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obZen
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:59 pm 
 

Wrath_Of_War wrote:
I'm not going to lie....I've only heard the title track, and I think it's pretty awesome. It's nothing like classic Carcass, but I still find it enjoyable. If I enjoy the title track, is the rest of the album worth checking out?


Yea, it is. You'll most likely find that the rest of the album has filler, but still some killer riffs. Rather mechanical riffage for the most part though. Not like Necrophagist mechanical, but not very free in structure.

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Khull
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm
Posts: 574
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:03 pm 
 

I never was much of a goregrind fan, and because of that I probably can't appreciate pre-Heartwork as it should be appreciated, but I really, really enjoy Carcass' later material.

Perhaps they are a bit formulaic, but both Heartwork and Swansong are, in my opinion, damn good albums, with Heartwork being the better of the two.

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ThrashingMad
Skanky

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:51 pm 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
Uncolored wrote:
PhantomOTO wrote:
Who else really sounded like that in 1993/94?


if you mean death metal+iron maiden dark tranquillity beat carcass. if I'm not mistaken skydancer came out before heartwork

Yeah, but come on. Skydancer (which I also like a lot) and Heartwork are very different approaches.


Sure, but Heartwork's approach was basically combining the DT sound with some of Entombed's more rockish moments. I actually don't disagree with you on it not being generic though (although I can see how people may think that now that the sound is so popular), but not particularly innovative either.

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PhantomOTO
Exterminator 666 Does Not Answer

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:19 am
Posts: 3242
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:58 pm 
 

What?! I can't really see Heartwork being influenced in any way by Dark Tranquillity, directly or indirectly. Also, Skydancer was only two months earlier. And the approaches are so different that comparing them is practically absurd. Just look at songs like "A Bolt of Blazing Gold", "Crimson Winds", or "Through Ebony Archways" (Dark Tranquillity) versus "No Love Lost", "Death Certificate", or "Arbeit macht Fleisch" (Carcass). They're worlds apart. Entombed is a little more reasonable, but consider that one of Carcass's songwriters at this point is Mike Amott, who was doing Carnage right alongside Entombed's first album. And Entombed wouldn't really go fully "rockish" until Wolverine Blues, which postdates Heartwork. Though signs are there on Clandestine.


Last edited by PhantomOTO on Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Children_Of_The_Sea
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:26 pm
Posts: 33
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:59 pm 
 

spectreofdeath wrote:
Children_Of_The_Sea wrote:
I think that reek of putrefaction sucks tbh.


its an acquired taste, I like it, but its not for everybody.

The thing is that I do like a lot a grind stuff (Repulsion, Brutal Truth, ect.), but I can't stand the production on Reek. Even the riffs that I can make out of all of the mess, don't even sound all that good.

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diabolikon
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 978
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:29 pm 
 

I much agree that it should be judged not by the history of Carcass, but by the content of the album.
It does seem to be hard for me to not compare it to their other albums. I compare it to Necroticism and I"m like, oh this sucks. Then I compare it to Reek Of Putrefaction, and I'm like, oh this is the best thing in the world.

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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1894
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:26 pm 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
No two of their albums are alike.

I agree. Every single one of their albums were different from each other. They changed their sound with each release. Reek... was straight-up grindcore, Symphonies... was a cross between grindcore and death metal, Necroticism... was a pure death metal album, Heartwork was when they became more of a melodic death metal band and Swansong was where they attempted to break into the mainstream by incorporating rock elements into the already melodic and accessible sound they achieved with Heartwork.

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ThrashingMad
Skanky

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:35 pm 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
What?! I can't really see Heartwork being influenced in any way by Dark Tranquillity, directly or indirectly. Also, Skydancer was only two months earlier. And the approaches are so different that comparing them is practically absurd. Just look at songs like "A Bolt of Blazing Gold", "Crimson Winds", or "Through Ebony Archways" (Dark Tranquillity) versus "No Love Lost", "Death Certificate", or "Arbeit macht Fleisch" (Carcass). They're worlds apart. Entombed is a little more reasonable, but consider that one of Carcass's songwriters at this point is Mike Amott, who was doing Carnage right alongside Entombed's first album. And Entombed wouldn't really go fully "rockish" until Wolverine Blues, which postdates Heartwork. Though signs are there on Clandestine.


