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MushroomStamp
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:46 am 
 

White_Witch wrote:
MushroomStamp wrote:
That's retard maths. Nobody has yet bothered to find out what percentage of downloaders will never buy any albums they downloaded. There is only a marginal amount of academic studies on this. One by some Canadian instance found that 75% of people made the answer that they had bought the very album they'd "stolen" earlier (lol). TAPE TRADING IS KILLING THE INDUSTRY!!!!

And re-read Differer's post from above. Downloading can lead to increased sales. But as long as there's no reliable data on this (RIAA's humbug doesn't count), this is just guesswork.

On "stealing": I think it's the wrong word to use, regardless of what you think of the phenomenon. In theft, the possession of an object is transferred from A to B, whereas in piracy it's duplicated (A & B) -- sounds more like a paper-money counterfeiting operation, or whatever.

PS. Those of you who "never pirate", is your software and porn collection 100% legal too?


Calm down. I'm not saying downloading is killing the music industry. I never said that.


And I'm fully aware of that. But...

Quote:
I gave an example of how the artist is losing money and if you deny that's happening than you're living in a dream world. And I only brought it up for those that don't buy cd's at all, and they are here in this thread, so stop acting like it doesn't happen.


...this is the typical RIAA talk. Of course there are people who only download. But did they buy albums before? The only total MP3 leeches I know are those who had a couple of Hit Parade or whatever cheese-trance compilations until Napster came along. They were not CD buyers in the first place.

Also, you completely ignored the fact that some people have actually started buying more albums because they have access to a wider range of interesting options.

the16th6toothson wrote:
but does that mean download the whole album on mp3 listen to it twice and then make a shitty judgement on an inferior sounding product !! ?? (mp3's sound awful... don't tell me they don't!)


Haha, when's the last time you heard an MP3 file? 1999? On $20 computer speakers? Or was it some of that poorly packed iPod crap? But hey, whine all you want, doesn't change the facts.

Quote:
i have absolutely no sympathy for the metal thief, they are the ultimate poser and it only does BAD for the underground to steal the music.


Oh noes. The scene is dying. But why has the number of metal releases EXPLODED since 1999, the birth of Napster?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4656 ... eu2fc3.png

There would be a decrease in the number of releases if your doom-mongering was true. Producers cannot expand their business if they are operating at a loss. That's a fundamental law of economics. I guess you have a really good explanation for this, involving a grand conspiracy of Roadrunner and Nuclear Blast or something.
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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8754
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:49 am 
 

the16th6toothson wrote:
rexxz wrote:
the16th6toothson wrote:
i'm not going to read the rest of the thread THIS is the correct reply, it would take a natural disaster to "delete" my collection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unfortunately for me it did take a natural disaster to "delete" my collection. God damn you Katrina!


my heart truly goes out to you
let me know if you need ANY help...

Hah! Very cool of you to express such sentiments but I'm doing fine. I lost a lot of stuff because of a damn tree that fell in through the roof of my house and landed on top of everything D: But now I'm OK with it, I just need to rebuild my collection... which I'm doing I suppose but rather slowly because it's hard to find the motivation to want to acquire all of those albums again.

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Lepernicus
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:26 pm
Posts: 879
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:52 pm 
 

GeekBoi wrote:
If you haven't paid for the Albums in ANYWAY you're not true at all. Unless you have very little access to Metal and no way you can obtain money to spend on CDs then it'd be alright to Download. But seriously... Man, you're not really a Metal Head.


Am I seeing things or did a user with the name "GeekBoi" really just call people out for not being metal heads?

Please tell me I'm hallucinating.
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Lepernicus
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:26 pm
Posts: 879
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:59 pm 
 

White_Witch wrote:
If you do a little maths at 1000 records sold at $15 is $15,000, divide that by 5% is $3000.


Actually.... $15,000 divided by 5% is $300,000.

Also... $3,000 is 20% of $15,000.

