This is something I have thought about lately. It seems metal fans are very closed minded when it comes to other types of music, but many metal band members listen to all sorts of things that the fans would label as nu metal or poser music. Examples. Some Immolation guys are into linkin park and slipknot and korn. Malevolent Creation guys into slipknot. I'm sure you have read many more instances in interviews and we could go on and on with examples.

Do you think some fans try too hard to be "true" and "kvlt", while the band members of the bands they worship are listening to nu metal, pop, country or whatever?

Not sure what to say about this other than that people are seldom as closed to new ideas as you might think, but I find it funny that you sited nu-metal bands as examples of things that "open-minded metalheads" could be into. You'll probably find a lot more metalheads into jazz, classical, ambient music, 80s goth, or even underground hip-hop. There's a good reason most of us dislike Linkin Park et al.

Well I guess it's because alot of fans bash nu metal all the time and alot of their favorite bands probably listen to it. The fans try their hardest to be true to metal, while their favorite bands are rocking out to linkin park. Just makes you wonder.

yeah, maybe, but why nu-metal? I think it's much more likely to be something else entirely. I do listen to Immolation, but I have no idea what the band members are into. They can listen to whatever they like, but if their music started to incorporate much of that influence, I would stop listening. I don't think that's got much to do with close-mindedness or general intolerance...rather an intolerance towards nu-metal specifically, which a lot of metalheads happen to share.

Also, I have read many interviews with metal bands where they say they don't even listen to metal at all. I guess I just think the fans try too hard to fit into this "true" image, when in reality the bands they love are bouncin to the latest deftones album.

Actually I read an interview that said nu metal might have influenced Harnessing Ruin.

You got a point there, but that doesn't mean they are more open minded than us.

Well...I don't.

And I'm still wondering why you keep bringing up nu-metal bands.

Edit: A lot of the band's detractors claim there's a nu-metal influence nowadays. I only listened to "Harnessing RUin" once or twice and indeed it wasn't as good as "Here in After" or "Close to a World Below" by a long way. The band rules live, however. Anyway, I can't figure out what liking nu-metal has to do with being open-minded .. maybe you should change the topic to make it clearer you want to discuss "true metal" bands that enjoy nu-metal?

And they dont care about having any sort of "true" status.

Because nu metal seems to be the thing that metal fans hate, yet the bands they love might enjoy it. It's just weird is all.

Okay, so some good metal band members might like some shit music, what's the point you're getting at?

As long as they keep making good stuff, they can listen to whatever they want.

I doubt Dave Mustaine is rocking out to Korn.

No, Mustaine is probably listening to Christian rock. A lot better.

That the musicians are more open minded than the fans. That's the whole point of this thread!

Metal is like lots of other cult culture pursuits-the worst thing about it is the fans. Not all fans, mind you-there are many such as myself who have a vast range of music interests, although i do confess i can be rather close minded about certain things. however, the faction that garners attention are those that sit around defining "metal" a la Dethklok. For example, when Samoth's wife was quoted in Blabbermouth as they loved their newborn daughter, there were dingbats claiming that Samoth was "not tr00" because of it. Similarly, while one of the most openly open-minded bands is Manowar, but they receive grief because of their embracing of classical music (neverminding Ihsahn embraces it as well).

Many of us listen to a lot of different kinds of music, we are not close minded just because we don't like nu metal.

They're not more open minded, they're just into shit bands! For fuck's sake man...

EDIT: To elaborate; while metal makes up most of what I listen to, I also enjoy a lot of other styles of music. Most people here do too. We're not close minded if we hate nu-metal, it's just that nu-metal pretty much always sucks balls.

That's the mentality I'm speaking of.

I believe I have a new catchphrase, feel free to quote me in context people. So, without further ado, I sum up this thread's idea.

You're an idiot.

Okay, okay, let's just forget about the whole concept or true or false metal and look at things for their own merits. Why do I hate nu-metal/metalcore/deathcore? Because the music is fucking shit. If they never called themselves metal, I'd still think they were shit because to my ears the music just plain sucks.

I had to double take and read the date the OP was posted, because I swore I saw this posted a while back and I thought someone had just bumped it.

I have been a fan of metal for over 20 years and I have seen this mentality way too much over the years. Do you have aything to add to the thread or are you just going to keep putting your low self esteem on display here?

Is it being closed minded to immediately despise and ridicule a band labelled nu-metal despite the fact you may not have listened to it? Yes.

Is it being closed minded to not bother checking out said band because you simply haven't enjoyed anything else from the genre? No.

Some metalheads do tend to do the former thing, but I'd like to think most nu-metal hating metalheads simply haven't enjoyed the music and see no need to give each and every nu-metal band their own chance. I don't see why it is being closed-minded if you simply don't like the music, even if the members of your favourite bands do.

Alright, here we go.

1) Stop trying to inflate your own ego. Between the Mortuus thread claiming how rock hard you are now your "20 years of metal!", you really need to stop trying to talk yourself up.

2) It is NOT close minded if people dislike music because they, erm, dislike it. If a person calls nu-metal shit, they are not close-minded. Being "open-minded" (urgh, I hate playing with this bullshit) is not about liking everything, it's about getting a taste and if you don't like it, then so be it, you don't like it. There are people on this board who are probably into Slipknot. I'm into Rammstein. Some people aren't, and I can see why. Do you think any of these people give two shits about being open-minded or close-minded? Fuck no, I certainly don't, and it's a sad development if lovers of a genre are criticising each other for liking it above others.

