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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:53 pm 
 

A few weeks ago I read an interview with Jayson Sherlock (Mortification, Horde, Paramaecium, etc.). He's known for playing in some of the most famous Christian extreme metal bands, and he has a reputation as a pretty good drummer. I myself enjoy a lot of what I've heard of his music. The interview makes it apparent that he's also a serious listener of metal, he genuinely enjoys it. He lists as some of his favorite albums material from Death, Cynic, Obituary, and Sepultura. He claims his favorite song is by Darkane.

It makes me wonder, has anyone here ever met a devoutly religious fan of metal? I'd imagine they'd be a minority, given some of themes that are common in metal, along the image much of the public has of it. What were they like? How did they get into metal in the first place? Also, how do their beliefs interact with the music they choose? I've been thinking about this topic ever since I read that interview. Of course there are thousands of musicians in Christian metal bands, and we can talk about them, but what about the ordinary, metal-listening music fan who also takes their faith seriously?

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 676
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:00 pm 
 

I'm fairly sure that I qualify. I don't see anything shocking/contradictory about being a rabid metal fan and also having strong religious beliefs.

>What were they like?

Awesome. :)

> How did they get into metal in the first place?

Heard it in the 80s from radio/MTV/friends. Checked out bands advertised in magazines.

> Also, how do their beliefs interact with the music they choose?

It informs the lyrics I write. It also makes me want to be the best musician that I can be. I certainly don't see any contradiction.

BTW, that's a really old interview. It doesn't mention that he also played with DELIVERANCE on their latest album.
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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 654
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:20 pm 
 

Interesting thing about Sherlock, he's also a huge black metal fan (thus explaining his involvement in Horde). A couple years ago I bought an issue of Terrorizer, and he was in there explaining his love for Darkthrone and Immortal. He also says "I had way too much respect for that style to ever call Horde 'black metal', so I came up with 'unblack metal'".

You could also add Steve Rowe of Mortification. He's the Christian equivalent of Glen Benton...he's been playing death metal for 25 years now and every single one of his songs is about angels killing demons (he literally wrote a song called "God Rulz"). Nowadays you can find live videos of him playing at some bar in front of literally 3 people, having long since lost the ability to growl (he basically just talks deeply now), and giving ridiculously long stage banter about completely meaningless shit that nobody cares about. And any video of the band performing during their prime reveals that his brand of Christianity was extremely cultish and super creepy. But after reading some interviews, he is apparently a fan of old school Sodom and Celtic Frost, as well as classic heavy metal.
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Morn Of Solace
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 326
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:50 pm 
 

Time for a short story! :)

When i was younger i was endlessy browsing Italian extreme metal sites and sometimes i was able to see few very zealous Catholic metalheads literally obsessed with "unblack metal" gathered in small groups in the forums.
They would seek for the most unknown south-american bands, spending a lot of money to get their usually terrible and derivative demo-tapes and hailing them as new black metal classics or as forgotten masterpieces.

Arguing with most of them was practically impossible: they were like a cult in the forum, talking endlessly about the new relases in their own made forum topics and totally ignoring who tried to bash them (like a more creepy version of what happened here in the japanese metal thread! XD) i remember that their heroes were bands like Antestor, Slechtvalk, Deborah, Crimson Moonlight, A Hill to Die Upon, Wintersoul and the incredibly god-awful local legend Animae Capronii.

I slowly became friend with one of them who did reviews: he was an older guy with very strange ideas.
He was like a born-again Christian, that got to know metal though bands like Rotting Christ and Mayhem, and started to develop a deep knowlege of black metal.. but then he "discovered the light" and rejected black metal bands in favor of the ones i mentioned, not listening more to them but neither denying their importance. He also liked NSBM for its supposed "positive vibes" (?!?) and was obsessed with crusades: it was strange to see a guy walking in the streets wearing military clothes, a cross necklace and giant Absurd and Horde patches! XD if a remember well he even wrote small crappy essays to "counter" Deathspell Omega's lyrics!
while i can't say i symphatize with any of his beliefs, i got to know neofolk and martial industrial through him..

