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LifeDemise
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:54 pm
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:55 pm 
 

Hi I'm a big fan of the early melodic death metal bands such as Unanimated, The Moaning, Eucharist, Excretion, A Canorous Quintet, Sacrilege etc... but one thing that has always confused me: where is the DEATH in these bands? I thought melodic death metal is death metal with melody (o'rly!?), but when I listen to them I Hear a big influence from black metal and Iron Maiden rather than death metal. One band that definitly fits the melodic death description is Intestine Baalism.

So my question is where is the death metal element in these bands? Please don't mention In Flames, Scar Symmetry, CoB etc..

thanks :)

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zervyx
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:35 pm 
 

well, at first your comment didnt make anysense to me, but as I continued reading I got your point, and its true. I did notice it too, the "typical" guitar technique in the gothemburg sound has more to do with black metal than death metal. I take Amon Amarth's guitarwork as example, that kind of technique was used by bands like At the Gates, (old) Dark Tranquillity, (old) In Flames: except because they had more Maiden influence. Anyway, sounds like a mix of Maiden/Black metal guitarwork, instead of deathmetal. But perhaps because of the drumming/vocals they wouldnt be classified as blackmetal.

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Shadoeking
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:34 am
Posts: 1424
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:46 pm 
 

The vocals have been the only thing I have ever been able to figure out. To me that's not enough. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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LordGothic
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 pm
Posts: 324
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:48 pm 
 

some ARE death metal imo, just not as extreme as say Morbid Angel obviously

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zervyx
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:03 pm 
 

zervyx wrote:
well, at first your comment didnt make anysense to me, but as I continued reading I got your point, and its true. I did notice it too, the "typical" guitar technique in the gothemburg sound has more to do with black metal than death metal. I take Amon Amarth's guitarwork as example, that kind of technique was used by bands like At the Gates, (old) Dark Tranquillity, (old) In Flames: except because they had more Maiden influence. Anyway, sounds like a mix of Maiden/Black metal guitarwork, instead of deathmetal. But perhaps because of the drumming/vocals they wouldnt be classified as blackmetal.


just to make my comment easier to understand:

check the right hand of these guitarists in this "Amon Amarth" song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiRCpdMMP0 That kind of riff has been used billion times in the gothenburg sound since the beginning, like right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPnyY1A9gjI

and then the same way of playing the guitar is found in black metal bands like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV8LpUEdpBI or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGeuf0X_9No

I know that all these is debatable but, at least in that part, some blackmetal and some melodic death have something in common.

Life Demise: Perhaps this is not what you meant when you opened the thread, sorry if I took the conversation to another direction.


Last edited by zervyx on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Deucalion
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:29 pm
Posts: 1235
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:11 pm 
 

LifeDemise wrote:
CoB


CoB is pretty far away from death metal (well, the stuff I've heard....I think people that don't really listen to the music are fooled by the vocals into thinking Bodom's some sort of death metal band or black metal or something).

Yes, a lot of so called "melodic death metal" bands only really have one element that might lead people to believe they're death metal ("harsh" vocals). However, I think it's been said before that the vocals in these bands probably wouldn't even fit well into most death metal.

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Sinvocation
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:03 am
Posts: 291
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:23 pm 
 

What you need is some Anata. Start with Under a Stone With No Inscription, and then move on to the others.

Also, get Artillery's By Inheritance. Progressive/technical thrash with a good dose of melody and Egyptian/middle-eastern flavored leads.

Arghoslent are another good one too. Incorrigible Bigotry is their magnum opus, but their other albums are more melodic, so you may want to start with them if you're looking for more melody.

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DrommerOmDod
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 am
Posts: 522
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:07 pm 
 

Sinvocation wrote:
What you need is some Anata. Start with Under a Stone With No Inscription, and then move on to the others.

Also, get Artillery's By Inheritance. Progressive/technical thrash with a good dose of melody and Egyptian/middle-eastern flavored leads.

Arghoslent are another good one too. Incorrigible Bigotry is their magnum opus, but their other albums are more melodic, so you may want to start with them if you're looking for more melody.


you clearly did not even glance at the original post.
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spacelordjones
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 214
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:57 pm 
 

DrommerOmDod wrote:
Sinvocation wrote:
What you need is some Anata. Start with Under a Stone With No Inscription, and then move on to the others.

Also, get Artillery's By Inheritance. Progressive/technical thrash with a good dose of melody and Egyptian/middle-eastern flavored leads.

Arghoslent are another good one too. Incorrigible Bigotry is their magnum opus, but their other albums are more melodic, so you may want to start with them if you're looking for more melody.


you clearly did not even glance at the original post.


But none the less, By Inheritance rules!

Back to the post, I would say Amon Amarth are a melo death band that incorporate their death metal influences with melody quite effectively, making them one of the frontrunners of the modern melodic death metal scene. Although they do use some black metal techniques, their sound has too much of that death metal low end power for me to think of them as black metal in any way.

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diabolikon
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 978
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:03 pm 
 

This subject has puzzled me for a long time. I think it's just the slight vocal similarities.

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McCannFan
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 338
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:12 pm 
 

LifeDemise wrote:
Hi I'm a big fan of the early melodic death metal bands such as Unanimated, The Moaning, Eucharist, Excretion, A Canorous Quintet, Sacrilege etc... but one thing that has always confused me: where is the DEATH in these bands? I thought melodic death metal is death metal with melody (o'rly!?), but when I listen to them I Hear a big influence from black metal and Iron Maiden rather than death metal. One band that definitly fits the melodic death description is Intestine Baalism.


