time I learn more about playing an instrument or engineering a recording, I notice more nuances and aspects of great metal. The same thing often happens with professionally-produced pop music, the difference being that nearly everything in pop music is done to support a leading vocal track, while metal has layers and nuances intended to shape an unconventional listening experience.
_________________
Recent writings: Dustbin of Demos: Vol VIII (Jan 19) - Epic heavy metal, bedroom black metal, and more!

Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3271
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:16 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
henkkjelle wrote:
This is part of it. I have tried to explain to some friends and relatives why exactly I like the more extreme sides of metal by letting them listen to some metal songs as they have often asked "why do you like this kind of music?" And a lot of them didn't seem to "hear" certain things when I pointing them out. Especially to my mother most of it seemed to sound like "just a wall of noise" She didn't use it as a derogatory term. She simply didn't hear the music in the same way I was hearing it. I was the same when I first experienced heavier music. Only for some reason I immediately took a liking to it.

My mother is actually starting to like some of the stuff I let her hear. For example she took a liking to the more ethereal and melodic parts of the new Fallujah album. She still can't get over the vocals though.


Well, a lot of extreme metal, despite its instrumental proficiency, is intentionally sounding like a "wall of sound," mixed in a very chaotic way to accentuate the evil atmosphere and vibe of the music. Not all of it is, and some people will listen even to the most clean sounding bands and still think it sucks, but you can't pretend the whole "it just sounds like noise" argument is completely confusing to you.


It's not confusing to me, I understand it perfectly fine. Did I say something to let you think that? Even if the music is intentionally made to be like a wall of sound there are still things that we as metal listeners pick up. A certain guitar riff, an accent, interplay between the instruments or whatever. And those are the things a lot of people don't pick up as they aren't attuned to the basic forms of extreme metal. I know I couldn't dissect the simplest blast beat/tremolo riff combo when I was first exposed to black metal. That's what I was getting at.
_________________
It creeps along in shadows on the hill.


Last edited by henkkjelle on Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 968
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:17 pm 
 

Some interesting thoughts and comments, thought this coulda been a troll thread, but the OP presented some valid points. In my experience most people immediately associate more extreme metal with "the growling, barking voice that you can't understand" I think the vocals/voice/lyrics are the least important thing in the more underground forms of metal, although you grow to appreciate and enjoy them more and more over the years. Some people just either can't get past the voice to focus on the music, or they just don't want to attempt to find out what they are missing. I've found that if you are selective with the bands and songs you introduce people who are "anti-metal" to they usually find that they are pleasantly surprised with how much they enjoy it. For black metal purposes I go with something like Drudkh or even Sargeist or mid-era Immortal. I've really never found anyone who can say they don't enjoy and understand Drudkh especially.
_________________
I come from a land
Of systematic erasure of optimism and positiveness
You don't want to encourage me

http://www.last.fm/user/slowgod666 add me if you wish.

Top
 Profile  
maladie
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:42 am
Posts: 64
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:17 pm 
 

nr655321 wrote:
Gotcha. Well, that is too bad because there is some pretty unbelievable musicianship in the metal scene. On paper i see no reason for a classical rock or a jazz fan not to be heads over heels mad in love with Immolation's "Here in after". Oh well...

Sure there's a quite a few really good musicians in metal, but there's very few composers. People into more serious classical music often get bored of for example the rather repetitive forms, structures and harmony used in metal. The genres are based on two completely different things, which doesn't mean you can't like both (I love metal, yet I mostly work with contemporary classical and jazz for example), but they're not necessarily compatible. As for jazz players, the harmonic changes in metal are very very tame compared to a lot of jazz, and quite honestly most people come into jazz as it's a musician's type of music. It's all about jamming around chord changes, etc.

I'd also add that the whole "rebellion" thing of metal turns off quite a lot of people into more so-called serious music, and it's really completely understandable.

EDIT: Also, metal is timbrally much more limited than contemporary classical and jazz in most respects. Sure, some bands are pushing the boundaries but it's still generally the same.
_________________
Ars Arcanum Productions: for all your mixing, arranging, composition and audio programming needs.
https://www.facebook.com/arsarcanumprod

Top
 Profile  
Thiestru
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 1195
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:30 pm 
 

That was an excellent post, Zodi. Well done!

