I just want to have a thread that we can all talk about post-black metal in. For those not in the know, post-black metal is, as the name implies, black metal mixed with post-rock and sometimes shoegaze. It also can bring about some unfortunate lyrical topics and

I've recently been getting more and more into post-black metal over the last few months or so. I had been familiar with stuff like Wolves in the Throne Room for a while, but it wasn't until a friend of mine showed me Alcest that I started really listening to it more. Since then I've been listening to bands like the aforementioned two, Krallice, Altar of Plagues, and, most recently of all, Deafheaven. I think that the addition of post-rock and shoegaze into the black metal sound can lead to some absolutely majestic music, like Ecailles de Lune parts 1 and 2 by Alcest and A Looming Resonance by WITTR. The atmosphere that can be created through fusing these styles together is just incredibly unique in the grand scheme of metal music in my opinion.

And please, please, PLEASE don't just turn this thread into a big argument over the legitimacy of post-black metal compared to the second wave bands or how pretentious some of the bands of this style can be. We all know how big of a tool the Liturgy guy is, and his band is not really that great on the music side either, but that doesn't mean all bands of the style are bad.

It always boggles my mind how often you see WitTR lumped in with this style. They have little to no post-rock in their music. Same with Alcest, who are wimpy shoegaze with some black metal elements.

Deafheaven are the most honest post-black metal band I've heard, in that they actually sound like they're making an effort to combine the two styles of music and play them both at the same time. Most of the other bands I've heard basically just segregate their music into black metal bits and post-rock bits, usually with neither style being played in a particularly interesting way. Deafheaven aren't the bee's knees either, if you ask me, but it is interesting to finally hear a band do a legitimate hybrid.

I quite like post-rock (though, like any genre, it's full of terrible bands and really mediocre bands) and of course I like black metal. I also think there's enough interesting common ground for there to potentially be a lot of great music made in a true hybrid style, but I've yet to hear it myself.

For me, post-black metal has much the same problem as post-anything - nearly all the bands of all the post- genres take ideas which are prima facie good and milk them for all they're worth, then continue attempting to milk it for the same length of time again. I don't mean 'idea' as in 'riff', but rather the sort of motif that often recurs throughout a song. If you're going to write a ten-minute song, it had better have three times as many unique ideas as a three-minute song.

I didn't really know about post-black metal until last year I think it was. A friend of mine constantly told me to check out Agalloch's 'The Mantle' and he would keep bugging me about it, so eventually I checked out the whole album and discovered how amazing and atmospheric post-black metal can really be, but even before I knew of them, I knew of Hypothermia's non-black metal stuff (kaffe och blod, gratoner, etc) but at the time I didn't know exactly what it was. I've checked out a lot of these bands that call themselves post-black metal and most of it is ass, but there's a few bands that can really pull it off. It's been a while since I've listened to any post-black metal at all, but here's a few bands I discovered that I thought really knew what post-black metal was when writing..

Desiderium
Oak Pantheon

First off, it seems like the post-rock influence is overstated in many so-called post-black bands. I do dig a lot of post/cascadian/blackgaze ect.. black metal stuff. Black metal is an incredibly versatile genre, and can blend well with many other genres. However, it seems like a new wave of post (often deemed "hipster") black is sprouting up, one that is much less inspired and much more watered down. We have stuff like Liturgy, which completely waters down the post-black formula and is well known mostly because of what's external to their music. Then we have something like Falloch. Complete parasites and I fear that this is a direction we may see many bands go down in the future. They shamelessly ape bands like Agalloch and Alcest (not that everything Alcest releases is great), water down the music substantially (wasn't very heavy in the first place), strip the majority of the metal and add annoying emo/alternative rock clean vocals and attempt to market themselves as a black metal band. It basically is a mockery of the genre and is exactly what detractors often accuse it of being.

Anyway, Panopticon are one of my favourite post-black bands. They add all those post/folk elements, even bluegrass by which some divine miracle actually works, and still are capable of creating very raw and punishing music. Not so much with Kentucky but the black metal in Collapse is very thick and unrelenting and Social Disservices is crushing. I mean I do like some of the lighter bands like Alda and Agalloch (who for the most part can't even be described as black metal), but I think the best post-whatever bands are good because of a contrast between heavier powerful sections and the softer atmospheric stuff. Just look at Neurosis who started the whole post-metal/atmospheric sludge thing. They have some very atmospheric sections but also can absolutely crush. Even a more recent album like Given To The Rising shows how heavy they can be.

