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Eurnonymous
Streetcleaner

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:46 am
Posts: 3103
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:17 pm 
 

i think one reason this album is overshadowed by many of its Norwegian contemporaries mentioned thus far is because it was released later...by this point, black metal had become trendy and overdone, the old scene had died, and everyone had already heard stuff like Under A Funeral Moon, Nightside Eclipse, Pure Holocaust, DMDS, which is tough to compete with in such a notable scene. also Ulver weren't as active (if at all) in all the hysteria surrounding the early Norwegian scene, so perhaps they were also neglected a bit more when it came to their music or status in the scene.

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Desolator
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:47 am
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:20 pm 
 

Ulver are great and that's it. Vargnatt + the Trilogie and some of the later stuff is great.
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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4660
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:22 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Catachthonian wrote:
I hardly ever listen to metal nowadays, anyway.

Fag.

C'mon, fagsafeman, you can do better.

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kampfplatz666
Sturmbannführer Borat

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 509
Location: Vatican City
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:31 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
Catachthonian wrote:
I hardly ever listen to metal nowadays, anyway.

Fag.

C'mon, fagsafeman, you can do better.

:lol: I don't know why today I found this so damn funny...
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peterlang
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 231
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:44 pm 
 

Nattens Madrigal is a pretty solid album, probably one of my BM favourites, though making toplists is kinda pointless. I really love the vocals, there's a lot of pure hatred in them, but the album itself is a bit stale as a whole, I mean the songs are just way too similar, there should be at least a litte more change in them. I'd say even some of Ulver's other albums tops it. Bergtatt is one of those in my opinion, it's just more complex and for me it has more passion.

Anyways, Madrigal is good for times when I'm pissed of or disturbed, and I always give it a listen when it's full moon. (With many more BM albums by the way - full moon is really black metal... :) )

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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:56 pm 
 

I liked the album. I thought it evened out their experimentation up till then.

They released a folk/black metal album. Then a totally folk album. It only made sense to release a totally black metal album.
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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 4101
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:19 pm 
 

I have to second the lauds of the melodic strength of Nattens Madrigal. This album really does capture a perfect philosophy on the riff. Everything feels wonderfully interlocked, the harmonies are always dynamic, and the melodies are always lovely, yet simultaneously filled with a fantastic feeling of strength and passion. It's got a romantic aura to it that sets it apart. Also interesting to note is how subtly and effectively Ulver's folk influence is incorporated into the sound without it ever sounding like "folk metal." It dwells far below the surface, in the heart of the music, suffusing the whole with a warm and bard-like mood that never counteracts the lupine intensity so necessary to the concept. It's a fantastic balance, I think it's perfect.

If what you're looking for is exclusively cold, grim, hateful, filthy black metal, of course this isn't going to cover you, but for those yearning for more poignant and romantic sounds, it's hard to beat this.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10119
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:33 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
I have to second the lauds of the melodic strength of Nattens Madrigal. This album really does capture a perfect philosophy on the riff. Everything feels wonderfully interlocked, the harmonies are always dynamic, and the melodies are always lovely, yet simultaneously filled with a fantastic feeling of strength and passion. It's got a romantic aura to it that sets it apart. Also interesting to note is how subtly and effectively Ulver's folk influence is incorporated into the sound without it ever sounding like "folk metal." It dwells far below the surface, in the heart of the music, suffusing the whole with a warm and bard-like mood that never counteracts the lupine intensity so necessary to the concept. It's a fantastic balance, I think it's perfect.

If what you're looking for is exclusively cold, grim, hateful, filthy black metal, of course this isn't going to cover you, but for those yearning for more poignant and romantic sounds, it's hard to beat this.


Well said..I think it's very easy to tell that this is the same band taht recorded Bergtatt, and I think which album is more complex is certainly up for debate. THere is a variety among the songs as well..one just has to listen to a contrast between, say, the first song and it's dancing folk harmonies, then the second and its more aggressive power-chord riffing (this is the one that made one person at the time of the album's release tell me that Ulver had started to sound like Morbid Angel).

Perhaps the drumming is a little one-dimensional, but Darkthrone certainly set a precedent for this with Transilvanian Hunger, and Garm pretty much stated that Madrigal was meant to pay tribute to Darkthrone and other such early Norwegian bands, while managing to sound not very much like them in other aspects.
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Crypt666
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:32 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:53 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Crypt666 wrote:
For me it was not good enough but I understand it appeals to people who need their music a little bit less strong and complicated. I'd pick an early Marduk, Bathory or Immortal record. Those were the greatest BM bands ever lived (shame they all sold out so hard).