However, 5% of $15,000 is $750.
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mrchris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 950
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:16 pm 
 

Atreyu, Killswitch Engage and In Flames? :nono:

No big loss for those, they suck anyway.
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Mullan
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 44
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:38 pm 
 

The worst excuse I've heard for downloading illegally was along the lines of "Well, I wasn't going to buy the CD anyway, so they aren't technically losing any money." It makes sense, in a very twisted sort of way.


I dunno. I download shit illegally, because it's the only real access I have to obscure music. Hell, the most obscure album I think I've ever seen in a record store around my was The red in the sky is ours by At the gates. As soon as I get a credit card and that sort of shit sorted, and get a decent source of money, I'll start buying physical releases, because it is nicer to have the proper CD, especially with bands like SuidAkrA who put effort into their physical releases to have interesting artwork etc.

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Tantalus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:18 pm
Posts: 1097
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:33 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
DGYDP wrote:
Also, some people genuinely can't afford albums and in that case I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to enjoy music.


Do you really not? There are a lot of people who can't afford CARS so they have to suffer through the public transportation system every day. Would you be cool with them just taking a car? I know that seems extreme, but thats only because downloading is such an anonymous, easy way of stealing. You can romanticize it because its art, but in the end you're taking a product that cost money to create/distribute, with no cost to yourself, most times without the permission of the artist/label. Thats stealing, period.

Maybe this example would be a bit more poignant: What about people stealing cds FROM OTHER PEOPLE? I mean, if we're saying that its okay to steal music because "Hey man, its art and even poor people should get to enjoy it!", is it okay to just go in someones car and grab a cd if you see one you might be interested in?


This. The analogy I always use is "if you eat a wonderful meal in a restaurant, and then run out without paying for it, do you think the chef says 'oh well, at least they enjoyed the meal'. No. He says FUCK YOU, PAY ME."

By the way, using ad hominems if you don't like my music 'yr music suks u shud we by it!?' is a cop-out, as is the 'u shud do it for THE LOVE, MAN' - we do do it for the love, but the love doesn't pay for instruments, recording costs, disc replication, time off from work to record etc etc etc. I guarantee 99% of all bands you DO like think the exact same way. If you never pay for it, don't expect people to keep releasing stuff. It's just how it works. Fuck you, pay me.
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ROBL250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 263
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:12 pm 
 

I hate the idiots who say "or you could buy the CDs", did they ever take into account that some people actually MIGHT have already done that but have lost their entire collection due to theft or damage due to flood/fire or natural disaster of some sort?
I know someone who recently had all of his 300 CD collection stolen from his house and now constantly gets shit from pricks like you telling him to "buy" his CDs again, he would but for the simple fact that many of the stuff he cant afford to re-buy and a lot of it was origional copies and signed by the bands. Buying the CDs are just as worthless to him now as mp3s are so theres little difference, and im sure the same is to be said for many others who are in a similar position.

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AppleQueso
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:02 am
Posts: 2528
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:16 pm 
 

ROBL250 wrote:
I hate the idiots who say "or you could buy the CDs", did they ever take into account that some people actually MIGHT have already done that but have lost their entire collection due to theft or damage due to flood/fire or natural disaster of some sort?
I know someone who recently had all of his 300 CD collection stolen from his house and now constantly gets shit from pricks like you telling him to "buy" his CDs again, he would but for the simple fact that many of the stuff he cant afford to re-buy and a lot of it was origional copies and signed by the bands. Buying the CDs are just as worthless to him now as mp3s are so theres little difference, and im sure the same is to be said for many others who are in a similar position.


OP never made any indication that this was the case with his own collection. If this was the case, and he'd said so, I can guarantee there wouldn't be so many of us hounding him for it.

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hellhippie
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:20 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:32 am 
 

^^^^^ :nods:
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wight_ghoul
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:44 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:33 pm 
 

Tantalus wrote:
If you never pay for it, don't expect people to keep releasing stuff.

