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DeathcoreDecimator
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:34 pm
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:51 pm 
 

What are your opinions on real long songs? I'm talking about 10 minutes plus. Sometimes for me they are just too much, and turn me off from picking up an album. I have a somewhat short attention span, and I just like things changing up a lot. However there are some long songs that can keep me fully entertained the whole time, such as basically anything off of Ahab's full length.

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screamingstatue
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 576
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:59 pm 
 

Sometimes I'm not in the mood for them, and repetitive, long-for-the-sake of being long songs generally* suck.

However, progressively long songs, with tempo changes, key changes, mood variations, lyrical development, etc, such as almost any Opeth song and Maiden tracks like Rime of the Ancient Mariner and The Legacy can be nothing short of epic - in the true sense of the word.

*noteworthy exception : Rundgang um die transzendentale Säule der Singularität by Burzum. Chilling and brilliant.

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iiix
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:03 pm 
 

Long ass songs is what I like. I started to accept them more when I heard Boris - Dronevil.
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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:09 pm 
 

10 minute songs are not really "long ass"

20 minute songs are epic...

30 minute songs are somewhat long

40 minute songs are long and epic

50 minute songs are vast soundscapes of epic sound

60+ minute songs are long ass.



It also depends on the genre. In terms of giving attention to a particular song, and depending on what I am actually doing while listening to it... Corrupted's El Mundo Frio feels about the same length as Crimson by Edge of Sanity, even though Crimson is far shorter. If I listen to Crimson intently (and not do anything while listening to it), and listen to El Mundo Frio (72 minutes, btw) while doing something else, both will go by in what seems like a similar length of time.

Another example... The song "Beyond the Dark Sun" by Wintersun is 2:38, yet feels longer than "The Februar Winds" (2:53) by Mournful Congregation, because The Februar Winds is a mere ambient interlude and not much goes on... while Beyond the Dark Sun is this blazing power/melodic death metal song with solos and riffs and a whole lot of shit!

The Februar Winds also happens to be the only song Mournful Congregation ever made that sucks. So, I skip it... and therefore to me it only lasts an entire second - even "You Suffer" by Napalm Death lasts longer!"
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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:18 pm 
 

Goatfangs wrote:
Another example... The song "Beyond the Dark Sun" by Wintersun is 2:38, yet feels longer than "The Februar Winds" (2:53) by Mournful Congregation, because The Februar Winds is a mere ambient interlude and not much goes on... while Beyond the Dark Sun is this blazing power/melodic death metal song with solos and riffs and a whole lot of shit!

Ah, that's a very good point. Ambient interludes seem to last a shorter time than they really do. Another notable one is "Intermission: Ocean Highway" on Virus's The Black Flux. It feels like it only goes for about a minute, when it goes for over 2.

Long songs are exceptional when done correctly. Most of the long songs that are over 10 minutes in length are doom metal tracks, but one death metal track I know off the top of my head that is kick-ass all the way through it's 11-and-a-half minutes is Perimeter's "Baptism Of Fire" from the album Healing By Festering. No dumb silence in the middle...just 11 minutes of brutality that is interesting enough to hear all the way through.

The Darkspace songs longer than 10 minutes feel way shorter than they actually are, because they are very good. Plus all the Comatose Vigil songs on Not A Gleam Of Hope are over 10 minutes each, and it's a great album. "Cataracts" goes for 20 minutes, but retains my attention completely.
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_Aargh
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:19 pm 
 

In general I like long songs. I'd say that there's nothing better than an epic 14-minute heavy metal monster. Retarded stoner/sludge/drone crap and all those painfully long songs with one or two riffs are a different thing entirely. Some bands can do it right, some bands just fucking can't.

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diabolikon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:32 pm 
 

I get impatient with even 10 minute songs, but there are some exceptions, for example, the 24 minute song Octavarium by Dream Theater.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:42 pm 
 

I love a great 10-13 minute epic, like various songs by Edguy/Avantasia, Iron Maiden, Manilla Road, et cetera. They flow well and have a generally epic, masterful feel that makes them like a journey, with a starting point, an ending point and some generally great parts all throughout.

However, I do not usually find pleasure in 20+ minute prog marathons by bands like Symphony X. Seriously, guys, stick to writing 8-10 minute epics, IT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOOD AT.
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The_Kreator
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:50 pm 
 

I like albums that are only one or two, maybe three epic songs, like most Funeral Doom.