What exactly do you mean by "strong and complicated"? Are we talking musicianship, emotional depth, song structures...I don't really see how that Ulver album loses out in any of those categories, though I'll certainly agree that Bathory released more worthwhile material, and those other two bands were quite good for a little while as well.


Well not strong because it sounds so depressive and I think they're pretty slow for black metal, you just don't feel any power here, more wining. Not complicated because instrumental it's constant annoying repetition. I think it's a good album though, really, but I'll never listen in myself. 1349, Urgehal and Satyricon. 3 more great bands with an excellent early discography that are so much better then this on all fronts. But I like it faster, satanic and more diverse/complicated.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10119
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:02 pm 
 

Crypt666 wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
Crypt666 wrote:
For me it was not good enough but I understand it appeals to people who need their music a little bit less strong and complicated. I'd pick an early Marduk, Bathory or Immortal record. Those were the greatest BM bands ever lived (shame they all sold out so hard).


What exactly do you mean by "strong and complicated"? Are we talking musicianship, emotional depth, song structures...I don't really see how that Ulver album loses out in any of those categories, though I'll certainly agree that Bathory released more worthwhile material, and those other two bands were quite good for a little while as well.


Well not strong because it sounds so depressive and I think they're pretty slow for black metal, you just don't feel any power here, more wining. Not complicated because instrumental it's constant annoying repetition. I think it's a good album though, really, but I'll never listen in myself. 1349, Urgehal and Satyricon. 3 more great bands with an excellent early discography that are so much better then this on all fronts. But I like it faster, satanic and more diverse/complicated.


Are we talking of the same album here? Madrigal is surely faster than any Satyricon except Nemesis Divina (probably even that one over all), and it's not a repetitive album when viewed in the context of Norwegian black metal. I think you should listen to it again and really concentrate on what the guitars are doing. Subjectively I could say that this album wipes the floor with any Satyricon, but that isn't even what I am speaking of..it just seems that you have never really given this one a sufficient listen to really determine what's going on. I don't blame you; certainly a lot of people couldn't get past the sound of those guitars to discern the melodies underneath (not that I really understand why, it's not really such a difficult album to listen to), but as a seasoned black metal fan, you ought to be able to recognise that this album is not at all like you've described.
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peterlang
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 231
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:14 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Under_Starmere wrote:
I have to second the lauds of the melodic strength of Nattens Madrigal. This album really does capture a perfect philosophy on the riff. Everything feels wonderfully interlocked, the harmonies are always dynamic, and the melodies are always lovely, yet simultaneously filled with a fantastic feeling of strength and passion. It's got a romantic aura to it that sets it apart. Also interesting to note is how subtly and effectively Ulver's folk influence is incorporated into the sound without it ever sounding like "folk metal." It dwells far below the surface, in the heart of the music, suffusing the whole with a warm and bard-like mood that never counteracts the lupine intensity so necessary to the concept. It's a fantastic balance, I think it's perfect.

If what you're looking for is exclusively cold, grim, hateful, filthy black metal, of course this isn't going to cover you, but for those yearning for more poignant and romantic sounds, it's hard to beat this.


Well said..I think it's very easy to tell that this is the same band taht recorded Bergtatt, and I think which album is more complex is certainly up for debate. THere is a variety among the songs as well..one just has to listen to a contrast between, say, the first song and it's dancing folk harmonies, then the second and its more aggressive power-chord riffing (this is the one that made one person at the time of the album's release tell me that Ulver had started to sound like Morbid Angel).

Perhaps the drumming is a little one-dimensional, but Darkthrone certainly set a precedent for this with Transilvanian Hunger, and Garm pretty much stated that Madrigal was meant to pay tribute to Darkthrone and other such early Norwegian bands, while managing to sound not very much like them in other aspects.


Bergtatt uses much more elements (and instruments) than Madrigal does. It's really like Nattens Madrigal and Kveldssanger combined together in a very good way. You have black metal riffing and drumming with chanting vocals, acoustic guitar with flute, the next moment you can hear growls/screms coming from the heart, but you also get that "running part" with dramatic piano playing and silent breathing, and so on and so on... Really this five tracks is all very different but each is a beautiful piece of music. I think Nattens Madrigal is just more straightforward, but I'm definitely not saying that it's bad, since it's still more complex than many other black albums.

