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Metal Murph
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:38 pm
Posts: 36
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:10 am 
 

Some of these questions might have already been posted on the MA previously, but how long would you consider the NWOBHM to have lasted? I have also heard from multiple people that only Iron Maiden's first 2 albums can be considered NWOBHM, why is this? Even though not a part of the NWOBHM era, would you consider albums released by NWOBHM bands now (such as Satan's Life Sentence, Iron Maiden's Brave New World, etc.) to be NWOBHM?

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Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 936
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:40 am 
 

Metal Murph wrote:
Some of these questions might have already been posted on the MA previously, but how long would you consider the NWOBHM to have lasted? I have also heard from multiple people that only Iron Maiden's first 2 albums can be considered NWOBHM, why is this? Even though not a part of the NWOBHM era, would you consider albums released by NWOBHM bands now (such as Satan's Life Sentence, Iron Maiden's Brave New World, etc.) to be NWOBHM?

I don't know if there is a consensus as to when it started or ended (ie: a first album that kicked it off), but its height in terms of popularity was from around 1979-1983. There were definitely bands from that scene around and releasing albums afterwards, but I think it was largely eclipsed by other styles after 1983.

As for Iron Maiden, I think most people would agree that their first two fit into that scene, and some would even say the third was as well. It's important to remember that it was a movement, and not a sound or genre of music. For this reason, it's a lot harder to categorize. I think the key question in determining if Number of the Beast is a NWOBHM album is: did Iron Maiden transcend the NWOBHM at that point? In other words, did they become bigger than the movement itself. I'm not so sure that really happened until Powerslave, but I'm sure it could be argued otherwise.

As for the categorization of modern albums, those are just heavy metal (or speed metal, in some cases). Because it's a movement, if an album is released outside of that movement, it doesn't really qualify. For what it's worth, I categorize certain bands as NWOBHM on my iPod, only because I associate bands with that more than I do the actual genre of music they play (Saxon, Tank, Diamond Head, etc.). Not the most accurate system, but that's how I think about it.
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Stormrider
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:41 am 
 

Metal Murph wrote:
Some of these questions might have already been posted on the MA previously, but how long would you consider the NWOBHM to have lasted? I have also heard from multiple people that only Iron Maiden's first 2 albums can be considered NWOBHM, why is this? Even though not a part of the NWOBHM era, would you consider albums released by NWOBHM bands now (such as Satan's Life Sentence, Iron Maiden's Brave New World, etc.) to be NWOBHM?



The way i look at it the NWOBHM started in the late 70's (1978/79) and lasted a little less than 10 years. The last albums i'd mark as NWOBHM woud be stuff like Elixir's "The Son of Odin".

Since NWOBHM to me defines "period in time" more a than a definite musical style, everything that was released after 1987 to my understanding belongs to suiteble genres like heavy metal, speed metal, thrash metal etc.
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Von Jugel
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:51 am 
 

Genre names at first define a certain time period or new movement/trend, but eventually over time define a certain sound. When Geoff Barton coined "NWOBHM" it was a time where a sudden influx of small-time metal bands were pressing their own singles, somewhat following the lead of the punk scene. A lot of bands of that time sounded completely different from each other, but now the term is basically used to describe a band that sounds like Tokyo Blade.

The worst is "Indie Rock". Being a rock band on an indie label doesn't make you an "Indie Rock" band, it's a certain sound/scene/etc.

So yeah, Satan is a classic NWOBHM band, and since "Life Sentence" sounds like a follow-up to "Court In The Act", you could call it a NWOBHM album if you please. But it's dumb to get too nerdy or Nazi about who-is-what-genre. Everyone has their differences when it comes to the genre nuances, and if you're too much of a stickler about it then you'll miss out on some good stuff.


