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0kill
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:26 am
Posts: 857
Location: Cascadia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:00 pm 
 

I realize that their fanbase has as many female teenage anime fans as metalheads nowadays, but I was wondering what the general consensus on the site is about Nightwish. I find them to be an hugely inconsistent band. Their first three albums are pretty good, though wildly overrated. Though Thomas (or however you spell the Finish version of Thomas) is a very good songwriter, my main complaint with early Nightwish is that too often the classical side of it clashes with the metal side, making the songs sound pretentious and stupid. However, when they actually play metal (FantasMic, Nightquest, etc) and let the classical influences take a backseat, they are very fun to listen to.

Newer Nightwish (I haven't yet listened to all of Century Child, so I don't know whether to lump it in with newer Nightwish or not)is a mixed bag for entirely different reasons. Adding the industrial, Rammstein-esque influences to their music was an abominable idea on Once. Dark Passion Play, on the other hand, had a few really awesome songs (Poet and the Pendulum is by far the best Nightwish song ever) and a lot of mediocre filler, but I really prefer the chick on this album's voice over Tarja (who is absurdly overrated, it seems) because her straightforward rock vibe fits more with the music than the whole opera thing.

So I'd like to hear some other opinions on the band from you guys. Love them, hate them, only like certain albums, etc.
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MushroomStamp
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:51 pm 
 

I ignore the Turunen era because of the crow voice.

The new era, then, is hit and miss. The lyrics are cringe-worthy cheese, but I dig the new singer's voice. The songwriting ranges from abysmal cartoon crap to rather good (the latter is precisely the song you mentioned too, The Poet and the Pendulum, as well as a few others). I'd probably go to see them if they played at a festival I was visiting, but as far as buying albums goes, I'll wait until they improve the average songwriting level.
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9885
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:13 pm 
 

I just ignore Nightwish altogether. Terrible band. Hated them since I first heard their stuff during my Amazon days. Heard them again before I shipped out and they still sucked. Just not my kind of music, even though I can get into Theatre of Tragedy no problem.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:16 pm 
 

Meh. I enjoy a few tracks. I guess I'm a sucker for huge orchestrations though.
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ShoresOfLakeHuron
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:50 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:17 pm 
 

"Oceanborn" is a masterpiece. I like parts of "Wishmaster", don't care for any of their other stuff.
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The_Boss
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:45 am
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:36 pm 
 

I like Nightwish, decent band with loads of good songs. Although, I find it hard to like a whole album sometimes. I first heard them through Oceanborn and it's good. Century Child is probably their best although my personal favorite is Once. Yes, I said it. Once is my favorite by far. It's a lot different from the rest and extremely mainstream but I still enjoy it.
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NeglectedField
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:51 pm 
 

Some good tracks like Wishmaster that are really driving, and maybe a handful of good songs off Once. Amaranth is ok but only in an Eurovision sort of way. The rest is often corset wearing walking pace nonsense. I just take them for what they are, really.
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elf48687789
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:52 pm 
 

I like Tarja's voice, and I really like the early stuff with Sami on bass. The later stuff that still had Tarja, but with Marco on bass, some of it I don't like as much, especially when Marco sings because he reminds me of David Lee Roth and gives me bad memories. I really don't like Anette's voice at all.

Also, their first album has two versions, the first has a more underground sounding mix, which is kind of really cool, then it's been remastered and sounds more like "normal" metal, although I don't mind it, it just sounds different.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:55 pm 
 

I don't like Tarja's voice and I think that Once is an abhorrent album and one of the worst I've ever heard. But really, before that they weren't too bad - especially when they were writing more straightforward and enjoyable songs like "Ever Dream" and "Gethsemane."

These days, all they have going for them is Marco Hietala. That is really about it. I can't say I didn't enjoy DPP anyway though; at least some of it.
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Misainzig
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:30 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:57 pm 
 

I bought Once when it came out, and decided that Once was enough.
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Pfuntner
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:06 pm 
 

I have Oceanborn. Pretty good album despite the silliness that it occasionally lapses into. I don't have any real desire to check out the rest of their material.
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screamingstatue
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:06 am
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:41 pm 
 

I really enjoy Nightwish, I own Wishmaster and the compilation Highest Hopes and I love giving them both a spin every now and then. Dead Boy's Poem is a brilliant song that never seems to get old for me.

