This is just like the Mercyful Fate thread, except with the Canadian power/speed metal band Anvil. Most of the gem thrash bands claim that Anvil had a major influence on them, but for some reason didnt get the same credit as Mercyful Fate, Venom, Diamond Head, Priest, Maiden etc...

Is it because:

a) They were from Canada
b) They assosiated themselves with commercial/glam bands such as Whitesnake and Bon Jovi
c) They arrived after the explosion of the NWOBHM scene
d) They were unsigned
e) Shitty manager
f) Simply unlucky

i personally enjoy Anvil's records and performances, but i want to know your opinions on why they didnt reach the success they deserved.
They just recently released a film, a thirteenth album and are working on a new one called Juggernaught; and might finally reach success after their prime (they're in their 50s and broke).

I'm not convinced that they're actually an amazing band or anything; perfectly listenable and entertaining, but I wouldn't generally seek out the music to listen to it. Some of the earlier songs sounded pretty good; I need to listen to more of the music before I stick with my vaguely pre-emptive judgment. The movie on the other hand was nothing short of awesome - it plays out like a mockumentary and I love that about it.

What I really like about Anvil is their dedication - even when their career as a band seemed to fall apart, they stuck it out, and just seeing Lips in particular talking in the doc, you could see he was obsessed and convinced almost to the point of craziness that Anvil could and would make it.

That kind of dedication is rare, and that's clearly one of the reasons they are making a successful comeback now on the back of the story.

As to why they fell off the radar in the first place...I imagine many of the factors you suggested are relevant, but I can't say I know enough about their history.

I must admit, I'm one of those people who had only vaguely heard of them until recently. I couldn't believe it yesterday morning when Video Hits started up (a crappy MTV style 'chart videos and random interviews' show), and there was a 'Story of Anvil' poster behind the afro-ed presenter.

Then it turned out they were the guests for the whole show and they got to pick videos! Hell, they even talked about their tour with Saxon, which is surely the first and last time they get mentioned on that show. They'll be the highlight of the Soundwave Festival next year, that's for sure.

I'm sure that when they talked about touring with AC/DC, most of the country must have suddenly thought "Oh, well they must be alright then."

<edit>

What the hell, they were even on the 7pm project. Channel 10 must have had some kind of multi-show contract with them. Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUB-zNQFE4s

http://videohits.com.au/video.htm

I don't think they're underappreciated around here:

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=49291&highlight=anvil

Or at least not good enough to warrant the same succes as the aforementioned bands.

I actually discovered them through Benediction´s cover of 'Forged In Fire' and shortly after i purchased the original album and still like it today. They sure didn´t reinvent the wheel, but they are still pretty solid (like thousands of other bands, that are under the radar).

They are worshiped on another forum I'm a member of. Seems like they are relatively unknown to the mainstream crowd (as opposed to say, Iron Maiden) but in metal circles they are praised.

I have to admit, I had no idea about them until the promo of their new movie came out a few months back.
To be fair though, I don't particular go on my own accord looking for new Speed Metal bands to listen to. They seem like a decent band so I may look further into them.

They are insanely popular. I don't get this whole thing that they are "unpopular and unlucky" that everyone seems to think, ever since vh1 had that movie about them.

Anyone know where I can watch the doc online?

Perhaps in the metal underground, but to mainstream society, they've been off the radar since the mid-80s.

I enjoy their material a great deal. As I mentioned in that other Anvil topic, their albums won't blow you off your feet, but they're a very good metal band that knows how to rock hard and play fast. Lyrics that aren't exactly crafted by a master wordsmith, but will have you singing along despite their slight inanity. Listen to Metal on Metal and just try to fight the urge to sing along with Kudlow when he commands you to "Keep on rocking!"

They possess the Motorhead gene in which they don't strive to be anything more than a good time and succeed almost every time. Even their later stuff is pretty good even as they got a bit harder in the 90s and 00s without sacrificing quality.