How many bands have stopped releasing music due to illegal downloads?

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cweed
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 391
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:53 pm 
 

That's one of the perks of being a radio DJ for a metal show...don't have to download anything because I get the hard copies for free!
Sorry, I couldn't help but gloat...doing this radio show has been a dream come true.
Usually what I do to support a band is buy their merch at shows...a CD may get old after awhile and collect dust on your shelf, but for the most part, I at least get more mileage out of a shirt than a CD.

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Lepernicus
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:26 pm
Posts: 879
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:58 pm 
 

wight_ghoul wrote:
Tantalus wrote:
If you never pay for it, don't expect people to keep releasing stuff.

How many bands have stopped releasing music due to illegal downloads?


Not enough, since we've still got crap like Job For A Cowboy, Whitechapel and other nonsense bands.
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Cheeses_Priced
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:11 am
Posts: 656
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:32 pm 
 

MushroomStamp wrote:

On "stealing": I think it's the wrong word to use, regardless of what you think of the phenomenon. In theft, the possession of an object is transferred from A to B, whereas in piracy it's duplicated (A & B) -- sounds more like a paper-money counterfeiting operation, or whatever.


Yep. This is why people are so in love with analogies to the effect of "it's just like stealing a car" or "it's like robbing somebody's house". If you compare downloading an album to stealing a physical CD the differences are immediately apparent. If downloading an album is like stealing it, is deleting it just like giving it back?

What it's sort of "just like" is if someone invented a miraculous machine that could create duplicates of existing cars at no cost. Everyone would be driving a Ferrari and the engineers who designed cars would be mighty pissed. In any event it would be pretty different from car theft in obvious ways.

Monetary loss for the artists is really the only argument against downloads that I know of. If it could be reliably demonstrated that downloading leads to increased sales, no sane person would argue against it, and any notion that it's "the same as stealing" in principle would be moot.

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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4323
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:39 am 
 

wight_ghoul wrote:
Tantalus wrote:
If you never pay for it, don't expect people to keep releasing stuff.

How many bands have stopped releasing music due to illegal downloads?


There was this prog rock/metal label which stopped signing new bands because of downloads. It was called Lion Music or something like that, i can't remember.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7581
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:25 am 
 

I just thought of this:

If you don't have enough room to back up your entire digital collection but have two or more hard drives, you can just install Winamp (haven't tested this with other software, but I know it works with Winamp) on a DIFFERENT drive from that which your music is kept on.

The benefit of this is that if you lose the drive with Winamp, so what, Winamp is free and you've still got your music. If you lose the drive with the music, every single song will still show up in your Winamp library, provided you have Winamp installed on the other drive. Of course, none of the music will be playable if that drive failed, but you'll still have a document of your entire collection so that you can work on downloading/ripping it all again.

If this was super obvious, please feel free to give me an internet tongue-lashing.

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saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:43 am 
 

MushroomStamp wrote:
Haha, when's the last time you heard an MP3 file? 1999? On $20 computer speakers? Or was it some of that poorly packed iPod crap? But hey, whine all you want, doesn't change the facts.



Ha! Completely agree, I have some of my albums on CDs and barring a couple or two - the Pink Floyd remasters would be it! - I don't really get better quality sound at all on the physical, mp3 is eminently listenable indeed. I still buy albums, provided I can spare cash - which is not such a huge problem with my spartan lifestyle - and I can spare SPACE to fucking keep them in good condition and I wonder how many of you here would have ever had space dilemmas of the kind I do. As for vinyls, I have never seen one and maybe the sound quality is indeed that much better, but antiquated technology doesn't survive in poor countries, even though it might be better than its replacements. Not that any of this goes to offer any rationalization of downloads but I do believe there is something terribly wrong with the distribution model of the industry and if they don't fix it, they may pay a huge price in the days to come.