I myself don't have nearly as good of an answer; in fact I don't have a reason at all. But I wonder if it's less that people don't like metal and more that they're just not interested in it. Metal doesn't put itself out there to nearly the same extent that pop, hip-hop, and even modern country (read: twang pop) do, so it's not on people's minds. At least it's not any more, since all the religious hysteria of the 80s went away. Metalheads wear the T-shirts and go to the concerts and such, but for the most part we stick to ourselves and don't make a fuss. Of course, you have the incidents of the early Norwegian black metal scene that have been discussed to death, but the reason they're so talked about is partly because those sorts of crimes were - and still are - so unusual for this subculture. But when you have that kind of blip on the public radar, and then metal fades into the background again, people are only going to remember it in a vague, negative way. 'Oh, metal, those kids are devil-worshippers and murderers, aren't they?'

This is mere speculation on my part, of course; I could be way off the mark. So I'll just repeat what I said earlier: I think people just aren't exposed to it, and don't think to seek it out. Maybe if more people heard metal, they'd like it, you know? I've turned people who aren't metalheads at all onto certain metal bands, just by showing them. That's the key. You can't like something you don't know exists.
_________________
Zodijackyl wrote:
Anything but undying, eternal praise for Awaken the Guardian is completely wrong and a disgrace to you, your band, family, and Facebook friends list.


If you're interested in hearing my music, it can be found here: http://thiestru.bandcamp.com. Wassail.

Top
 Profile  
RapeTheDead
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 478
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:40 pm 
 

Zodi should write/direct a documentary on modern metal culture or something, goddamn. He's like what everyone wishes Sam Dunn was.

People don't like metal because it's not what they're used to, pretty much. If, as a child, all the music you heard on the radio/tv/through your parents/friends/whatever was metallic in nature, pop, rock, jazz etc. would likely sound strange and revolting to your ears because they'd be radically different from your idea of "normal music". Metal in general (and extreme metal especially) is one of the more recently created forms of music and as such it's still going to take some time to become an integral staple in our culture the same way rock has. Some might even say it's well on its way there at this point. We've all seen the History channel commercial with Suffocation, right?

Another theory I have specifically pertains to vocals. In most music, the vocal performance is the human element and serves the purpose of grounding the music and guiding the listener's attention and connecting it with the listener's own experiences through lyrics. Metal vocals, on the other hand, serve to intentionally alienate the listener from this human element as much as possible. This is easily seen in harsh vocals, where the lyrics are not only much harder to decipher but the abrasive tone of the vocals themselves is offputting for many, but can also be seen in the presence of falsettos in trad/power/speed metal bands of the 80s. I've often maintained that someone like King Diamond is a lot harder to get into than a given death/black metal vocalist, and that's because KD and extreme metal vocalists are attempting to do the same thing--convince you they're not entirely human. Some people understand the nature of these performances right away, some are initially sort of put off and intrigued by the concept only to realize what makes it special through subsequent listens (I think most of us here would fall under this banner) and then there's the majority of people who aren't going to understand that the intent is to make you feel strange and uncomfortable at first, because all they've known for their formative years is the pleasantry of popular, consonant, "safe" music.

(that last part probably sounded elitist as fuck but it's really just another way of saying we all wish to obtain different feelings from music, and most people just appreciate music fairly casually and like when it makes them feel nice instead of having an active desire to be uncomfortably transported to a whole new world through an album. It's not "better" to like music in one way or the other, but there certainly are methods of music appreciation that are much more common.)
_________________
UnderTheGuillotine wrote:
Smoke weed.

Top
 Profile  
Samoroth
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:59 pm
Posts: 246
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:14 pm 
 

Lot's of things I disagree with here. Some of you said that MOST people at least enjoy some metal. Fact is, most people don't. Most people are very unaware of metal in general. Perhaps they have heard of Metallica, and most likely they only know Nothing Else Matters, perhaps some have heard of Slipknot and most likely ridicule it and actually think it's metal and that metal sounds like that. People hate/dislike it because they don't understand it. They dislike it because the music they listen is the stellar opposite of what metal is: top 40 whatever junk or some third rate rap (instead of listening to the good stuf like Wu-Tang, Doppelgangaz etc).

