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awm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:07 pm 
 

Assuming that "Roots Bloody Roots" is the most marketable Sepultura song, compare that to "Unforgiven 2."

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Wet Pussy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:23 am 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
colin040 wrote:
MegaHassan wrote:
Beneath the remains has good production, but the vocals sound tired (imo) and the band at times feels like they're running out of ideas and start to fill giant gaps in their songs with random riffs. Mass Hypnosis is the perfect example of this.

I'd give it 80%. Not great, just decent.


What do you like so much about ''Morbid Visions''?

I personally like it much as well, but just interested in hearing your opinion about it.


Speaking for myself, I think "Morbid Visions" just has an amazing feeling to it. It's nowhere near as ferocious as say, "Bloody Vengeance" or "INRI", but the sound is evil and songs like "Show me the Wrath" contain lots off memorable and dark riffs. Also, that cracking snare sound just rules, and the fact that the guitars are slightly out of tune with each other during the entire album's length makes for a strange warbly effect that somehow just works in a way that is totally illogical.


You spoke for me too, I agree with your post.
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Eurnonymous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:41 am 
 

Wrath_Of_War wrote:
Eurnonymous wrote:
even Max Cavalera wants nothing to do with the band nowadays.
That's why Soulfly is always covering Sepultura songs? That's why the songs "The Song Remains Insane" and "Terrorist" have lyrics that were previously used in Sepultura songs?


i mean he wants nothing to do with them as in no reunion shows, etc. he is happy with soulfly and cavalera conspiracy. it's like the same attitude that Rob Zombie has: sure he still plays White Zombie songs live, but he almost has to, since that's what so many people know (knew) him for. but he wants nothing at all to do with anything white zombie related, no reunion either or anything else. he put the nail in the coffin for them just as Max has mostly done for Sepultura.

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Lagartija
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 468
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:23 am 
 

Shadoeking wrote:
Sepultura is plenty popular. Their early stuff is held in very high esteem but they went downhill quite a bit.

That's it. "Beneath the remains" and "Arise" (I haven't heard "Schizophrenia" and I'll have to go back to "Morbid visions") are immense albums.

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MMM88
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:10 am
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:21 pm 
 

If you mean the Max era Sepultura then they are pretty popular, personally I would put them in the top 5 best thrash bands of all time.

As for the new Sepultura with the new guy, they are a completely different band, though I think people should stop talking shit about them.. they actually sound decent comapred to other crap out there.
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Wrath_Of_War
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:16 pm 
 

Eurnonymous wrote:
Wrath_Of_War wrote:
Eurnonymous wrote:
even Max Cavalera wants nothing to do with the band nowadays.
That's why Soulfly is always covering Sepultura songs? That's why the songs "The Song Remains Insane" and "Terrorist" have lyrics that were previously used in Sepultura songs?


i mean he wants nothing to do with them as in no reunion shows, etc. he is happy with soulfly and cavalera conspiracy. it's like the same attitude that Rob Zombie has: sure he still plays White Zombie songs live, but he almost has to, since that's what so many people know (knew) him for. but he wants nothing at all to do with anything white zombie related, no reunion either or anything else. he put the nail in the coffin for them just as Max has mostly done for Sepultura.
Oh okay. I see what you're saying, and it makes sense. I misunderstood you at first.

Lagartija wrote:
That's it. "Beneath the remains" and "Arise" (I haven't heard "Schizophrenia" and I'll have to go back to "Morbid visions") are immense albums.
Morbid Visions is my favorite full length album from this band, but you have to listen to Schizophrenia as soon as you get the chance. It's SO much better than any album that followed.
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EricFGregory
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:27 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:35 am 
 

Eurnonymous wrote:
Wrath_Of_War wrote:
Eurnonymous wrote:
even Max Cavalera wants nothing to do with the band nowadays.
That's why Soulfly is always covering Sepultura songs? That's why the songs "The Song Remains Insane" and "Terrorist" have lyrics that were previously used in Sepultura songs?


i mean he wants nothing to do with them as in no reunion shows, etc. he is happy with soulfly and cavalera conspiracy. it's like the same attitude that Rob Zombie has: sure he still plays White Zombie songs live, but he almost has to, since that's what so many people know (knew) him for. but he wants nothing at all to do with anything white zombie related, no reunion either or anything else. he put the nail in the coffin for them just as Max has mostly done for Sepultura.


Actually he's on the record as saying he would like to do a Sepultura reunion, or at least that he isn't opposed to the idea and would enjoy it. It's the rest of Sep (what is left of it) that are against it.



