I'm certainly not what you would call a metal expert.

That said, how much heavier can any of the extreme metal genres (Black,Death) get?

It seems to me, to get much heavier than music is right now, it will become atonal, and so fast playing that it would just be a wall of noise.

Have we reached the limits? Am I just crazy?

Metal will continue to push the limits of extremity, mostly as a reaction to increasingly tame and weak music. However who cares, I personally want well constructed music, not music that only serves as a tool for scaring people. Anyways I think the "pinnacle" of extremity thus far is Conqueror/Revenge, who also exhibit decent song construction.

I'm inclined to agree that Metal can't get any slower, faster, noisier, more technical or more "deep" as I think all those extremes have already been explored and - dare I say it - exploted to their maximum effect. It would take the invention of some radical new instrument, I guess...?

inb4dieselharp

Edit: Though having said that, metal incorporating breakbeats might open a new avenue of speed / ridiculous drumming.

This same question was probably asked when Slayer was getting popular.

Of course it can get more extreme, this is such a ridiculous question. I'm sure back in 1970 you would have been saying THAT'S IT, BLACK SABBATH HAS WRAPPED EVERYTHING UP.

You don't think it can get more 'deep'? Why? That's just based on the creativity of the individual, which can never really have a limit put on it.

I don't know if we can top this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lom6PXAyJD0

same has been said constantly in the past and look only recently we had the new celtic frost, the main riff of the song ground is heavy as fuck.

Also heavyness in metal is not achieved by pure speed, its achieved by the guitar sound. Hence why doom often is heavier than most brutal death.

Yeah. I for one consider Tomb of the Mutilated to be heavy, just because of how bottom-heavy the sound is.

It was a bad choice of word. I meant "depth of sound" as opposed to emotional depth. I don't know how else to phrase it.

Brain Drill - Apocalyptic Feasting is the pinnacle of heaviness and extremity. There will never be an album that could top that. The limits have already been reached.

More people should interpret that as a parody album. Some of the guitar parts are just too ridiculous to be serious, same goes for bass.

Heavy is a subjective term in regards to all of metal. Different people define or percieve what "heavy" means. When I think of heavy, I think of an Electric Wizard type sound. When someone thinks of brutal, they don't think heavy but they think of (fill-in-the blank) death metal band etc.

Things would certainly be getting heavier a lot faster if everyone wasn't fucking around playing weak imitation 80s Bay Area thrash.

There's some pretty heavy Bay Area brutal death metal out there though. Severed Savior.

If we're talking the kind of heavy that overwhelms you with a bassy and thick production, I think Defeated Sanity and Eternal Suffering are the pinnacles of that kind of heavy.

They are not a parody band, it's just some people who can't take that level of "wank" seriously. Personally I love that album.

i find braindrill's song to be just directionless boring pieces of music.

I have heard that album, and it is one of the reasons I made this thread.

It is ridiculously heavy. I mean, you can probably make a heavier album, but isnt it just going to start sounding like noise, and not music anymore?

I don't mean to sound like an old man bitching about his kids rock and roll, I am just curious as to what the future will hold?

Will Black or Death or Funeral Doom top the Billboard rock singles section in 20 years?

I don't think that Braindrill album is any kind of pinnacle of extremity. It's extreme, sure, but the pinnacle? In my mind extremity/brutality is more of an mindset or a mood conveyed through the music, rather than solely an instrumental/production factor. I'd call this song pretty goddamn extreme, for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lynM9h2fVG4

It might not be as heavy or fast as Brain Drill, but it's just so fucking punishing and unrelenting.

For a second there I thought I was listening to a bastardized Suicide Silence.

Yes, because otherwise creative and talented artists are playing retro-thrash simply because it's 'in'! Municipal Waste would be breaking boundaries otherwise!

No one here knows what's truly the heaviest and more extreme brutal shit in existence...Brain Drill? C'mon now they are fast and technical but really not that heavy, you don't create HEAVINESS by mixing guitar styles of Necrophagist and Origin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBP8imm03Mo

I'll just leave this one right here...because I can't honestly think of a way to have it beat

And that shows that you can't be too extreme without eventually going out of the metal 'zone'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTSoNcGppGk

I think I'll leave this one here as well

All will become Drone.

Maybe it will evolve to be like them combining drone doom, along with brutal speed death metal simultaneously, along with a barrage of blast beats all the way through?

Come to think of it, that might sound pretty cool.

To me, a band's "heaviness" is a subjective trait, that varies between other bands, band-members, and the fans of any given band. Each definition and description of a band's given "heaviness" varies from person to person.

Within the black and death metal sub-genres, I believe that a band's "heaviness" can be improved through the use of more harsh, noisy, and perhaps un-listenable elements. With that said logic, I'd say that Zarach 'Baal' Tharagh is much more "heavier" then, let's say, Mayhem. That's how my definition of "heaviness" works.

However, someday, those aforementioned elements will cease to function correctly - when bands and musicians have incorporated all that they can into their music to make it more "extreme". Although it won't happen any time soon, I believe that bands will have to morph and change their aesthetic, and their methods of playing their instruments (and implementing new styles of playing) to become more "heavy".

I think there is more potential for 'heaviness' if a metal band were to take something like Jesu a little more in the shoegaze direction, but without sacrificing the heaviness. Imagine Jesu or Nadja with sloppy drumming like My Bloody Valentine.

Maybe an increase in metal musician obesity would well this cause.

Edit: Quoted the wrong band. I was aimming for the link to "Malebolgia". That band deserves this face:

I fucking hate the drum sound in that song. It's metallic, disgusting and sounds totally fake....

I think that's what they're going for.

The Braindrill song "Revelation" starts out really cool IMO, but then fades into them just playing their instruments as fast as they can.

I like a lot of technical brutal death metal, but usually only certain songs off of an album. I can't think of a single album of this type where I love every track.



This is what I mean. I tried to check and see if this band was in the archives, but its not. It is so fast paced and distorted that it is not even classified by metal by this site.

I honestly would like to know how they could play heavier/faster than that? There is also a limitation to how fast a human can hit a drum, or pick a string.

Metal will get heavier only if Lemmy allows it to be.

Nothing will ever beat this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2oPKDuX1I

It's not about velocity...it's about mass. I just can't see how guttural vocals, blast beats and down tuning automatically makes something "heavy" it's about a crushing force...

Whoops, I think you posted the wrong link, this is probably what you wanted to post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYmkLSdrxvA

Music isn't heavy just because of the guitar sound or how fast or how low the guitar is tuned. It's heavy because it gives you that feeling. You know what I'm talking about. The "metal feeling."

A good example would be is in Domination by Pantera. The low e-string muted riff at the end. THAT is heavy. It doesn't have to be super-technical-br00tal-slam-death metal to be heavy.

Surely you mean this version?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyyoNnQEpSc

Or maybe this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m0QcEv2xwU

Yeah, but I think down tuning is important. Vocals are not important at all as it is not a real instrument, it doesn't really make the song. I think down tuning is important because that, coupled with crushing riffs and drumming, create the heaviness, I mean razor-sharp guitars even if they're crushing don't mean shit in heaviness. Also, I think the bass is highly neglected. When made audible, and giving it some crushing power, it adds extra presence, extra force.