...so, in summary, my experiences with religious metalheads are very, very weird to say the least!

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Expedience
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 4135
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:19 pm 
 

I find them intriguing. My question to them is, why do they have to listen to christian metal specifically? The amount of brilliant christian music outside metal is huge, and within metal next to non-existent.

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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:28 pm 
 

Do you mean why do they only listen to Christian metal exclusively, or why in general?

If it's the former I dunno maybe strong beliefs? If the latter well I think that would be quite obvious. I don't know anything about Christian music outside metal though.
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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:10 am 
 

re Mortification: I used to know one of the Guitarists somewhat. I actually ended up buying his record collection off him as by this stage he had pretty much given up on metal entirely and was into terrible Goth EBM and such.
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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:48 am 
 

What's "EBM"?

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cetacean
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:31 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:14 am 
 

I'm a Christian and I love metal, mostly because all non-metal sounds like crap to my ears. Does it have to be more complicated than that? :P
Actually, whenever someone brings up this topic, the following quote always comes to mind:

Yann Martel (Life of Pi) wrote:
There are always those who take it upon themselves to defend God, as if Ultimate Reality, as if the sustaining frame of existence, were something weak and helpless....[i]f they perceive a slight against God...[t]heir faces go red, their chests heave mightily, they sputter angry words. The degree of their indignation is astonishing. Their resolve is frightening.

Because I am a Christian, I do not believe in a god who needs me (or any other human) to defend his existence and actions. The idea that (the) god(s) are somehow dependent on mortals is a pagan belief, not Christian, and the bible repeatedly warns against it (Psalm 50:11-13, Isaiah 66:1-2, etc.) Nor do I believe in a god whose majesty is somehow negatively affected by the sins of men, as though the shouting of a million Tom Arayas or Nergals could make Him slightly less of Himself.

C.S. Lewis wrote:
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.

I can understand Christians who are cautious about the subject matter of the music they listen to, viewing everything with a suspicious eye and preferring to listen to objectively bad music about Jesus** rather than genuinely good music about something else. Until 4-5 years ago, I was exactly like this. But I think at best this is a transitional stage reflecting an inherent weakness in one's faith. Whatever else being a Christian means, it definitely means believing that Christianity is an accurate reflection of reality. If there are Christians who haven't quite reached this stage yet, who feel their spiritual lives would be harmed by listening to metal, then of course it is their duty to avoid it and my duty not to humiliate or tempt them (Romans 14:13-14). But I find it hard to summon up any animosity toward most "anti-Christian" music, simply because it's so manifestly fictional. It would be like getting mad that someone drew a cartoon of some other obvious fantasy like Jesus getting stabbed by a rainbow unicorn.

** Like everything Mortification has done in the last 20 years. Seriously guys. :P
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:36 am 
 

There's tons of devout satanists and pagans in metal. Open your eyes.
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Boychev
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:48 am 
 

I'm not religious but I'm definitely "spiritual" for lack of a term better than that overused and extremely inappropriate in my case cliche and probably will gravitate towards Christianity as I get older. I see nothing incompatible with being religious and being a metalhead, if anything metal is more in tune with religion than, say, indie rock which tends to come from a sort of relativist angle or mainstream pop and hip hop music with its hedonism and egomania. In metal aesthetics evil is very real and easily recognizeable and you can choose to be indifferent about it or embrace it or fight against it, but you cannot deny its existence or try to explain it in morally gray terms (e. g. "People aren't violent because they're evil, they're violent because of their social conditioning, traumatic events from their past, the social and economic problems they face, etc, etc."). To a devout Christian, I imagine metal would work as a call to arms of sorts: there, Satan's right in front of you, what are you gonna do about it?

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I_Crash_and_Burn
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:55 am 
 

No, I didn't ever know a religious/christian etc. being into metal, whichever the subgenre.
The biggest part of my friends I've grown with were, at the beginning, active satanists. Rituals, ceremonials, black masses and things. Me, being a total agnostic, have always lived and let live.