It's also funny how unaware 'the outside world' is of metal. For example, there are some larger black metal events here taking place in nice venues in the middle of nice cities. Outside the venue they can see lot's of men and women with long hair, leather jackets, dark clothes, and yet they have not the faintest clue about what is going on. Here in the Netherlands, lot's of metalheads are mistaken for goth, because of black clothing for example. Those people who accuse metalheads of being goth, obviously do not even know what goth is and cannot name a single gothic rock band for example. They will most likely think Within Temptation is goth music.

I am in fact very happy that metal is not more popular. I don't want it to get radio airtime, I don't want it to be on television, I don't want it to dominate the charts. It's good the way it is, consisting of a dedicate core of people organizing events and gigs throughout the country. Only thing missing probably are more bars for metalheads to hang out, though I am lucky to live near a great heavy metal bar amidst a fairly good musical climate.

Top
 Profile  
Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19494
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:36 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
It's not confusing to me, I understand it perfectly fine. Did I say something to let you think that? Even if the music is intentionally made to be like a wall of sound there are still things that we as metal listeners pick up. A certain guitar riff, an accent, interplay between the instruments or whatever. And those are the things a lot of people don't pick up as they aren't attuned to the basic forms of extreme metal. I know I couldn't dissect the simplest blast beat/tremolo riff combo when I was first exposed to black metal. That's what I was getting at.


I dunno, probably not about you specifically, but I just find it a bit silly when certain people get indignant about that stuff. Like, "why can't people appreciate the technical nuance and instrumental jazz-style complexity in this tech death album that sounds nothing like anything they've ever heard?" You and Zodi are right - it's just about training one's ears to hear the subtleties of it all. I just think a lot of newbies get overzealous in trying to act like pariahs about the whole issue, lamenting that nobody understands the music, etc.
_________________
Cinema Freaks latest reviews: V/H/S: Viral

Top
 Profile  
Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1781
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:37 pm 
 

I don't have much that hasn't been said better by others. My (grossly oversimplified) take on it is that metal attacks society's sacred cows through a complex aural experience. In other words, metal (lyrically and image wise) is a direct affront to the average person's most deep seated beliefs and asks them to think about the things they'd rather not be reminded of, while on the other hand (musically), presenting it in a way that demands a lot from the listener due to complexity, atmosphere, etc.

Thoughts on vocals: most people deem them inhuman and non relatable, while to me it sounds like the exact opposite. Metal's vocals (harsh and cleans) are inherently so cathartic and expressive, while so often I find that vocals in other genres don't feel quite as genuine and passionate as metal's vocals, so I don't feel like the music is quite as honest (lots of exceptions to this, but it's generally accurate for me).

Secondly, metal's vocals add to music and with many other more popular genres it is the other way around. More radio friendly music is a singer(s) and music in the background, metal is often times instruments with vocals as support. Many people fail to understand that the instruments are the main idea because it asks them to approach music in a way they perceive as "backwards" (seriously, I got this reaction once when I asked someone to do this).

Considering that and what many other have said here before me, I can imagine why it's such a difficult hurdle to overcome, one that I never experienced because it was love at first listen for metal and me. Oh, well...
_________________
last fm
"Beauty is the substance distilled
The rest of what you could not hold
You'd not take the splendor instilled
And I just couldn’t ask for more"

Top
 Profile  
Idolsofchagrin
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:02 am
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:27 pm 
 

Along with all the things people have already said, I think it's a few things.

First of all, I think most people THINK they hate metal without even recognizing the variety of metal there is out there.

Find me someone who is TRULY passionate about any style of music and enjoys not only listening to it but analyzing it and I'm going to guess that there's probably a 75% or better chance that there is SOME metal band out there they'd enjoy listening to that they just don't know of yet because of how many genres have been incorporated into metal.


The thing is, I think most people are not TRULY passionate about any style of music, nor are they usually passionate about any style of art either.

Most people seem to like music they can ignore, and although there is certainly plenty of metal that can be good background music while doing other things, a lot of it is not music you can simply ignore.

Also, most people tend not to like complexity in music or art in general IMO.

