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alcholocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:05 am
Posts: 75
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:10 am 
 

How do you feel about there being Christian Death/Unblack Metal bands being around?

I feel they have completely lost the meaning of metal (especially death/black). Christian metal?! I mean what the fuck, really.

Take Frost Like Ashes for example, they claim to be 'Anti-Paganism/Satanism'


Here is a list of bands I found with these views:

Black

Antestor
Horde
Frost Like Ashes
Elgibbor
Fire Throne
Crimson Moonlight
Deborah
Admonish

Death:

Mortification
Pantokrator
Immortal Souls
Scourged Flesh

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InfernoxDeath
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:40 am
Posts: 475
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:18 am 
 

And what's your point for such a thread? It's kinda meaning less trying to prove a point like that
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bucfan5252
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:08 am
Posts: 166
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:20 am 
 

I am pretty sure there have been at least a thousand thread in the past that have been almost identical to this one.

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Ex_Nihilo_
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:24 pm
Posts: 11
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:21 am 
 

I not really sure what to think about it to be honest. I don't really consider christian black metal to be relevant to the genre myself. As far as christian death, I don't really care. If I come across a christian death metal band that doesn't suck on day, I'd probably listen to it.

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NecroSonata
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:24 pm
Posts: 586
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:22 am 
 

While I might not choose to investigate these bands, I don't have a problem with them being around. I'd suggest metal is more about freedom to express whatever the hell you want rather than specifically about destroying Christianity. Why should Satanists and Pagans get to make music if Christians can't?

Plus adjusting your view of these genres might help; 'Christian Death' is not Death, and 'Unblack' is not Black, I'd say theyre merely sub sections that you don't need to consider at all if you don't want to.

If the lyrical content is literally all preachy then I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy it as much, but then half the time you can't understand the screams of extreme metal so together with the music perhaps some of these bands are actually quite good.

Also, a Christian death metalhead is probably the most bad ass a Christian can be.

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InfernoxDeath
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:40 am
Posts: 475
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:24 am 
 

alcholocaust wrote:
How do you feel about there being Christian Death/Unblack Metal bands being around?

I feel they have completely lost the meaning of metal (especially death/black). Christian metal?! I mean what the fuck, really.

Take Frost Like Ashes for example, they claim to be 'Anti-Paganism/Satanism'


Here is a list of bands I found with these views:

Black

Antestor
Horde
Frost Like Ashes
Elgibbor
Fire Throne
Crimson Moonlight
Deborah
Admonish

Death:

Mortification
Pantokrator
Immortal Souls
Scourged Flesh


Why are you making a huge fuss about this? How does it concern you? That you're a satanic person and metal is and should be about Satan? What a joke...
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:30 am 
 

Christian metal is nothing new. There's been Christian music for as long as there's been both Christians and music in the same place. I hate religion and I can't stand Christian music, with a few exceptions in doom, which is only Christian in the same way witch burnings were, but there's no point discussing it really. It's not going to go away.
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STORMM
Veteran

Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 2782
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:36 am 
 

To be honest I do not listen to black metal for their beliefs or backgrounds, if the music is good the lyrical does not come into account, so I would not have a problem with unblack metal.

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Rocker114
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:11 pm
Posts: 14
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:02 pm 
 

I don't really care wether they have Christian infleunced lyrics, there talent is what counts. In fact antestor was the band that got me into Black Metal with "The Forsaken" album, too bad I didn't find their other albums as good.

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Tea_and_Crumpets
"Fail" is a sentence fragment.

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 277
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:16 pm 
 

STORMM wrote:
To be honest I do not listen to black metal for their beliefs or backgrounds, if the music is good the lyrical does not come into account, so I would not have a problem with unblack metal.


I agree. If it sounds good, I dont care what they believe.

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LordGothic
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 pm
Posts: 324
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:18 pm 
 

im anti-christian but if it's good music, i dont really care that they're christian

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:28 pm 
 

NecroSonata wrote:
While I might not choose to investigate these bands, I don't have a problem with them being around. I'd suggest metal is more about freedom to express whatever the hell you want rather than specifically about destroying Christianity. Why should Satanists and Pagans get to make music if Christians can't?