Yes, most of those old school melodic death bands don't have that nice fat sound. Here are some death metal bands (which are melodic) which do:

Mykorrhiza: http://www.myspace.com/mykorrhizainfo
Theriomorphic: http://www.myspace.com/theriomorphic
Negation: http://www.myspace.com/negationband
Crocell: http://www.myspace.com/crocelldk

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ENKC
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 2731
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:33 pm 
 

Perhaps to solve this quandry we'd need to approach it from the opposite angle and first define what death metal is. There's only a little of the death metal sound in most melodeath bands, but they derive a large part of their influence from the genre. If you consider that Heartwork is thought of as a pioneering melodeath album and Michael Amott was in Carnage, it all becomes less of a stretch.
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stereo_typical213
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:19 am
Posts: 38
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:44 am 
 

Back to the post, I would say Amon Amarth are a melo death band that incorporate their death metal influences with melody quite effectively, making them one of the frontrunners of the modern melodic death metal scene. Although they do use some black metal techniques, their sound has too much of that death metal low end power for me to think of them as black metal in any way.[/quote]

Very true mate, the blend the 2 elements of melodic and death metal perfectly. They have those tremelo parts which are very melodic, but also incorporate really heavy and fast riffs, such as 'No Fear For The Setting Sun'.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 970
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:20 am 
 

To the OP: To be honest, Scar Symmetry (at least in their second album) and Amon Amarth both fit the Melodic Death description...You're right about CoB though, and In Flames, you might like Ablaze My Sorrow's last album, except the vocals are more reminiscent of Black Metal than Death, but that's where the Black influence ends. Oh, and you should definitely check out Miseration, cause they kick serious amounts of ass.

I think the "death" in most Melodeath bands, comes from the vocals similarities
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SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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Beli
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:33 am
Posts: 89
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:02 am 
 

Coming from black metal and then listening to Kataklysm's Sorcery and At the Gates' TRITSIO I felt the same. I think they use some black riffage to create melody but because of the present death riffs and song structures they're labeled as death.

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Maglor666
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:04 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:33 pm 
 

LordGothic wrote:
some ARE death metal imo, just not as extreme as say Morbid Angel obviously



Totally Agreed

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cadena
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:12 am
Posts: 72
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:34 pm 
 

detonation, casketgarden, the abscence, kalmah

there are my favorite for now

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sarcasticsmoothie
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:34 pm
Posts: 18
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:01 pm 
 

cadena wrote:
detonation, casketgarden, the abscence, kalmah

there are my favorite for now


good job.


I think that people call it death metal because it's "intense" like death metal; as opposed to some black metal bands that have some lighter parts (not to say that black metal isn't heavy, but what we call melodic black metal is much less intense).

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 970
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:43 pm 
 

Beli wrote:
Coming from black metal and then listening to Kataklysm's Sorcery and At the Gates' TRITSIO I felt the same. I think they use some black riffage to create melody but because of the present death riffs and song structures they're labeled as death.



Kataklysm isn't Melodic Death..lol
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My last.fm:
http://www.last.fm/user/OurFatherChaos

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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LifeDemise
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:54 pm
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:22 pm 
 

Wow didn't expect to get many replies at all :O

zervyx wrote:
zervyx wrote:
well, at first your comment didnt make anysense to me, but as I continued reading I got your point, and its true. I did notice it too, the "typical" guitar technique in the gothemburg sound has more to do with black metal than death metal. I take Amon Amarth's guitarwork as example, that kind of technique was used by bands like At the Gates, (old) Dark Tranquillity, (old) In Flames: except because they had more Maiden influence. Anyway, sounds like a mix of Maiden/Black metal guitarwork, instead of deathmetal. But perhaps because of the drumming/vocals they wouldnt be classified as blackmetal.


just to make my comment easier to understand:

check the right hand of these guitarists in this "Amon Amarth" song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiRCpdMMP0 That kind of riff has been used billion times in the gothenburg sound since the beginning, like right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPnyY1A9gjI

and then the same way of playing the guitar is found in black metal bands like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV8LpUEdpBI or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGeuf0X_9No

I know that all these is debatable but, at least in that part, some blackmetal and some melodic death have something in common.

Life Demise: Perhaps this is not what you meant when you opened the thread, sorry if I took the conversation to another direction.


No need to be sorry; you're giving good links of the sort of similarity I was thinking.

LordGothic wrote:
some ARE death metal imo, just not as extreme as say Morbid Angel obviously


Which ones? the ones that I have mentioned in my post?

Thanks to everyone else for posting. Will look at links of bands mentioned when I next wake up.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5405
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:45 pm 
 

I've certainly seen the Iron Maiden similarity for a very long time, as I'm sure anyone who has dabbled in the genre in the slightest has (Don't Amon Amarth use the Prowler melody somewhere on some song), but the black metal link is a little tenuous. There's a similarity in the style, but I'm almost sure that there's no deliberate influence.

As for the lack of death in melodic death metal, I think that's why a lot of us tend to treat melodic death metal and melodeth as two different styles, rather than just an abbreviation. The first being death metal which is melodic and the later which is the far more popular Iron Maiden harmony based thing, with screaming.

Edit: Cry of the Blackbirds, that's the one, exact same melody as Iron Maidens Prowler.
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