Some of the lead sections and more melodic tremolos sound slightly DT influenced. Example: :30 to :51 of the title track. That kind of delicate, flowing consonance is quite reminiscent of Skydancer/Gallery era DT, I think. Admittedly, they are not that DT-influenced. Although, I will maintain that the album is more or less a more melodic and more rockish extension of Clandestine. With some of the emerging Gothenburg sound thrown in there.

Again, I don't wholly disagree with you on the matter. I'm treading a middle-ground here.

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Uncolored
Death Metal Fundamentalist

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:19 am
Posts: 755
Location: Cagliari/Italy
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:44 am 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
but consider that one of Carcass's songwriters at this point is Mike Amott


boooom!!
don't you think he probably knew what was happening in his native land sweden and borrowed some ideas here and there from the massive upcoming "melo" scene???
yes skydancer and heartwork are separated by a couple of months only but there were handful of swedish bands experimenting that kinda sound earlier
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morbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 741
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:51 am 
 

ScratchMyBack wrote:
I see that a lot of people hates Carcass because of Heartwork. The common reason why they hate Heartwork was because it isn't gore-grind like they did before. However, the point here is that it isn't a gore-grind album so why judge it with a gore grind mind set. It's melodeath and it's good, enjoyable melodeath. I don't see what's so horrible about it. It's catchy, it's still metal and it's still hard hittin' music that I can fucking headbang to.


It has one of the worst songs in Carcass history on it... No Love Lost...

But because of songs like Heartwork, Death Certificate & This Mortal coil I can't see collection without it. Simply a great album. Important as well i.m.o.!

Melodeath.... stupid term by the way if you think about it. Sounds so....brrrr

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
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Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:42 am 
 

While I'm not a huge fan of Carcass in the first place (Flesh Ripping Sonic Torment being my favourite work by them, followed by Symphonies of Sickness), Heartwork truly is a terrible album. I was actually introduced in full by my mate who's quite a melodeath junkie. Even he hated it. The title track (or was that No Love Lost, I can't remember...) is one of the most abhorrent things that side of death metal. :ugh:

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scout1011
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:23 am
Posts: 3
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:54 am 
 

I don't like it really. But then again I don't like any pre-Heartwork Carcass much either. Swansong is the only one I listen to for some reason, although I think that one is hated more than Heartwork by most people :P

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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1626
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:33 am 
 

I love it, both Heartwork and Necroticism are their best albums. I can't decide which one I like more, but I don't much care for their earlier stuff and I admit I am not a grindcore fan. I think Swansong is completely lacking in musical direction and the band didn't even record the album together in the studio, so I don't relate it to Heartwork.

Actually, I don't think Heartwork is that different musically from Necroticism, just the lyrical content is different.

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PhantomOTO
Exterminator 666 Does Not Answer

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:19 am
Posts: 3242
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:29 am 
 

Uncolored wrote:
PhantomOTO wrote:
but consider that one of Carcass's songwriters at this point is Mike Amott


boooom!!
don't you think he probably knew what was happening in his native land sweden and borrowed some ideas here and there from the massive upcoming "melo" scene???
yes skydancer and heartwork are separated by a couple of months only but there were handful of swedish bands experimenting that kinda sound earlier

Yeah, but he was a pioneer of the Swedish sound in his own right. That's why I brought him up.

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Tormentor6
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:45 am
Posts: 92
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:46 am 
 

The Gothenburg sound was underway in 1993 but those bands were largely unknown at the time, whereas Carcass broke BIG in 93'. They were influential because they were huge, and establshed the 'melodeath' sound more than any other band.

Skydancer wasn't very well known, and the first In Flames LP wasn't out yet.

Also, DEATH were going 'melodic' by then, and were already way more popular that everybody else. They were creating a much greater impact than In Flames in 1995 with Symbolic, etc...

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Callum_Carcass
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 352
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:36 pm 
 

Tormentor6 wrote:
The Gothenburg sound was underway in 1993 but those bands were largely unknown at the time, whereas Carcass broke BIG in 93'. They were influential because they were huge, and establshed the 'melodeath' sound more than any other band.

Skydancer wasn't very well known, and the first In Flames LP wasn't out yet.

Also, DEATH were going 'melodic' by then, and were already way more popular that everybody else. They were creating a much greater impact than In Flames in 1995 with Symbolic, etc...


If you also remember, Mike had just come straight out of Carnage, a pioneer of the Swedish Death metal scene AND Carcass toured with Death during Human and Necroticism had come out, with both bands growing close to each other as well. So one had to influence the other...