Moonsorrow's latest is a good example.

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caspian
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:59 pm 
 

If I see an album with heaps of long songs, I'll pick it up quickly. Except for Opeth, a band with long songs generally appeals to my interests.
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Snowgrave
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:37 pm 
 

Persefone's Core has only 3 songs, over 20 minutes each, and they are fucking fantastic. Every minute of every song captivates me, never loses my interest.

Also, the post-metal movement is one in which many songs can be pretty damn long. And it's tough to take since it's a much slower genre. Luckily I'm a fan, and haven't found one yet that has tired or bored me.
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unclevladistav
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:39 pm 
 

It all depends on genre, interest I have in song/genre, etc.

If it's good funeral doom, I don't mind and enjoy when it's 10, 20, 30 mins. or more. Boring funeral doom can be equally long or even shorter, but will be tiresome to listen to. It's hard to generalize this without specific cases, so...

Ea Taesse (by Ea) is one of my favorite funeral doom songs, at 22 mins. It is repetitive but interesting, and a fairly epic album closer. Skepticism's "Aes" has always been extremely boring to me, at 27 mins. Wormphlegm's "In an Excruciating Way..." demo is 32 mins., but it's also a favorite of mine.

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ForNaught
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:48 pm 
 

I'm big on extremely long tracks-- essential for someone who's very into doom! I do enjoy very long pieces that can really suck you in and involve you in themselves, almost. They become a journey that the listener embarks on with the artist's guidance rather than a simple story to be listened to. I don't even notice length any more, really. The exception is when a song bores me, of course, but this rarely happens with well-crafted music.
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The_Kreator
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:52 pm 
 

ForNaught wrote:
I'm big on extremely long tracks-- essential for someone who's very into doom! I do enjoy very long pieces that can really suck you in and involve you in themselves, almost. They become a journey that the listener embarks on with the artist's guidance rather than a simple story to be listened to. I don't even notice length any more, really. The exception is when a song bores me, of course, but this rarely happens with well-crafted music.


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RedMisanthrope
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:55 pm 
 

All of Devil Doll's albums is one long song, usually from thirty five minutes to an hour. Some of the best music ever created as well.
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The_Kreator
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:57 pm 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
All of Devil Doll's albums is one long song, usually from thirty five minutes to an hour. Some of the best music ever created as well.


Yes. I was going to mention them aswell...

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Ribos
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:08 pm 
 

Some of my favorite albums are just hour+ long single works... Sun Baked Snow Cave tops that list, but Fantomas's Delirium Cordia is also great.

Now, what about songs like Morbid Saint's "Assassin" or "Scars?" Those are only seven minutes long each, but considering the speed at which they thunder along and the number of ideas running amok... I'm not sure what to think. On one hand, I can't say they feel LONG, because they fucking kick ass and I always want to hear more. On the other hand, they pummel your face with so many hard-hitting riffs, I'm left feeling like I need to come up for air afterwards.

But I love it.

Unfortunately, if "in general" means as they are most commonly done, long songs suck... in general. There are some great ones, don't get me wrong, but too many bands want to write that "epic" 15+ minute rambling mess.
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Evoken
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:13 pm 
 

As others have said, it all depends on the genre. Sometimes long tracks are very boring, but sometimes they work very well. Doom is my favorite music out there, and it's totally acceptable to have 10 or even 20 minute songs in that genre. Because of the slow speeds of doom, you need the longer tracks to really flesh-out the song and allow it to breathe. It's hypnotizing stuff while being heavy (without being "macho" sounding) and melancholic, which is why I love it.

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Lepernicus
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:26 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:18 pm 
 

I was thinking about this very topic this morning... generally speaking, I find the longer tracks off of albums to be my favorites.
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UnserHeiligeTod
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:36 pm 
 

caspian wrote:
If I see an album with heaps of long songs, I'll pick it up quickly. Except for Opeth, a band with long songs generally appeals to my interests.

This is my case as well. I had a genre binge once, when I refused to listen to anything that wasn't wholly comprised of 10+ minutes songs.

Snowgrave wrote:
Persefone's Core has only 3 songs, over 20 minutes each, and they are fucking fantastic. Every minute of every song captivates me, never loses my interest.

