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Winterkald
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 10:43 am
Posts: 1346
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:27 am 
 

NightmareLake wrote:
I thought lyrics didn't matter? HA!


I never said that they didn't matter, they do, as long as they are not Christian or whatsoever. Like I said, pretty much all BM have anti-Christian symphaties, even though it can be possible that the lyrical subjects are not directly anti-Christian and-/or Satanic, occult etc. Satanic and anti-Christian lyrical subject are very important for black metal and pretty much define the genre, but are not completely nessecary for provoking or expressing anti-Christian symphaties. Please read more careful.

Also, that picture of Antestor is pretty hilarious. Corpsepaint and wearing a Christian cross (not the crooked one), the other one also with corpsepaint and wearing a priest' robe. :')

The overall conclusion is that, and I think that a lot of people can agree with me, Christians have no place in black metal. I second what another person said in this topic. Christian can persuade a black metal sound, but they will NEVER EVER make black metal.
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circleofdestruction
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 805
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:36 am 
 

I think NL was referring to that other thread, but even there I think people were discussing more the quality of the lyrics more than what they were about.

Still, I think unblack metal just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. (I don't care if christian bands want to make a band that sounds like whatever, I mean, that's their choice, but I mean the whole corpsepaint and calling it "unblack" seems stupid to me, If you want to make christian music with some tremolo riffs and screaming, go right ahead, but don't paint yourself up like you're black metal and pose in graveyards. it's unoriginal and just weird for christian metal to do that).

Sure, not every BM song has to be about satan satan satan, but that doesn't mean christianity goes well with BM, for a number of reasons.

I sort of want to look up some violent unblack metal lyrics now though, just for laughs.
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NightmareLake
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 263
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:09 am 
 

Winterkald wrote:
NightmareLake wrote:
I thought lyrics didn't matter? HA!


I never said that they didn't matter, they do, as long as they are not Christian or whatsoever.
You can't put all of these man made rules on art. Metal has no rules.

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NightmareLake
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 263
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:38 am 
 

Alot of the black metal musicians that kids look up to these days come from christian backgrounds. Sure they may put all of that behind them and pretend to be grim and evil, but deep down they are good little christian boys. Take Varg for example. His birth name is Kristian. The meaning of the name Kristian originates from the words as follows. Follower of lord jesus christ. Yeah, he grew into his teen years and met some other outcasts and they all decided to pretend to be dark and evil. Kids do the strangest things.

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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:50 am 
 

NightmareLake wrote:
Alot of the black metal musicians that kids look up to these days come from christian backgrounds. Sure they may put all of that behind them and pretend to be grim and evil, but deep down they are good little christian boys. Take Varg for example. His birth name is Kristian. The meaning of the name Kristian originates from the words as follows. Follower of lord jesus christ. Yeah, he grew into his teen years and met some other outcasts and they all decided to pretend to be dark and evil. Kids do the strangest things.

A lot of problems here... First, Varg did not choose his birth name. Second, it's a very common first name (Kristian/Christian), and few parents who use it care about the meanings of names, just that it's a common name to have and they like the sound of it. Also, just because you are born Christian (the religion, I mean) doesn't mean you believe that or have to follow the religion your whole life. A lot of people change their religion or abandon religion; just because their parents followed a religion doesn't mean they have to, and it certainly isn't the only criteria for being "a good little christian boy."
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Winterkald
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 10:43 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:52 am 
 

NightmareLake wrote:
Alot of the black metal musicians that kids look up to these days come from christian backgrounds. Sure they may put all of that behind them and pretend to be grim and evil, but deep down they are good little christian boys. Take Varg for example. His birth name is Kristian. The meaning of the name Kristian originates from the words as follows. Follower of lord jesus christ. Yeah, he grew into his teen years and met some other outcasts and they all decided to pretend to be dark and evil. Kids do the strangest things.