PlagueRages wrote:
MegaHassan wrote:
Who cares about Max Cavalera? His stuff with Soulfly and the debut Cavalera Conspiracy album is 10 times worse than all the post-Arise stuff that Sepultura released.


Tbh I thought Dark Ages was an ok album, haven't heard Soulfly's newest though, can't be arsed to either.


Paraphrasing Max "Conquer makes The Dark Ages sound like pop music."
It was better.

Cavalera Conspiracy's Inflikted or however they spelled it, was also an album that I liked.. oh, and for those of you who haven't guessed I'm a fan of Max Cavalera's work.

Also; hi.

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Eurnonymous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:46 am 
 

EricFGregory wrote:
Actually he's on the record as saying he would like to do a Sepultura reunion, or at least that he isn't opposed to the idea and would enjoy it. It's the rest of Sep (what is left of it) that are against it.


i went back and read an interview with Max from Nov. 2008, and he said that after playing with Igor again and getting back in good standing with him, that he is open to a Sepultura reunion; only he wants to do one from the early lineup with those members, aka the Death Metal Sepultura. i am really surprised he would want to go back that far, but that sounds great.

the last i had read in an interview with him, he had said he did not want to 'cash in' on the Sepultura fame any longer, and instead continue with Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy.

who knows what will happen. i could only imagine an immensely successful tour coming from this. Guns N' Roses will never have a reunion tour, so Sepultura might as well. :p

sections of the interview here: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=108755

the original interview article is also linked to that page.

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cashitorcuturself
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:54 pm
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:57 am 
 

They even made that fucking Volkswagen commercial. How could they be more pupular, huh?
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Wet Pussy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:00 am 
 

I think that if Max reunites with the original Sepultura line up, they'll end up recording a cover album of classic death metal songs.. done in a retarded modern fashion... like how they covered Possessed's Excorcist.
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Eurnonymous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:06 am 
 

MegaHassan wrote:
death metal..done in a retarded modern fashion


deathcore?

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Wet Pussy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:47 am 
 

Not exactly. Dunno how to describe it, listen to Cavelara Conspiracy's cover of that Possessed song I mentioned.
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Wrath_Of_War
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:12 am 
 

Eurnonymous wrote:
EricFGregory wrote:
Actually he's on the record as saying he would like to do a Sepultura reunion, or at least that he isn't opposed to the idea and would enjoy it. It's the rest of Sep (what is left of it) that are against it.


i went back and read an interview with Max from Nov. 2008, and he said that after playing with Igor again and getting back in good standing with him, that he is open to a Sepultura reunion; only he wants to do one from the early lineup with those members, aka the Death Metal Sepultura. i am really surprised he would want to go back that far, but that sounds great.

the last i had read in an interview with him, he had said he did not want to 'cash in' on the Sepultura fame any longer, and instead continue with Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy.

who knows what will happen. i could only imagine an immensely successful tour coming from this. Guns N' Roses will never have a reunion tour, so Sepultura might as well. :p

sections of the interview here: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=108755

the original interview article is also linked to that page.
I can't imagine a reunion of the classic Sepultura would be any good, because I think it would sound like it still has the new Sepultura feel to it. Look at the last shows with Max, when they would play songs like Troops of Doom. It just didn't sound the same :(

Although, if they DID do a reunion of the classic Sepultura, even if it wasn't quite what I was expecting, I'd still go catch them live, assuming they'd tour.
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Call_From_The_Tower
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:31 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:43 am 
 

Wrath_Of_War wrote:
Lagartija wrote:
That's it. "Beneath the remains" and "Arise" (I haven't heard "Schizophrenia" and I'll have to go back to "Morbid visions") are immense albums.
Morbid Visions is my favorite full length album from this band, but you have to listen to Schizophrenia as soon as you get the chance. It's SO much better than any album that followed.

This man speaks the truth. Although I happen to think Schizophrenia is a better album than Morbid Visions. Schizophrenia really is a classic thrash album and I think Sepultura's best.

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Ritual_Suicide
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:39 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:07 am 
 

I once heard someone call Sepultura the Metallica of Brazil. They started out fucking awesome, and when the 90s came around they fell off a cliff.

On the subject of Soulfly; Dark Ages and Conquer are compareable to Chaos A.D. Yes I am a Max Cavalera fanboy and have every album he has made from the dark masterpiece of Morbid Visions to the utter crap of Roots and early Soulfly. If you like Chaos A.D. you might like the last two Soulfly albums. Emphasis on the MIGHT.