Think about what kind of books are popular for example.

I mean, I don't really know specifically what the average person reads these days, I must admit, but every now and then when I'm at a drug store I'll glance at the cover of a stupid trashy romance novel that is being sold and wonder why people like it.

Most people tend to enjoy vapid crap, and while not all metal heads are deep thinkers, most do tend to shy away from things that are general bland and vapid.

To give a REALLY broad generalization with examples of other types of art I like, in general I enjoy looking at surrealist paintings and I like 18th century gothic novels.

Most people don't like those things either, because they are a bit too "dark" for them, require some small amount of thought to get into, and are generally less accessible and have a degree of complexity.

I'd say that IMO the reasons a lot of people don't like metal are somewhat similar to why they can't enjoy looking at surrealist art and reading gothic novels and would rather read about celebrities and pin up pictures of flowers in their houses.

Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3271
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:35 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I dunno, probably not about you specifically, but I just find it a bit silly when certain people get indignant about that stuff. Like, "why can't people appreciate the technical nuance and instrumental jazz-style complexity in this tech death album that sounds nothing like anything they've ever heard?" You and Zodi are right - it's just about training one's ears to hear the subtleties of it all. I just think a lot of newbies get overzealous in trying to act like pariahs about the whole issue, lamenting that nobody understands the music, etc.


Certainly. I was a bit like that in the past. Distaste towards all sorts of rock and pop music, not even wanting to listen to anything with clean vocals and somehow thinking that my music taste was in some way "higher". People are allowed to be a little bit silly at the age of 16. Establishing a personality yadayada.
_________________
It creeps along in shadows on the hill.

Top
 Profile  
volutetheswarth
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 1561
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:02 pm 
 

It basically comes down to little to no exposure, and of what they're exposed of is of the most extreme variety. I personally disliked death metal as a little kid but once I grew into bands like Metallica/Iron Maiden/Slayer my acceptance of metal in general became apparent. Generally speaking most people need to be exposed in the right order to fully understand and actively listen to metal, I think instrumental and clean singing is a perfect entry point that unfortunately very few start with.

Top
 Profile  
teh_Foxx0rz
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:38 am
Posts: 411
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:11 pm 
 

Something which has been touched on but I don't think really brought up entirely, for people with at least a fair passing impression of metal (beyond metalcore or whatever), is also just how over-the-top metal doesn't mind or is eager to be.

Metal's not afraid to be self-indulgent in all three areas of songwriting - music, lyrics, and image. Usually to my impression most other genres tend to focus on one or two of those things - rap/hip-hop can be indulgent lyrically and image-wise, but not musically since the lyrics or rhythm are meant to be the focus; EDM might be self-indulgent musically and image-wise, but it's more about sounding fun than having serious lyrics, and jazz is often completely indulgent musically and possibly lyrically but to my understanding they rarely focus on much of an image - but metal is not averse to making really exaggerated lyrics, then having the musical composition be more significant than that (in structure, sound or bravado), and on top of that, looking like a weirdo. Not necessarily to huge extremes in all three, but even Manowar like to show off on the guitar (or more accurately bass, Joey!), while screaming about Norse gods and posers like Adams wants nothing more than to hear his own voice. Nothing of course need be said on how they look.

I'm exaggerating, but of course not by much - metal is unafraid of being silly, whether you're Manowar or Immortal, and on top of the general "noisier than some styles, and simpler than others" aesthetics that tend to make people shy away out of concern or impressions of banality, a lot of (generalised) groups to my perception are just turned off by well, and here's my point, how juvenile the whole genre can come across to some. Now, of course, they could do a lot better for themselves than getting hung up on looking mature, but the fact remains that there are of course people like that, and more importantly that metal is very hard to take seriously by its very culture. Even some more "silly" genres like EDM are less about the personal indulgence and more about a social undulgence; people are silly at parties (or raves), and that's the context that that music is centred around (being electronic dance music!). And people can appreciate the silly aspect as being part of something else a little easier than they can metal's high tendency to (at least appear) silly just because it's possible to.