Also, really wish a better name could be found than 'post-black'. It kind of bugs me that when a genre expands it's musical palette people are quick to jump in and add the post prefix. I wouldn't be surprised if 'post-death' ended up being the big metal buzzword of 2014.

I have no problem with the term and love lots of the bands (Altar of Plagues pre-shittiest album ever, Fell Voices, etc) but sometimes, yes, some bands just sound wimpy and weak, like Fen. I'd say an overwhelming majority of the stuff I've heard in the genre is good.

I've never really listened to much of it and only very recently even heard the term "post-black metal" but I'm a HUGE Agalloch fan and I've never really had a name for their style.

However, I don't really hear that much black metal in them either, a little bit, but not a whole lot.

Are they really a "post-black metal" band?

I've always kind of lumped them in with bands like Rapture (though they are a bit softer and more folky) and kind of considered them a mixture of Folk Metal and Melodic-Doom-Death myself.

I haven't been positive on the style for a very, very long time. When it kicked off I was pretty excited about it, Altar of Plagues and Fen's debuts are excellent albums, and if you want to count The Mantle, it was too, even Alcest hit the right notes pretty frequently, although neither of the last two are black enough to count for me. Then in the last few years it became apparent the bands were not developing into anything greater, with the albums becoming increasingly repetitive and uninteresting, as it became apparent that the bands were putting less and less passion into the black metal side, at best making the contrast annoying and unnecessary for the few which were nailing the post rock, and for the ones who kinda sucked at the post rock the entire package was worthless. I really haven't heard anything above a remotely passable post/black album for at least two years, and it seems like the style is kinda dying, as bands are choosing the Cascadian route for the preferred style of bastardized BM these days.

Agreed, maybe it's how pretentious those guys are that gets them lumped with that whole scene. The same goes for many of the Black Metal bands in the Northwest. If you think Addaura have any Post Rock elements at all you must not listen to much Post Rock.

That's kind of the point of a lot of post-rock/metal, to indulge in something beautiful and simple. The repetitiveness allows you to focus on atmosphere, and enjoy something organically grow. I suppose it's not for everyone, but that's my take on it anyway.

As for bands I like, I'm a huge Les Discrets fan. They're not nearly as Black metal as the others people have mentioned, but I can still pick out a significant influence. The band covers a wide range of nuanced emotions that make the music feel very, very honest. The atmosphere is also incredible, helped in no small part by the stellar production it receives. I also enjoy Amesoeurs and the aforementioned Alcest (on a side note, they all share band members and are friends outside of their music). I'm not sure I understand how WITTR is considered Post-black though...I mean, it's atmospheric, but much too straightforward.

EDIT: It appears a lot of people find this style pretentious. Care to explain why? Seems a bit out of left field.

As a native of the Pacific NW, I can tell you that pretentiousness is just part of the local character and certainly not limited to 3rd wave black metal artists whose CDs are sold in the checkout aisle at Whole Foods. Out here, political and ideological associations function more as an accessory to one's self image than any genuine form of belief and that makes its way into the music.

My friend and I recorded a short EP of "Suicidal Cascadian NSBM" on Audacity a year back - I'm holding onto the master copy, hoping one day people will snidely argue over who found out about us first.

Wolves were featured on NPR and described as positive, "friendly," and other such things completely unrelated to Black Metal. Would someone care to link that infamous Liturgy interview?

Yeah...NPR fan right here

But do Black metal musicians need to be all dark and broody outside of their music? Doesn't seem relevant to me, and being content with life is hardly pretentious.

That's not exactly what I meant... Friendly as in thousands upon thousands of people won't be offended by whatever message it has.

I really like the style because post-rock is quite an atmospheric style and taking account that atmosphere is a key element of black metal, both styles can work together is the mixture is good of course.

I really like Altar of Plagues(not the new one), Deaheaven and other bands(last week I discovered a new band from New Zeland but the name was a little bit complicated and I dont remember it right now). I also like bands like Falloch and Alcest though they cant be considered post-black metal(specially Falloch).

Agalloch has its post-rock and black metal influences but I have never defined them as post-black metal, the influences are very varied and it is almost imposible to define them.

