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kwellada
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am
Posts: 197
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:29 pm 
 

More accurately: why would you visit Columbus, Ohio, when you could visit Seattle instead? Your analogy doesn't really work.
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PhantomOTO
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:33 pm 
 

Columbus has an NHL team, Seattle doesn't. A better comparison would be Cleveland and Seattle, anyway.

You keep acting like Anvil is some bush league entity when almost 20 years ago you heard what is widely considered their worst album. So it's pretty obvious you barely know what the fuck you're talking about.

EDIT: I was wrong. Pound for Pound isn't considered their weakest, the one before it, Strength of Steel often is. Even by the band.


Last edited by PhantomOTO on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:34 pm 
 

kwellada wrote:
More accurately: why would you visit Columbus, Ohio, when you could visit Seattle instead? Your analogy doesn't really work.

It does if you've already been to Seattle and seen everything there many times. The point isn't that these second-tier bands should be idolized, the point is that they shouldn't be forgotten or unjustly ridiculed just because they aren't the very best. Even if they aren't amazing masterpieces, many second- and even third-tier bands' albums have aspects worth appreciating. You might have to dig a little deeper or wait through a little more filler, but by ignoring them all you're doing is impoverishing your own metal experience.
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kwellada
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:40 pm 
 

Oh, I agree that there's lots to explore, but when you get down to it, only 10% of any given genre is really going to blow your socks off and then it's either some decent material to give you a better understanding of the genre and then a bunch of crap that totally waters down the genre and wastes your time and money.

Now that I have a preview of Metal on Metal available to me, I'll let you definitively know if Anvil is decent or just pure crap.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:49 pm 
 

Your view is ridiculous. You act like only "blow your socks off" stuff is worth the time of day, and the other 90% is utter shit or "decent material to give you a better understanding of the genre" like it's some kind of lesson. If there's an album that's out of the 10% by 1%, it's very slightly worse, and still very worth listening to. There's not some kind of magic drop-off once you hit 11%.

Plus, who the fuck decides what the 10% is? If you're not going to take any time to actually explore anything for yourself, all you're doing is accepting ready-made, prepackaged opinions. If your time is really that precious that you can't waste it on anything but the very best metal, well, maybe you're not really a metal fan.
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kwellada
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:54 pm 
 

Perhaps you just have a higher tolerance for bad music.
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FasterDisaster
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:59 pm 
 

kwellada wrote:
Perhaps you just have a higher tolerance for bad music.


Even some of lesser enjoyable metal acts in a subgenre aren't really that bad. Now you're just trolling for the sake of trolling.

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brightfield
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:47 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:05 pm 
 

Who would've thought the Canadian would be the one dissing Anvil?

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kwellada
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:06 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
kwellada wrote:
Perhaps you just have a higher tolerance for bad music.


Even some of lesser enjoyable metal acts in a subgenre aren't really that bad. Now you're just trolling for the sake of trolling.


I told that guy way earlier in this thread I was just messing with him! He's taking himself awfully seriously over... Anvil, which I find quite amusing.

I think metal does have a tendency to have a better "second tier" of acts than a lot of other genres. Punk, for instance, is truly a handful of great acts surrounded by true mediocrity and utter crap. Exploring punk over the years exposed me to great bands and so many painfully bad ones that I could just vomit. Metal tends to be more rewarding with the second tier of stuff. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of really awful metal, because there is and we both know that. I think the dropoff in quality of metal isn't quite as sharp as punk. The difference between Minutemen and Lagwagon is immense whereas between Coroner and, say, Death Angel is nowhere near as vast.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:07 pm 
 

kwellada wrote:
Perhaps you just have a higher tolerance for bad music.

OK, think of your favorite metal album of all time. Do you ever listen to anything else? Obviously you do. Why? Because you see qualities worth appreciating in other bands, despite lesser overall quality. The same reasoning applies to me, except without some stupid, lazy "10% rule". There is definitely a point of quality below which bands simply have no qualities worth appreciating and aren't worth anyone's time, but to claim that cutoff is 11% is simply retarded. Plus, your whole attitude and "knock my socks off" remark implies that you're a very shallow and lazy person. "If music doesn't knock my socks off, it's not worthy of my time." Sorry, but art doesn't adhere to your internet-driven attention span and sense of entitlement. "Age of the quick fix" indeed.

kwellada wrote:
I told that guy way earlier in this thread I was just messing with him! He's taking himself awfully seriously over... Anvil, which I find quite amusing.

I read it the first time, chose not to dignify it with a response. Hiding stupidity behind a mask of humor isn't fooling anyone, and if you can't take a discussion about metal seriously, then you aren't a metal fan.
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http://extrememetalencyclopedia.webs.com/


Last edited by failsafeman on Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kwellada
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:07 pm 
 

brightfield wrote:
Who would've thought the Canadian would be the one dissing Anvil?