I don't listen to nu metal myself simply because it doesn't appeal to me. All I'm saying is that alot of metal fans say nu metal is poser stuff, and if their favorite bands enjoy it then they are listening to bands who are posers, according to their own logic.

I've tried enough nu-metal and not liked it that I have very little desire to go check out more. It's the only metal genre I know of which seems to have no musical connection (to me) with the rest of metal, most of which I like. It seems incredibly simplistic and repetitive in a way which drives me nuts.

That's a matter of taste, not close-mindedness. Yes, some people take it to a ridiculous extreme "playing to the crowd", but most of us really just don't like it. That doesn't mean we're closed to new music in general, just that we don't like one subgenre.

Orb, you're forgetting that it's a matter of degree. Fair or not, making kickass music often means a get out of jail free card regarding your own taste

Many musicians are "very pleased" with an album they just finished writing - but the fans get their hands on said album and think it's shit; yes, indeed, the musicians are more open minded than the fans.

Sophistry. It always works.

The handful of awesome metalheads who might sometimes enjoy Slipknot doesn't make up for the hordes upon hordes of pierced and green-haired kids in KoRn hoodies that fill the streets. The majority of nu-metal's fandom are that sort of angsty poser we all find very irritating.

Orb, you must realise that how many people REALLY take that shit seriously? I've only seen it amongst the "metal" crowds that congregate together. Now, these people are usually idiots (after all, if you pick your friends solely because of music taste, you suck), but even outside of their little frat groups, I dare say none give a shit if a person listens to nu-metal or whatever.

Besides, everybody knows the definition of poser is someone who doesn't listen to MANOWAR.

Because we think nu-metal sounds like garbage, why is this so hard to understand? You are an idiot and you need to stop posting this diarrhea. I mean, good god, I've never seen you post anything worthwhile.



Yeah, because THIS debate hasn't been done to death! Newsflash, pal, "true" and "kvlt," no matter how many times you put quotation marks around them, are hollow terms. Very, very few people actually live out those terms in the way that you mean them. You've been into metal for 20 years and you're not intelligent enough to see that these words are stupid, faux-stereotypical and meaningless? Come on.

People have different tastes; I bet the fans sometimes like things that bands hate, too. What does it mean? Nothing. Liking nu-metal or disliking nu-metal doesn't mean anyone is more open-minded. Being musically open minded doesn't make you a better person or more credible, either.

So the problem is why they are still used, why are they still present in metal circles... Why those words has a sense in my heart?

Man, the Beast/Bezerko tag-team going ape-shit in this bitch.

Regardless, this thread is by and large a very odd one. We are supposed to state why certain people like certain music (essentially) and then try to either disprove or prove our own "close-mindedness" (which I don't even know what that means anymore) but all within the context of what Orby wants us to say....


how ludicrous.

Being positively openminded:
Listening to many genres, but weeding out the shit. Example: Burzum having an abundance of Kraftwerk and Dead Can Dance influence.

Being negatively openminded:
Listening to The Fray and Linkin Park for sake of looking openminded.

The term "cult" certainly means something to me, and I've been using it to refer to obscure and "hallowed" things since long before I knew anything about metal. "Kvlt", written in this way, seems to mostly be a derogatory term applied to certain black metal bands. I think it looks pretty silly when real metal fans use it.

In my book, being "kvlt" and "true," or even "trve," and most other words with a v instead of a u, is all really just about having a laugh. No one is actually actively "trying too hard" to be like this. Well, I hope not for their sake.

I have close to no idea what most of the bands I listen to like. While in some cases I'd raise an eyebrow in vague surprise to hear that some were into, for instance, nu-metal, it wouldn't really make a difference. Why should it?

Use of the phrase 'open-minded' in an OP is pretty much the ultimate warning sign. From there it's not far to 'people only hate this band because they're jealous of their popularity!' Or 'you think band x sucks? I'd like to see you do better!' If the OP has really been into metal for 20 years, I hope at least this is his first time on an internet metal forum and simply doesn't realize how horribly cliche such arguments are around here...

Anyways, 'open-minded' as an identifier of people who listen to numetal is no good. 'Open-minded' is such an abused term, from people with poor taste in music to people who believe in bigfoot and UFOs and 9/11 conspiracies; people always use 'open-mindedness' as a badge of honour legitimizing their beliefs. In the realm of the pseudo-scientific, the proper word is usually 'credulous' but that doesn't sound as good.

When it comes to music, 'open-mindedness' is not a requirement for enjoying Linkin Park. There's nothing to Linkin Park. It has slick production, big budget music videos, Transformers commercials; it's simple, easy-to-rock-out-to hard pop rock. You don't need to be open-minded to enjoy something so totally unchallenging that the media and society drop in your lap. You need to be open-minded to listen to things like extreme metal and noise and industrial and grind and other things that generally sound like complete garbage to the unsuspecting listener. These things are not dropped in your lap and easy to digest, these are the kinds of music that really require an open mind in order to put the time and effort into truly appreciating them.

Terminology aside, there are probably plenty of bands I enjoy whose members have musical tastes that I find appalling. It doesn't seem to be the greatest indicator of quality, however. Pretty sure we just had a thread about this...

I showed a few people an interview where a member of Immolation admits to liking nu metal and they quit listening to the band. These are the people I'm talking about. Where I live metalheads are so silly that I don't even associate with them anymore.

I dont think I would call anybody who listens to nu-metal being open minded. Most people that like that are little kids and people that havent heard good metal. If you listen to it and think your open minded your just an idiot.

So a long running band like Malevolent Creation or Immolation are kids who know nothing?