As for why they didn't get popular, I think not being signed is a major reason. Someone said they debuted too late, but their first album was in 1981, somewhat in the middle of the NWOBHM (yes, I know they're Canadian) and were fairly popular before 1984. After 1983's Forged in Fire, they apparently got caught in a bad contract and were unable to release anything between 1983 and 1987, a gap that was rather large when a lot of underground bands were releasing new albums every year or every other. Even then, I don't know. They may have not been lucky enough even with a major label contract. Raven, another unappreciated band, managed to get a contract with Atlantic and still failed to gain notoriety in the mainstream's eyes.

Anvil is probably one of the most underrated gems, but a gem they are. There's no way to argue how awesome they are.

These points are ridiculous. Canada has its share of wildly praised bands; a prime example is Rush, who got huge not long before Anvil formed. And association with extremely popular commercial bands would definitely not hinder their own popularity (though it could possibly demerit their credibility in certain metal circles).



These are feasible, though. Luck is an enormous factor in the success of most bands, especially within metal. Management is also important - Maiden got big partly on account of their excellent management. Unsigned bands also tend not to get as much mass recognition as those on a major label.[/quote]

I think point b is a product of a particular trailer for the documentary, which mentions a few big names to contrast their success with Anvil's relative obscurity. Anvil didn't really associate with those bands, they simply shared a stage with them at some point. While Anvil flirted with a commercial sound at times, Lips and Reiner didn't really want to compromise too much, which is why Allison and later Dickson exited the band.

Also, they weren't unsigned. Part of the problem is that at their peak around Metal on Metal and Forged in Fire, they were with Attic Records, which was notoriously something of a rip off.

Wikipedia (I know...) mentions that their manager got them away from Attic, but failed to follow up on a promised major label contract which led to the 4 year delay in between FiF and SoS. Perhaps the OP is referring to that?

Indeed, several years ago their shows even in their home city did not draw that much of a crowd, but those who like their particular blend of rock and speed metal are always convinced by their performances. I don't get why the band being Canadian would have influenced their popularity in the slightest...this country has had several bands flourishing in the public eye the world over on all sorts of grounds, including talent (Rush, anyone?) and other dubious distinctions (Nickleback). I do believe they often fell victim to label bullshit in the 1980s and by the time they were really on their own feet as far as that goes and recording albums devoid of horrible excuses for baladry and glam-wannabe songs the time when such a band could receive notoriety had past already, at least for North Americans.

Edit: I think that time gap already mentioned between their third and fourth albums did hurt them a lot, too, but more to the point, 'Strength of Steel" was a real disaster, mostly because of the production. It's a shame, too, because it does include a couple of their best songs ("Paper General" is probably one of my absolute favourite tunes from the band), but there's no way any band could hope to capture many hearts with a sound like that. Just everything bad about the excesses of 1980s studio production transferred onto what should have been a stellar metal record.

Anvil have definately been overappreciated as of late.

In comparison to what? While there are other bands from classic eras that I enjoy more than I do Anvil, most of them haven't stuck to their guns with the tenacity and zeal with which that band has. Even Manilla Road didn't release a damned thing in the 90s, a decade that was not generally appreciative of more traditional forms of metal as a rule, yet ANvil kept churning out albums, and arguably were faster and harder the less people paid attention to them. They deserve respect and I won't begrudge them the success that some of my favourite bands don't seem to be receiving.

Overappreciated... unlucky? Perhaps. Few i met that know or heard of this band.

Anvil seems to have been more of a "cult following" band for sure. after viewing the awesome, and rather depressing "The story of Anvil" (which i recommend everyone see) it came across to me that their relative lack of success was down to a mixture of bad luck (Lemmy says one of the most important things about success is simply being at exactly the right place at the right time) and a sort of inept-ness at the business/promotional commercial side of being in a band. like they obviously had the thorough passion for it - and jammed intensively even in their teens - coming up with a forward-thinknig, ahead of the curve sound in some respects (heavy, speed metal), but much like me - probably lack the business savvy sorta commercially aware approach that some bands have. the sort of "always going after shows, contacting people and really just generally going into the thing with a commercial aim" kinda thing that some bands are all about.

