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The song "After Forever" by Black Sabbath
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Author:  heavymetalbackwards [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  The song "After Forever" by Black Sabbath
Lyrically, I think this is one of the most interesting songs in the early years of metal. I've heard interpretations of it which varied from the words being a parody of fundamentalist Christianity to promoting Christianity. I've also heard that it was an attempt to rid the band of accusations of Satanism.

My personal interpretation of the song is that belief or lack of belief in God or a religion should not stem from social pressure, but come from inside one's heart. The line "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above?" is my favorite, and I think it reflects my interpretation.

To me, the most troubling line is "God is the only way to love" because I vehemently disagree. I think God is one of many ways to love, and that love is a common characteristic shared by Christians, Atheists, Pagans, Buddhists, Satanists, and people of all beliefs. Perhaps the line was not meant to be taken literally as for all people, but rather just the narrator. In other words, God is so pivotal to him personally that it is the only way he can love and it hurts him that others try to kill his faith in God.

Does anybody have any interesting information or interpretations of this song? What are your opinions of it both musically and lyrically. And, most importantly, how does this song reflect or not reflect the current and/or stereotypical ideologies associated with metal, and perhaps with doom metal specifically.
Author:  NotGlib [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Geezer, who is Catholic, wrote the lyrics of the song as a response to the people who used to bother Sabbath about their supposed Satanism. I recall this from an interview with Ozzy and Tony explaining it, so it's not hearsay or theory. It's Geezer more or less saying what's written.

I find it incredibly annoying, however. It's a kick-ass song musically, but I strongly dislike being preached to in anyway.

EDIT: Here's one with Geezer from roughly 15 years ago.

Quote:
"I used to read a lot about all that. But any lyrics that I or Ozzy wrote were actually warnings against Satanism, telling people that if you are going to dabble in that, just be careful... I had a very strict Catholic upbringing, so I read a lot about Satan. But we never, ever promoted Satanism or black magic, we only used it as a reference, and it wasn't our only topic. We wrote a lot of science fiction lyrics, anti-Vietnam war songs, the occult was only dealt with in three or four songs. But people completely misinterpreted them, the way they always do... Sabbath even did a blatantly pro-God, Christian hymn type of song, 'After Forever', and people still took it the wrong way. They thought we were taking the piss out of it!"
Author:  MercyfulSatyr [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:42 am ]
Post subject: 
He said he had a "Catholic upbringing." Was he still Catholic in the '70s, though? Considering he penned the lyrics, his viewpoint on religion at that point in time could either affirm it as a pro-God song or label it as more of a critique.

What I personally interpret the lyrics as resembles more of the latter theme I brought up. The song seems to call ignorant those who blindly dismiss religion as fallacy; however, more implicitly, it suggests the same of people who too easily assert their "faith." Some lines, such as "God is the only way to love," appear deliberately absurd, while others, philosophical in nature, provide arguments to support each cause (atheism and Christianity).

I believe it was an intentional jab at those who called Sabbath sacrilegious after only taking a glance at their lyrics and sound instead of proper analysis. The lyrics reinforce this idea because they require a degree of insight before it is possible to form a justifiable conclusion.

Musically, it's awesome. It foreshadows the band's direction in the latter half of the 1970s, being more progressive than the mainly doom-obsessed remainder of the album.
Author:  Catachthonian [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The song "After Forever" by Black Sabbath
heavymetalbackwards wrote:
love is a common characteristic shared by Buddhists, Satanists

No and no.
Author:  Vlachos [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Sabbath even did a blatantly pro-God, Christian hymn type of song, 'After Forever', and people still took it the wrong way. They thought we were taking the piss out of it!"

You mean you weren't? Oh.
Author:  Acrobat [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
It's a very weird song, lyrically speaking. I see it as a sort of desperate plee to take away some of the heat from the religious nuts that Sabbath were getting (and still got after 1971). Basically, "We don't really care, we just want to play our music, man" (said in a stoned, Brummie accent). Lyrically, it's quite confusing - but I don't know, I enjoy that sort of thing. :lol: The song's attempts do seem somewhat feeble when we consider that the religious "I've got pictures of Jesus in the back of my car" types aren't going to actually listen to lyrics when you've got a name like Black Sabbath and your first album had an inverted cross on it.

