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Lich_King
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:18 pm
Posts: 170
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:03 pm 
 

AltoVariago wrote:
anyway just for the record when i listen to metal headbanging and "good time" are far less relevant (than) catharsis or atmosphere to me

I think that's boiling down the issue at hand nicely... "what do you want to get out of metal?" Catharsis and atmosphere are the furthest things from my mind when I'm listening to metal. I like tweaking the aggressive nerve and grinding teeth, but having a great time doing it. It never occurs to me that someone likes metal but isn't looking to headbang, but I guess that's valid.

If I were looking for catharsis and atmosphere I think I'd be firmly against the new wave of thrash too, and maybe even agree with the OP.

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Jonpo
Hypercolombowler

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 4489
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:15 pm 
 

I really don't see why it has to be one or the other. Sometimes I just want to bang my fucking head and go nuts. Sometimes I want atmospheric, textured music with a great build and release.

PLEASE COME EXIST IN THE GREY AREA WITH ME ITS AWESOME IN HERE

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AltoVariago
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 189
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:19 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
PLEASE COME EXIST IN THE GREY AREA WITH ME ITS AWESOME IN HERE


wow great line LOL
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CryingForDeath
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:32 pm
Posts: 17
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:42 pm 
 

I just want to add that thrash is most definitely not made obsolete due to the existence of DM.
It has at least as much diversity in feel, ranging from evil, to fun, brutal, epic, melodic, etc. Also a thrash song along the lines of say, Assassin by Morbid Saint walks the line nicely between being hooky as fuck and being a long twisting riff-maze. Most DM (especially modern) is wayyyyy far out into riff-maze territory, and there is also significantly less vocal distinction.
And lastly, some may disagree, but I still think say Demolition Hammer is as brutal or moreso than any DM I've heard, especially modern. You lose a lot of the primal brick to the face effect with too much artificialness in the production and too much focus on musicianship.
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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8754
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:43 pm 
 

CryingForDeath wrote:
I just want to add that thrash is most definitely not made obsolete due to the existence of DM.


Who said that?

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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4323
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:45 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
CryingForDeath wrote:
I just want to add that thrash is most definitely not made obsolete due to the existence of DM.


Who said that?


AltoVagario, previous page.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 9612
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:03 pm 
 

Noktorn wrote:
invoked wrote:
Noone is denying your right to produce thrash in the traditional style, the fact is just that too many bands are forming to follow a set path, complete with attire, sound, and lyrical subject. It's totally cool if you want to use '86 thrash as a model, but it's not necessary to have another Kreator/Slayer/Exodus, because one is enough, see what I mean?

This is the upshot of the OP.

So you think these incredibly imaginative and talented bands would be doing what, exactly, if not imitating 80s thrash?
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Karnstein_Records
Not yet ready for a custom title

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 am
Posts: 1201
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:15 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Noktorn wrote:
invoked wrote:
Noone is denying your right to produce thrash in the traditional style, the fact is just that too many bands are forming to follow a set path, complete with attire, sound, and lyrical subject. It's totally cool if you want to use '86 thrash as a model, but it's not necessary to have another Kreator/Slayer/Exodus, because one is enough, see what I mean?

This is the upshot of the OP.

So you think these incredibly imaginative and talented bands would be doing what, exactly, if not imitating 80s thrash?


Making the same big steps that Slayer, Exodus and Kreator did back in their day. I personally can't speak for invoked or Noktorn, but I'm not really digging at the bands that imitate 80s thrash - if that's all they want to do then that's cool. But I find it a shame that there hasn't been much progression in the last 10 years because of the whole retro thing.
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Cheeses_Priced
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:11 am
Posts: 656
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:56 pm 
 

Lich_King wrote:
AltoVariago wrote:
anyway just for the record when i listen to metal headbanging and "good time" are far less relevant (than) catharsis or atmosphere to me

I think that's boiling down the issue at hand nicely... "what do you want to get out of metal?" Catharsis and atmosphere are the furthest things from my mind when I'm listening to metal. I like tweaking the aggressive nerve and grinding teeth, but having a great time doing it. It never occurs to me that someone likes metal but isn't looking to headbang, but I guess that's valid.

If I were looking for catharsis and atmosphere I think I'd be firmly against the new wave of thrash too, and maybe even agree with the OP.


I think that's a good take on it. How many of the people here who are vehemently against retro thrash listen to that much thrash in the first place?