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Wrath_Of_War
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:33 am 
 

Ritual_Suicide wrote:
you might like the last two Soulfly albums. Emphasis on the MIGHT.
I despise all of the $oulfly albums, aside from the first one, which I actually really enjoy quite a bit. :|

But nothing Max Cavalera has ever done compares to Sepultura's first EP and first 2 full length albums.
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Ritual_Suicide
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:29 am 
 

Wrath_Of_War wrote:
Ritual_Suicide wrote:
you might like the last two Soulfly albums. Emphasis on the MIGHT.
I despise all of the $oulfly albums, aside from the first one, which I actually really enjoy quite a bit. :|

But nothing Max Cavalera has ever done compares to Sepultura's first EP and first 2 full length albums.


I agree, but I would add Beneath the Remains to that list.

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KangTheTormentor
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:18 am
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:19 pm 
 

Even when Sepultura were amazing (Schizophrenia through to Arise) they were still pretty one dimensional.

A better question is why the fuck weren't Heathen more popular?

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Wet Pussy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:23 pm 
 

At the end of the day, what matters is if MTV takes an interest in the band or not. I bet everyone in the world would start worshipping a crappy bedroom band from Mongolia if MTV decided to promote them.
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Buried_Death
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:12 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:28 pm 
 

MegaHassan wrote:
At the end of the day, what matters is if MTV takes an interest in the band or not. I bet everyone in the world would start worshipping a crappy bedroom band from Mongolia if MTV decided to promote them.


Thats so true but then again this bedroom band from Mongolia could be good you never no :P
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Dark_Gnat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:54 pm 
 

Any word on what Speultura's new album (A-lex) sounds like? I probably won't get it, (because Sepultura doesn't really exist anymore for me) but I am curious.
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Omnivore
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:55 pm 
 

Sepultura is immensely famous for an extreme metal band. They should feel honoured for getting so far, from an amateurish group of teenagers to pioneers of death/thrash metal to filthy rich mallcore musicians.

Aside from Sepultura's great fame: why do so many people say "Schizophrenia" is better than "Beneath The Remains"? Is it because Schizo was more old-school and badly produced than it's follower?

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_Aargh
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:11 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:03 pm 
 

Omnivore wrote:
Aside from Sepultura's great fame: why do so many people say "Schizophrenia" is better than "Beneath The Remains"? Is it because Schizo was more old-school and badly produced than it's follower?

Better riffs, better vocals, better production, overall just way more aggressive and darker. Beneath the Remains is fun, but Schizophrenia isn't, and that's what makes it better.

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DBettino
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:30 pm 
 

Sepultura did not get as big as Metallica because they're not American. The biggest gigs Sepultura played in their early years were before non-English-speaking audiences. Also, Sepultura's really early material was death metal, far less accessible than Metallica's speed metal stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:41 pm 
 

_Aargh wrote:
Omnivore wrote:
Aside from Sepultura's great fame: why do so many people say "Schizophrenia" is better than "Beneath The Remains"? Is it because Schizo was more old-school and badly produced than it's follower?

Better riffs, better vocals, better production, overall just way more aggressive and darker. Beneath the Remains is fun, but Schizophrenia isn't, and that's what makes it better.


The main thing is that Schizo has better ideas. Like I said before in this thread, BtR had huge gaps in its songs which were filled with random riffs. I like the production on BtR (especially the vocal sound) and I like to listen to it once in a while but Schizo is better.
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Omnivore
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:56 pm 
 

MegaHassan wrote:
_Aargh wrote:
Omnivore wrote:
Aside from Sepultura's great fame: why do so many people say "Schizophrenia" is better than "Beneath The Remains"? Is it because Schizo was more old-school and badly produced than it's follower?

Better riffs, better vocals, better production, overall just way more aggressive and darker. Beneath the Remains is fun, but Schizophrenia isn't, and that's what makes it better.


The main thing is that Schizo has better ideas. Like I said before in this thread, BtR had huge gaps in its songs which were filled with random riffs. I like the production on BtR (especially the vocal sound) and I like to listen to it once in a while but Schizo is better.

I think those big gaps filled with riffs were what made the songs so great, it's like a build up to the thrash attack the songs usually ended in.
As for Schizo, the vocals were weak. Cavalera actually soundedl like a retarded Elephant Man attempting to speak through a pair of tits, but on BtR his shouts were really lucid and well delivered.
I have to say the riffs on Schizo were superior to the ones in BtR, but BtR had a wide variety of them and actual harmonic progressions.
Schizo might seem darker because of the basement production and lyrical themes, but you really can't listen to the songs and take the lyrics seriously. It's just a messed up Engrish attempt at making Portuguese-English translations.