I inquired about some cds of a well known yesteryear prog rock band once at the best store in my city and they said they haven't kept those CDs for years and were reluctant to take orders from me even when I offered to. I didn't even bother then to ask about lesser names and titles. Where does that leave me then? Got to buy it off the net and pay half the album price in shipping. I am very much prepared to do that, though I would certainly prefer to be able to buy it at a store here and save the shipping, but if the industry is counting on such extraordinary passion and goodwill from the audience - well, I am definitely more abnormally attracted to music than the average Joe! - then they are seriously messing up. I shelled out $40 for two live DVDs, shipping included, and that's a lot of money to part with when you only make $280 in a month and I can only do it because I live with family and don't have to pay for accommodation and upkeep. Oh, and somebody from India who's hopefully better than White Witch at maths ;) will tell you that $280 is not a bad deal at all, especially in a year like this, though it is nowhere near princely.

So, yeah, I don't justify downloading and the arguments against it are pretty clear but I wonder what at all are the labels and artists doing for their own survival. Economics, fucking money, business, we artists can't and won't deal with it?? Very well, then, be prepared to shut shop one day, is all I can say, much as I'd hope it doesn't happen.

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false_icon
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:52 am
Posts: 496
Location: France
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:52 am 
 

MushroomStamp wrote:
Oh noes. The scene is dying. But why has the number of metal releases EXPLODED since 1999, the birth of Napster?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4656 ... eu2fc3.png

Quite offtopic, but where does this pretty interesting pic comes from ?
Also, does someone has an explanation for the decrease in releases number since 2007 ?

To get back on topic and using this graphic, in 1992, when I started collecting underground metal, there were roughly 4,000 metal (of all styles) releases a year. Reading 3 magazines, some fanzines and listening to what your friends bought, was nearly enough to find the music you know/hope will stand the test of time - the ones I enjoyed back then and I'm still listening today.

Nowadays, with 15,000 releases a year, if I'm not downloading before buying, it's nearly impossible.

On a side note, who do you support when buying Bathory's CDs ? Helping flower Quorthon's grave ? [/sarcasm]

EDIT : typo
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_Aargh
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:11 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:22 am 
 

false_icon wrote:
On a side note, who do you support when buying Bathory's CDs ? Helping flower Quorthon's grave ? [/sarcasm]

The underground and the metal scene in general.

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ForNaught
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:37 pm
Posts: 1193
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:59 am 
 

_Aargh wrote:
false_icon wrote:
On a side note, who do you support when buying Bathory's CDs ? Helping flower Quorthon's grave ? [/sarcasm]

The underground and the metal scene in general.


Exactly. There's a whole web of production and distribution that you support when you buy music, particularly from small independant distros and labels. Even if you buy second-hand, you're helping keep the whole framework in business. It's worth it.
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MushroomStamp
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:39 pm 
 

false_icon wrote:
MushroomStamp wrote:
Oh noes. The scene is dying. But why has the number of metal releases EXPLODED since 1999, the birth of Napster?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4656 ... eu2fc3.png

Quite offtopic, but where does this pretty interesting pic comes from ?
Also, does someone has an explanation for the decrease in releases number since 2007 ?


http://www.metal-archives.com/board/vie ... sc&start=0

There's also discussion about the possible reasons for that decline (or whether it's a real decline at all)
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Archer666
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 11
Location: China
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:18 pm 
 

Oh so many bands...Sorry for you, just restart to get them
为你感到遗憾~

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ThrashingMad
Skanky

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:36 pm 
 

Cheeses_Priced wrote:
MushroomStamp wrote:

On "stealing": I think it's the wrong word to use, regardless of what you think of the phenomenon. In theft, the possession of an object is transferred from A to B, whereas in piracy it's duplicated (A & B) -- sounds more like a paper-money counterfeiting operation, or whatever.


Yep. This is why people are so in love with analogies to the effect of "it's just like stealing a car" or "it's like robbing somebody's house". If you compare downloading an album to stealing a physical CD the differences are immediately apparent. If downloading an album is like stealing it, is deleting it just like giving it back?