Perhaps this is why styles like death metal and thrash metal ended up (to my perception) a little more mainstream than the other styles (besides "classic rock" crossovers perhaps); as well as the connection to punk and hardcore which I'm sure helps, the "silliness" they might have is more focused and linked to something else; thrash has the emphasis on aggression, and death metal is usually just like any horror movie, and those are things which have more traction in the mainstream than say shrieking about His Dark Master or howling elegies to knights and dragons (and the "street issues" of a lot of '80s heavy and speed metal already has punk or even rap in a modern context to relate to).


Metal is of course a genre centred around the individual; it's over the top and not for the sake of parties, yet for the individual to enjoy alone while not purely reflective or for technical expression. At the very least a lot of the mainstream is much more socially orientated than metal tends to be; metal is for those weirdos who want to do their own thing. And from the inverse position of introspection or intellectual enjoyment (say, jazz or classical stuff), it's too rowdy or just noisy to relax to (the comments on timbral limitation further up the thread), and far too focused on the façade.

I suppose ultimately, while it's clichéd to say "<x> celebrates the individual", metal does do so, with more fervour and passion than even other individualistic styles and subcultures. You also don't need others to help you enjoy it, but the more the merrier nonetheless, and thus I suppose it can also be a little harder for people unfamiliar with it to pinpoint exactly what it's "for"; it doesn't have a specific cultural context to be enjoyed in (beyond the obvious driving/biking niche of the more rocky styles).


Empyreal wrote:
I dunno, probably not about you specifically, but I just find it a bit silly when certain people get indignant about that stuff. Like, "why can't people appreciate the technical nuance and instrumental jazz-style complexity in this tech death album that sounds nothing like anything they've ever heard?" You and Zodi are right - it's just about training one's ears to hear the subtleties of it all. I just think a lot of newbies get overzealous in trying to act like pariahs about the whole issue, lamenting that nobody understands the music, etc.

I know I've been experiencing this. I'd get turned off to any harsh vocals initially - gradually through dipping myself in the shallow end with bands such as Arkona who did both I grew an ear to either appreciate or just look past harsher vocals. I'm still picky with them and am more often than not indifferent, but I understand them now.
Or more extremely, a lot of NWOBHM (specifically Demon I certainly remember) sounded really weird to me at first and I didn't understand it, since it was a lot emptier, and based on '70s hard rock which I'd not experienced yet.
I'm visualising this kind of like an abstract "tech tree" of musical understanding - some things you have to hear the simpler versions of, or in something else you like, before you can really take in what the more distilled or extreme utilisations of that thing are doing and appreciate those things on their own terms. Hence the value of "entry-level bands", however much stick bands labelled as such tend to receive.

Top
 Profile  
Abethedemon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:56 pm
Posts: 105
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:51 pm 
 

I would say that it's too heavy for them. Even the less heavy stuff, power metal, traditional metal what have you is played at insane speeds and has distorted guitars. The lyrics are also either too grim or fantastical for the average human bean, especially the stereotypical depiction of metal as being simply grunts and growls. It's an acquired taste.

Top
 Profile  
Secular Prayer
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:28 pm
Posts: 66
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:16 pm 
 

Most of the world has no idea it exists. There`s virtually zero presence of it on TV, most stores only have the most popular stuff like Metallica and Slipknot, there are very few FM stations dedicated to playing metal in anyway beyond a local college station, maybe a rock station has a specialty show on the weekend and beyond Ozzy and Bret Michaels, there are no real metal celebrities, at least none who have the household recognition of the biggest country and pop stars, and all this is integral to who the public deems as big and worthy of their attention.

When people come across metal, the simple fact is they don`t know how to listen to metal. Everything about metal demands your attention. Riffs, drums, vocals, solos (if there are any), all require 100% focus, and most people aren`t used to that. Pop and Country live or die by their choruses, despite the greater themes that can exist within both genre`s best tracks, so that`s what most fans of those genres look for most. Hip-hop is primarily about the lyrics and how the rapper`s flow matches the beat. The beat is still important, but without a skilled persona, it`s just that: a beat, but many who call themselves hip-hop fans can easily forgo lyrics as long as the beat`s good.
Metal has plenty of choruses, but metal is about the journey, and most people who listen to music aren`t ready to take a journey.