Maiden did a similar thing after The Number of the Beast with the song 'Revelations'. I remember Bruce saying something about how it was the song the Jesus-freaks were supposed to like but they didn't, of course.
Author:  Tantalus [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I was never convinced by the 'message' of this song because of the way Ozzy delivers the line "do you wanna see the Pope on the end of a rope..." sounding totally like he does want to see said Pope hanging from said hypothetical hemp.
Author:  heavymetalbackwards [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The song "After Forever" by Black Sabbath
Catachthonian wrote:
heavymetalbackwards wrote:
love is a common characteristic shared by Buddhists, Satanists

No and no.


Maybe you could claim that certain denominations of satanists are against love (I really don't know), but certainly Buddhists aren't. Am I missing something?

EDIT: I think I get what you're saying, about how Buddhists want to transcend earthly values. Still, regardless, most have this emotion.
Author:  Catachthonian [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The song "After Forever" by Black Sabbath
heavymetalbackwards wrote:
EDIT: I think I get what you're saying, about how Buddhists want to transcend earthly values.

Exactly. :D
Author:  Twisted_Psychology [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Tantalus wrote:
I was never convinced by the 'message' of this song because of the way Ozzy delivers the line "do you wanna see the Pope on the end of a rope..." sounding totally like he does want to see said Pope hanging from said hypothetical hemp.


I agree, that line always made me give the song a more sarcastic interpretation...

Awesome song though.
Author:  heavymetalbackwards [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The song "After Forever" by Black Sabbath
Catachthonian wrote:
heavymetalbackwards wrote:
EDIT: I think I get what you're saying, about how Buddhists want to transcend earthly values.

Exactly. :D


:) Okay, I getcha.

But still, Buddhists have their own idea of love:
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/ ... dLove.html

"The Buddhist tradition encourages people to develop four different forms of love, called the four Brahmaviharas: loving-kindness (metta), compassion (karuna), sympathetic joy (mudita), and, finally, an emotion that we don't generally equate with love, equanimity (upekkha). These are all forms of love because they all include a warm, tender, sympathetic attitude of the heart toward oneself or others."

Also, from my understanding of satanism, they would embrace love too, but perhaps only as a cheap human emotion that needs to be satiated.
Author:  Abominatrix [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject: 
I think the lyrics are deliberately made to be pretty plain. There's nothing hidden, no covert messages of sarcasm. It's basically the same notion that Trouble puts forward somewhat more articulately in their early lyrics. "God is the only way to love" should probably be interpreted as "God *is* Love".. In Trouble's lyrics, the words "god" and "love" are often interchangeable and in fact they usually use the latter word to avoid, I suppose, being lumped in with all those christian bands and to have a more universal appeal. Back to "After Forever", though, it'ss a warning, like many of Sabbath's songs are.

yes, I find the lyrics a little bit annoying, too, but what can you do? Still love the album.

Edit: That'd be funny if Ozzy and Geezer got into a fight over how the man was supposed to sing the lyrics. "No, no, look man, you sound happy about the pope being on the end of a rope!! Sound like it's terrible! Coem on! Stop taking the piss, this is serious!"
Author:  FateMetal [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Funkiest Sabbath riff ever!

Back then, I thought the lyrics were a tad preachy and annoying-on "Master of Reality", Sabbath seem to be all for Christ. "Into The Void" has the line; "Leave the Earth to Satan and his slaves/Leave them to their future in their grave..."
Author:  Chaosmonger [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've always wondered about the way the last line of the song is written in the booklet. I don't have it in front of me but I believe it's something along the lines of:
"Or will you still sneer at all that you hear
Yes! I think it's too late"

Which makes it seem like the song features two people..one asking all the questions and the other one giving his answer at the end.
Author:  TooHuman [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
You know, after probably hundreds of listens to this song I'd never even considered that they were being serious with the lyrics. Shame, really.
Author:  Karnstein_Records [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  -
Religious symbology was pretty heavy in the 60s and 70s, probably why they wore crosses a lot. They probably didn't put that much thought into it, just "lets write a song dealing with religion".
Author:  Pippin_Took [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: -
Karnstein_Records wrote:
Religious symbology was pretty heavy in the 60s and 70s, probably why they wore crosses a lot. They probably didn't put that much thought into it, just "lets write a song dealing with religion".


Didn't they [Sabbath] start wearing crosses following Geezer's (alleged!) waking up to find a back figure menacing him from the foot of his bed?! :p
Author:  awm [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
My interpretation of the song has always been that it is pro-Christianity. I don't see how to take it any other way. It was sort of jarring, but whatever. Lyrically unusual as it may be, it's a great song.

The only other song that has baffled me in this way is the Sex Pistols' "Bodies" which seemingly has a very pro-life theme, but Lydon tries to deny it.
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