I've heard some of the newer stuff with Anette and it's abhorrent. Like lite-Lacuna Coil meets Within Temptation stuff, woeful.
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madbringer
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:08 pm
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:45 pm 
 

I hate to admit it, but i like some Nightwish songs. In general, listening to Nightwish is as attractive to me as dipping my face in boiling oil, but on occasion i find myself humming and tapping my foot to, say, Wishmaster or The Pharaoh Sails to Orion.
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Krelgen
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:23 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:51 pm 
 

Except for the occasional listen of Dark Passion Play, I don't listen to them anymore but I've always liked their albums. Despite the overall negativity toward Once, I thought it was a great album containing many of my favorite songs.

I consider their first album to be one of their weakest but Dark Passion Play was rather disappointing. Anette is not a bad singer, just average and completely forgettable. Marco's vocals could not save it even though I liked his work in previous albums. The worst offense was the cringe-worthy line "where will we be when they come" from 7 Days to the Wolves, terrible. The symphonic/orchestral version is awesome though.

Despite the criticism of Tarja's voice, she may be overrated but is certainly unique compared to other vocalists I've heard. Her voice fits the symphonic style quite well, creating a sound that no other band has matched, as far as I know.

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Dettigers
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:18 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:10 pm 
 

Angel Fall First is really really bad
Oceanborn is very well done masterpiece
Wishmaster is also a very well done masterpiece
Century Child is good not on the level of the last two
Once is very meh
Dark Passion Play has some hits and misses. It's better then Once but that's not saying much.

To be really honset Other then Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and sime song on Century Child I have growen out of them and found far better female fronted metal bands. Nightiwsh is a nice gate way but that's about it. I have got tried of them and the fan base is no better. In fact I place the Nightwish fan base on the same level as the Dragonforce fanbase.

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Lyrici17
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:18 am 
 

They have some good material, but they've never been a band that has really drawn me in. I don't own a single album by them, which I find somewhat surprising. I think it comes down to there being so much metal, that since I didn't buy anything of their's while I was "most into them", the time has just passed me by... or something or other....
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Negru_Voda
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:37 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:56 am 
 

I like them. They have some good songs and a good songwriting approach sometimes. They can get a little cheesy, but I find that the times they are cheesy is when they try to introduce more "metal" elements in their music for no apparent reason, like the constant typical Power Metal pounding double bass on Stargazers. I haven't heard all of Dark Passion Play but I thought Amaranth was a good and catchy song. I also saw them live and they put on a pretty good show. At one point Tuomas played the main melody to Amorphis' Better Unborn as part of a keyboard solo.

Has anyone here read the Nightwish book?

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immortalshadow666
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:04 am 
 

I enjoy some of their material greatly. They are a bit inconsistent, but the fusion of metal with operatic female vocals is one I find greatly enjoyable.
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greysnow
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 am
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:59 am 
 

Dettigers wrote:
Angel Fall First is really really bad
Oceanborn is very well done masterpiece
Wishmaster is also a very well done masterpiece
Century Child is good not on the level of the last two
Once is very meh
Dark Passion Play has some hits and misses. It's better then Once but that's not saying much.

To be really honset Other then Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and sime song on Century Child I have growen out of them and found far better female fronted metal bands. Nightiwsh is a nice gate way but that's about it. I have got tried of them and the fan base is no better. In fact I place the Nightwish fan base on the same level as the Dragonforce fanbase.

This, more or less. Though I must admit I have a soft spot for them as they were one of the bands that brought me back to metal after a pause of some years when I didn't listen to much music at all. I dig Tarja's voice; it has a hysterical, overdramatic quality to it that fits well with the cheesy music.

One thing I always thought a bit suspicious and iffy are Tuomas's lyrics. In several of them he set up his singer as a puerile male fantasy. I'm not going to try to divine what the reason for this is, but the fact is that he in effect whored her out.

