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Dolf9271986
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:52 am
Posts: 510
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:31 am 
 

Hey guys. I have recently been thinking about how the Earth looks at Metal. Metal of the heavier and less-tolerant side is usually frowned upon, and disliked by many people, including self-proclaimed metal-heads. I have to wonder... Is that a good thing? I mean, if Metal were exploited, like hip-hop and pop, would we still listen to it? Or would we view it like we view rap now? If this were the case, would we listen to rap instead? Is the liking of Metal, to some people, just a way to rebel? Maybe. To me, I see it as something else entirely, and I was wondering what you all thought on the subject? Do you see Metal as something like a cultural pass-time? Right now, we are less than 3% of the population, the rest, 97%, either listen to other music or none at all. We are but a platoon VS. an Empire. But, what do you think the scenes would look like if we were 10%? What about 20% or 30? Or, 1%, or 0.5%? How do you think things will have changed? Do you think they will have been changed at all or a lot?
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DGYDP
Leather Lion

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 1244
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:39 am 
 

Metal is something I enjoy listening to, it doesn't make me any different from the rest of the population. It is not some sort of "race" or "identity" that defines you as a person, at least not to me.
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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4323
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:41 am 
 

Quote:
I mean, if Metal were exploited,


You mean it hasn't been exploited already?
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Dolf9271986
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:52 am
Posts: 510
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:45 am 
 

MegaHassan wrote:
Quote:
I mean, if Metal were exploited,


You mean it hasn't been exploited already?


More so, to ridiculous lengths.
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Tea_and_Crumpets wrote:
screamingstatue wrote:
I've always maintained that St Anger is actually a very good song.


ST ANGER ROUNDDD MA NECKKKA. HE NEVA' GETTS RESPECTT!

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Khull
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm
Posts: 574
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:49 am 
 

The popularity of metal is irrelevant to me so long as it didn't negatively impact the music, which unfortunately almost always happens. When bands experience true fame and fortune on the level of mainstream hip-hop and pop artists their music tends to suffer significantly, and whereas I'd like to be forgiving, I simply cannot accept greater income as an excuse to lower quality standards. I fear this would happen more and more as the scene grew larger, that bands would continue to sacrifice quality in return for income.

On the opposing side, that's part of the reason why metal as a genre is so amazing; very few bands try to gain mainstream popularity, and consequently end up being extremely enjoyable because they can pursue whatever the hell they want to. However, I know I'm not alone when I say I'd love to see some of these guys earn the money they really deserve.

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Expedience
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3761
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:54 am 
 

Of course it would be different. Whether or not something is frowned upon in a particular society depends on its popularity. Take alcohol and tobacco. We know both cause more deaths than all illegal drugs combined, but they are accepted because so many use them.

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OlioTheSmall
Handsome (marsupial) Beast

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:08 pm
Posts: 2585
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:57 am 
 

Expedience wrote:
Of course it would be different. Whether or not something is frowned upon in a particular society depends on its popularity. Take alcohol and tobacco. We know both cause more deaths than all illegal drugs combined, but they are accepted because so many use them.


To be fair, more deaths occur due to legal drugs than illegal ones, because they are legal. Therefore, more people use them and more people die from them. Imagine how many deaths would occur if ecstasy or ice were legal. This irrelevant to the thread topic, though.

On topic: I would still listen to metal if it were popular. I listen to it because I like it. However, if more people did listen to it and it became a more popular genre, I feel that the sense of community that many metalheads embrace, would be weakened if not completely diminished. I certainly would not listen to something else, less mainstream, just to keep up some form of ridiculous image. That is just down right silly.
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Anthelnor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:19 am
Posts: 192
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:13 am 
 

Personally, metal for me is not a way to rebel, in fact when I was younger, and just got into it, I was a bit ashamed of the fact that the music I enjoyed was so looked-down on by the mainstream. In fact, I would be reluctant to let people I just met listen to my Ipod, in fear of any criticism I might get.

However, I do believe that if metal suddenly became insanely popular, even without a loss of quality in the music, the metal "community" would always disappear, in the sense that you would not get excited and go talk to a person wearing a Bathory shirt. Just as most rappers would not talk to someone simply because they have similar musical preferences.

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BardInTheForest
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 967
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:55 am 
 

How many different ways can people start a thread about the same topic?