Another person here knows of this band! Excellent band really. Core puts the whole Opeth/Dream Theater discography to shame.
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noobsofsocialreality
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:42 pm 
 

I dont mind long songs as long as its interesting. Hell I could sit through s few Sunn albums w/o being bored, but something like Opeth or Dream Theater, well I get annoyed with the album halfway through.
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xJx_Joshua_xJx
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:57 pm 
 

I have a hard on for the long song. "Long" being at least 20 minutes in length (though I usually prefer something longer). If a long song goes no where, then it sucks. Same as a 3 minute song that does nothing. But, for me, when they are good, the longer the better.

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Pfuntner
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:58 pm 
 

I'm a huge fan of long songs. Of course some long songs are just short songs played for a really long time for the sake of length (see: Black Lava by Satyricon) which generally suck. But when a it makes full use of it's length, I will usually be satisfied.

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GeekBoi
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:49 am 
 

I've only heard two long songs. But that's because It was a Folk Metal song. I'm sorry if this offends Folk Metal heads, but I didn't quite like it. It was sort of like 7 minutes of River dancing music then a Poem for about a minute, and finally it was guitars, drums, vocals, etc. for 3 minutes. I didn't like it that much.

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Nolan_B
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:13 am 
 

GeekBoi wrote:
I've only heard two long songs.


Haven't listened to much music have you?

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RevBau
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:18 am 
 

The longest I like my songs to be would be like 12 - 15 mins. In general I perfer songs lengths from 7 - 10 minutes witch isnt exactly long but my interest doesnt get lost. I have to be in the mood to listen to 15+ minute songs.

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Skjendig
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:39 am 
 

There’s something seductive about long songs. Take Sleep’s Dopesmoker for instance. 64 minutes long, but never tiring. Reverend Bizarre’s They used Dark Forces/Teutonic Witch lasts for half an hour, and it’s one of my absolute doom favourites. Cirith Ungol from the same band lasts for 21 minutes, and consists of three riffs or something; still, I’m never tired of it. First time I heard it I was shocked that it ended so soon.

I can spend hours listening to the trance-like droning of Sunn O))) etc.

The best song from King Crimson’s Lizard, is the epic title track. Speaking of prog rock, High Tide’s S/T consists only of three songs, and they’re all fairly long, an all-time favourite.

Black metal offers some great long songs to, Deathspell Omega, Burzum, Wolves in the Throne Room are all great examples. In addition to this, I also think that the best songs from Satyricon are the long ones. Black Lava, used as an example for a bad long song previously in this thread, is one of my Satyricon favourites.

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NonEsDignus
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:53 am 
 

A lot of longer songs bore me, but it depends on the genre. One example of a long song I love is 1349's Hellfire, clocking in at (wait for it!) 13:49. That song keeps my attention the full duration. I think black metal in general does a better job at long songs. Long death metal songs usually aren't that great, specifically stuff like Vital Remains... at least bands like Nile usually keep me involved the whole time.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:27 am 
 

NonEsDignus wrote:
Long death metal songs usually aren't that great, specifically stuff like Vital Remains... at least bands like Nile usually keep me involved the whole time.


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lord_ghengis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:35 am 
 

Length doesn't determine how good a song is. Typically, if a song is good the sky is the limit in terms of length. I don't particularly like it when genres outside of doom and black go over that 10 minute or so mark, the faster genres start to stop feeling like songs at that point.

My main problem with longer songs is when bands try to pad things out. I'm currently listening to Corrupted - El Mundo Frio for the first time, which is something I've wanted to hear for years from a clip I saw on youtube, and well, it's up to the bit I like after about 21 minutes, and most of those 21 minutes really seem like padding.

Hell, even the last Moonsorrow album which I love has about 2 minutes of needless crap at the start of the second song. So many long songs are like this. I suppose it doesn't really matter, but it irritated me, its worse when these moments of nothing are planted in the middle of long songs.

Also, a lot of bands like Reverend Bizarre use huge lengths as an excuse to hide the fact that they're terrible. That band is about 95% padding for 5% reward.
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Braltika
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:12 am 
 

I can enjoy some good long songs if they are done properly and as the previous poster mentioned, if you don't feel like you are listening to 'filler' material. How to describe 'properly' is a bit harder...

A good example of a reaaally long but awesome song would be 'Heathen' by Wyrd...Though some riffs get repeated, there is a certain progression in the song, like a story being told, an adventure. Emotions evoked go from pure melancholy to despair and rage... Mostly it's slow to mid paced but there are some faster sections in there too. The keyboard parts don't feel rushed nor pointless but are there for a reason and they are well done.