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waiguoren
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:23 am
Posts: 2111
Location: Make a kiss to her
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:14 pm 
 

Crypt666 wrote:
1349, Urgehal and Satyricon. 3 more great bands with an excellent early discography that are so much better then this on all fronts.


If by better you mean 'more cheesy corpsepaint' then yes, you are very correct.
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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4660
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:40 pm 
 

Crypt666 wrote:
Well not strong because it sounds so depressive and I think they're pretty slow for black metal, you just don't feel any power here, more wining.

"Nattens Madrigal" depressive? Are we even listening to the same album?

Oh, and I believe that by 'wining' you mean 'winning'. :P

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10119
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:48 pm 
 

peterlang wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
Under_Starmere wrote:
I have to second the lauds of the melodic strength of Nattens Madrigal. This album really does capture a perfect philosophy on the riff. Everything feels wonderfully interlocked, the harmonies are always dynamic, and the melodies are always lovely, yet simultaneously filled with a fantastic feeling of strength and passion. It's got a romantic aura to it that sets it apart. Also interesting to note is how subtly and effectively Ulver's folk influence is incorporated into the sound without it ever sounding like "folk metal." It dwells far below the surface, in the heart of the music, suffusing the whole with a warm and bard-like mood that never counteracts the lupine intensity so necessary to the concept. It's a fantastic balance, I think it's perfect.

If what you're looking for is exclusively cold, grim, hateful, filthy black metal, of course this isn't going to cover you, but for those yearning for more poignant and romantic sounds, it's hard to beat this.


Well said..I think it's very easy to tell that this is the same band taht recorded Bergtatt, and I think which album is more complex is certainly up for debate. THere is a variety among the songs as well..one just has to listen to a contrast between, say, the first song and it's dancing folk harmonies, then the second and its more aggressive power-chord riffing (this is the one that made one person at the time of the album's release tell me that Ulver had started to sound like Morbid Angel).

Perhaps the drumming is a little one-dimensional, but Darkthrone certainly set a precedent for this with Transilvanian Hunger, and Garm pretty much stated that Madrigal was meant to pay tribute to Darkthrone and other such early Norwegian bands, while managing to sound not very much like them in other aspects.


Bergtatt uses much more elements (and instruments) than Madrigal does. It's really like Nattens Madrigal and Kveldssanger combined together in a very good way. You have black metal riffing and drumming with chanting vocals, acoustic guitar with flute, the next moment you can hear growls/screms coming from the heart, but you also get that "running part" with dramatic piano playing and silent breathing, and so on and so on... Really this five tracks is all very different but each is a beautiful piece of music. I think Nattens Madrigal is just more straightforward, but I'm definitely not saying that it's bad, since it's still more complex than many other black albums.


Well, complexity can come in many forms. I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, but I think the things you've described are more elements of contrast than complexity. Taken on their own, each individual fragment is quite simple. To me, Madrigal might be viewed as the more complex album because: the riffing is busier; there is arguably more variety in the guitarwork (despite the comparative lack of acoustic sections), the songs contain many harmonies that race by in an apparent blur that is more difficult to analyse and come to grips with. I think Bergtatt has the zeal of youthful exuberance, but Madrigal has maturity and confidence.
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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4660
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:01 pm 
 

There's no denying that "Bergtatt" is a complex album, but sometimes it just sounds like they didn't really know what exactly they wanted to hear in a given part of a song.

The closing track is absolutely fantastic, though, and it perfectly sums up what's so great about early Ulver.

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Crypt666
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 1265
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:40 pm 
 

Ulver rules...

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The_Krusher
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:19 pm
Posts: 194
Location: USA
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:00 pm 
 

If I had to choose albums I'd pick over Nattens Madrigal I'd pick As the Wolves Gather by Forgotten Woods and Anno Domini by Tormentor. Nattens Madrigal is still an awesome album though.

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Peter31095Metalhead
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 221
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:01 pm 
 

Not my favorite black metal album (OE's Witchcraft is still the one), but it is certainly one of the best. It has so many beautiful melodies, plus I love the fucked up guitar tone. In fact, if it was different, I probably wouldn't like it so much.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5370
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:05 pm 
 

I out and out dislike it. The rawness serves no purpose, it's just as melodic and intricate as Bergtatt, it just lacks the folk parts. The music itself doesn't have the evil, misanthropic side to it that the ultra-rawness would like to have you believe. Also, the production sounds like it was done properly, and then mangled, rather than actually being done rawly.