Okay, I think your views on freedom are somewhat warped, let me try to help you by attempting to make it more clear to you. Let me use the United States of America as an example: In the United States, the first amendment entitles you to voice the opinion that the first amendment should be abolished. However, at the same time, the first amendment also entitles those who disagree with you to tell you that you are full of crap and to slither back into the hole you crawled from. In metal, this is even more pronounced. Yes, Jesus-lovers are free to express the view that you should bow down and be submissive to God though heavy metal music, but the rest of the metal scene is just as free to tell those bands to get AIDS and hang themselves for being complete wastes of oxygen. Here's where the flaw in your logic happened. You acknowledge a band's freedom to sing about what they want, but you deny metal fans such as yourself (presumably) or myself the freedom to tell them to hang themselves if they don't want to suffer the torture we want to put them through. Quite a double-standard on your part. In conclusion, if you want to say that metal is about freedom, always remember that true freedom always goes both ways. If you have the freedom to talk nonsense, I have the freedom to tell you you are. Does that make it a little more clear to you?
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CountBlagorath
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:11 pm
Posts: 1042
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:41 pm 
 

I'm a Christian, but I honestly don't give a flying crap what a band sings about. If they make kick ass metal, thats all that matters to me.
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ACM
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 1269
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:43 pm 
 

Christian "Metal" in general is a joke.

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NecroSonata
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:24 pm
Posts: 586
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:51 pm 
 

EntilZha wrote:
NecroSonata wrote:
While I might not choose to investigate these bands, I don't have a problem with them being around. I'd suggest metal is more about freedom to express whatever the hell you want rather than specifically about destroying Christianity. Why should Satanists and Pagans get to make music if Christians can't?

Okay, I think your views on freedom are somewhat warped, let me try to help you by attempting to make it more clear to you. Let me use the United States of America as an example: In the United States, the first amendment entitles you to voice the opinion that the first amendment should be abolished. However, at the same time, the first amendment also entitles those who disagree with you to tell you that you are full of crap and to slither back into the hole you crawled from. In metal, this is even more pronounced. Yes, Jesus-lovers are free to express the view that you should bow down and be submissive to God though heavy metal music, but the rest of the metal scene is just as free to tell those bands to get AIDS and hang themselves for being complete wastes of oxygen. Here's where the flaw in your logic happened. You acknowledge a band's freedom to sing about what they want, but you deny metal fans such as yourself (presumably) or myself the freedom to tell them to hang themselves if they don't want to suffer the torture we want to put them through. Quite a double-standard on your part. In conclusion, if you want to say that metal is about freedom, always remember that true freedom always goes both ways. If you have the freedom to talk nonsense, I have the freedom to tell you you are. Does that make it a little more clear to you?


Fairly derisive, but of course you have the freedom to tell me I talk nonsense. I didn't deny anyone their freedom or expression, I said everyone should do what they want; it doesn't effect me and I don't want to get involved with it. I don't quite see your point; I understand that freedom goes both ways but I still maintain people should make music about whatever they like, especially if its good music.

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awm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:13 am
Posts: 1220
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:53 pm 
 

The main problem with Christian music is not the lyrical content but the fact that many of the groups are just lackluster "clean copies" of pre-existing styles.

That being said, there are a few bands that have succeeded in being Christian and making good music. The most notable is probably Extol although I've never really listened to them at length.

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heavymetalninja
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:12 pm
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:56 pm 
 

isnt it amusing to anyone how in extreme metal there are atheists who hate nayone who believes in anything because its irrational and a fairytale, and there are alternative religions like paganism where without being condescending, people believe in a mystical power of earth and whilst both these groups hate christians for believeing in god, they have absolute respect for each other? And then there are people who hate christianity and religion because they just turn people into slaves and obey silly rules so much that they decide to live their lives by the rules of some guy who wanted to make money through laveyean satanism. Its brilliant how sharp and consistent the opinions of a lot of the metal scene are

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awm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:13 am
Posts: 1220
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:15 pm 
 

The people who worship the Earth and junk like that without being facetious are the ones that I don't get.

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gothmog665
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:39 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:29 pm 
 

Christian black metal , oh well. Of course the lyrics / message is stupid
and musically these bands are weaker than real Satanic bands.

having said that , there are a couple of bands in this genre that I respect ,
Horde and Antestor come to mind. "Hellig Usvart" = incredible album.

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overkill666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:43 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:53 pm 
 

Hell, there's a lot of decent sounding christian black metal bands. Musically, I mean. Firethrone, Horde, and Antestor to name a few. Firethrone and Horde sound like your everyday black metal band, they just have very Christian lyrics. Once you can get past that, the music is good.
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Erdrickgr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:44 pm
Posts: 318
Location: PA, US
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:00 pm 
 

A lot of the apparent lack of good Christian metal comes simply because of the numbers. I'd say overall the quality of Christian metal is equal to secular bands, it's just that there are less Christian bands, making it appear that "Christian metal sucks". Let me put it another way. Let's say there are 500 Christian death metal bands, and then there might be 5000 secular death metal bands. If one or two Christian metal bands break out and do something original, that's the same percentage as if 10 or 20 secular metal bands break out and do something original. So people see 15 good secular bands and 1-2 good Christian ones and automatically assume that "most Christian metal sucks". But that's an unfair way of judging things; percentage wise, they would be about the same in a scenario like that. (Of course, I have no idea how many Christian death metal or secular death metal bands there are, but I am sure that the number of secular bands dwarfs the number of Christian bands, so I think my point is valid.)
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Valdar
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:56 am
Posts: 22
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:14 pm 
 

The only christian band I like is Frost Like Ashes.