Growing up with a Christian background is a good explaination where their hatred toward Christianity comes from. I grew up with a Christian background and it helped develop my anti-Christian symphaties, I didn't need black metal for that. Do you really think that behind the corpsepaint lie true Christians? I can hardly imagine. And also, Vikernes was never a Satanist and he isn't one now.
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AngelofDeath777
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:07 am 
 

circleofdestruction wrote:
but don't paint yourself up like you're black metal and pose in graveyards. it's unoriginal and just weird for christian metal to do that).
.



Unoriginal, Yes, no argument there. But weird for Christian metal to do that? I don't see why that would be the case. I mean how many of those gravestones have crosses or angels on them? and how many of those people were buried with Christian ceremonies? Also, Christian theology talks at length about the "death of the flesh" and things of that nature. The death and decay of our physical bodies is symbolic of those things. Thats just the way I look at it.

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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 805
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:14 am 
 

AngelofDeath777 wrote:
circleofdestruction wrote:
but don't paint yourself up like you're black metal and pose in graveyards. it's unoriginal and just weird for christian metal to do that).
.



Unoriginal, Yes, no argument there. But weird for Christian metal to do that? I don't see why that would be the case. I mean how many of those gravestones have crosses or angels on them? and how many of those people were buried with Christian ceremonies? Also, Christian theology talks at length about the "death of the flesh" and things of that nature. The death and decay of our physical bodies is symbolic of those things. Thats just the way I look at it.


Weird because they are adopting the things that people they shouldn't want to be like are doing. I'm not saying they can't hang out in graveyards, I'm saying taking corpsepaint pictures in graveyards is associated more with non-christian bm.

I'm saying christian music can sound any way it wants, but I don't know why they'd go out of their way to look and act like "satanic" black metallers and associate themselves with a genre that is associated with being antichristian. Why not just call it something else?
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
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Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:16 am 
 

AngelofDeath777 wrote:
circleofdestruction wrote:
but don't paint yourself up like you're black metal and pose in graveyards. it's unoriginal and just weird for christian metal to do that).
.



Unoriginal, Yes, no argument there. But weird for Christian metal to do that? I don't see why that would be the case. I mean how many of those gravestones have crosses or angels on them? and how many of those people were buried with Christian ceremonies? Also, Christian theology talks at length about the "death of the flesh" and things of that nature. The death and decay of our physical bodies is symbolic of those things. Thats just the way I look at it.

But you still copy an image, which was coined as a manifest against you. The "corpsepaint" was actually created to give the musicians an evil look, like King Diamond uses it. You simply copy photos of satamic bands without deeply thinking about it, and without being able to create something original.

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King_Hands
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
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Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:48 am 
 

Slechtvalk is an unblack metal band with some violent lyrics. It's mostly medieval type lyrics, like fighting in battles for God.

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Cruciphage
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:57 pm 
 

NightmareLake wrote:
Winterkald wrote:
NightmareLake wrote:
I thought lyrics didn't matter? HA!


I never said that they didn't matter, they do, as long as they are not Christian or whatsoever.
You can't put all of these man made rules on art. Metal has no rules.

There's a difference between rules and standards. Without standards, everything gels into one uniform mass and it becomes pointless to discuss anything.
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SharpAndSlender
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:49 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:16 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Is there some sort of neo-Inquisitional/witch-skinning trend running through the unblack scene?


God it would be so much better if there were.
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Under_Starmere
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:34 pm 
 

SharpAndSlender wrote:
Under_Starmere wrote:
Is there some sort of neo-Inquisitional/witch-skinning trend running through the unblack scene?


God it would be so much better if there were.


Haha! I know! I have this strange desire for there to be some obscure enclave of musicians in Italy or somewhere, totally off their heads, sincerely calling for some return to Dark Medieval Times and all that that entails. With names like Pantocrator, All-Seeing Eye, and Screams of the Witch.

As for the genre title, I submit Wrath Metal.


Last edited by Under_Starmere on Mon May 17, 2010 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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enghell666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:10 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:37 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
enghell666 wrote:
Yes, because it is pro-christianity and has christian lyrics. christianity has absolutely no place in metal and no place in modern society what so ever, so do NOT support!