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CHRISTI_NS_ANITY8
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:46 am
Posts: 1024
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:45 pm 
 

I never loved grind so much and Heartwork is my faourite album by Carcass. However, I take this occasion to say that in my opinion the very first melodic death album was The Fourth Dimension by Hypocrisy...
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:34 pm 
 

I may have drunk heaps of scotch tonight, but i think it's fair to say that Carcass did a lot of different sounding stuff and that it was all pretty decent. Some better than other obviously. How many bands have changed style so often and had the same results?

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 9594
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:52 pm 
 

I don't really care if it's a ripoff of this or a ripoff of that, or if it was one of the first death 'n' roll albums, melodeath albums, or the latest to hop on the bandwagon, Heartwork is a fucking boring album. Their riff style totally lacks character, which is I think why terms like "generic" or "sterile" get thrown around, and this is exacerbated by the fact that they don't have very many riffs per song (usually four). Also, the filthy feel and feral aggression of earlier albums is just gone - instead we've got songs that feel lifeless in comparison. "No Love Lost" for example is just "there", with the incredibly boring and simplistic under-verse riff trading off with the groovy main riff. Death 'n' roll in general just sucks.
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spectreofdeath
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 346
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:27 pm 
 

whats with all the Reek hate?

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obZen
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:32 pm 
 

spectreofdeath wrote:
whats with all the Reek hate?


Metal fans are notoriously close-minded.

Metalhead hears Reek of Putrefaction.
Thinks it's shit.
Never picks it up again.

What's the rationale for picking it up again? He didn't like it, so why should he?

Not that I agree with that logic, but this is how a lot of people function. And the more unaccessible something is, the more likely that person is to never even think of doing it.

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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1626
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:39 pm 
 

I wouldn't put it exactly that way, because when I got into Carcass I was more into punk than anything else, some metal too I suppose, and I still couldn't get into the early Carcass.

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superchef79
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:18 am
Posts: 94
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:36 pm 
 

i haven't even heard any of the Carcass songs yet but i agree that you shouldn't judge a Melodeath album like a Grindcore album and a Grindcore album like a Melodeath album.

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Scotar
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:18 pm
Posts: 29
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:05 am 
 

Heartwork made it possible that truly revolutionary and innovative artists like Arch Enemy and Children Of Bodom a possiblily. Whoever knew that releasing a so-so hard rock album and throwing in some death metal elements in the mix would establish a genre?

Heartwork cures insomnia. Nuff said.

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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1969
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:45 am 
 

I'm not sure where Carcass drew their ideas for Heartwork. Maybe it was the combination of Amott's experience of the early Swedish death metal combined with the English, but it's clear that it wasn't the Gothenburg sound, but Stockholm instead. Gothenburg at that time was much closer to the quirky Skydancer rather than anything resembling Heartwork. It's quite evident that Heartwork influenced later gothenburg. The riffing on Jester Race is pretty much lifted from that album.

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obZen
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:53 am 
 

Scotar wrote:
Heartwork made it possible that truly revolutionary and innovative artists like Arch Enemy and Children Of Bodom a possiblily. Whoever knew that releasing a so-so hard rock album and throwing in some death metal elements in the mix would establish a genre?

Heartwork cures insomnia. Nuff said.


Wait....you're serious about all that?

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1565
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:54 am 
 

superchef79 wrote:
i haven't even heard any of the Carcass songs yet but i agree that you shouldn't judge a Melodeath album like a Grindcore album and a Grindcore album like a Melodeath album.


Honestly, I swear all your posts consist of you talking about stuff that you haven't heard. Why do you do it? Don't post for the sake of posting - absolutely pointless. I'm beginning to think that you're either incredibly dumb or a troll.

obZen wrote:
Scotar wrote:
Heartwork made it possible that truly revolutionary and innovative artists like Arch Enemy and Children Of Bodom a possiblily. Whoever knew that releasing a so-so hard rock album and throwing in some death metal elements in the mix would establish a genre?

Heartwork cures insomnia. Nuff said.


Wait....you're serious about all that?


Read again, obZen. The sarcasm is quite obvious.
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obZen
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:04 pm 
 

thejuicebitch wrote:
Read again, obZen. The sarcasm is quite obvious.


I have read it again. Nothing there indicates that it was necessarily sarcastic. I've seen people on forums and real life alike that have said dumber things in all honesty. Obviously, you can't tell as well on forums. Especially since the guy has 9 posts.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1565
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:10 pm 
 

obZen wrote:
thejuicebitch wrote:
Read again, obZen. The sarcasm is quite obvious.