Times have passed, they have all changed and so have I. Now all my friends are unreligious, they quitted satanism at least 10 years ago as they eventually met a girl, married, had some childs, good jobs, bank debts and all these things that you may meet when you're an adult.
I still am a totally uncaring man about any kind of religion. BUt if at first I deplored the ones who believed in a superior entity whichever is its name, now I truly don't give a fuck. Are you a believer? Good for you. I am not but I think we can drink a couple of beers together wwithout quarrelin' if we meet, can't we?

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gothmog665
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:39 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:32 am 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
What's "EBM"?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_body_music
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traxan
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:52 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:50 pm 
 

Tom Araya has been pretty up-front about being Catholic, and not letting Kerry's blasphemous lyrics bother him.

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Lich Coldheart
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:44 pm
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Location: Frozen dead land where sharp winds blow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:09 pm 
 

Well, I'm a Christian myself so...

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
What were they like?

Ugh... Ordinary? o_O
Unifying_Disorder wrote:
How did they get into metal in the first place?

I got into metal owing to Sonata Arctica, Within Temptation and Darkspace.
Unifying_Disorder wrote:
Also, how do their beliefs interact with the music they choose?

They don't. I listen to both Christian (Soul Embraced, Living Sacrifice) and Satanic bands (Acheron, Gorgoroth) and anything in between. Lyrics don't bother me at all.
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cetacean
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:31 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:11 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
Tom Araya has been pretty up-front about being Catholic, and not letting Kerry's blasphemous lyrics bother him.


If Tom Araya is truly sincere in everything I've heard him say about Catholicism, then presumably he's approaching the issue from pretty much the same angle I did (that the worldview of Christianity is so unassailably true and the worldview of Slayer lyrics so inescapably false that the latter are effectively harmless in light of the former). I do think he has a huge blind spot regarding the fraternal responsibilities that "stronger" Christians (i.e. those whose faith cannot be shaken) have toward "weaker" ones (those who might be driven to doubt by something they heard in a metal lyric), but it's still an opinion I can respect even though I don't agree 100% with it.
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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:10 pm 
 

Morn_Of_Solace wrote:
Time for a short story!


I was highly amused by that story. "Unblack" metallers being "kvlt" and "trve"? Since you mentioned them, I've been listening to Antestor's The Forsaken, since I got it in the mail recently. It's actually quite good, contrary to another posters sentiment that good Christian metal is non-existent. I wasn't taken at first, but the album has grown on me.

I_Crash_and_Burn wrote:
No, I didn't ever know a religious/christian etc. being into metal, whichever the subgenre.
The biggest part of my friends I've grown with were, at the beginning, active satanists...

Times have passed, they have all changed and so have I.


I sincerely hope they've repented and were able to free themselves from that past. Messing with the occult is incredibly dangerous. I think I'll pray for them and that intention.

On a different note, that example sort of defeats the question I'm trying to explore in this thread. I was thinking specifically about Christians, but used the inclusive term "religious" because I realized that a lot of metal fans don't live in the West. They might live in Aisia, Africa, or the middle east. So, there could be a metalhead who is a Muslim or Jew but takes their religion seriously. The interesting thing about it is that it defies the public stereotype of dedicated metal listeners, and it also raises interesting questions about how they started listening to a genre which has a strong strain of anti-religious sentiment in it, as well as how they deal with that.

I_Crash_and_Burn wrote:
Are you a believer? Good for you. I am not but I think we can drink a couple of beers together wwithout quarrelin' if we meet, can't we?


We sure can! But I'm more of a bourbon guy than beer, if that's okay with you.

cetacean wrote:
If Tom Araya is truly sincere in everything I've heard him say about Catholicism, then presumably he's approaching the issue from pretty much the same angle I did (that the worldview of Christianity is so unassailably true and the worldview of Slayer lyrics so inescapably false that the latter are effectively harmless in light of the former). I do think he has a huge blind spot regarding the fraternal responsibilities that "stronger" Christians (i.e. those whose faith cannot be shaken) have toward "weaker" ones (those who might be driven to doubt by something they heard in a metal lyric), but it's still an opinion I can respect even though I don't agree 100% with it.