What it's sort of "just like" is if someone invented a miraculous machine that could create duplicates of existing cars at no cost. Everyone would be driving a Ferrari and the engineers who designed cars would be mighty pissed. In any event it would be pretty different from car theft in obvious ways.


Even that isn't an all too accurate analogy, as one does not actually "get" the CD in the physical sense, just what it contains. So it would be more like somehow obtaining the performance and driving experience of a Ferrari but without the aesthetic pleasure of actually physically having one.

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Archer666
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 11
Location: China
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:40 pm 
 

MushroomStamp wrote:

the aesthetic pleasure of actually physically having one.


Yes I choose to have a physical one which would makes me feel better

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picknslap
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:22 am
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:23 am 
 

I use a utility called Jungle Disk for offsite backup through amazon, about 11 bucks a month including documents and other assorted stuffs.

http://www.jungledisk.com/

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Emanon
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:19 am
Posts: 210
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:04 am 
 

NotGlib wrote:
I never really got the "can't afford CDs" argument. Unless you're dirt poor, I don't see how hard it is to buy a CD every week or two. I'm pretty much in the poor house and can afford at least one CD a week easily. Look in the used bins, try eBay, shop around for the cheapest prices online.


I have something around 9000 songs on my hard drive, none of which I paid for. I'm a student, I have no income. Could I get an album here or there? Sure. But I wouldn't have discovered anywhere near the amount of stuff I have, and I certainly couldn't have bought anywhere near what I have.

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spacelordjones
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 213
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:42 am 
 

Emanon wrote:
NotGlib wrote:
I never really got the "can't afford CDs" argument. Unless you're dirt poor, I don't see how hard it is to buy a CD every week or two. I'm pretty much in the poor house and can afford at least one CD a week easily. Look in the used bins, try eBay, shop around for the cheapest prices online.


I have something around 9000 songs on my hard drive, none of which I paid for. I'm a student, I have no income. Could I get an album here or there? Sure. But I wouldn't have discovered anywhere near the amount of stuff I have, and I certainly couldn't have bought anywhere near what I have.


I could easily say that you do not deserve the 9000 songs you currently "own", but maybe you do. It is impossible to enjoy downloaded music in the same way as a purchased CD. It does not take a fan of the metal art form to click a link and leave the computer running. A true fan is willing to sacrifice money to pay tribute to the artists that enhance their life. If you download music, you are missing out on a large part of the metal experience. Nothing beats coming home from a record shop with a CD you've been looking for for six fucking months. Its a fairly simple concept blurred by the accessibility of modern technology- If you dont pay for your music, its not terribly important to you. Easy come, easy go.

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wyzt
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 437
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:54 am 
 

I do own a lot of albums, from before I started college. Now its hard to afford them, but I still do buy some here and there. I can't afford to buy everything, but I would love to if I could. Of the stuff I do get, I try to buy actual copies of the best albums. Once I graduate and start making some money, your damn right my collection is gonna be huge...hahaha

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Hockeymask
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 167
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:32 am 
 

To the OP: Yeah it sucks, but really think of it this way - you downloaded all the stuff in the first place. It is just as easy to download a second time and maybe this way you will not bother to download again some of the albums you never listened to anyways. Just a thought.

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Noctir
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:17 am
Posts: 375
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:02 am 
 

somefella wrote:
Misainzig wrote:
Or you could just buy the fucking cds.


Best post. /thread


Exactly. Losing your collection is like if your CDs are destroyed in a fire or something. In this case, what was lost was never really yours. No offense, but if you never buy CDs then you're not really doing much to support the bands that you listen to. This is one of the reasons things are in the shitty state that they're in.
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TheMancubus
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:32 am 
 

This is directed at the OP.

I think that this is divine punishment. God Hates you for listening to Atreyu.

On a more serious note, that totally fucking sucks.