They are popular NOW since they released their movie, but ive seen videos of them playing in europe in front of 5 people... the only place they have really been popular over the years is Japan. if you dont consider being broke and having 4 or 5 'true fans' for 30 years "unpopular and unlucky", then i wonder what you would consider that

ANVIL was huge in the 80's and i'm sure they seen some $$ back then, theres no doubt about it!

The grunge/alternative movement came in the early 90's which eliminated many mainstream metal/glam bands from the 80's sucess wise as they became "uncool" so record companys were ditching bands like Anvil left right and centre.

Its patethic that a band has to release a movie when in their 50's crying about how they didn't suceed or see any money and finally start gaining a audience back by doing so!

Metal isn't about money, metal is about metal.

http://www.sunriserecords.com/cd/instore_anvil.php


FREE ANVIL show Sept 22 in Toronto!!!

true, but remember, theyre not a black metal band; so they're not satisfied with 5 people attending their shows...

and considering they're broke, there is nothing wrong with trying make money in metal since they haven't changed their sound (unlike metallica)

If they cared about money that much, would they still be together after so long with none of it? They wanted to make it big, fame and glory, live the dream; money is only a part of that, I would have thought.

I'd listened to this band vaguely before seeing the doco. I honestly fell in love with Lips and Robb after watching it. Its a fantastic watch.

Not only are they appearing on mainstream Australian tv shows, now their CD 'This is Thirteen' is for sale in JB Hi-fi next to Endgame. Crazy times.

I heard Anvil tell their story on BBC World's THE STRAND about how they were opening for all the huge bands in the 80's and poised for greatness...and then things just didn't happen!
IMO, they'd have travelled the glam road next and so their return years later after not "making it" sees them stick to Power territory which is what I need from them! I still play Forged In Fire!

They are just money whores. At least that's what I got from watching the documentary. I'm glad they failed. If you make money off your music that's just an added bonus not the goal.

I personally think it's related to them touring with glam bands. Before I picked up one of their albums, I vaguely remember them being attached to the glam scene somehow and that is what steered me away from every checking them out.

Uh, they're widely concidered a classic act at least by the circles I communicate with. Yeah they aren't big as Maiden but there can be only so many HUGE bands.

Oh come on, are you kidding? Continuing on with a band that plays to bars with 5 people for 25 years because you believe in your music counts as money whoring? Your post is the polar opposite of reason.

Well said. Which documentary was he watching? Coz it certainly wasn't the one I saw.

If anything, they actually deserve some money now, and I'm happy to see them at least starting to get some.

Hm, I think if they'd been "money whores" they would have altered their sound to be more acceptable, which would have been an easy thing for them to do. THey used to record soppy awful songs on their 80s albums (one or two) but after a while realised that this wasn't good and canned the idea altogether. They totally went against the grain in the 90s by playing speed metal.

I still haven't seen the documentary by the way. I've been fairly skeptical about it too and figured it wouldn't bring much new to the table. I've seen Anvil live close to a dozen times; I think I know what they're about.

You've seen Anvil a dozen times and don't want to see the documentary? I find that strange - it might not tell you anything you don't already know, but its just a brilliant piece of film work. It's funny, sad and immensely entertaining.

Well, I'd like to see it sometime, but in the right company, I guess. A lot of local people who aren't even fans of the band have seen it and really liked it .. it's quite amusing to me.

One must make money in order to be considered a money whore.

And I'm usually not one for revisions to albums be it remixes or album/track deletions, but I don't think anyone would miss songs like Stop Me and Never Deceive Me if they removed them from all future copies. Stop Me isn't enough to ruin Metal on Metal, but it's so out of place from the rest of the album, it's actually painful.

Way to miss the point completely you FUCKING IDIOT.

Jesus Christ. Apparantly you have problems following even the most simple things. They wanted to be rock stars! Money comes with it, yes, but that is not their main goal.