But thats just me.

Actually, dislike it a bit harsh, the music really isn't bad, but I think they ruined it by trying to seem harsher and more evil than they really are.
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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 4365
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:11 pm 
 

Ulver reminds me of Nargaroth in that aside from the very first full length from both bands, they sound very insincere. Nattens Madrigal is almost like Opeth, they want you to think they're smart, without actually being smart.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5370
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:29 pm 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
Ulver reminds me of Nargaroth in that aside from the very first full length from both bands, they sound very insincere. Nattens Madrigal is almost like Opeth, they want you to think they're smart, without actually being smart.


Hooray, someone else who feels insincerity from Nattens Madrigal!

Although, Bergtatt is made of awesomesauce.
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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1933
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:23 am 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
There's no denying that "Bergtatt" is a complex album, but sometimes it just sounds like they didn't really know what exactly they wanted to hear in a given part of a song.


That's how I feel about Bergtatt. It has its moments (I troldskog faren vild and Een stemme locker), but the rest of the time the band's inexperience in writing shows through very strongly. They have ambition, but they don't have the skills to match it.

As for Nattens madrigal, it suffers from the same exact phenomenon. The first track is again very strong with those soaring melodies juxtaposed with the aggressive riffing, while a lot of the other songs just get boring with the repetition. Then again, I'm not a big fan of black metal in general so take that with a grain of whatever.

lord_ghengis wrote:
Hooray, someone else who feels insincerity from Nattens Madrigal!


I think this is what a lot of black metal-centered people think about the album.

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kampfplatz666
Sturmbannführer Borat

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 509
Location: Vatican City
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:21 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Nolan_B wrote:
Ulver reminds me of Nargaroth in that aside from the very first full length from both bands, they sound very insincere. Nattens Madrigal is almost like Opeth, they want you to think they're smart, without actually being smart.


Hooray, someone else who feels insincerity from Nattens Madrigal!

I think the way they musically took over the next years adds a feel of 'insincerity' to the album; it seems that they just desperately wanted to achieve 'trv3ness' rather than express an honest deep feeling or a good BM spirit...

I still like a lot some songs of it...
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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:04 am 
 

IIRC "Nattens Madrigal" was composed and recorded before "Kveldssanger".

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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1933
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:15 am 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
IIRC "Nattens Madrigal" was composed and recorded before "Kveldssanger".


I've never heard this, but sounds interesting. Do you remember where you heard or read this or do you have anything to substantiate it?

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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4660
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:05 am 
 

MacMoney wrote:
Catachthonian wrote:
IIRC "Nattens Madrigal" was composed and recorded before "Kveldssanger".


I've never heard this, but sounds interesting. Do you remember where you heard or read this or do you have anything to substantiate it?

http://www.kogaionon.com/english/archiv ... ulver.html

Garm wrote:
The album was finished before "Kveldssanger", but Century Media didn't agree to publish it until '97.

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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 4365
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:22 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
MacMoney wrote:
Catachthonian wrote:
IIRC "Nattens Madrigal" was composed and recorded before "Kveldssanger".


I've never heard this, but sounds interesting. Do you remember where you heard or read this or do you have anything to substantiate it?

http://www.kogaionon.com/english/archiv ... ulver.html

Garm wrote:
The album was finished before "Kveldssanger", but Century Media didn't agree to publish it until '97.

Could be just another lie to look like Madrigal was really GOIN AGAINST THE GRAIN.

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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4660
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:52 pm 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
Could be just another lie to look like Madrigal was really GOIN AGAINST THE GRAIN.

http://www.discogs.com/Ulver-Kveldssang ... ase/371955 - recorded in the summer and autumn of 1995.
http://www.discogs.com/Ulver-Nattens-Ma ... ase/372982 - composed and arranged in the first half of 1995.

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kampfplatz666
Sturmbannführer Borat

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 509
Location: Vatican City
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:43 pm 
 

Interesting interview.
Wheter it's true or not that they recorded NM before, mi point still stand as I said 'next years', not next album...

I didn't know there were 'nasty comments' of Ulver towards the fans in the Metamorhosis EP...
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