what do you think of bands who just use controversy as an advertising method?
i usually am not a huge fan of bands who are controversial for the hell of it but i do like the berzerker who used controversial methods(not controversial to me but still) to premote their band

Generally it is done from a lack of quality musicianship on their part.

AKA: A big waste of my time

What the fuck, OP. I was coming in here to mention The Berzerker.

Musicianship should come first. Always. Worry about murders, defecation, and giant dildos later.

usually i agree the berzerker were well known when they covered all the things she said and created controversy so i think they just did it for the hell of it but bands that do it early on when they are not very well known tend to do it to cover up the fact that they have no talent

lol is the only thing they done that caused controversy is the all the things she said cover? i find that cover catchy as hell

I'm cool with controversy. In this day and age especially, being superb is not enough to guarantee success.

The one thing I hate, and always will, is when bands pretend to support an ideology they don't believe in. See The Mentors, for example, who advocated the legalization of rape but years later admitted they were never serious.

Yes, it is. I think it was a stupid thing for them to do. They've already established a name for themselves, so why cover a pop song, make a music video with lesbos getting down and claim it's "edgy"? If The Berzerker wanted real notoriety they'd get their act together and make a bone-crushing new album.

Yeah.

Really? I saw a vid someone posted(can't remember who or where) with them on Jerry Springer talking about all that nonsense. and it was all a load of bull on their part? Faggots.

Yeah, I was the one who posted that vid. (You'll notice I stated that they were pretending to be pro-rape.) They did that pro-rape act for many years, but the thing is that they pretended they were serious. The band stuck together after the singer died (and are still together today), and I believe it was sometime after that that they admitted the escapade was all for promotion.

Just an awful band really. The singer also claimed that Courtney Love called him up asking if he would murder Kurt Cobain for 50,000 dollars, which of course caused some investigation but they never found much evidence. It's not a bad idea to guess it was another promotional stunt, but who knows?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2nK5IQs_g

well i liked the cover anyways eventhough it was way too soft im hoping the berzerker are currently working on a new album and im hoping its going to be heavier than anything they have done(i want more songs like forever and last mistake)

Controversy is alright. Certain things kind of depress me to become somewhat nice and accessable. I think it'd be interesting if metal went again to something considered dangerous and evil. While it's not exactly the most accepted things, it's a lot more acceptable now than it was twenty years ago.

Besides, who listens to a band cause of controversy??

It attracts curiosity. Then, the music hooks you while you're feeding your curiosity.

What the hell? Even if they weren't serious, to even think of something like that is INSANE!!!!

I myself don't mind it, as long as the music is good.

Well controversy can be often pretty cool for the cult stuff. Mayhem with pigs heads and Maggots, Immortal spitting fire, Dimmu Borgir puking blood, I heard some cruel stories about Marilyn Manson killing puppies or something (antichrsit superstar is pretty cool) please correct me if I'm wrong with these things. And we all heard about the church stuff going on with BM. I even heard some BM bands use NSBM just as a shocker! No idea if it's true and I think Sieg heil on your album is just a little bit less awfull then buying a gallon of gas or a diamond ring for your girl with kids blood on it

I never heard of a crap band doing anything controversial... (lol wel maybe nsbm)

Nargaroth

I wouldn't be surprised that a lot of the NSBM bands just do it to shock people especially in the States. They aren't real neo-nazis.

I think that would apply to a lot of bands. Sometimes it's easy to convince yourself that something means a hell of a lot to you, and then forget about it as you "mature". I think Slayer would be an example of this...they claim they were never "serious about satanism" yet I find "Hell Awaits" a very sincere record anyway.

The fact that they were on Jerry Springer should have been a big clue that they were never serious. I mean, really, did anyone really ever believe the Mentors were anything more than a joke? Their singer called himself "El Duce" and their guitarist called himself "Sickie Wifebeater". All they wanted to do was get a rise out of people.

The only thing that ever gave El Duce's claims about Courtney Love any credibility (in the eyes of some) was that he died under bizarre circumstances shortly after making the claims (he was hit by a train while drunk). This led conspriracy theorists to claim that he was murdered for going public with his claim about Courtney Love.

Don't really care. If their music is good, fine. If it's not, I forget about it and move on.

Yeah, I know, but that's when I believe controversy becomes stupid. When there's no quality or talent in the music, and they're going around lying to get publicity, that's when I no longer support controversy.

Well, hang on a minute...do you really think of it as "a lie", or is it more along the lines of playing a character? I think the Mentors had a pretty obvious degree of theatricalness to what they did, even if it's of the sleezy and low-budget kind, as opposed to Gwar, who I guess take the whole "concert as theatre performance" thing very seriously. I know it's not uncommon for artists to sort of slip into a role when they perform...sometimes it's not even a concious thing. Bob Calvert actually went so far into his role that it affected his schizophrenic personality and he began to believe he really was an urban gorilla in contact with aliens. There's a local band here that's courting lots of controversy right now with their attitudes and stage antics, which include self-mutilation and blatant sexual excesses. Yes, they're doing it to get attention..yes, they are also kind of fucked up, but I think the personalities they put forward in their performances are not quite the same as the mien they adopt in their home lives, as prone to wild behaviour as I know they still sometimes are.

What about all the death metal bands who write about necrophilia, killing sprees, shit-eating and other charming topics? If you met the members of Pungent Stench, would you be disappointed to find that they're actually pretty level-headed guys with whom you could carry on a conversation? Are they lying about all this shit, or just telling stories?

Some bands just have controversy in their hearts. There are plenty of outfits who are as controversial as their demons demand and don't hit the newswaves, but keep on at it because it's a part of who they are. People do what comes natural.