Oh look, I'm donating money to the church and buying unblack metal bands! I'm SUCH AN IDIOT!

<_<


Well, you're probably just a fucking troll, and I am wasting my time, but if it's true what you're saying, you are a fucking idiot!
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King_Hands
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:50 pm 
 

Does anyone else see the irony?

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enghell666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:10 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:55 pm 
 

Whackooyzero wrote:
You guys are all sounding real childish you know? What you don't like Christianity so thus they can't sing about it? That poor Euronymous definition of BM having to have satanic lyrics is pretty much gone nowadays anyways. I mean look at Summoning, Immortal, and Drudkh, we have so many bands who don't sing about satan, that you're just sounding like "I HATE CHRISTIANITY SO NO BAND CAN SING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THAT'S NOT METAL!" bullshit.

I never call these bands unblack, because if they are musically black metal, they are black metal so whether you like their ideology or not that doesn't change the genre. I don't see why BM is the only genre where the ideology is so important, especially considering nobody gets mad when a death metal band sings about a topic other than gore, stop acting like teenagers trying to rebel.


First off, you seem to be about as stupid as they come.

In black metal, the ideology is part of the whole thing, it's NOT only about the music, fucking get that! Does it have to be all satanic? No it doesn't, but it has to be against christianity in some way. It might be lyrics about dark old scary forests, cold fucking glaciers, paganism or straight out theistic satanism, that is all good, but it can NEVER EVER have anything to do with pro-christianity! So a band with christian views and/or lyrics, is NOT black metal.
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BaloroftheEvilEye
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:01 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony?


Why, whatever could you mean?

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King_Hands
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
Posts: 629
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:02 pm 
 

enghell666 wrote:
In black metal, the ideology is part of the whole thing, it's NOT only about the music, fucking get that! Does it have to be all satanic? No it doesn't, but it has to be against christianity in some way. It might be lyrics about dark old scary forests, cold fucking glaciers, paganism or straight out theistic satanism, that is all good, but it can NEVER EVER have anything to do with pro-christianity! So a band with christian views and/or lyrics, is NOT black metal.


Why not?

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BaloroftheEvilEye
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1624
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:05 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
enghell666 wrote:
In black metal, the ideology is part of the whole thing, it's NOT only about the music, fucking get that! Does it have to be all satanic? No it doesn't, but it has to be against christianity in some way. It might be lyrics about dark old scary forests, cold fucking glaciers, paganism or straight out theistic satanism, that is all good, but it can NEVER EVER have anything to do with pro-christianity! So a band with christian views and/or lyrics, is NOT black metal.


Why not?


Please don't question him. Angel is always right about everything.

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:06 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
Why not?

The same reason RAC can't have black power lyrics.
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King_Hands
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Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:06 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony?


Why, whatever could you mean?

I was merely referring to the fact that he refers to others as "fucking trolls" and "fucking idiots" when he is undoubtedly one of the two. Minus the fucking part of course, as I can't imagine he is very successful with the ladies.

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BaloroftheEvilEye
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:08 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony?


Why, whatever could you mean?

I was merely referring to the fact that he refers to others as "fucking trolls" and "fucking idiots" when he is undoubtedly one of the two. Minus the fucking part of course, as I can't imagine he is very successful with the ladies.


Angel is obviously not a troll. Please treat his opinions with respect, or better yet, do not reply to him.

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enghell666
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:10 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:14 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
enghell666 wrote:
In black metal, the ideology is part of the whole thing, it's NOT only about the music, fucking get that! Does it have to be all satanic? No it doesn't, but it has to be against christianity in some way. It might be lyrics about dark old scary forests, cold fucking glaciers, paganism or straight out theistic satanism, that is all good, but it can NEVER EVER have anything to do with pro-christianity! So a band with christian views and/or lyrics, is NOT black metal.


Why not?