I have read it again. Nothing there indicates that it was necessarily sarcastic. I've seen people on forums and real life alike that have said dumber things in all honesty. Obviously, you can't tell as well on forums. Especially since the guy has 9 posts.


C'mon. Apply common sense. Would you regard Arch Enemy and Children of Bodom as "revolutionary"? Also, "Heartwork cures insomnia". Obvious, no? I'll let you digest that one for a few minutes.
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obZen
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:18 pm 
 

thejuicebitch wrote:
obZen wrote:
thejuicebitch wrote:
Read again, obZen. The sarcasm is quite obvious.


I have read it again. Nothing there indicates that it was necessarily sarcastic. I've seen people on forums and real life alike that have said dumber things in all honesty. Obviously, you can't tell as well on forums. Especially since the guy has 9 posts.


C'mon. Apply common sense. Would you regard Arch Enemy and Children of Bodom as "revolutionary"? Also, "Heartwork cures insomnia". Obvious, no? I'll let you digest that one for a few minutes.


...Aren't you a fucking twat?

I was saying that I have MET people who have said dumber things and are serious. Sarcasm isn't obvious in real life all the time. And especially, it isn't obvious on the internet. So why should I discard the sentiment that perhaps the guy is serious?

It's like somewhere in my comment I said that I think Arch Enemy is revolutionary.

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Nightgaunt
I'll Swallow Your Soul

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 6240
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:02 pm 
 

Allow me to spare you further headache by rescuing you from these primitives, obZen.
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adders11
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:39 pm
Posts: 236
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:27 pm 
 

I always thought Heartwork was a great album and im not even a fan of melodeath

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Lord_Jotun
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:59 pm 
 

I'm surprised by the negative opinions expressed in this thread, actually. I've generally heard people praising the shit out of Heartwork, even those who prefer the band's early era. I guess you learn something new every day :)
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2241
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:07 pm 
 

Personally I have a lukewarm opinion on the album. It has some fairly good moments, but for the most part it's pretty dry. It's extremely formulaic and at times, fairly anti-climactic. I can pick out a few good songs, but I much prefer the early grind albums. Whether I judge it by traditional death metal or melodeath standards, the album is just a little too predictable to be considered a genre staple, which is what many hail it as. I think Death's early 90s albums were much more entertaining to listen to, and at least equally as influential.
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Anonymoose
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:54 am
Posts: 33
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:09 am 
 

I love that album. I love it to the max.

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morbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 741
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:45 am 
 

Tormentor6 wrote:
The Gothenburg sound was underway in 1993 but those bands were largely unknown at the time, whereas Carcass broke BIG in 93'.


'93???
Well, Carcass already broke bloody big end '91, and when touring Necroticism in '92 together with Entombed and more. Heartwork only consolidated.
If retrospectively Heartwork is considered more groundbreaking or influental, I couldn't really care. Carcass were already 'big'
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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1517
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:28 am 
 

I like No Love Lost. That's how much I like Heartwork. Really, I love that album.

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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:13 pm 
 

I have nothing against Heartwork. There was no way in hell they could have improved after Necroticism, which in my opinion is a work of pure genius- those songs are true symphonies of sickness. The only path from there was something simpler and more basic. Heartwork's got some pretty good songs and overall is entirely listenable.

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Sir_Lucario
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:20 pm
Posts: 173
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:44 pm 
 

Nochielo wrote:
I like No Love Lost. That's how much I like Heartwork. Really, I love that album.


I like No Love Lost as well, although I understand how some could hate it.

My pick for worst track on Heartwork is Embodiment. It just seems to drag on forever.

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ogmetal
Veteran of the Psychic Wars

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 3983
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:06 pm 
 

obZen wrote:
spectreofdeath wrote:
whats with all the Reek hate?


Metal fans are notoriously close-minded.

Metalhead hears Reek of Putrefaction.
Thinks it's shit.
Never picks it up again.

What's the rationale for picking it up again? He didn't like it, so why should he?

Not that I agree with that logic, but this is how a lot of people function. And the more unaccessible something is, the more likely that person is to never even think of doing it.


--Yeah, BAD, BAD, BAD METALHEAD. Putting down an album that you didn't like. You are so close-minded!

You're right, a lot of people function like this. It's called taste. People have varied tastes. Why should people listen to something they don't like? Because you say so? I don't see how you can't agree with that logic.
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