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NocturnalHolocaust
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:33 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:30 pm 
 

Dark_Gnat wrote:
Any word on what Speultura's new album (A-lex) sounds like? I probably won't get it, (because Sepultura doesn't really exist anymore for me) but I am curious.


It sounds like the past two release by them - shit. Seriously though, it's just plain groove metal, and I don't think it's good either.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:24 am 
 

Omnivore wrote:
MegaHassan wrote:
_Aargh wrote:
Omnivore wrote:
Aside from Sepultura's great fame: why do so many people say "Schizophrenia" is better than "Beneath The Remains"? Is it because Schizo was more old-school and badly produced than it's follower?

Better riffs, better vocals, better production, overall just way more aggressive and darker. Beneath the Remains is fun, but Schizophrenia isn't, and that's what makes it better.


The main thing is that Schizo has better ideas. Like I said before in this thread, BtR had huge gaps in its songs which were filled with random riffs. I like the production on BtR (especially the vocal sound) and I like to listen to it once in a while but Schizo is better.

I think those big gaps filled with riffs were what made the songs so great, it's like a build up to the thrash attack the songs usually ended in.
As for Schizo, the vocals were weak. Cavalera actually soundedl like a retarded Elephant Man attempting to speak through a pair of tits, but on BtR his shouts were really lucid and well delivered.
I have to say the riffs on Schizo were superior to the ones in BtR, but BtR had a wide variety of them and actual harmonic progressions.
Schizo might seem darker because of the basement production and lyrical themes, but you really can't listen to the songs and take the lyrics seriously. It's just a messed up Engrish attempt at making Portuguese-English translations.


Sodom's Agent Orange had big gaps that were filled with good riff sections. BtR's felt disjointed and there wasn't any real flow. And as for Max sounding good on BtR? HAH. On every song on BtR, he sounds like someone who's been working non stop for the last 20 days without any coffee or tea etc. Mass Hypnosis, Stronger than Hate, the title track and especially Inner Self would have been awesome songs if Cavalera's vocals actually had some power behind them.

But on Schizo, Max's vocals were fucking evil. Not as evil as Morbid Visions, but they had a lot of power (sometimes forced, though) behind them and the songs were just given a huge lift because of that.

Shcizo isn't dark because of the lyrical themes OR the production. Personally, I don't give a shit about the lyrics in metal because its all about the music. And Sepultura's first two albums are musically darker. I do feel that a BtR-esque production would have helped Schizo a lot, because Schizo felt "borderline-raw" to me. More polished than MV, but not polished enough. It felt raw too, but not raw enough and the production left a bitter taste in my mouth after I was done listening to the album for the first time. I'm used to the production, now, but the songs would have been 10x better with a BtR-esque production.
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Wet Pussy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:27 am 
 

Quote:
I think those big gaps filled with riffs were what made the songs so great, it's like a build up to the thrash attack the songs usually ended in.


Yes, but those riff gaps AND the build ups felt too patchy and cut-and-paste to me. It's as if they just wrote a shitload of riffs before they started writing the actual songs, and then they just thought "okay, we'll put these riffs in that song, this one in that..." etc. There's no real flow in the entire album, except for the title track.
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bassethornmusic
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:31 am 
 

I also like Schizophrenia the best out its first 4 albums. I know this sounds stupid but the album cover's colour scheme and artwork just make it all that much better as a whole.

btw, anyone knows how the new drummer fares against good old Igor?

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SabFan1
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:33 am 
 

I had never heard of Sepultura until late 1996 when they played on the first Ozzfest Tour. After seeing them I went out and bought the "Roots" album. While I enjoyed that album it wasn't until I picked up "Arise" sometime later that I became a real fan of the band. "Arise" just blew me away at the time (1997) and I spun that album all the time. Definitely one of my favorite Thrash albums to this day.

As for the post Max era of Sepultura; I could just never get into them. They're turned into a completely different band. I wouldn't say they're bad, but they're just not my style.
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Lyrici17
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:44 am 
 

I think as long as the current lineup of Sepultura is alive, a reunion is just not possible. I think it would be weird for Pinto and Kisser, to be like, "Hey Derrick, and drummer, who isn't Igor, we're just gonna go do some Sepultura reunion shows with Max and Igor. I realize you guys are like, in the band Sepultura, but um.... yeah...."

Plus interesting observation:

Max: '84-'97
Derrick: '98-'09

I may not like Derrick Green as much as Max , but fuck, you have to give the guy some clout. At least within the realm of Sepultura; the dude's been in the band just about as long as Max was. Point being, he's not necessarily the new guy anymore.....
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