I've actually been thinking quite a bit about Tom Araya because of this question. You're correct about the blind spot, and about the fact that the Christian worldview is objectively true, and nothing changes that. However, I think at the heart of his reasoning is one of the great philosophical errors of our times. He says that Slayer's lyrics will "never interfere with what I believe and how I feel."

However, faith is not solipsism. He treats it as if it's a one-way street, as if religion is entirely about an island of right-thinking, and so long as that exists, everything if fine. Yet faith is actually a two-way street. It's a relationship with Divine Transcendence, and it also requires the believer to live their faith in every facet of their lives. As a Catholic, I have metaphysical beliefs about the nature of being and the universe which I hold to be objectively true. We have a common conception in the west that whatever one believes in private is fine, but once we enter the public square, we leave those beliefs behind and endorse naturalistic premises. Yet, if my beliefs are objectively true, as I believe they are, then such a notion is logically incoherent - my faith colors my entire worldview.

So, Tom Araya works against the very faith he claims to hold when he sings some of those songs. He may believe that God is all-loving, which is true, yet the opposite words come out of his mouth publicly. One can not rightly separate the two.

The truth is, the respectable person in western society is expected to believe in God, and yet act as if he doesn't exist. That's incoherent, and I've come to realize that it's one of the great flaws of post-modern Euro-American society. It is, I think, a poor excuse for religious tolerance. One can have different religions, both fervent about the truth of their religion, and yet live peacefully side-by-side.

I think Tom Araya is rationalizing the contradiction away. It's not difficult to see why. He's been in Slayer since he was 20. His whole career is based off this. Compare Dave Mustaine. He claims to be a Christian now, and says he no longer preforms some songs from his catalog because of that. That's not difficult, because those songs made up a small number of Megadeth songs. In contrast, a huge chunk of Slayer's work is made up of songs which pose an apparent contradiction between his stated beliefs and his actions. It's probably difficult for him to walk away from what is essentially his life's work, and so he rationalizes.

Yet if I were him, I doubt that when God asks me, "Did you love Me with all your heart and soul and your neighbor as yourself?" "Yes, except for the part I held back singing songs which blasphemed your name and glorified evil - but it's okay, it was only for money!" will be an acceptable answer.


Last edited by Unifying_Disorder on Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Indecency
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:15 pm
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Location: Edmonton, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:18 pm 
 

Religious guy here. Got into metal because I like the music. Lyrics don't influence my music choices *that* much since I mostly listen for the music itself. It can leave me with a bad impression of certain bands if their anti-religious lyrics are less about imagery and theme and more about being pretentious and an asshole (see bands like Kingdom of Giants, Within the Ruins, Thy Art is Murder, etc), and in very, very few cases, turn me off from the band entirely if their lyrics are just moronic (Aeon).

You wouldn't really be able to tell that I'm religious at a show except for a few small things, like I won't cheer 'hail satan' when a frontman asks the crowd to, and I'll probably be giving a death stare to the guy wearing the "Jesus is a cunt" shirt every time he gets close to me (I'm not Christian).

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conquer__all
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:49 pm
Posts: 346
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:45 pm 
 

Not one for the politics or Religion debate but being a metal head one with strong Pagan beliefs I just find it silly when xians get into metal as much as the whole Satanist thing because Satan is part of the Judeo-Christian mythology so it's really one in the same. I like Folk metal and Viking metal and neo-folk and if your a Christian or Devil worshipper this music would make no sense to you at all. Plus a lot of bands that are Satanic claim to be athiests; this makes no sense either! Why would you write and sing about something you have no belief in? Just my two cents...
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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:26 pm 
 

conquer__all wrote:
with strong Pagan beliefs

Can you elaborate on this? What exactly does this entail? If I sound patronizing, that's not the intention.