Maybe it's a BC vs Ontario thing.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:10 pm 
 

Have to agree with failsafe on this one. I can kind of see where he's coming from, this "10% of a genre is the best," as there is just so much in a genre that we don't see or hear that sucks, but that's leaving out the middle area between that huge mass and the working-man bands that make agreeable music to headbang or sing along to...is just astronomical. The difference between those bands and the Fates Warnings, Omens and Crimson Glorys of the scene, though, is only a tier or two.
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kwellada
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:16 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
I read it the first time, chose not to dignify it with a response. Hiding stupidity behind a mask of humor isn't fooling anyone, and if you can't take a discussion about metal seriously, then you aren't a metal fan.


:lol:

I didn't realize that you were the sole arbitrator of who is allowed to be a metal fan.

Some metal fans DO take themselves far too seriously and find themselves arguing over petty differences, usually ending in the epithet of "you're not tr00 metaul!" You are in serious danger of simply becoming a caricature.

Quote:
"If music doesn't knock my socks off, it's not worthy of my time." Sorry, but art doesn't adhere to your internet-driven attention span and sense of entitlement. "Age of the quick fix" indeed.


Screw that. My remaining lifespan is too short to put up with crappy music. The mere act of creation does not automatically make something art. Sometimes, it's just some dudes playing power chords on a guitar and shrieking. I don't see why you would *want* to spend your free time actively engaged in listening to something you know is bad or medicore.

I'm okay with exploring the bands that are above average and fill in the tapestry of music, but please...I'd love an explanation why I'd want to waste my remaining lifespan listening to garbage.
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kwellada
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:18 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Have to agree with failsafe on this one. I can kind of see where he's coming from, this "10% of a genre is the best," as there is just so much in a genre that we don't see or hear that sucks, but that's leaving out the middle area between that huge mass and the working-man bands that make agreeable music to headbang or sing along to...is just astronomical. The difference between those bands and the Fates Warnings, Omens and Crimson Glorys of the scene, though, is only a tier or two.


See my comment above about metal's softer slope of decline.

Crimson Glory's Transcendence goes into my 10% of kick-ass stuff, by the way. Slightly dated, but still one of the finer albums of the late 80s.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:30 pm 
 

kwellada wrote:
I didn't realize that you were the sole arbitrator of who is allowed to be a metal fan.

Now you know. :)

kwellada wrote:
Some metal fans DO take themselves far too seriously and find themselves arguing over petty differences, usually ending in the epithet of "you're not tr00 metaul!" You are in serious danger of simply becoming a caricature.

The difference isn't petty. And yes, I take metal seriously. Sorry?

kwellada wrote:
Screw that. My remaining lifespan is too short to put up with crappy music. The mere act of creation does not automatically make something art. Sometimes, it's just some dudes playing power chords on a guitar and shrieking. I don't see why you would *want* to spend your free time actively engaged in listening to something you know is bad or medicore.

I never said you should spend time listening to stuff you know is bad or mediocre. I certainly don't. The thing is you've been implying this whole time that there is a clear-cut and obvious difference between amazingly excellent and terrible or mediocre, with nothing in between, and that it takes all of one second to identify that difference (your casual dismissal of Anvil based on years-old memories of one album stands as proof). You've since begrudgingly admitted there is a "slope" in metal, but here:
kwellada wrote:
I tend to think that supporting the lesser bands at all costs waters down metal in general, opening it to mockery and derision.

90% of any genre is mediocre at best and downright awful at worst. Anvil does not even come close to the special 10% threshold.

you basically say the opposite. That's what started the argument. Also, whose mockery and derision should we be caring about there? I don't give a fuck about what any non-metalhead thinks of metal.

kwellada wrote:
I'm okay with exploring the bands that are above average and fill in the tapestry of music, but please...I'd love an explanation why I'd want to waste my remaining lifespan listening to garbage.

You should waste your remaining lifespan listening to garbage because you're a douche. :)
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kwellada
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:35 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
You should waste your remaining lifespan listening to garbage because you're a douche. :)


Your face is a douche!

Okay, so I've been listening to Metal on Metal...

Again, I fail to see why enough people would care about Anvil to justify the expense of making a DVD about them. This is Grim Reaper level of inanity. The drummer has the same "loose" delivery as Philthy Animal Taylor, but fails entirely to be endearing. It's very basic, dated and tired sounding. There's way better stuff from 1982 than this.

If you have to like this album or band to be a metal fan, I bow out. I can't believe you guys would care enough about something so truly mediocre to rant as much as you have.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:37 pm 
 

Grim Reaper are awesome, so that's pretty much invalid.

I still haven't even listened to the band in question though.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:38 pm 
 

So, failsafe, how long are you keeping this guy around for?

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kwellada
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:40 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
So, failsafe, how long are you keeping this guy around for?


Ah, he's one of *those* guys.

It'd be hilarious to be banned because I didn't think Anvil was all that special. That'd pretty much prove pettiness rules the scene.
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Cheeses_Priced
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:41 pm 
 

I want to spin some Anvil just so I don't turn into kwellada.

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kwellada
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:43 pm 
 

Well, I'll politely bow out now. Honestly not trying to be a troll...just couldn't figure out the love for Anvil. Still unsure of it, but hey, everyone's tastes are different.