Well, I just explained it...
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Inkshooter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:19 pm 
 

Winterkald wrote:

I never said that they didn't matter, they do, as long as they are not Christian or whatsoever. Like I said, pretty much all BM have anti-Christian symphaties, even though it can be possible that the lyrical subjects are not directly anti-Christian and-/or Satanic, occult etc. Satanic and anti-Christian lyrical subject are very important for black metal and pretty much define the genre.


You seem to me to be one of those people that care more about the image of a band than the music. It doesn't matter how many 'rules' you set up to defend your precious anti-Christian black metal sentiments, because art (ESPECIALLY metal) has no rules.

Winterkald wrote:
Also, that picture of Antestor is pretty hilarious. Corpsepaint and wearing a Christian cross (not the crooked one), the other one also with corpsepaint and wearing a priest' robe. :')


Their old band photo is a lot less "hilarious":

Image

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gazeovice
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Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:53 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:20 pm 
 

[quote="EntilZha"][quote="King_Hands"]Why not?[/quote]
The same reason RAC can't have black power lyrics.[/quote]

Yet they can refer to themselves as "National socialists"?! PARADOX!!

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enghell666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:10 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:23 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony?


Why, whatever could you mean?

I was merely referring to the fact that he refers to others as "fucking trolls" and "fucking idiots" when he is undoubtedly one of the two. Minus the fucking part of course, as I can't imagine he is very successful with the ladies.


Well, with the type of comments you leave here, you're either pretty slow and would refer to an idiot, or you're a troll.

And about the ladies, even if it's not your fucking business, you should ask my fiancé what she thinks about that, you fucking christian douche! Oh no, did I say the "F" word again? Well, fuck you!
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BloodandDope
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:50 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:27 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
Crimson Moonlight (Death/black, probably the best Christian band out there.)


Ill agree with this. I dont like a lot of Unblack metal for various reasons ranging from ideological to the music just being boring, but these guys are pretty legit.
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King_Hands
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:32 pm 
 

enghell666 wrote:
Well, with the type of comments you leave here, you're either pretty slow and would refer to an idiot, or you're a troll.

And about the ladies, even if it's not your fucking business, you should ask my fiancé what she thinks about that, you fucking christian douche! Oh no, did I say the "F" word again? Well, fuck you!

Oh no! I have been offended by your vile swears!

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BloodandDope
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:35 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony?


Why, whatever could you mean?

I was merely referring to the fact that he refers to others as "fucking trolls" and "fucking idiots" when he is undoubtedly one of the two. Minus the fucking part of course, as I can't imagine he is very successful with the ladies.


Angel is obviously not a troll. Please treat his opinions with respect, or better yet, do not reply to him.


He's not a troll but hes a moron.
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enghell666
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:10 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:39 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
Winterkald wrote:

I never said that they didn't matter, they do, as long as they are not Christian or whatsoever. Like I said, pretty much all BM have anti-Christian symphaties, even though it can be possible that the lyrical subjects are not directly anti-Christian and-/or Satanic, occult etc. Satanic and anti-Christian lyrical subject are very important for black metal and pretty much define the genre.


You seem to me to be one of those people that care more about the image of a band than the music. It doesn't matter how many 'rules' you set up to defend your precious anti-Christian black metal sentiments, because art (ESPECIALLY metal) has no rules.


You are obviously clueless. It does not have to do with any image, don't you understand what he means? As a band (or a fan) you don't have to wear corpsepaint and huge fucking spikes or anything like that, as long as you know what you're doing and what defines the genre of music you are trying to portrait. Black metal is about more than the music, it's about a message and a conviction and lifestyle, and that message is NOT pro-christianity it is the opposite. You and many others here are obviously not very into black metal, but that's cool, it's not for everyone. Just don't try and talk like you actually are into it and then put stupid posts on a forum like this.
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enghell666
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:41 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
enghell666 wrote:
Well, with the type of comments you leave here, you're either pretty slow and would refer to an idiot, or you're a troll.

And about the ladies, even if it's not your fucking business, you should ask my fiancé what she thinks about that, you fucking christian douche! Oh no, did I say the "F" word again? Well, fuck you!

Oh no! I have been offended by your vile swears!