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Foulchrist
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 525
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:40 pm 
 

conquer__all wrote:
Plus a lot of bands that are Satanic claim to be athiests; this makes no sense either! Why would you write and sing about something you have no belief in? Just my two cents...


Summoning actually believe that this is Middle Earth.

Here are some reasons:

1) you enjoy the aesthetic because it fits the sound of the music
2) you want to send a message via relevant metaphors/imagery
3) fun. Hail Satan!
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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:55 pm 
 

So, has anyone else ever actually met a devout Christian who is a big fan of metal?

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:59 pm 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
So, has anyone else ever actually met a devout Christian who is a big fan of metal?


Yeah, me. I have a metal collection that is ridiculous.
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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:01 pm 
 

Foulchrist wrote:
2) you want to send a message via relevant metaphors/imagery


What is the message and why is the imagery necessary?
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Foulchrist
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 525
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:34 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Foulchrist wrote:
2) you want to send a message via relevant metaphors/imagery


What is the message and why is the imagery necessary?


What? What band/albums/songs would you like to discuss the message of, and what part of my post mentioned necessity? :scratch:
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Nochielo
Metalhead

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Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:45 pm 
 

conquer__all wrote:
Why would you write and sing about something you have no belief in? Just my two cents...

Why write songs about dragons? Well, dragons are cool and their lore and mythos are interesting, secondly, there's the obvious rebellion against religious dogmas in general, which I'm not getting into because I don't want to hijack the thread and then there's metaphors, as Foulchrist describes, among many, many other reasons to write about stuff you don't really believe in. Is all your music based on historical facts?
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Erosion of Humanity
Veteran

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:20 am 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
So, has anyone else ever actually met a devout Christian who is a big fan of metal?


Did you just skip all the responses from the religious crowd and proceed to ask the same damn question to which there's already been plenty of answers?

Kind of surprised to see how many people here identify as religious. I knew there was a few here and there but definitely more than I was expecting.
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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:33 am 
 

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
Unifying_Disorder wrote:
So, has anyone else ever actually met a devout Christian who is a big fan of metal?


Did you just skip all the responses from the religious crowd and proceed to ask the same damn question to which there's already been plenty of answers?


No, I read them. I suppose that didn't come out right. I was expecting more "One time I knew this guy..." type stories. I too am a little surprised at the volume of self-reporting. I suppose it makes sense, however. Music tends to be the universal language, as they say. Besides, there are a lot of Christian metal bands. Those have to come from somewhere.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:29 am 
 

i'm pretty into the whole christian thing. Probably classify myself as some sort of mennonite or thereabouts. Pacifist, take the sermon of the mount very seriously, that kinda thing. Re: things like "but folk/viking/pagan metal wouldn't make any sense if you were xtian!" well, it's not really all that different from reading some fantasy in my opinion. Game of thrones might not fit into my JUDEO CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW or what have you, but it's an enjoyable, escapist ride (well, the books are.. still haven't seen the show).

To vaguely paraphrase Nightgaunt, regarding what music I listen to, I tend to draw a distinction between anti- and un-. Like, I'd put Obsequiae or whatever as "unchristian", but I'd put say Rotting Christ under "antichristian", so I listen to the former but find the latter a bit uncomfortable, and conflicting with my general beliefs. Why would you want to listen to something that insults your worldview, know what imma saiyan?
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true_death
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:41 am 
 

I used to know one guy, he was your kind of "I'm a Christian but it's okay guys, really...", the self-professing "moderate Christian" who can listen to black metal and not have a problem with it all. He played in a melodeath band that was sortof friends with my (old school) death metal band. Anyway, he played in that band with another Christian guy, and the two other members can only be described as "redneck Satanists". They would run around vandalizing churches and screaming profanities at children from their car...complete idiots, honestly. I guess it was too much for the one guy, as he later changed his mind about it all...he became a total bible-thumper, literally the most uptight piece of shit you could imagine...posted all kinds of ignorant and hateful shit on Facebook about anyone who disagreed with him (saying he was glad we would all burn in hell), and then started some kind of shitty "old testament metal" band that was basically trying to depict Christianity as somehow "badass & brutal", and actually went as far as to claim that this band would "destroy the entire black metal genre" :lol:. The band has apparently gone silent now, already. It's a shame, the guy was a good guitarist but damn, he was such a fucking idiot...