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brutal_osoto_gari
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:58 am
Posts: 6
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:59 am 
 

No matter how we defend metal it will always be dismissed by the majority, basically its not for everyone to appreciate and somehow i like it that way, the more underground the better... but that's just me

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lolocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:41 pm
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:05 am 
 

BardInTheForest wrote:
How many different ways can people start a thread about the same topic?


342

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GenocideEnthusiast
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:40 am 
 

Personally, I find metal to be the pinnacle when it comes to popular music (meaning non-classical or erudite music). I think it comes closer to transcendence than other pop music, the good stuff anyway. I would like it if more people liked metal, in an intelligent way rather than just music to thrash around to whilst drinking beer.

But what have the masses ever known?

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DrOctavia
Do Dark Horses Dream of Nightmares?

Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1344
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:47 am 
 

GenocideEnthusiast wrote:
I think it comes closer to transcendence than other pop music, the good stuff anyway.

Interesting, I don't think I've ever heard of metal causing an out-of-body experience.
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Zakillah
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:35 pm
Posts: 388
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:51 am 
 

GenocideEnthusiast wrote:
I would like it if more people liked metal, in an intelligent way rather than just music to thrash around to whilst drinking beer.

You take that back, NOW!!

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orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2463
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:02 pm 
 

I am happy that most people look down upon metal. It helps maintain its position as a form of rebellious music, which it should be.
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FateMetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:09 am
Posts: 305
Location: Uganda
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:28 pm 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
I am happy that most people look down upon metal. It helps maintain its position as a form of rebellious music, which it should be.


I am in total agreement with the above seeing as here in East Africa, hard rock music in general is frowned upon.
However, when I'm playing my Iron Maiden or Iced Earth, it's just the music I love and in that moment I really don't care for what anyone thinks.

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greysnow
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 am
Posts: 378
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:34 pm 
 

FateMetal wrote:
I am in total agreement with the above seeing as here in East Africa, hard rock music in general is frowned upon.

Could you maybe tell a bit more about that? What standing does metal have in Uganda/East Africa? I'm reading up a bit on recent African history at the moment, so I'm interested. I just couldn't imagine hearing metal blaring from a loudspeaker at a small cantina/kiosk/bar in the country(*), so I imagine it'll mostly be young middle-class city folk who will listen to metal at all, or am I wrong?

(*) What are they called in Uganda? In Rwanda, I understand, they're called cabarets.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6527
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:48 pm 
 

Simply put, there are two possible paths:

1) Metal is exploited and it turns metal into watered down crap.
-> This has already happened to a great extent, but look at the metal scene now: metalheads listen to more underground bands while many people still enjoy the supposedly watered down rock/metal bands. Metalheads don't listen to metal because it's popular. Availability of metal records is not a problem to most fans either despite metal being rather underground in mass media. This is because of the devoted underground fanbase of metal which the fact that popular metal and "art metal" became separate entities ultimately caused. Rejoice. And we don't really need to care about what others think about metal underground as long as we enjoy it, right? :)

2) The exploitation doesn't change the sound of metal and, simply because of a popular phenomenon, metal as it is becomes mainstream.
-> I believe this was the case in the 80s. Did it harm metal? No, not until metal was "exploited" like in path one, explained above. Even if everyone and their baby sister listened to metal because of this, would there be any problem? Metalheads don't listen to metal because they want to be different, but because they enjoy the music. Lots of metalheads complain that metal as is doesn't receive the recognition in mainstream media that it deserves - only the watered down bands do - so I guess this would be an ideal situation for fans of metal.
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Jarnroth
hurr hurr i post whiel drunk

Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 1214
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:04 pm 
 

I think Euronymous got the answer to what it means to be a metal head, it's to make the world turn into the following:

"I would get all things back to what they were during the cold war, then I would mix it with the barbarianism of the Viking ages and middle age."

Then everyone would walk arround in studded leather armor, screaming "Hail and kill!" and hacking at eachother with battle axes while huge stereo-trucks would blast "Deathcrush" with the knob turned to 666.