I fucking hope so. :fuck:
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OnwardToGolgotha
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:41 pm 
 

To me it just seems like these bands are going in the face of the "heritage" of black metal. It's not a great analogy, but you can think of them like wiggers, as in hip-hop and inner city culture was almost totally black, with white people with no background in it coopting it.

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King_Hands
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:42 pm 
 

To be serious though, I'm wondering where you got the idea that I would be offended by swearing.

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enghell666
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:43 pm 
 

BloodandDope wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
King_Hands wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony?


Why, whatever could you mean?

I was merely referring to the fact that he refers to others as "fucking trolls" and "fucking idiots" when he is undoubtedly one of the two. Minus the fucking part of course, as I can't imagine he is very successful with the ladies.


Angel is obviously not a troll. Please treat his opinions with respect, or better yet, do not reply to him.


He's not a troll but hes a moron.


Oh no, the PMS chick... :thumbsdown:
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enghell666
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:46 pm 
 

King_Hands wrote:
To be serious though, I'm wondering where you got the idea that I would be offended by swearing.


Nowhere, I was joking.
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Winterkald
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:12 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:

You seem to me to be one of those people that care more about the image of a band than the music. It doesn't matter how many 'rules' you set up to defend your precious anti-Christian black metal sentiments, because art (ESPECIALLY metal) has no rules.



Well, I'm not one of the people who cares more about the image then the music. The whole mythology behind black metal is extremely fascinating though. What people seem to forget is that black metal is intolerance and black metal equals anti-Christianity. There is no doubt about that. Black metal isn't JUST about the music. The music surely is very important, but it's not JUST about the music. There are no 'rules' here. If you are a Christian and you want to persuade making black metal? Fine, go ahead. I won't understand why and you will never gain my support and I'm pretty sure that 99% of the black metal scene will laugh at you and kick you in the balls after that :) .

This whole thread is pretty pointless now because there is practically no discussion anymore, besides enghell666 and King_Hands having a bitchfight (hehe). I think this thread can be closed.
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Under_Starmere
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:22 pm 
 

Can you guys continue the playground slap fight in PM form, please? I'd prefer it if we could continue this discussion and keep this thread unlocked.

Back on topic:

AngelofDeath777 wrote:
...Besides which, violence and death are a part of life, as we all know. So I don't know why it would be out of place for a Christian band to focus on those aspects of our existence. They would be more misguided if they completely avoided the subject. IMO.

I played in an Unblack band, and was the main lyricist. and I did my best to stay away from lyrics like those, and focus more on my view of the world through a christian perspective. I didn't want to be a "Crush Satan" band, nor did I just want to be a Blackened church worship band. Many of those bands tend to be generic and thrive off of the built in audience.


This is interesting, since you're probably the only person in this thread whose actually been involved in this genre first-hand. Was there an ideological conflict between your bandmates? I'm curious to know how an unblack band gets formed in the first place, and what sorts of spiritual conundrums you encountered in the process of developing yours. It might shed some valuable light on this discussion.

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NightmareLake
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 263
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:27 pm 
 

Everyone is bashing christianity and in another thread mourning the loss of Dio who is proclaimed as a metal god. Shall I start posting quotes from interviews with Dio where he states that following Jesus Christ is a good path? Was Dio a poser because he believed Jesus was a prophet and a good path to take in life? You people are hilarious!

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MaDTransilvanian
Caravan Beyond Redemption

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 3862
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:30 pm 
 

Maybe people can, you know, separate a man's work and his personal beliefs? Glorifying his realizations as a musician doesn't imply accepting his religious views for oneself or losing respect for his musical output because of those views.
_________________
The band career analysis thread.

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King_Hands
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
Posts: 629
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:33 pm 
 

Winterkald wrote:
This whole thread is pretty pointless now because there is practically no discussion anymore, besides enghell666 and King_Hands having a bitchfight (hehe). I think this thread can be closed.

Oh no, I'm done with that. If other people want to continue discussing the topic, I will not interrupt them with any more fighting.

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