A couple of my bestfriends were also Christian metalheads at one point in time, but after I started talking to them, over the years they all eased out of religion and are now self-professing atheists like myself. I don't take credit for it, of course...I think my words just made it a bit easier for them to accept some thoughts they already held within themselves, but were afraid to admit due to family pressures. They seem so much happier now, that's all that matters...
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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:56 pm 
 

caspian wrote:
i'm pretty into the whole christian thing. Probably classify myself as some sort of mennonite or thereabouts. Pacifist, take the sermon of the mount very seriously, that kinda thing. Re: things like "but folk/viking/pagan metal wouldn't make any sense if you were xtian!" well, it's not really all that different from reading some fantasy in my opinion. Game of thrones might not fit into my JUDEO CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW or what have you, but it's an enjoyable, escapist ride (well, the books are.. still haven't seen the show).

To vaguely paraphrase Nightgaunt, regarding what music I listen to, I tend to draw a distinction between anti- and un-. Like, I'd put Obsequiae or whatever as "unchristian", but I'd put say Rotting Christ under "antichristian", so I listen to the former but find the latter a bit uncomfortable, and conflicting with my general beliefs. Why would you want to listen to something that insults your worldview, know what imma saiyan?


I think this is probably the only thing I've ever agreed with Caspian about. Cheers.
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kalervon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:59 pm 
 

The title says "devoutly religious". My first impression of what this means is someone who practices some rituals associated with a religion, while of course being sincere and truly believing in the doctrine and the importance of the rituals. So, prayer, meditation, prosternation, reading scriptures, listening to a religious authority, paying homage to some statue in a temple of sorts, etc - several hours a week, if not several hours a day, makes one devoutly religious.

But the OP sort of opened the thread to include people serious about their faiths (whatever that means). Many people said.. "Yeah I'm a Christian"; but they didn't say anything illustrating that they were devoutly so. They may say, well, "being devout means being sincere and serious, and I am". I don't think that's very unusual then, and so the thread would have no importance. 'Cause ff course there are people who have Christian bumper stickers and go to church or evangelical conference center once in a while and listen to metal.

But what about Jehovah's Witnesses (I understand they spend several hours a week at the Kingdom Hall, mandatorily, and do the door-to-door thing, while surrendering 10% of their salary to the organisation), or what about people who have been ordained priest, minister or deacon (and remain practicing), or neo-evangelical preachers (who often incorporate Christian rock in their events; but what about metal?), etc... I guess there aren't much.

I have known a kid whose father was a Pentecotist minister, when I was a kid, and he was forbidden to listen to real metal. All he could listen to was Stryper (pre-Against The Law), Bloodgood, Shout, Amy Grant and Bride. The kid was not devoutly religious, but his parents were. Once he made me a mix-tape, and so I made one in return, and I chose all the anti-preacher songs that were around at the time. That was very easy, so it had Miracle Man, Make Me Laugh, Bulletboys' Shoot the Preacher Down, etc, etc.

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Indecency
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:38 pm 
 

kalervon wrote:
I have known a kid whose father was a Pentecotist minister, when I was a kid, and he was forbidden to listen to real metal. All he could listen to was Stryper (pre-Against The Law), Bloodgood, Shout, Amy Grant and Bride. The kid was not devoutly religious, but his parents were. Once he made me a mix-tape, and so I made one in return, and I chose all the anti-preacher songs that were around at the time. That was very easy, so it had Miracle Man, Make Me Laugh, Bulletboys' Shoot the Preacher Down, etc, etc.


So you made a 'fuck-your-dad' mixtape? Are you sure you guys were friends?

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kalervon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:28 pm 
 

It was pretty much meant as a 'wake up' tape.

I could have put outright satanic songs to piss him off, that was not my intent at all.