It kind of breaks my heart that a band like Deceased is apparently so much less popular than the better-known retro thrash bands, but hey... I guess I ain't in the target audience. If Deceased (or whoever) can't find a huge audience, that's not really Evile's fault. Thrash fans seem to have very, uh, particular taste. But Deceased is a band I would hold up as being a good example of having their own sound and doing things their own way, and if they're too far off in modern faggy avant-garde lala land, I'm just gonna have to hang up and go home.

As a death metal fan, it's more annoying to me that churning out the 50 millionth album that sounds like Entombed automatically wins so much respect. I haven't found a whole lot to enjoy in the supposed new wave of old school death metal... lots of 'okay if you like that sort of thing' stuff, but not much to get worked up over.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 9612
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:08 pm 
 

Karnstein_Records wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
So you think these incredibly imaginative and talented bands would be doing what, exactly, if not imitating 80s thrash?

Making the same big steps that Slayer, Exodus and Kreator did back in their day.

Apparently you missed my obvious sarcasm, but the point is most of these bands are made up of people who lack the skill, talent, imagination, whatever you want to call it, that is required to make big artistic breakthroughs, or likely even small ones. If they weren't playing retro thrash, they'd be playing crappy modern groove/thrash, metalcore, nu-metal, or something of that nature. thrash.

Karnstein_Records wrote:
But I find it a shame that there hasn't been much progression in the last 10 years because of the whole retro thing.

A completely unfounded assumption. Who says "the retro thing" is the cause? Besides, these retro thrash worship bands are a fairly new development, only really becoming big in the last 5 years or so.
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antonthereaper wrote:
Seriously, why ban me??????? That topic had nothing wrong with it! Theres something wrong with you i can tell you! You're immoral banning of my account! Anyways, i'm creating my own metal arcives.

http://extrememetalencyclopedia.webs.com/


Last edited by failsafeman on Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zakillah
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:35 pm
Posts: 388
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:11 pm 
 

invoked wrote:
One local band in particular that I dig is Deadly Remains (http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540268504), who do the old-skool Pestilence/Death/Asphyx thing but it's more thrashy and also fucking awesome. They slay live too, but for some reason they don't get quite as much attention as the Exodus worshipers.

Since no one did it until now, I´ll do it...Thats great stuff!!
Consider the link apprechiated.

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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 497
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:02 pm 
 

Without reading everything posted here I think there is a difference between any so-called "retro" band (no matter what style) taking said style, getting vintage sounds, and thus recapturing the spirit with writing great music; versus those who are just copycats and have really nothing to offer. Like any style of music though those bands/acts are few and far between.
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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6355
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:24 pm 
 

Since I am sure as hell not fishing through six pages of responses, I just want to say something brief:

I believe the heavy metal genre as a whole, much like everything else, works in cycles. Certain genres will become big one after another after a couple of years, except now, with the inclusion of more fusion/crossover genres thrown in. In several years, people will be upset with throwback death and black metal bands. Get angry with the "retro bands" that the "original" bands "did it first," it's certainly not going to change the cycle.
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spectreofdeath
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 346
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:28 pm 
 

to be honest, thrash shouldn't have died in the first place, because if it hadn't, these nu-thrash bands wouldn't be getting the attention the press is giving them.

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Lich_King
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:18 pm
Posts: 170
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:37 pm 
 

spectreofdeath wrote:
to be honest, thrash shouldn't have died in the first place, because if it hadn't, these nu-thrash bands wouldn't be getting the attention the press is giving them.

WHAT press?!?

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ENKC
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 2714
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:59 pm 
 

What about other genres apart from thrash? Is there such a thing as a retro death movement? Retro doom? Retro power for that matter? It'd be interesting to broaden this discussion somewhat.
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ThrashingMad
Skanky

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:29 am 
 

ENKC wrote:
What about other genres apart from thrash? Is there such a thing as a retro death movement? Retro doom? Retro power for that matter? It'd be interesting to broaden this discussion somewhat.


Retro death was mentioned in the OP, as for retro doom, well go over to Doom-metal.com and you tell me.

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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4323
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:34 am 
 

spectreofdeath wrote:
to be honest, thrash shouldn't have died in the first place


Yeah right, as if it had an option. Thrash's lifespan was always going to be short in the first place.
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BardInTheForest
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 967
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:37 am 
 

ENKC wrote:
What about other genres apart from thrash? Is there such a thing as a retro death movement? Retro doom? Retro power for that matter? It'd be interesting to broaden this discussion somewhat.