This is what we should strive for as concious metal heads.
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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
Posts: 1390
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:09 pm 
 

I don't think too many metalheads are concerned about popularity. If anything I sense more that people have found their niche rather than seeing things as a wider "movement".
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Wrath_Of_War
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:04 pm
Posts: 1330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:39 pm 
 

brutal_osoto_gari wrote:
No matter how we defend metal it will always be dismissed by the majority, basically its not for everyone to appreciate and somehow i like it that way, the more underground the better... but that's just me
I totally agree with you. I'm mainly into obscure black metal. I love it and appreciate it, and it's great that so many people have no idea who bands like Tsjuder, Beastcraft, Thornspawn, Tearstained, and others are. In the rare occasion that I meet someone who appreciates the same bands as I do, it makes for better, more interesting and in depth conversation, and usually creates a lifelong friendship, at least in my few experiences that I've met someone who's into the same music as I am.

I don't like the music I do because It's so obscure and hard to find, just as I don't hate the more mainstream metal because It's more mainstream. I just prefer the way the music sounds.
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Zebs3619
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:39 pm 
 

I learned to like metal over the past few years, and what helped draw me to it was that it was a whole new specrum of emotion that was brought out. it wasnt happy and jolly like a lot of indie music, and it wasnt whinny like most metalcore. Most of what i heard was pure anger and rage, mix with a very solemn soft side. We are all human and we are not always happy people planting flowers in the ground, so seeing metal embrace that other side was sort of a musical awakening.

If metal were more popular, I for one would enjoy it. I wouldnt have people look at me strange when they hear growls and double bass blasting from my headphones. Plus I would be able to talk to more people about songs and new bands. It would definitely help expand my library.

Of course there would be many bands spring up that will sounds like crap, but there will always be the bands that focus on quality rather than pumping albums out.

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Hjorlejf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:06 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:24 pm 
 

OlioTheSmall wrote:
Expedience wrote:
Of course it would be different. Whether or not something is frowned upon in a particular society depends on its popularity. Take alcohol and tobacco. We know both cause more deaths than all illegal drugs combined, but they are accepted because so many use them.


To be fair, more deaths occur due to legal drugs than illegal ones, because they are legal.


Not true, marijuana has yet to kill a single person in thousands of years of use. Legality would not change that.

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Expedience
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3761
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:34 pm 
 

Hjorlejf wrote:

Then everyone would walk arround in studded leather armor, screaming "Hail and kill!" and hacking at eachother with battle axes while huge stereo-trucks would blast "Deathcrush" with the knob turned to 666.



This made me think of Mad Max, not exactly my idea of a perfect world.

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KingVold
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 1082
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:45 pm 
 

Dolf9271986 wrote:
MegaHassan wrote:
Quote:
I mean, if Metal were exploited,


You mean it hasn't been exploited already?


More so, to ridiculous lengths.


As with HIphop and Pop, metal ahs been exploited just as much... NU metal, metalcore, and Glam Metal.

As wity Hiphop (and maybe pop) the underground is still strong.
So it has been and so it will always be with all forms of music, unless a radical change occurs in the music industry.


I personally would still listen to the same music I do now if it was popular.
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foz45139
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:48 pm
Posts: 448
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:58 pm 
 

Zebs3619 wrote:
I learned to like metal over the past few years, and what helped draw me to it was that it was a whole new specrum of emotion that was brought out. it wasnt happy and jolly like a lot of indie music, and it wasnt whinny like most metalcore. Most of what i heard was pure anger and rage, mix with a very solemn soft side. We are all human and we are not always happy people planting flowers in the ground, so seeing metal embrace that other side was sort of a musical awakening.


Fucking awesome way of putting it. :thumbsup:
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:13 pm 
 

GenocideEnthusiast wrote:
I would like it if more people liked metal, in an intelligent way rather than just music to thrash around to whilst drinking beer.

But what have the masses ever known?


Both sides have their merits. I think it'd be boring as shit if we only did one or the other. There are thinking man's bands like Pharaoh, old Fates Warning, Demilich, etc., and then there are rocking bands like Exodus, Grim Reaper, Saxon and the likes. Both are integral.
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Celtic_Fire_666
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:39 pm
Posts: 553
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:49 pm 
 

Jarnroth wrote:
"I would get all things back to what they were during the cold war, then I would mix it with the barbarianism of the Viking ages and middle age."

Then everyone would walk arround in studded leather armor, screaming "Hail and kill!" and hacking at eachother with battle axes while huge stereo-trucks would blast "Deathcrush" with the knob turned to 666.