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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1238
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 am 
 

the16th6toothson wrote:
some of these points may have already been made but i'm starting to get angry so it's just gonna flow right out from me...


you're not just supporting bands, you're supporting labels, and distros and the underground as a whole


if albums aren't selling, the labels will not have the funds to press more albums and sign bands and help with recordings, and pay the artists who create the covers/layouts, and if the labels can't create the albums physically-YOU WON'T HAVE THEM TO DOWNLOAD YOU FUCKING LEECHES... *calm down 16th, caaaalm down...* so with the labels not pressing as many or any more albums, that means little distros the states over won't be able to carry many titles because by now ONLY FUCKING ROADRUNNER WILL BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO FUCKING PRESS ALBUMS!!!!! AAAARRRGGG *caaaaaalm......caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalm* and effectively the underground will die.


i have absolutely no sympathy for the metal thief, they are the ultimate poser and it only does BAD for the underground to steal the music.
i DO understand the idea of try before you buy....but does that mean download the whole album on mp3 listen to it twice and then make a shitty judgement on an inferior sounding product !! ?? (mp3's sound awful... don't tell me they don't!)
i DO understand some people in some countries have a problem with customs... you, i understand your situation.

but for Jimmy McPoserfuck who lives in Vermont- YOU can suck it up and fucking BUY an album, and HELP the underground stay afloat


to those who make the weak argument of going to shows and buying shirts being more effective in supporting a band, you are correct in terms of short term-but in long term if the label doesn't see numbers, they axe the band and then the band is left looking for a lbel that will give them TOUR SUPPORT but the labels who do that will say "no thanks... your last album didn't SELL"





i could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on.... but i have to force myself to hold back because i know there are some real brickwall numbskulls out there reading this.

if you don't buy, if you don't support, WHO WILL... people like me and hellhippe will ALWAYS be supportive, but a band isn't going to stay on a label and get the help they need if their yearly sale for albums #3 is 2 fucking units!


100% support to everything you've said here. I have gotten emails from FMP Prod. saying that they are as of this moment unable to release certain albums simply because people aren't buying cds from their distro. If you don't buy it dies people, that is how it works. Labels view stats in that way and invariably that is how the metal underground works. When I was in a band we appreciated support but we needed people to purchase the albums, because at the end of the day we sank thousands of dollars into our records, the cost of jam spaces, the cost to transit/drive to the jam spaces, the rehearsal time, the studio time, the post production time... the expenditure is endless and while you are happy to put your blood sweat and tears in, if it keeps draining you it becomes futile and in the end it doesn't become worth it anymore. You may still play music, but you won't bother spending the time or money to record it.
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Pando
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:04 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:46 am 
 

Misainzig wrote:
Or you could just buy the fucking cds.


Yep. Go get a job and support the bands you claim to appreciate.

You deserve to have lost them.

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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6355
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:48 am 
 

Probably a quarter of my music collection was actually paid for, for the first few years I was into metal. When I downloaded an album or two originally, I never intended it to be my new way of acquiring music. I have a compulsive streak about me as well so being able to have all of this music at my fingertips in an instance is fucking lethal. So yeah, I can't really afford "a CD a week". Not when you have bills to pay and expenses to keep up with.

But I don't justify "I can't afford it," with "well, that's why I download!" It's simply the fact that all of this is almost readily available for taking, so why spend money? Yes, that's a rhetorical question. I don't wish to argue about this, just stating my point of view.

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The_Beholder
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:28 pm
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:22 am 
 

My external HDD cracked last week and I thought I lost everything (not just mp3's), but it turned out to be just the power supply.
Just after fixing it, I made a back-up into the computer. Not having a back-up copy is the most retarded thing to do. I felt the most retarded guy for a week, so you're warned... (now I'm feeling the luckiest guy, man that was so close...)

