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TooHuman
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:46 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:49 pm 
 

I find the vocals on Decapitated's Organic Hallucinosis to be completely unfitting with the music. Nothing wrong with the music itself, but Kowanek's vox on that album were a direction for the worst.

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Cephalopod
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:04 pm
Posts: 38
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:50 pm 
 

Lagartija wrote:
Cephalopod wrote:
Obituary without a doubt. Memorable (dare I say infectious) riffs, but I can't see anyone listening to this band except for humor. Tardy sounds like he has severe cerebral palsy.

:shock: Tardy's vocals are among the best (if not THE best) in death metal IMO.


Seriously? Not to offend, but I'm really surprised that more people don't agree with me. It just feels too obvious. I can understand vocal experimentation, but when it comes to Obituary I don't see any point. Could someone please explain to me whats the effect hes trying to get at? He sounds like he burnt his tongue.

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WinterBliss
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:55 am
Posts: 309
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:54 pm 
 

Recently checked out Atomizer's latest album.The vocals are decent at times, but dreadfully attention grabbing and shitty other times. It's a shame cause there's a lot to like on this album, but the vocals really kill it.
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awm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:13 am
Posts: 1220
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:15 pm 
 

Yeah, definitely, to the guy who said Annihilator.

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 477
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:58 pm 
 

Cephalopod wrote:
Lagartija wrote:
Cephalopod wrote:
Obituary without a doubt. Memorable (dare I say infectious) riffs, but I can't see anyone listening to this band except for humor. Tardy sounds like he has severe cerebral palsy.

:shock: Tardy's vocals are among the best (if not THE best) in death metal IMO.


Seriously? Not to offend, but I'm really surprised that more people don't agree with me. It just feels too obvious. I can understand vocal experimentation, but when it comes to Obituary I don't see any point. Could someone please explain to me whats the effect hes trying to get at? He sounds like he burnt his tongue.

I think 'rotting flesh vomiting out from under a manhole lid' describes it :)

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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
Posts: 1322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:07 pm 
 

vashts80 wrote:
Lyrici17 wrote:
vashts80 wrote:
Death and black metal would clearly work with clean, melodic singing. Definitely.


You would have to find the "right" singer, but I 100% agree...


It's extreme metal. Clean singing doesn't work in extreme metal. See how that works?


Oh thanks for letting me know... your factual analysis has driven me to agree with you...


see how what works?
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vashts80
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:35 pm 
 

Lyrici17 wrote:
vashts80 wrote:
Lyrici17 wrote:
vashts80 wrote:
Death and black metal would clearly work with clean, melodic singing. Definitely.


You would have to find the "right" singer, but I 100% agree...


It's extreme metal. Clean singing doesn't work in extreme metal. See how that works?


Oh thanks for letting me know... your factual analysis has driven me to agree with you...


see how what works?


extreme
–adjective
1. of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average


why does extreme metal need to have clean vocals, again? there's a reason why there's grunts/growls/screams over the music. trying to turn it into normal metal with melodic vocals would defeat the purpose of it being extreme.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6480
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:05 pm 
 

It might make it less extreme, but by no means does it make it non-extreme, as long as the music can otherwise be labeled as extreme metal. Just because clean singing is not an aspect of extreme music doesn't mean that it doesn't work. By your logic, no genre fusion works, and not even bands from genre A taking influences from genre B work, which is obviously horrible logic.
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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 10757
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:06 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Just because clean singing is not an aspect of extreme music doesn't mean that it doesn't work.

Too right. Spiral Architect, anyone?
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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
Posts: 1322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:20 pm 
 

vashts80 wrote:
Lyrici17 wrote:
vashts80 wrote:
Lyrici17 wrote:
vashts80 wrote:
Death and black metal would clearly work with clean, melodic singing. Definitely.


You would have to find the "right" singer, but I 100% agree...


It's extreme metal. Clean singing doesn't work in extreme metal. See how that works?


Oh thanks for letting me know... your factual analysis has driven me to agree with you...


see how what works?


extreme
–adjective
1. of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average


why does extreme metal need to have clean vocals, again? there's a reason why there's grunts/growls/screams over the music. trying to turn it into normal metal with melodic vocals would defeat the purpose of it being extreme.



[sarcasm]Oh yes, you are right, I forgot, metal is mostly clean vocals, thus grunts/screams are less ordinary....[/sarcasm]

That definition doesn't apply when discussing metal as it now stands....
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:23 pm 
 

Lyrici17 wrote:

[sarcasm]Oh yes, you are right, I forgot, metal is mostly clean vocals, thus grunts/screams are less ordinary....[/sarcasm]

That definition doesn't apply when discussing metal as it now stands....