This is what we should strive for as concious metal heads.


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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unclevladistav
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 1317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:20 pm 
 

I don't think anyone got into it solely to "rebel", but if they did, it seems the wrong reason, although they can do what they want. I listen to it because, prior to metal, the only music I enjoyed at all was classical and soundtracks. I listened to metal and found it to be different enough from the rest of the garbage that was easily accessible, and just overall enjoyable.

If metal did become entirely mainstream, then I think we'd see more of what has been already happening: more -core/alternative/nu styled stuff. Why? It's the elements of said -core/alt/nu added to metal that make it acceptable to the mainstream, since these are elements found in generally mainstream music. I believe this is part of the reason metal is my favorite musical genre- the artists almost definitely know they won't "make it big" by putting out black metal/funeral doom/whatever records, so they don't try to make it sound like everything the mainstream wants. No compromising.

The "no compromise" elements of metal make it all the more enjoyable for me, personally. Here is music that can be sad without being "emo" or "whiny", happy without sounding like a pre-school sing-a-long, and brutal without being "tough".

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NecroFile
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:01 am
Posts: 785
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:28 pm 
 

I don't think metal will ever be a mainstream craze to equal hip hop and r&b because it's too intense. You can easily hold a conversation in a car while listening to Beyonce, but Cannibal Corpse and Dimmu Borgir require 100% of your attention or else it will just sound like distracting noise.

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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:35 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
GenocideEnthusiast wrote:
I would like it if more people liked metal, in an intelligent way rather than just music to thrash around to whilst drinking beer.

But what have the masses ever known?


Both sides have their merits. I think it'd be boring as shit if we only did one or the other. There are thinking man's bands like Pharaoh, old Fates Warning, Demilich, etc., and then there are rocking bands like Exodus, Grim Reaper, Saxon and the likes. Both are integral.


But we don't really want either aspect taken to an extreme, do we? ;)

I do agree with NecroFile's post above me, metal is something that almost always requires my attention. If I try to use it as background noise during a social occasion, schoolwork, weddings, etc. I lose focus on whatever else is going on.
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Kruel
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:51 pm 
 

I agree with the point, but Cannibal Corpse and Dimmu Borgir???
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19235
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:52 pm 
 

NecroFile wrote:
I don't think metal will ever be a mainstream craze to equal hip hop and r&b because it's too intense. You can easily hold a conversation in a car while listening to Beyonce, but Cannibal Corpse and Dimmu Borgir require 100% of your attention or else it will just sound like distracting noise.


No, Dimmu Borgir will sound even worse when you give them 100% of your attention. ;)

But yeah, I agree on the sentiment. And invoked, yes, too much of anything is bad.
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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:54 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
I agree with the point, but Cannibal Corpse and Dimmu Borgir???


Ok, GOOD metal requires my utmost attention.
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ENKC
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:55 pm 
 

This reeks of another thread about "I'm determined not to be part of mainstream society, so why can't that same society accept my desire to deliberately not be part of it?"

I'm a normal person who does normal things in the normal world, and happens to like metal. Big flipping deal. The world doesn't care and no-one's trying to oppress me, so it's all good.
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:29 pm 
 

I just listen to metal because I like it. If it's not mainstream, so be it. If people make fun of me for being a metalhead, then so be it, I know I like the music
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:38 pm 
 

I just listen to metal because I like it. If it's not mainstream, so be it. If people make fun of me for being a metalhead, then so be it, I know I like the music
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:40 pm 
 

I just listen to metal because I like it. If it's not mainstream, so be it. If people make fun of me for being a metalhead, then so be it, I know I like the music
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:43 pm 
 

I just listen to metal because I like it. If it's not mainstream, so be it. If people make fun of me for being a metalhead, then so be it, I know I like the music
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Ciraxos
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:08 am
Posts: 193
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:47 pm 
 

A lot of people at my school are metal-heads. Yes, we are all looked down upon. Mostly because people assume that all metal-heads are anti-christian. They think that all metal has to do with Satan. Like I said a lot of people at my school are metal-heads, but they all like the shit that plays on the radio and all of the more mainstream metal. I have yet to meet face to face with somebody that likes Burzum.

If metal were the more popular thing instead of rap, I'd still listen to it. My entire life is music and my instruments.

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