Last edited by Von Jugel on Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jasper92
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 413
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:00 am 
 

I've also had some trouble defining the genre. For me, it started as a movement that lasted for just a couple of years. After that it became a genre including all the bands who were copying the sound of the bands who started it. It can be seen as both a movement and a genre imo. But nowadays I am more likely to just stick the 'Heavy Metal' tag on all of it.
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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:58 pm 
 

At the end of the day, its a fairly loose term. The Soundhouse was as much a part of NWOBHM as Saxon. I think if we are looking at a starting point, 75/76 saw NWOBHM bands starting to form, but the movement didn't really take shape until a few years later when records started dropping.

Thing is, a lot of the time, terms to describe movements have actually evolved into describing a specific sound and eventually a genre - psychadelia, punk and hip hop were all "movements" of sorts, but the musical genres they spawned took on the name. Perhaps just due to the wording, this wasn't really possible with NWOBHM.

One conversation I've seen crop up is around what the hell do you call bands from the same time period with a similar sound, but that were based outside of Britain? I think the same answer goes for bands like Enforcer that borrow heavily from the sound of a lot of NWOBHM bands, and that is simply that they are heavy/traditional/classic metal bands.
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aloof
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:35 pm 
 

Metal Murph wrote:
Even though not a part of the NWOBHM era, would you consider albums released by NWOBHM bands now (such as Satan's Life Sentence, Iron Maiden's Brave New World, etc.) to be NWOBHM?


Life Sentence is a bit too NWOBHM for its own good. Brave New World has as little to do with NWOBHM as possible. once Stevo discovered keyboards circa SIT, whatever NWOBHMness they had left was gone.

a good question would be if all those Swedish and South American bands that sound -in the year 2014- like no-budget british bands did in 1979 are NWOBHM, but whenever it comes up people get mental.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:59 pm 
 

Metal Murph wrote:
I have also heard from multiple people that only Iron Maiden's first 2 albums can be considered NWOBHM, why is this?


The band's first two albums were the type of powered-up, riff-heavy rock and roll with a wild singer that were so definitive of the NWOBHM era and heavy metal. Some people call that sort of thing NWOBHM - where riffy hard rock went heavier and shaped that heavy metal sound - and draw a line where the style sort of transitioned beyond that era into a very clearly defined heavy metal. While The Number of the Beast was still in the NWOBHM movement/era, if I was comparing something else to it, I'd call it Maiden-esque heavy metal, not NWOBHM. Still, there are distinctly NWOBHM albums that came later, like Tysondog's debut in 1984.

I don't like to nitpick about purity and what is/isn't NWOBHM by era/identity/style for its own sake, but in terms of referencing the style when describing other bands, I wouldn't describe The Number of the Beast or Screaming for Vengeance as NWOBHM. Prominent albums like these really shaped their own styles and are more definitive of the next era of heavy metal. Yeah, NWOBHM is heavy metal and had it in the name, but albums like those are the reference point and starting point for another era of heavy metal. That's just how I'd describe other music. If it's riffy, heavy hard rock-n-roll, I'd call it NWOBHM. If it's a more streamlined sound like the two mentioned above, I'd call it heavy metal with a reference to one of those.

That doesn't mean NWOBHM doesn't have a broader meaning, the movement was from roughly 1977 through some time in the mid 80s, and bands associated with the movement ranged from blues rock and pumped-up pub rock to hard rock, heavy metal, speed metal, doom metal, and the roots of power metal and thrash metal. The further you push the fringes, the less clarity you get with the NWOBHM association though.

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Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2090
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:58 am 
 

1979 or so until sometime in the 80's. Perhaps Def Leppard's EP or Saxon's debut are good reference points. There were demo's recorded earlier, but the first pressed releases definitely come from 1979. I'd probably put the end of the era at 1984, around Cloven Hoof or Tysondog's debut records. It really does depend on who you talk to and what your definition of what is and what isn't NWOBHM. Judas Priest and Motörhead definitely came before the era. Having said that, many of the NWOBHM bands were formed much earlier, some of the so-called first wave precede 1976.

I wouldn't class Maiden's third record part of it, as they well and truly transcended the movement by 1982 along with Def Leppard. Some people also consider groups like Magnum as NWOBHM, extending the boundaries well beyond what MA would define as metal.
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