We weren't friends, just acquaintances. I haven't seen him in 25 years, but his brother popped up as a friend of a friend of a friend of mine on Facebook recently, and I asked him about his brother, but he ignored me. Perhaps the tape has something to do with this, indeed.

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Lord_Brendan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:29 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
I used to know one guy, he was your kind of "I'm a Christian but it's okay guys, really...", the self-professing "moderate Christian" who can listen to black metal and not have a problem with it all. He played in a melodeath band that was sortof friends with my (old school) death metal band. Anyway, he played in that band with another Christian guy, and the two other members can only be described as "redneck Satanists". They would run around vandalizing churches and screaming profanities at children from their car...complete idiots, honestly. I guess it was too much for the one guy, as he later changed his mind about it all...he became a total bible-thumper, literally the most uptight piece of shit you could imagine...posted all kinds of ignorant and hateful shit on Facebook about anyone who disagreed with him (saying he was glad we would all burn in hell), and then started some kind of shitty "old testament metal" band that was basically trying to depict Christianity as somehow "badass & brutal", and actually went as far as to claim that this band would "destroy the entire black metal genre" :lol:. The band has apparently gone silent now, already. It's a shame, the guy was a good guitarist but damn, he was such a fucking idiot...

A couple of my bestfriends were also Christian metalheads at one point in time, but after I started talking to them, over the years they all eased out of religion and are now self-professing atheists like myself. I don't take credit for it, of course...I think my words just made it a bit easier for them to accept some thoughts they already held within themselves, but were afraid to admit due to family pressures. They seem so much happier now, that's all that matters...


I want to hear the Old Testament band hahaha I once said on here that as a joke I would start a pro-Westboro band :p

I have known a religious "metalhead". Listened to nothing but the big 4, Maiden etc and Volbeat style stuff though
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:23 pm 
 

I know that Ron Eriksen (a.k.a. Ron Daniel) of Viking was a born again Christian, and became a pastor after Viking split up (in other words, the metal version of the rap superstar Ma$e).

He reformed Viking a few years back, and they have put out a new album. He did say that he hasn't been a pastor in close to a decade now, though, in an interview promoting it, and hasn't even attended church in a long time.

He could be a "lapsed" Christian; either way, he doesn't seem to be the least bit judgemental towards non-Christians.

I'm pretty sure Joe Rico of Sacrifice is a devout Christian. I remember his Facebook page (when he had one) had his religious belief listed as "Christian", and I am pretty sure he had "The Bible" as one of his favorite books.

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true_death
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:47 pm 
 

I'm pretty sure Oscar Garcia (Nausea, ex-Terrorizer) is Catholic, and obviously Pete Sandoval is now a Jesus-freak. No disrespect to those who believe in God, but I really feel bad for Pete, he comes across as a broken man who turned to Christ out of desperation and fear. Just reading some interviews and observing his Facebook page, it all seems like he's pretending, putting on a show and trying to hide from "uncomfortable" thoughts (I say that out of experience - that's how I was when I was a Christian).
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Deathwish238
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:38 pm 
 

I'd be curious to hear from some devout Muslim metalheads. Islam forbids the culture from other cultures, especially non-Islamic music.

To you believing Christians, music is not as harmless as you make it out to be. It does affect your mind, and therefore it affects your future actions and thoughts, as well as beliefs. A wise Christian that values their Christianity would stay away from death and black metal, they will influence them to be less Christian.

conquer__all wrote:
Not one for the politics or Religion debate but being a metal head one with strong Pagan beliefs I just find it silly when xians get into metal as much as the whole Satanist thing because Satan is part of the Judeo-Christian mythology so it's really one in the same. I like Folk metal and Viking metal and neo-folk and if your a Christian or Devil worshipper this music would make no sense to you at all. Plus a lot of bands that are Satanic claim to be athiests; this makes no sense either! Why would you write and sing about something you have no belief in? Just my two cents...