There's a huge difference between putting on a performance and writing lyrics, and going around claiming to advocate a political or social view you don't believe in. If Corpsegrinder went on TV stations advocating that murder and cannibalism should be legalized, that'd be quite the douchebag of him.

Perhaps though it's only a matter of degree. IN metal circles it isn't entirely uncommon to take extreme stances on such things...but most people realise that courting certain kinds of controversy can actually damage their chances of success (I'm thinking of nS ideology in particular here, really). If one doesn't care about adverse reactions, the temptation to "say what one wants", either because of brashness, for the sake of a reaction, or because of actual conviction, can be pretty strong. I don't think it's really so easy to tell the difference...clearly a lot of folks could never tell in days past when Judas Priest were accused of causing a child's death, or marilyn Manson was supposed to have been responsible for converting thousands of teens into promiscuous satanists.

I'm sure El Deuce was still a douche, but what is it that separates him from a guy like GG Allin? Is it that El Deuce can lead a "normal" life (debatable?) while GG was simply too fucked up to do so?

I've known the Berzerker before All the Things She Said and never heard anything about it. I've watched the vid and can't see how uptight people can be if they take offense in that. Sure, it's a cheesey and provocative vid, but it isn't justified. Carcass and the first few BM bands had a lot of controversy surrounding them, mostly because of the lyrics. The same happens to bands who touch subjects such as anti-islam (Monolith Deathcult) or the Third Reich (Slayer)

Controversy can be justified when a band promotes shit like racism (Arghoslent) or nazism (Temnozor, Graveland, Thor's Hammer and pretty much any other NSBM band) or has members who are controversial (David Vincent the fascist, Varg the murderer, Fenriz and Apartheid, you think of it).

I'll admit, I've listened to a few racist/NSBM bands because of the controversy but thought they were crap (yes, even Arghoslent, their splits suck. The only album I could remotely replay was HOTP).

A big difference between ideologically driven (communism, nazism, racism) and action driven (killing, necrophilia, Third Reich, torture, crime) songs is the fact that the artists who play the first category actually take their lyrics seriously. The latter ones express feelings but don't go on actual killing streaks or rape somone.

Arghoslent promoting racism?

GG Allin advocated ideas just as shocking as El Duce, but GG Allin meant what he said. I suppose it's theoretically possible that he was lying and didn't really believe in the ideology he advocated, but I see no evidence for it. I don't know if while El Duce was alive he ever admitted he was faking his stances, but after he died the other band members have been very open about how everything they ever said was a joke.

Regardless, I don't really approve of GG Allin either. If he played metal, I just might have mentioned him in this thread.

Which controversial methods? I've never read anything about that.

Please. I imagine quite a few members of this forum got into DM after seeing a Cannibal Corpse album cover, or the inverted cross on Glen Benton's forehead, and thinking 'awesome!' Furthermore, there's been a whole host of metal musicians who've admitted that they bought <i>Reign in Blood</i> or <i>Welcome to Hell</i> for similar reasons, and were terrified that their mum would find it! Metal's always been at least 30% controversy, hence its inability to ever be truly mainstream.

I don't disagree with you. I think the subject is interesting, though. It seems to me that it's often easier for people who think that they've "grown up" to claim that they never meant what they said in the past...much simpler and lets them off the hook, I suppose, from giving more complex and meaningful explanations for their behaviour. "What are you, stupid? We did it all for shock!" It's funny to hear Alice Cooper mocking black metal bands, as if in order to make sense of something he must bring it down to his level and laugh off beligerent or shocking actions as an entertaining gimmick. Even so, I bet he's also lost sight of the person he once was, to a certain extent. I think a lot of people who feel an affinity for more "extreme" ideologies, sounds, etc, go through intense periods in which they care little for the social consequences of their actions and are perhaps capable of doing disturbing/reprehensible things simply because the urge strikes. If one has money, and thus, clout, the temptation might even be all that much greater. Despite what I hinted at above about "extremity", I know that guys like David Bowie, Keith Moon, Freddie Mercury and so on did more fucked up things than most of us could ever dream of because they had both the ability and the spotlight. I'm sure they said a shitload of things they later regretted, too...doesn't mean they weren't to an extent delivered in all or at least partial seriousness at the time. Slayer may not have been true advocates of Satan in person in 1985, but they sure loved to "fuck shit up", and I liken that feeling to a hankering for blood or violence, a sort of animalistic impulse that is simultaneously very human by virtue of its sheer hedonism and, well..."bloodymindedness".

Take Boyd Rice as another example. I'm pretty sure the guy believes in at least some of what he says, but often when listening to him you can't help but conclude that he's sort of taking the piss, or at least taking the misanthropic nature of his character to a far-flung extreme. It's hard to tell, though, and I wager that some of these guys don't even know where the line between reality and fiction is drawn.

I'm sort of shocked so big is this thread and not even one mention of Brujeria???

No, you miss my point. I didn't mean who gets into metal or checks out a band because of controversy, I mean who continually listens to a band based on controversy, not because of musical merit?

I feel like I may know who you are talking about lol.

When I think of contreversy, I think of Slayer getting blamed for that girl getting murdered up north, of course the Ozzy and Judas Priest witch hunts from the 80's, and Cannibal Corpse's first three album covers being banned in half the world.

What? I've never heard of this before and I didn't expect to as Pete is ethnic, from El Salvador to be accurate.

I've heard that Vincent dabbles with dudes, but never that he was a fascist.

I don't know for sure either, but I read the British media 'discovered' it in the mid nineties.

How don't they? Their new split is also quite praising about the Shoa.

Wut?

Bands that resort to controversial attention whoring are generally crap to begin with, so they do such things to be noticed.

It's not much different than pop, where there seems to be a clothing-to-talent ratio. (Less talent = less clothing, i.e. Britney Spears)

There was a time when the music itself was controversial, but that's no longer the case.