Tarja's relation to the band seems to have been equally dysfunctional, though. It is quite obvious that she wasn't in it for the music much, but saw the band as a personal career vehicle. Judging from the DVDs, her live presence in Nightwish was uncomfortable, stilted and artificial, half trying to conform to a thinly spooned out gothicky image that she probably thought was appropriate for a female singer in a metal-ish band, half betraying her discomfort with the same image.
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Anthelnor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:19 am
Posts: 192
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:54 am 
 

I've always hated Nightwish, for various factors that just piss me off. I hated Tarja's voice especially. I tried to get into them, as the other guitarist in our band is a huge fanboi, but it just never appealed to me.

Listened to "Poet and the Pendulum" based on the OP's high praise of it, but it just does nothing for me. It sounds like fucking Alice in Wonderland on acid.

I must admit though, i can listen to Amaranth once every few months, although the budget for the video could probably feed Africa forever.

Now I need some Queensryche to cleanse my soul. OPERATION MINDCRIIIIIIIIIME!
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Perdition666
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Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:40 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:57 am 
 

Oceanborn and Wishmaster are ok, but the rest of their stuff is nauseating. I can't say I feel the compulsion to play ANY of their stuff nowadays though.

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Khull
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:30 am 
 

Their first three albums were solid, with Oceanborn being their creative and musical peak. I frequently play them, and enjoy them, especially because they were one of the first metal bands I really got into. I loved Tarja's voice, eating up every minute of it, because soaring / airy female vocals were common in the trance / electronica scene, which I was hooked on prior to discovering metal. Early on, I actually thought Nightwish was one of the best things I had ever heard.

An interesting thought; Nightwish are one of the few bands that warned their fans that they were going to "sell out." Tuomas repeatedly stated he wasn't happy with the old sound, wanting to switch to something different, thus giving us Once and Dark Passion Play.

Annete Nightwish really bothers me. Tuomas' composing skills are as good as ever, but it really disappoints me that he's making these radio-catchy, heavily mallcore influenced songs. Turning on Oceanborn, then turning on Dark Passion Play, it's not even a contest which one was better. What the hell.

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The_Kreator
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:11 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:18 am 
 

Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and Cenutury Child are great.

The rest is terrible.

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fishman3226
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:54 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:24 am 
 

I enjoy them alot - discovered them on youtube looking for some Charon from memory and thought 'FUCK!' I love the gothic kind of sound. I listen to Once and DPP regularly. Saw them live in Jan last year and was one of the best shows I have seen.

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Sagebear
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:04 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:32 am 
 

Nightwish was the first metal band I ever listened to. Flame me all you want, but I enjoy all their material (Once was a weak album though, despite being my first metal album) and am still very devoted to the band. Are there better female-fronted bands? Most certainly. I still hold them on a very high place in my favorites because of nostalgia and opening up the gates of metal for me. They are also the only live band I've seen (so far), and they put on a wonderful act.

I cannot fucking stand 90% of their fans though.

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eaters_of_the_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:12 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:35 am 
 

I have 3-4 of their albums that I got in a giant cd lot I bought and while I enjoy them I really don't search their stuff out. Just not really sure what they could do that they haven't already done.

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LordGothic
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:06 am 
 

i love all Nightwish albums other than DPP, i really hate how they've just become a pop band with heavy guitars, their first 3 albums are masterpeices then they let it slip, still like CC and Once though, The Siren is one of their best songs ever

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ShoresOfLakeHuron
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:50 pm
Posts: 254
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:13 am 
 

greysnow wrote:
Dettigers wrote:
Angel Fall First is really really bad
Oceanborn is very well done masterpiece
Wishmaster is also a very well done masterpiece
Century Child is good not on the level of the last two
Once is very meh
Dark Passion Play has some hits and misses. It's better then Once but that's not saying much.

To be really honset Other then Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and sime song on Century Child I have growen out of them and found far better female fronted metal bands. Nightiwsh is a nice gate way but that's about it. I have got tried of them and the fan base is no better. In fact I place the Nightwish fan base on the same level as the Dragonforce fanbase.