There are atheistic forms of Satanism where Satan is more of a guide and role model than an entity that exists. Satan is quite accepting and promotes self growth and excellence, and really, his other names extend far before Christianity. Strangely, Satan appears to not utilize fear as a method for control(dogma) and worship, yet the God that is said to be good rules with an iron fist and threats of eternal torment.

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Indecency
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:45 pm 
 

Deathwish238 wrote:
I'd be curious to hear from some devout Muslim metalheads. Islam forbids the culture from other cultures, especially non-Islamic music.


That's not true. Muslims are definitely supposed to be wary of non-believers and whatnot, but there is no forbidding like you're saying. A Muslim man could even marry unsinfully some redneck small town Catholic girl in Texas, as long as she's a virgin.

The incredibly devout Muslims don't listen to music whatsoever, so you'll never find a super-devout Muslim who listens to metal. Metal is also so taboo in middle-eastern countries that the guys who typically listen to it aren't Muslims. The most likely place to find metalhead Muslims is outside of middle eastern countries (US, Canada, Indonesia, etc).

Deathwish238 wrote:
There are atheistic forms of Satanism where Satan is more of a guide and role model than an entity that exists. Satan is quite accepting and promotes self growth and excellence, and really, his other names extend far before Christianity. Strangely, Satan appears to not utilize fear as a method for control(dogma) and worship, yet the God that is said to be good rules with an iron fist and threats of eternal torment.


I can't speak for Christianity, but that's not the case in Islam. In Islam, satan is a djinn who refused to bow to Adam, the first human, because he thought he was above Adam. He was cast to hell for it. To try and prove how low and pathetic humanity is, he said he will subtly try and corrupt all of the living humans into acting evil and committing sin so that they can bring them down into hell with him. By this version (and not some other religion or some form of Satanism), worshipping satan won't make you an agent or follower of him. He may mislead you into thinking that, but once you go to hell, you're getting tortured for eternity because you let yourself get corrupted. From God's point of view, you are his newest creation, a near-perfect creation made in his image (which is why you have to abstain from things like tattoos and piercings; to not ruin the image he created). He wants you to succeed and stay free of sin, but free will is both humanity's greatest asset and greatest flaw.

You can definitely argue as much as you'd like that God is fear-inducing, but based on the current Abrahamic religions (and not various versions of Satanism), satan is NOT an allowing, welcoming being. If he is made out to be that way, it's either a misperception, or it's a different and/or altered religion.

I digress though. I'm going pretty far off topic here.

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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:01 pm 
 

Deathwish238 wrote:
To you believing Christians, music is not as harmless as you make it out to be. It does affect your mind, and therefore it affects your future actions and thoughts, as well as beliefs. A wise Christian that values their Christianity would stay away from death and black metal, they will influence them to be less Christian.


I don't think this is very accurate. While I agree to an extent that stuff like pro-Satan/anti-Christian is not good for ones faith it's ultimately up to the individual to decide what is right for themselves. I strongly disagree that death and black metal on the whole should be avoided. I'll just quote Caspian's post down here because he said it very, very well.

caspian wrote:
i'm pretty into the whole christian thing. Probably classify myself as some sort of mennonite or thereabouts. Pacifist, take the sermon of the mount very seriously, that kinda thing. Re: things like "but folk/viking/pagan metal wouldn't make any sense if you were xtian!" well, it's not really all that different from reading some fantasy in my opinion. Game of thrones might not fit into my JUDEO CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW or what have you, but it's an enjoyable, escapist ride (well, the books are.. still haven't seen the show).

To vaguely paraphrase Nightgaunt, regarding what music I listen to, I tend to draw a distinction between anti- and un-. Like, I'd put Obsequiae or whatever as "unchristian", but I'd put say Rotting Christ under "antichristian", so I listen to the former but find the latter a bit uncomfortable, and conflicting with my general beliefs. Why would you want to listen to something that insults your worldview, know what imma saiyan?
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Couldn't Untappd also be an excellent name for an app that helps virgins locate virgins? Sort of like Grindr for the celibate? This has to have confused tons of people by now.

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