I'd definitely say theres plenty of retro-doom, although it's more Black Sabbath worship/rip-off and boring derivative stoner/sludge crap. Theres also the whole party doom thing which I actually don't mind so long as it stays much less popular than the obnoxiously ubiquitous pizza-nacho-zombie-skateboard-shark thrash.

Too bad theres not as much pure Candlemass worship, though.

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ogmetal
Veteran of the Psychic Wars

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:53 am 
 

BardInTheForest wrote:
ENKC wrote:
What about other genres apart from thrash? Is there such a thing as a retro death movement? Retro doom? Retro power for that matter? It'd be interesting to broaden this discussion somewhat.


Theres also the whole party doom thing which I actually don't mind so long as it stays much less popular than the obnoxiously ubiquitous pizza-nacho-zombie-skateboard-shark thrash.



Yeah, we need more bands like Pulsing Anus. Screw pizza/nacho thrash (seriously, why make shit up?). I'd rather hear epic ragers like "Barf in Your Ass" and "Butt Trenchers". You know, because that's SERIOUS BUSINESS!
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BardInTheForest
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 967
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:07 am 
 

ogmetal wrote:
Yeah, we need more bands like Pulsing Anus. Screw pizza/nacho thrash (seriously, why make shit up?). I'd rather hear epic ragers like "Barf in Your Ass" and "Butt Trenchers". You know, because that's SERIOUS BUSINESS!


Eh, I have no problem with having fun or singing about stupid shit (hence not having a problem with the "party doom"), I just have a problem with the trendiness of the whole thing and the fact that when something becomes so trendy it becomes completely derivative, watered down and plain boring.

Not exactly sure what you think I'm making up, though... maybe it's just Ohio, but it seems to me like there are way too many bands copying Municipal Waste's lyrical themes. Oh, and you'll never hear me use the fucking term "rager." ;) I thought someone might bring this whole thing up... I suppose let our riffs speak for us and ignore the song titles if that's what bothers you.

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spectreofdeath
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 346
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:35 am 
 

BardInTheForest wrote:
ogmetal wrote:
Yeah, we need more bands like Pulsing Anus. Screw pizza/nacho thrash (seriously, why make shit up?). I'd rather hear epic ragers like "Barf in Your Ass" and "Butt Trenchers". You know, because that's SERIOUS BUSINESS!


Eh, I have no problem with having fun or singing about stupid shit (hence not having a problem with the "party doom"), I just have a problem with the trendiness of the whole thing and the fact that when something becomes so trendy it becomes completely derivative, watered down and plain boring.

Not exactly sure what you think I'm making up, though... maybe it's just Ohio, but it seems to me like there are way too many bands copying Municipal Waste's lyrical themes. Oh, and you'll never hear me use the fucking term "rager." ;) I thought someone might bring this whole thing up... I suppose let our riffs speak for us and ignore the song titles if that's what bothers you.


Ohio? I live in Ohio and people are still into shit nu metal around here.

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 477
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:11 am 
 

Rampant_Fuck wrote:
I much rather discover new older bands than listen to bands paying tribute to the classics.

I can tell you from current and ongoing experience that it is perfectly possible to do both :)

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 477
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:42 am 
 

CryingForDeath wrote:
Well wight ghoul, while you yourself might not like hearing young, formative-stage thrash bands opening at shows, there are many that most definitely do. The vast majority of bands in any genre, especially in metal today, aren't innovating any more than even the most deliberately retro retro-thrash band. Has death metal done anything really earthshaking new since, say, 10 years ago? Black metal does a little better, with some interesting albums coming out, but for every say Work which Transforms God album that has its own kind of feel, there's still a million bands that just wish they were darkthrone or something.

And I personally believe that the retro thrash movement is reactionary, it is indicative that many actively oppose the newer directions metal is going in, and wanting a return to form to the traditional ideas and feelings of heavy metal.
Step one of that is just playing those tradional ideas and feelings, as has now been done. Step two is moving onward from there, which may or may not be possible. But it is certainly worth trying.

I think this just about wraps it up.
By the way... TOTAL WAR! :headbang:

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fragpirate
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:48 pm 
 

you guys want original progressive thrash? im starting a thrash band with a banjo and fiddle, callin it thrashgrass

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Deucalion
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:29 pm
Posts: 1235
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:14 pm 
 

fragpirate wrote:
you guys want original progressive thrash? im starting a thrash band with a banjo and fiddle, callin it thrashgrass


I read something where a guy called Megadeth's "Poison Was the Cure" thrashabilly.

Anyways, I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but if you are, I don't think that's something I'd be interested in.

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