This, more or less. Though I must admit I have a soft spot for them as they were one of the bands that brought me back to metal after a pause of some years when I didn't listen to much music at all. I dig Tarja's voice; it has a hysterical, overdramatic quality to it that fits well with the cheesy music.

One thing I always thought a bit suspicious and iffy are Tuomas's lyrics. In several of them he set up his singer as a puerile male fantasy. I'm not going to try to divine what the reason for this is, but the fact is that he in effect whored her out.

Tarja's relation to the band seems to have been equally dysfunctional, though. It is quite obvious that she wasn't in it for the music much, but saw the band as a personal career vehicle. Judging from the DVDs, her live presence in Nightwish was uncomfortable, stilted and artificial, half trying to conform to a thinly spooned out gothicky image that she probably thought was appropriate for a female singer in a metal-ish band, half betraying her discomfort with the same image.


If you think Tarja's voice is overdramatic, you should hear Tuomas' first two bands Nattvinden's Grat and Darkwoods My Betrothed. Vocals very few will appreciate. :lol: I love both bands though, awesome pagan metal.
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Lord_Lexy
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:06 pm
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Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:35 am 
 

'Angels Fall First' has only a few good songs, the album lacks power and energy. But then we have the mighty 'Oceanborn', the most magical of all Nightwish' work. 'Wishmaster', very decent album. 'Century Child' and 'Once' are more mainstream (as I've already read), harder and I like them. Marco's voice was a great addition to the band. 'Dark Passion Play' isn't their best, but also very decent. Though I prefer Tarja's voice, it sounds more like opera than Annette's voice.

Very nice band!

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Dettigers
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:18 pm
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:24 pm 
 

greysnow wrote:
Dettigers wrote:
Angel Fall First is really really bad
Oceanborn is very well done masterpiece
Wishmaster is also a very well done masterpiece
Century Child is good not on the level of the last two
Once is very meh
Dark Passion Play has some hits and misses. It's better then Once but that's not saying much.

To be really honset Other then Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and sime song on Century Child I have growen out of them and found far better female fronted metal bands. Nightiwsh is a nice gate way but that's about it. I have got tried of them and the fan base is no better. In fact I place the Nightwish fan base on the same level as the Dragonforce fanbase.

This, more or less. Though I must admit I have a soft spot for them as they were one of the bands that brought me back to metal after a pause of some years when I didn't listen to much music at all. I dig Tarja's voice; it has a hysterical, overdramatic quality to it that fits well with the cheesy music.

One thing I always thought a bit suspicious and iffy are Tuomas's lyrics. In several of them he set up his singer as a puerile male fantasy. I'm not going to try to divine what the reason for this is, but the fact is that he in effect whored her out.

Tarja's relation to the band seems to have been equally dysfunctional, though. It is quite obvious that she wasn't in it for the music much, but saw the band as a personal career vehicle. Judging from the DVDs, her live presence in Nightwish was uncomfortable, stilted and artificial, half trying to conform to a thinly spooned out gothicky image that she probably thought was appropriate for a female singer in a metal-ish band, half betraying her discomfort with the same image.


The main problem I have with Nightwish is yes the band is good but. Tarja is some times overrated as a singer. Toumas well he's good but again he's overrated at times to. Exmaple Edenbridges MyEarthDream is what Dark Passion Play should have been.

You then have Emppu again he's just a ok guitar player. Sure he did well on OB and WM but not that on the last three. Jukka well I give the band that he is a good drummer. Then you have Marco. Yes he has a good voice but again a bit overrated.

I say that for much of there stuff it's good but at time very overrated and when you take other female fornted Symphoinc Power Metal band into acount well...Nightwish is just not the best one out there.

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Negru_Voda
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 327
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:05 pm 
 

Sagebear wrote:
I cannot fucking stand 90% of their fans though.


Why? Nightwish drew one of the coolest crowds when I saw them. Better than adolescent/manchild black metal fans trying to one-up each others' crappy taste and scoffing at everything.

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Julian84
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:11 am
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:07 pm 
 

Negru_Voda wrote:
Sagebear wrote:
I cannot fucking stand 90% of their fans though.


Why? Nightwish drew one of the coolest crowds when I saw them. Better than adolescent/manchild black metal fans trying to one-up each others' crappy taste and scoffing at everything.