They are fucking beastly.

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Wrath_Of_War
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:04 pm
Posts: 1330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:32 pm 
 

I don't belive in Satan, but love some bands that sing about him. Why should music with Christian lyrics be any different?

I haven't heard many Christian bands I liked, but that was because of horribly written lyrics or boring music. As long as the lyrics aren't all preachy, as someone has already mentioned, then I'll listen to it if it is well written. People who say "Christians can't like metal" are way to closed minded and have an immature view on music. I think many would be surprised at how many people are on this board who claim a religion.
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evil528e
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:59 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Va Beach, VA USA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:16 pm 
 

You know a forum is about the echanging of ideas... you need to come back to the conversation if you wanna get anything out of it. I only see you posted your topic and that's it. You don't wanna come back to the discussion??

And about the music... I think anyone can sing about whatever they want. Death, life, God, Satan... whetever. Crimson Moonlight is a very good band. I started life with Zao... but they don't consider themselves a "Christian" band. It's ok though... I still enjoy the music. I am a christian... but I have music from the likes of COF to Dimmu to Hecate Enthroned to Xasthur and Nibiru to even BSD and Blood Throne. I even have real Satanic shit like Xebas and Ukjent. SO? I also have Antestor, Crimson Moonlight, Wedding Party, and even old Extol and metanoia.

Metal is for everyone.
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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 246
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:22 pm 
 

Oh dear here we go again :headbang:, actually because no one is going to read this post anyway, contine this pointless discussion, go on, DO IT FAGGOT. Christian metal has always been around and likely always will be around and a bunch of "elitist" nerds on an internet forum is not going to change that. Actually ironically enough there are less christian metal bands than atheist and "satanic" metal bands, that makes them more underground than your favourite band.
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evil528e
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:59 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Va Beach, VA USA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:35 pm 
 

Naedra wrote:
Oh dear here we go again :headbang:, actually because no one is going to read this post anyway, contine this pointless discussion, go on, DO IT FAGGOT. Christian metal has always been around and likely always will be around and a bunch of "elitist" nerds on an internet forum is not going to change that. Actually ironically enough there are less christian metal bands than atheist and "satanic" metal bands, that makes them more underground than your favourite band.


You speak the truth man.
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Unholy
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:21 pm
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:55 pm 
 

EntilZha wrote:
NecroSonata wrote:
While I might not choose to investigate these bands, I don't have a problem with them being around. I'd suggest metal is more about freedom to express whatever the hell you want rather than specifically about destroying Christianity. Why should Satanists and Pagans get to make music if Christians can't?

Okay, I think your views on freedom are somewhat warped, let me try to help you by attempting to make it more clear to you. Let me use the United States of America as an example: In the United States, the first amendment entitles you to voice the opinion that the first amendment should be abolished. However, at the same time, the first amendment also entitles those who disagree with you to tell you that you are full of crap and to slither back into the hole you crawled from. In metal, this is even more pronounced. Yes, Jesus-lovers are free to express the view that you should bow down and be submissive to God though heavy metal music, but the rest of the metal scene is just as free to tell those bands to get AIDS and hang themselves for being complete wastes of oxygen. Here's where the flaw in your logic happened. You acknowledge a band's freedom to sing about what they want, but you deny metal fans such as yourself (presumably) or myself the freedom to tell them to hang themselves if they don't want to suffer the torture we want to put them through. Quite a double-standard on your part. In conclusion, if you want to say that metal is about freedom, always remember that true freedom always goes both ways. If you have the freedom to talk nonsense, I have the freedom to tell you you are. Does that make it a little more clear to you?


When ever I see posts like this, I can't help but imagine the author being fourteen years old and full of angst because his mommy and daddy force him to go to Church every week. Full of angry rhetoric, and accusations. I don't think the poster even implied that other bands shouldn't have the right to mock Christian bands. He just said that Christians should be able to make the music they want to make.

Music is about passion - pure and simple. It doesn't matter if you're a Pagan who genuinely longs for the romanticized version of the past you constructed, a militant anarchist who wants to show the world the social evils of the world, or a Christian who wants to glorify their God in music - so long as you genuinely feel the music, it shouldn't matter what you believe.

The main reason why most Christian metal sucks, its because it's trying to hard to be Christian [Insert Genre Here] Metal, rather than [Insert Genre Here] Metal that just so happens to be made my Christians and has a Christian message.