It seems that this style has become a trend in USA and other places, so I expect to see people hating this style because of this, the typical stupid actitude, dozens of mediocre bands will arise but also some excellent ones.

The lack of Lantlos in this thread is disturbing, albeit Agape had almost no black metal influence.

I've enjoyed Lantlos' first two albums but Agape is honestly the worst album I've ever listened to in my entire life.

There was a time when the term "post-black metal" referred to stuff like In the Woods, Ved Buens Ende, Solefald, and Into the Pandemonium-era Celtic Frost. As in, black metal that was often-times straight-up weird and incorporated a lot of unusual outside influences. There's a pretty good article on MetalSucks about it, written by former Cormorant frontman Arthur von Nagel.

I suppose that post-rock and shoegaze could be included among those "unusual outside influences," but the term "post-black metal" just seems to refer to something completely different now. I'll say that I love Agalloch, liked the first Deafheaven album (but have yet to hear the new one), and don't really care for much else in the new genre. As far as stuff that fits the older definition, I've been pretty big on Njiqahdda lately.

To be honest years ago I would not have entertained this type of music, but maybe it's an age thing as I have come to accept it more and enjoy some of the bands such as Lantlos quite a bit though I have yet to listen to their third album... Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the more aggressive or the more epic bands as such but sometimes I find it a bit more suitable to blast some Alcest etc especially when the wife is in the car who fuckin hates metal




I think it would be Sul Ad Astral you are thinking off bro They show alot of promise for such a young band.

True there is a lot of shit bands in this sub genre but there are also some good ones coming through -

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=scsu9OyG ... csu9OyGstk

Or the likes of Vallendusk, though classed as an atmospheric black metal band they do incorporate some post influences into their music, still the new album is worth a listen to anyway!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=4K95n9K- ... K95n9K-5c8

Post rock with black metal = post black metal?

Thorns, Ved Buens Ende, The Axis of Perdition, Solefald (early), Ulver (William blake's marriage...), etc - do you hear here a lot of post-rock influence? I don't think so. But these bands were one of the first tagged as post black metal - black metal which transited into a new form and has shifted from most common to perceive as norwegian bm shape

What's an example of a band that is "post-rock" or "post metal"?

Cause I don't think I've ever listened to that style, or more likely I have but just didn't know I was listening to it.

Read my OP. I list a few there.

Here's some genre-defining post-rock:

Mogwai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhN3sDibNCg

Tortoise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yomowCF5icY

Godspeed You! Black Emperor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Ty3YnWN80

Explosions in the Sky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd9F_liFXGM

The term "post-metal" usually refers to bands that are ostensibly influenced by Neurosis (usually by way of Isis) and have post-rock influence, usually of the guitar-based, Explosions in the Sky type.

My fault, I was going to mention them. Neon is a fucking masterpiece of post black metal, an album which is simply perfect from the begining to the end. The debut was great too but as you have mantioned Agape was...

Thanks bro! this is the band, ahhhh those names are too complated for me hahaha.

I must check this band as soon as posible!

I don't know much about this style but I absolutely worship Alcest's "Solar Song". That whole album is great but this song in particular is beautiful (it takes a lot to make me care enough to say that non-ironically) and it really reminds me of Type O Negative. I would love to find more music like this, particularly the soft, memorable vocal lines, the drifitng bass and that slowly uprising guitar riff.... oh man I'm pretentiously describing music for the first time in ages.

My radio cohost played a song from the new Deafheaven album last week and it was pretty damn good. I also heard the first song from that Progenie Terrestre Pura album and it really impressed me. Black metal has been one of my least favorite metal genres for the past few years because it has no replay value for me anymore, but I could definitely get into this hipster black metal, no fucks given.

EDIT: Damn guys, don't sleep on that Metalsucks post. I'm really digging In the Woods and Fleurety, I might have to check this Cormorant band out too.

To strenghten the never enough worn-out concept of : "it's a matter of tastes", I like very much the Fen music. And it's one of the principal bands to be included in this blurry "post black metal" description.

And so are Solstafir, which in my opinion is the best Post black metal act. Far, far above all the others. Listen to their music, it's an experience of ultimate pleasure and pain.

I listened to the new Deafhaven album a couple days ago, and I gotta say that I really enjoyed it. It sounded like what Liturgy would sound if their songwriting was way more focused.