Exactly, I went to one of their shows and it was great. Much better than all the cliche metalheads either wearing makeup like a bunch of teen girls or guys in jean jackets trying to look tough.

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Sagebear
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:10 pm 
 

Negru_Voda wrote:
Sagebear wrote:
I cannot fucking stand 90% of their fans though.


Why? Nightwish drew one of the coolest crowds when I saw them. Better than adolescent/manchild black metal fans trying to one-up each others' crappy taste and scoffing at everything.


I was referring to those that pollute Youtube and other assorted sites. Sorry for not being clear. When I saw them live, the audience was fine. I struck up a little conversation with a guy in back of me in line, which was pretty cool since I almost never talk to anyone in real life.

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Evoken
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:02 am
Posts: 562
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm 
 

The only one I really play with any consistency is Oceanborn. That one really stands out for them in my opinion and was their peak of the use of Opera vocals mixed with power metal. When that album came out years ago...that was definitely a very unique idea, and something I hadn't heard before. Any band that can create something new like that deserves respect.

However, after that album I felt they could never really capture that special feeling they had with Oceanbord. The other albums they released with Tarja I could take or leave depending on my mood, and their latest one with the new vocalist I heard once and couldn't stand it. The band have just gotten too big, way too commercial sounding, and picked a pretty average vocalist who doesn't come close to Tarja's talent.

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Shadoeking
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:34 am
Posts: 1424
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:59 am 
 

I listen to them occasionally. I have Century Child and Once, which are not their better albums. But I don't mind them once in a blue moon.

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Aquarius
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 589
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:29 pm 
 

One of my favourite bands. I cannot say that Tarja was better songstress than Anette is. Simply I like both of them.
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Wrath_Of_War
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:04 pm
Posts: 1330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:16 pm 
 

I have all of the Nightwish releases (downloaded), and I like the Oceanborn album. Its got a nice heavy feeling to it, I think. Aside from that, I only like a few songs.....

- Beauty and the Beast
- Astral Romance (the original version)
- Over the Hills and Far Away
- Dead to the World
- Ghost Love Score

And that's pretty much it. I don't really care for Marco Hietala. His vocals, bass distortion, and the direction Nightwish has taken really sounds too much like Tarot to me. I still haven't heard the new album though. I may download it eventually...we'll see.
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Sagebear
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:46 pm 
 

Wrath_Of_War wrote:
And that's pretty much it. I don't really care for Marco Hietala. His vocals, bass distortion, and the direction Nightwish has taken really sounds too much like Tarot to me.


I fail to see sounding like Tarot as a bad thing, though Tarot themselves do it better.

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Wrath_Of_War
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:04 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:21 pm 
 

Sagebear wrote:
Wrath_Of_War wrote:
And that's pretty much it. I don't really care for Marco Hietala. His vocals, bass distortion, and the direction Nightwish has taken really sounds too much like Tarot to me.


I fail to see sounding like Tarot as a bad thing, though Tarot themselves do it better.
While I agree with the second part of your statement, most new Tarot is just boring to me. Only a few songs really stick out. And I just find it annoying when a band member plays in two bands, and the two bands sound the same, or extremely similar. Just bothers me...Especially when that same person has the same role in both bands, which is the case here.
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morbert
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:36 am
Posts: 741
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:44 am 
 

Well, when Oceanborn came out, I was really fond of that album. And I still think it's quite a masterpiece.
Bought Angels Fall First shortly after but never liked that one much. It sounded too premature, tame and incohesive.
'Wishmaster' was okay but a wattered down version of Oceanborn born already. Just a 'decent' follow up.

So I was waiting for the magical next album but then they threw 'Century Child' in my face. The vocals became very bland and 'rock'-ish there. Just utterly dull! Sold my copy. Heard a few snippets from 'Once' shortly after and I did have some hopes again until I heard the entire album. Those bloody male grunts ruining every possible beauty and that ESF beat in Wish I Had an Angel! Fuck it. total hip crap.

Sold everything apart from Oceanborn...
because no matter what the band has become since... Oceanborn is just very good.

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