Top
 Profile  
iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 8139
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:23 pm 
 

nr655321 wrote:
Is metal any more evil than blues


Yes.

I'll add to my post since this is apparently "worthwhile discussion." So, why does everyone even care? Metal is both inaccessible and willfully uncaring about its acceptance by the broader public, so I'm not really sure I understand the value of even considering why it is that people may or may not hate it. "Why does the public hate tabletop gaming?" "Why does the public hate 70's Italian zombie movies?" Why does this matter to anyone except people who are extremely insecure about the things that they like?
_________________
Exigence wrote:
I love hearing Six Feet Under's covers of classic songs.


COMA VOID | GLOAMING | FAUSTIAN ORBS

Top
 Profile  
Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5138
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:24 pm 
 

Secular Prayer wrote:
Most of the world has no idea it exists. There`s virtually zero presence of it on TV, most stores only have the most popular stuff like Metallica and Slipknot, there are very few FM stations dedicated to playing metal in anyway beyond a local college station, maybe a rock station has a specialty show on the weekend and beyond Ozzy and Bret Michaels, there are no real metal celebrities, at least none who have the household recognition of the biggest country and pop stars, and all this is integral to who the public deems as big and worthy of their attention.


Who the hell *doesn't* know that metal exists? While music presence on television has faded greatly over the last ten years, the two major music channels have had metal shows: VH1's "That Metal Show" and MTV's "Headbanger's Ball."

Suffocation History Channel commercial, [urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHdpzE0_rj0]Rachel Maddow's death metal segment[/url], CBS' crime drama Elementary featuring a scene based around Carcass and Goatwhore with a reference to Death, good old Beavis and Butthead featuring Napalm Death and Death, NBC's political drama The West Wing mocking Graveland, and countless others. Death metal is acknowledged, even joked about on mainstream television occasionaly. Of course, that's not what most people tune in to hear full-time, but it is easily found if you look for it.

Then there's the case of The Osbournes, a very popular television show about the most famous heavy metal singer which also served heavily to promote his namesake festival tour, which included everything from mainstream rock and mallcore to thrash legends Slayer and Voivod to other heavy metal legends Judas Priest and Iron Maiden to the lame black metal of Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir as well as tons and tons of melodeath/metalcore, all during that four year run of Ozzy's televison show. A quick Google search tells me that the second season premiere of the show had 6.6 million viewers, making it the highest-rated show in MTV history.

A lot of huge chain stores also carry plenty of metal music. I've never seen a mall that didn't have an FYE or Best Buy which carried a sizable selection of metal, from mainstream to black/death. Around here, those stores probably have a thousand metal CDs in stock. Sure, you won't find much at Target or Walmart, but I haven't had a problem finding metal in stores for over 15 years.

The one point you are correct on is that there are no dedicated metal radio stations. However, a decent amount of more popular metal makes its way into radio. Hard rock isn't even a radio format, but "classic rock" stations still play a fair amount of Ozzy, Sabbath, Metallica, Motley Crue, and better known metal bands, alternative rock radio mixed Eminem with mallcore like Korn, groove metal like Pantera, and warmed-over thrash bands like Metallica and Slayer. Modern alt rock radio mixes in some metalcore like All That Remains and Killswitch Engage. Still, metal simply isn't that friendly to radio, so it doesn't get played. It's not like any form of mainstream culture actively hides metal.

All of this is out there in the open. Some of the most iconic songs are by monumentally famous hard rock bands like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, and Guns n Roses, and Iron Man/Paranoid, Crazy Train, and Enter Sandman are up there with them. Those are a huge part of mainstream culture, and anyone with any interest in pursuing them has plenty of outlets to find the giant crossover between mainstream culture and heavy metal. From there, there are simply layers of pursuing overlaps in subcultures when you go from mainstream rock to 80s metal to groove/thrash metal to death metal to black metal. People who are interested can find it. Most people don't hate it, they simply don't care about it because they have little interest in what more extreme metal offers.
_________________
Recent writings: Dustbin of Demos: Vol VIII (Jan 19) - Epic heavy metal, bedroom black metal, and more!

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bronxeel, Idolsofchagrin, LefterisK, Riffs, tomcat_ha and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group