By the way? What if a metal artist was openly Christian... But didn't write Christian music? Would -that- be acceptable?

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evil528e
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:59 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Va Beach, VA USA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:59 pm 
 

Unholy wrote:
By the way? What if a metal artist was openly Christian... But didn't write Christian music? Would -that- be acceptable?


What wouldn't be?
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LoDebar
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:16 pm 
 

Valdar wrote:
The only christian band I like is Frost Like Ashes.

They are fucking beastly.


Ugh, I couldn't stand Tophet. It was terrible.

Now, on the other hand, Callisto, Parakletos, Lengsel, and Becoming the Archetype are awesome.

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Avaddons_blood
Veteran

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:23 am
Posts: 2677
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:24 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=32322

The best.

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Hjorlejf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:06 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:34 pm 
 

I dislike Christian metal solely based on the fact that Christians tend not to write metal well.

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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 246
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:34 pm 
 

Avaddons_blood wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=32322

The best.


Bullshit, this is the best http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=81757
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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 246
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:35 pm 
 

Hjorlejf wrote:
I dislike Christian metal solely based on the fact that Christians tend not to write metal well.


Have you ever actually listened to any? or are you just saying that to appear "in" with the forum nerds
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0kill
Patron Saint of Burglary

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:26 am
Posts: 857
Location: Cascadia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:16 pm 
 

Naedra wrote:
Avaddons_blood wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=32322

The best.


Bullshit, this is the best http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=81757


:metal:

The correct answer is Trouble, btw.
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AngelofDeath777
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:19 pm 
 

I am a christian. I have played in a christian black metal band.

I love Jesus and everything he stands for. and I truly believe that Jesus was the son of god and has risen from the grave. But i cannot stand christian metal bands that just sing about how "Jesus is the lord"

I'm glad to see that there is actually alot of sense among the people in this discussion. Metal is intelligent music, no matter what the extra-metal world thinks. If you are going to put forth your beliefs, You are going to have to do it in an intelligent way to be respected at all.

If you don't like Christian metal because many benads are trying to hard to show that "christians can rock too!!!" and have nothing intelligent to offer. I agree with you and can udnerstand where you are coming from, but there are plenty of bands that are not this way.

If you don't like christian metal because thats the "Metal" way to feel or because your your mad at the teachers at your catholic high school. I recomend you learn how to think for yourself.

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:27 pm 
 

Unholy wrote:
When ever I see posts like this, I can't help but imagine the author being fourteen years old and full of angst because his mommy and daddy force him to go to Church every week. Full of angry rhetoric, and accusations. I don't think the poster even implied that other bands shouldn't have the right to mock Christian bands. He just said that Christians should be able to make the music they want to make.

If you possessed the near-magical skill of literacy you would know that that's the exact same thing I said in my post, except that I didn't stoop as low as to try to accuse NecroSonata of being fourteen years old.
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1236
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:49 pm 
 

This is the worst thread ever. Judaic religions should be abolished and all their apologists and sheep should get a slap upside the head for believing such tomfoolery.
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Avaddons_blood
Veteran

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:23 am
Posts: 2677
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:01 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
This is the worst thread ever. Judaic religions should be abolished and all their apologists and sheep should get a slap upside the head for believing such tomfoolery.


Why?

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Eurnonymous
Streetcleaner

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:46 am
Posts: 3103
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:06 pm 
 

i think Christian black metal is a horrible joke; why bother playing music in a genre firmly rooted in anti Christianity? it's like a Nazi trying to convert Jews to the ideologies of Nazism. are Christians trying to convert black metal fans who already have their own ideologies or beliefs towards Christianity through the power of "extreme music"? is this some kind of missionary trip on the part of the Christians to deploy Christian "Black Metal" bands to areas of the world where Black Metal is more popular? it sounds more like a death wish to me, on their part. they will be impaled and burned just like their churches! Release the Varg!

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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 246
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:18 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
This is the worst thread ever. Judaic religions should be abolished and all their apologists and sheep should get a slap upside the head for believing such tomfoolery.


Eurnonymous wrote:
i think Christian black metal is a horrible joke; why bother playing music in a genre firmly rooted in anti Christianity? it's like a Nazi trying to convert Jews to the ideologies of Nazism. are Christians trying to convert black metal fans who already have their own ideologies or beliefs towards Christianity through the power of "extreme music"? is this some kind of missionary trip on the part of the Christians to deploy Christian "Black Metal" bands to areas of the world where Black Metal is more popular? it sounds more like a death wish to me, on their part. they will be impaled and burned just like their churches! Release the Varg!


Here they come again. You do however make some valid points
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