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Endemoniada
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:21 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:58 am 
 

sprintcarfan2007 wrote:
Oh the joys of having a external hard drive :)


Your right there. I have all my 40.2 gigs of music backed up on my external 500 gig hard drive, along with about 4 or 5 gigs of high resolution album covers and artwork.

On the subject of downloading, I generally avoid downloading free music, and I mostly download an odd song or album from itunes. I'm also incredibly fussy when it comes to metal, I'll only buy albums that have lots of standout songs and not just one or two. An album for me has to have at least between 7 and 9 standouts out of 10, for me to buy it.

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s4rcophagus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:10 pm
Posts: 28
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:18 pm 
 

Even if you do get everything on CDs (which is impossible, since a lot of bands release on tapes or in limited runs of 500 or 1000), getting them all ripped back on takes a hell of a lot of time: I know because this has happened to me 3 times. I only have about 100 CDs anyways, I know people who have 300 - 400 CDs, so I'd feel incredibly sorry for them trying to rip it all back onto their hard disk.

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Amerigo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:30 pm
Posts: 451
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:52 pm 
 

I'd like to reiterate some of the points brought up earlier in this thread.

Free music is not a right and you shouldn't defend it as such. You are privileged to have free music, and to have venues where you can obtain music for free (and, largely, free from repercussions).

I'm not one to critique the practice and I certainly don't advocate it as something that should be actively prosecuted. However, claiming that you are somehow entitled to free music is something that is so brazenly presumptuous that it is highly vexing to anyone who buys music.

The irony is that I'm sure a great majority of the people on this board are blatant libertarians who don't want a welfare/nanny state. So if you're not entitled to government money to fulfill your basic needs without requiring you to do anything, why do you think that something as non-essential as music should be stripped off all value, when food and shelter is not.

The point is that like a democracy, a capitalist system of music production would cease to function if a majority of people started to believe that it is normative to have free music. Just like if there was a social norm that voting is utterly inconsequential, because there are so many people voting, having a norm that music should be free introduces an entitlement complex that would make the music industry unprofitable. Now absent from government support of the music industry, a musician would be unable to live as a musician and thus would not be able to concentrate on music.

Even street musicians receive some form of voluntarily compensation. And yet if everyone just went around thinking that they are entitled to street musicians playing at every subway station, they would make no donations and there would be very few street musicians at all.

Producing music is work. It's a job. Music is a good. It has value. And if it has value to you, you should pay for it. This disposable culture of downloadable music is disturbing for the fact that people have these immense libraries of music that they barely listen to. Songs that people spent weeks if not months on, on meticulously composing and executing are treated like things to be consumed once and immediately forgotten.

It's not a matter of "my $10 isn't going to hurt BAND X" it's about establishing a norm that not paying for music is acceptable. I'm not saying people who download music are criminals to be sued as much as possible. I'm saying that when you download music, you should be aware what you are doing is practically, economically and morally wrong. You should feel at least some slight tinge of guilt. That's the only way that downloading music can be acceptable. But parading your misguided conception of a "right to free music" is exactly that would lead to the decline of the music industry, should it become a social norm.
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metroplex
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 am
Posts: 435
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:43 pm 
 

The_Kreator wrote:
I keep mine on an external hard drive.



those are for porn.

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screamingstatue
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 576
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:03 pm 
 

I nearly had this happen to me today, when i accidentally uninstalled Itunes (don't ask!) and for a few hours after the program's deletion and subsequent reinstallation, Itunes wouldn't load any of my files. I fucking freaked out, so I totally understand the OP's pain.

My stance on the downloading music issue - I, like many here, am between a rock and a hard place when it comes to how I acquire albums. I do not have the funds to buy every album I like, however I also feel guilty whenever I download an album illegally. I've devised a slightly childish, but somewhat effective, method of combating both these issues by making sure I pay for at least one album by each artist I listen to, even if I don't buy ALL their albums. That way, I'm contributing to their income and the upkeep of their label yet not being ridiculously masochistic and forcing myself to spend money that should be spent on food/living/college material on albums.
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