My favorite Canadian metal band will always be Voivod. That cannot be helped or changed.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:45 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
So, failsafe, how long are you keeping this guy around for?

As long as he amuses me. :)

kwellada wrote:
It'd be hilarious to be banned because I didn't think Anvil was all that special. That'd pretty much prove pettiness rules the scene.

"Metal on Metal" definitely isn't their best album, fyi. "Forged in Fire" is much better. And I'm not going to ban you for arguing or disagreeing with me. But you will quite possibly get banned for your total inability to have a halfway mature conversation. I mean seriously, your best criticism is it sounds "dated" and the drumming isn't very good? Do Motorhead sound futuristic, or something?
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Seriously, why ban me??????? That topic had nothing wrong with it! Theres something wrong with you i can tell you! You're immoral banning of my account! Anyways, i'm creating my own metal arcives.

http://extrememetalencyclopedia.webs.com/

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Misainzig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:50 pm 
 

I'd like to take the time to point out that Anvil has the most metal mascot of any band ever. It's an anvil.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:56 pm 
 

Misainzig wrote:
I'd like to take the time to point out that Anvil has the most metal mascot of any band ever. It's an anvil.


Pun intended?

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Misainzig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:03 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Misainzig wrote:
I'd like to take the time to point out that Anvil has the most metal mascot of any band ever. It's an anvil.


Pun intended?

Yes, but even without the pun, it's still true.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:05 pm 
 

Misainzig wrote:
FasterDisaster wrote:
Misainzig wrote:
I'd like to take the time to point out that Anvil has the most metal mascot of any band ever. It's an anvil.


Pun intended?

Yes, but even without the pun, it's still true.


I know. I just love awesome puns.

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brightfield
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:47 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:58 pm 
 

kwellada wrote:
Well, I'll politely bow out now. Honestly not trying to be a troll...just couldn't figure out the love for Anvil. Still unsure of it, but hey, everyone's tastes are different.

My favorite Canadian metal band will always be Voivod. That cannot be helped or changed.


No doubt! Or Razor...

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Misainzig
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:25 am 
 

I feel like a bitch, as Annihilator is my favorite Canadian band.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:20 am 
 

kwellada wrote:
Again, I fail to see why enough people would care about Anvil to justify the expense of making a DVD about them.


The producer of this film was taken on tour with Anvil when he was a teenage boy, he knew the band and obviously it was an important experience in his life. He felt it would be interesting to see how the band was doing nowadays. Hey, I personally think an insight into a struggling band is far more interesting to see than another Metallica styled: "Here's my massive house, here's our massive studio, here's my drug problem..."

You'd be best looking into a film before you pass judgement about it.
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Tantalus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:33 am 
 

Exactly - the point isn't 'hey, Anvil rocks, let's make a movie about them'. If you detach yourself from stuff you actually know about Anvil, The whole film is about a bunch of lifers who never made it, weren't particularly great, but are still plugging away because they still 'believe'. You're at a disadvantage if you watch the film as an Anvil fan or hater, because whether X album is better than Y album or if X guitarist is better than Y guitarist yaddayaddayadda is irrelevant. It's about these 50-something guys who still have delusions that they're going to 'make it'.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:51 am 
 

Misainzig wrote:
I feel like a bitch, as Annihilator is my favorite Canadian band.


Why? :ugh:

However I will say, Waking The Fury is the best thing they've done.

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ACM
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:59 am 
 

Looking forward to seeing it. I hope it comes out on DVD also.

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Cheeses_Priced
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:38 pm 
 

Tantalus wrote:
It's about these 50-something guys who still have delusions that they're going to 'make it'.


That sounds a little depressing. I hope it's not just a big joke at their expense.

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Eintagsfliege
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:25 am
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm 
 

Cheeses_Priced wrote:
Tantalus wrote:
It's about these 50-something guys who still have delusions that they're going to 'make it'.


That sounds a little depressing. I hope it's not just a big joke at their expense.


Actually it's not. To be honest, the story isn't about metal, it's about friendship and dedication which is also why it's so good. You'll end up cheering, not because Anvil might make it, but because despite everything that's gonna happen or not happen, they'll be content with the life they've chosen.

And I immediately need to give Metal On Metal another spin. It's a fucking classic, don't listen to failsafeman (what does he know :wink:)

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Star-Gazer
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:03 pm 
 

has anyone read the new book about Anvil?

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TheGrimWombat
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:47 pm 
 

I haven't read it, but as it's by Lips and Robb, I'm sure it's an interesting read.

They're such likable guys.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:37 pm 
 

Alright seriously, I'm going to listen to Anvil before I get asked to leave the fucking hall. Dear lord.

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TheGrimWombat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:16 am 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Alright seriously, I'm going to listen to Anvil before I get asked to leave the fucking hall. Dear lord.


If you have any sort of appreciation for good, rockin' metal, then you should enjoy yourself.

I still remember when I was first introduced to the band. I found "Pound for Pound" on vinyl for $1 in the bargain bin at the local metal/punk shop. Awesome.
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