Try Les Discrets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvcgBgb8o0Q
And if you like Neofolk, Havnatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3bsZfyBVJ8

Really bro? No love for the suicidal Nazi black metal movement? That's the concept of the band - they're ssssoooo ssssaaaaaad because Hitler lost the war that their only final solution is to follow him into the grave... with a pit stop along the way for cheaply recorded guitars, a line-in V-drum performance, and vox via Rock Band Mic.

Understanding this is a metal forum (and let's face it, metalheads are not prided on their open-mindedness), it's interesting to see how limited so many of you are in your appreciation of non-metal music. It seems some of you actually get upset when an artist has more non-metal than metal influence, as if somehow it's a personal slight to you that the artist sought to express themselves in a way that doesn't necessarily conform to some outdated rigid standard of what's "metal enough". That some even disparage artists "marketing themselves as black metal" (as though that deception would somehow be more profitable than marketing themselves as post-rock or shoegaze or what-have-you) is laughable because the only reason I could see this as upsetting is if one of you accidentally listened to an 8 minute post-rock/black metal song and was let down because the fat veiny boner you sprung at the first hint of a blastbeat or harsh vocals was prematurely deflated by a clean guitar crescendo.

No.

Yeah, pretty much this. The first time I saw the term used I believe it was an attempt to describe Arcturus's la Masquearde Infernale. I think "post rock" is a problematic term, and "post black metal" even moreso. The term itself does not imply any connection with so-called post rock, but rather a mutation of the mindset of black metal, or a use of some of its tropes to convey something else...In other words, "post black" bands ought to be related to black metal in teh same way that Wire or Echo and the Bunnymen are related to punk, I guess...

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I totally share this. When I think of post-black usually the first thing that comes to my find is Ved Buens Ende, Fleurety, Solefald, Thorns, late DHG and the like, even stuff like Virus or more modern bands like Code which still have plenty of black metal traits.

For the gazy stuff, I've always thought about it as metal shoegaze.

Right. Although from what I've read, black metal kind of arrived at a "shoegaze" sort of sound by accident. It rather makes sense to me as I don't think bands like Agalloch were really influenced by this kind of music, and also Alcest claimed to not know anything about true shoegaze bands...which also makes sense as they don't really sound anything like My Bloody Valentine or similar bands!

And yes, Ved Buens Ende, Arcturus and the like seem to fit the "post" prefix much better. Once a movement has been established, the "post facto" becomes the response to it, created from inside the scene by musicians who want to explore different themes using some of the original tropes. Therefore we get post-punk, post-black metal, and, in a literary sense, post-modernism. Not so sure about post-rock...why is Godspeed, You Black Emperor considered post-rock while, say, magma isn't? It's just because some journalist happened to coin the term in 2000 or something, probably thinking of post-punk at the time...not realising he was probably a good thirty+ years too late! Hell, Frank Zappa should be the postest of all post-rock out there.

It's just a trend, a marketing label, such as the stupid and nonsense 'DSBM' label.
It's so easier to follow a trend and to sell lots of CDs instead of trying to find your own identity without being influenced by the audience...

This phenomenon is largely responsible - among others - for the decline of extreme metal.

Does anyone listen to Vestiges? I don't think they're on the Archives due to lack of a physical release (even though they finally put out vinyls of their full length and split with Panopticon) but they're probably my favorite "post" black band to date. They're way more unique than any other post-black band I've listened to, and they have a ton of crust influence as well. They should be so much more known than they are.

^ I love Vestiges! And I think I've seen some people receiving stuff of theirs in the purchases thread.

I wouldn't say I'm completely sold to this genre, but I am open to it, and with it's post-rock elements incorporated with hints of black metal riffs.
Thus it's being coined, "post-black", which not many will find it acceptable for whatever reasons they have.

I don't see it as a trend, but rather, the individuality capability of each band member to churn out something different. That's metal, a very experimental genre that we all love, and it's how music evolves.

The hype about Deafheaven's new album, "Sunbather" is a hype worth talking about.

If you don't like Sunbather you're a fucking idiot. It's ridiculous. Same with Bosse De Nage's III

I love the combination of the two genres, because post-hardcore has so many elements of crushing atmosphere, that it makes sense how these can be incorporated into the swirling miasma of black metal. Hell, Panopticon's Social Disservices is arguable a post-black metal album. I love when bands focus on moments in music, rather than riffs, and goddamn - Sunbather does this wonderfully.