Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Nile577
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:57 am
Posts: 27
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:03 pm 
 

A frequent criticism of death, black and doom metal music is that it only expresses anger, morbidity, hatred and misanthropy.

Classical music can be all of the above, and yet in turn subtle, gentle, eirenic, reflective, lighthearted and happy.

Is it possible for extreme metal to be these things, and if not, is it a limited art form (it it is an "art form" at all)?

My intent is not to compare the merits of classical music with metal but merely to illustrate the deeper issue. I should note that I don't mean to imply that extreme metal music doesn't have a certain joy to it, and I should stress that by "subtle" I do not mean something that is "clever" or self-referential.

Top
 Profile  
trueMunchies
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:49 am 
 

Well, I'm sure you won't find much subtlety in any of those modern tech death idiots, something with constantly triggered blastbeats going on at 300bpm and random chaotic sweeping on top of it is not going to be an exercise in subtlety, but someone listen to Hell Awaits or Realm of Chaos and tell me there are no dynamics or subtlety to it.
_________________
Zorg85 wrote:
someone knows a site where I can get inverted crosses

Top
 Profile  
saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:44 am 
 

I think it is a difficult proposition but I don't see why it should be a point of criticism because comparing the whole of classical music to the extreme sub genres of one rock-based music genre doesn't make sense to me.

Top
 Profile  
Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8520
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:59 am 
 

Moved to Metal Discussion. I mean, this is supposed to be a discussion on metal, right?
_________________
Chest wounds suck (when properly inflicted).
-Butch-

Top
 Profile  
Noktorn
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 2880
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:36 am 
 

Does 'subtle' in this case mean varied in emotional wavelength? If not, I can't see why things like anger, morbidity, hatred, or misanthropy can't be expressed in a mature and multifaceted fashion.
_________________
Nokturnal Transmissions Records - www.nokturnaltransmissionsrecords.com
Septic Tomb - www.myspace.com/septictomb
Bonescraper - www.myspace.com/bonescraper666

Member #1 of Zarach 'Baal' Tharagh Crew - Fuck off the musical black metal!

Top
 Profile  
DerekBuhr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:45 pm
Posts: 151
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:37 pm 
 

It's hard to say. When the definition for your genre includes the word "extreme," which is almost an antonym of subtle, it kind of precludes that possibility in my opinion. You can obviously be less extreme to add a different feeling, for instance acoustic sections or switching vocal styles, but whether to an outsider that difference is actual subtlety is a whole other thing. I feel the song Regret And The Grave by Cattle Decapitation shows amazing subtlety in its variation of styles, and coming from Cattle Decapitation I feel it's definitely a good example of extreme metal, but whether to someone who is not accustomed to extreme metal would agree is, as always, the root of the problem.
_________________
Want to know how to get free music? Promote music. Join your local public radio station. Get free CDs from labels. Who needs Torrent?


Last edited by DerekBuhr on Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Praxis_Of_Evil
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:47 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:11 pm 
 

Here's the way I see it.

A song may be written to convey a certain emotion, but ultimately what is received is unique to each individual listener. I can honestly say that listening to extreme metal is for me a very spiritual experience, one that brings me a great deal of peace, and often makes me very happy. When I listen to music that is considered by society to be "happy" and "uplifting" I become either depressed, annoyed, or even angry. In both cases, my emotional response is unique to myself, and may or may not be what the artist hears or wishes to convey.

It's relative really. When I hear The Drapery Falls by Opeth, I hear a well-crafted piece of music that speaks to something inside of me I can't quite put into words. Someone else will hear the same song and think it is a pretentious piece of garbage.

So, that is the perception of the listener. As for whether or not the musical notes themselves can be considered reflective, happy, etc, I think it is an error to even think of it in these terms. No one can say happiness is expressed by certain modes and scales and instrumentation, especially when each person's perception will be different. To do so would send us into the same trap that lead Plato into his ridiculous absolutist theory of the Forms.

In the end we should listen to what we like, for whatever reason we may like it. Music is an abstract art form, and to define one genre of music or another as "uplifting" or "reflective" is a fallacy in and of itself.

Top
 Profile  
NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
Posts: 1390
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:41 pm 
 

Musically speaking, some bands allocate subtle expressions to instrumental/intro/outro tracks, others are sort of outside the circle and don't feel too embarassed to soften things out a bit (like Solefald's latest works IMHO).

Metal's extremity is more a mode of expression to me than an emotion in itself. It's not subtle sonically but even within that framework a complex range of emotions can be explored.
_________________
The solitary one waits for grace...

Top
 Profile  
Satanic_Shoe
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:52 am
Posts: 249
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:05 pm 
 

Subtlety in metal? See: Neurosis - Through Silver In Blood.

Top
 Profile  
Noktorn
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 2880
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:47 pm 
 

Satanic_Shoe wrote:
Subtlety in metal? See: Neurosis - Through Silver In Blood.


Neurosis is the anti-metal. They're... wood, or something.
_________________
Nokturnal Transmissions Records - www.nokturnaltransmissionsrecords.com
Septic Tomb - www.myspace.com/septictomb
Bonescraper - www.myspace.com/bonescraper666

Member #1 of Zarach 'Baal' Tharagh Crew - Fuck off the musical black metal!

Top
 Profile  
Cheeses_Priced
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:11 am
Posts: 656
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:54 pm 
 

saintinhell wrote:
I think it is a difficult proposition but I don't see why it should be a point of criticism because comparing the whole of classical music to the extreme sub genres of one rock-based music genre doesn't make sense to me.


Good response... I'd hesitate to say that extreme metal *can't* be x or y or z, ever, but it would be a stretch for gentle, light-hearted music to ever be called 'extreme metal', wouldn't it?

Top
 Profile  
saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:34 pm 
 

Cheeses_Priced wrote:
but it would be a stretch for gentle, light-hearted music to ever be called 'extreme metal', wouldn't it?


Yeah, it's called extreme for a reason.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ancient_Sorrow, inhumanist, Jasper92, MorbidEngel, thrashinbatman and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group