Other lengthy songs I enjoy are 'Epos' and 'Sary Oy' by Darkestrah, many Summoning songs and a handful of Taake's masterpieces. Also most of the lenghty ambient songs by Burzum can keep my attention and interest from start to end (Tomhet, Rundgang..., etc...) Urfaust does a pretty good job with lengthy (ambient) tracks too! Songs like 'Geist ist Teufel' and 'Dunkel, Still von Ewigkeit'. Other fantastic long songs are 'Kingdom' and 'The Maimed God' by Apotheosis and 'I Will Lay Down My Bones ...' by Wolves in the Throne Room.

A good example of how it should not be done is 'Fucking War' by Sykdom. Though the main riff is one of the most memorable black metal riffs (imo ofcourse), the fact it gets repeated for just over eight minutes makes it loose it's epic characteristics.

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Menschenfeindlic
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:07 am 
 

when it comes to long songs ,doom is the best
but i find funeral doom is little boring for long songs
the longest song i know is "Somnium Obmutum" by "Estatic Fear"
which is about 32 minuets...and i never had the chance to listen to the whole song!

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666metal666head666
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:26 am
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:21 am 
 

I've never even tried to sit through a song longer than like 13 minutes...too much is just too much and there's no way around it! Although Fear Of God has one song that's like 25 minutes long...but that song has about 2 minutes of music, 20 minutes of complete silence and the rest is just a load of talking in German (or some other language) :lol:

Anyway to name a couple of my favorite real long songs (+10 min):

Iron Maiden - Rime Of The Ancient Mariner
Nile - Unas Slayer Of The Gods
Necrophagia - The Fog
Opeth - Hessian Peel
Cradle Of Filth - Queen Of Winter, Throned
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the16th6toothson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:21 am 
 

Pan-Thy-Monium were easily their best when songs exceeded 10 minutes
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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:37 am 
 

I will have to agree with most and say that if the song is great, then the length doesn't really matter much. First long song I ever heard was actually The Decline by NOFX (not metal, I know) and to be honest I don't really come across many that are past that fifteen minute mark. Probably cause I listen to genres that don't exactly lend themselves to long song lengths. Only band I can think of off the top of my head that has long one is Fall of Efrafa. All the songs off thei Elil album are around 18 minutes or so. It's enjoyable but unfortunately I have to really be in the mood for it. I think the problem alot of bands have is that their long songs are really just 4 or 5 (completely arbitrary number) different songs pasted together to make an "epic" track. I prefer it when long songs have a memorable theme throughout, whether it be a melody, riff, vocal line, etc that kind of works it's way in and out of the song throughout.

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DemonoftheFall1143
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:54 am 
 

You would hate YOB then.

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cyberscreen
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:55 am 
 

10 min+ songs that I love:

Iron Maiden - Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Helloween - Halloween
Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys
Fates Warning - Epitaph
Fates Warning - The Ivory Gate of Dreams

The last one clocks in at over 20 minutes, but it's truly a brilliant song. It's so good in that it has enough variety to make it interesting, but all the pieces come together as a whole song. That's quite an accomplishment, if you ask me.

I've probably forgotten a few on my list that are also good, but those are from the top of my head.

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Mythics
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:27 pm 
 

I don't know how to contribute worthwhile posts to a thread about long metal songs.
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oneinfinity
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:11 pm 
 

I don't cares about song length. Long songs can keep my attention just like short songs do. It really isn't a question of song length but how the song is composed. For example most doom songs can keep my attention pretty well, while I lose my attention very quickly when I listen to Soilent Green, although they make short songs. That's because doom songs mosty build up slowly, while Soilent Green use too much vocals, change the riff or rhythm every 20 seconds and generally make very un-catchy songs.
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MazeofTorment
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:21 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Also, a lot of bands like Reverend Bizarre use huge lengths as an excuse to hide the fact that they're terrible. That band is about 95% padding for 5% reward.

I have one of their albums and the song lengths really are ridiculous. I sort of feel like I dig it but after 2 or 3 thirty minute long songs that are THAT repetitive I just have to turn it off, I cant help it.

As for long songs in general, I'm totally fine with long songs so long as they're done right and they actually manage to achieve what they're striving for.
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