He is right. Clean vocals are the ordinary and common thing in most music in general. The harsh vocals, while more prevalent by the year, are still very uncommon in the majority of music.
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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:32 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Lyrici17 wrote:

[sarcasm]Oh yes, you are right, I forgot, metal is mostly clean vocals, thus grunts/screams are less ordinary....[/sarcasm]

That definition doesn't apply when discussing metal as it now stands....

He is right. Clean vocals are the ordinary and common thing in most music in general. The harsh vocals, while more prevalent by the year, are still very uncommon in the majority of music.


You think so even for just metal....?
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:42 pm 
 

That's beside the point. When playing extreme metal, extreme vocals work best. Likewise, Iron Maiden wouldn't sound right with John Tardy on vocals. You see?
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DreadDundee
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:53 am
Posts: 23
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:32 am 
 

I would say the vocals in Deathspell Omega's Fas- ruined the whole album. Tt sounds like that guy had a big chump of pizza in his mouth when he was recording.
Atilla would've done a good job in that band.

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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 10757
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:38 am 
 

DreadDundee wrote:
I would say the vocals in Deathspell Omega's Fas- ruined the whole album. Tt sounds like that guy had a big chump of pizza in his mouth when he was recording.
Atilla would've done a good job in that band.

I have to disagree here. I quite enjoy the vocals on Fas - Ite.... Attila would've completely ruined it for me. I mean, I can just tolerate his vocal style on De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas.
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:10 am 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
:o Van Drunen is the best thing about Hail of Bullets, his screaming sounds really painful. I wouldn't have anybody else singing on a death metal album with that concept.


Like I said, he's tolerable, and it definitely doesn't stop me from listening to "Of Frost and War". The music is really awesome however, and there are just times that I wish his vocals were on par with it.


:O

You are ridiculous.. please stop.

Van Drunen is one of if not the top death metal vocalist around.. you have got to be fucking KIDDING me with that shit.
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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:16 am 
 

I kind of agree with RedMisanthrope here...while I don't hate his vocals, they are difficult to get used to. For that reason, I probably won't spin the album as much as others.

Still, it's a decent album.
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Hybrid_Killer
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:32 am
Posts: 652
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:21 am 
 

MikeyC wrote:
I kind of agree with RedMisanthrope here...while I don't hate his vocals, they are difficult to get used to. For that reason, I probably won't spin the album as much as others.

Still, it's a decent album.


It took a bit for me to love his vocal work, can't get enough of it now though.

I think a 'popular' vocalist who I can't seem to appreciate (yet) despite the awesome music is Antti Boman. I give it a go every so often, haven't cracked it yet.

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RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 1951
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:32 am 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
RedMisanthrope wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
:o Van Drunen is the best thing about Hail of Bullets, his screaming sounds really painful. I wouldn't have anybody else singing on a death metal album with that concept.


Like I said, he's tolerable, and it definitely doesn't stop me from listening to "Of Frost and War". The music is really awesome however, and there are just times that I wish his vocals were on par with it.


:O

You are ridiculous.. please stop.

Van Drunen is one of if not the top death metal vocalist around.. you have got to be fucking KIDDING me with that shit.


Can you really sit there with a serious face and say that with men like Mikael Akerfedlt, Peter Tagtgren, Rowan London, Matti Kärki, Anders Jacobson, John Tardy, and V.I.T.R.I.O.L. are still behind the mic? If so, I don't know whether to admire or pity you.
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9788
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:35 am 
 

Damn guys it's just personal taste. Personally I don't think Van Drunen is that special either, so get over it.
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autumn_hollows
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:48 pm
Posts: 2
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:30 am 
 

SATURNUS

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Anubis
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 4:25 pm
Posts: 456
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:22 am 
 

Ritual Carnage- I, Infidel

The writing on this album is superb, riffs out the ass, great use of technicality and melody, but those vocals make me laugh from time to time. The lyrics aren't awful either, so it's a bummer.

Testament-Formation..., Demonic, or The Gathering

I really, really don't like Chuck Billy's growl. It's nothing but an example of a guy who hasn't taken care of his voice. I mean, I'll eat my words somewhat on that, as I have no idea what chemo will do to a singer, but I don't like when a subpar gravel takes over what was once a decent midrange.

Forbidden-Forbidden Evil

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, he works. "Welcome to the church of lies!" is venomous and just cool as Hell. However, Off the Edge may be the one of the worst thrash vocals ever.

Toxik, Realm, Watchtower-Most of their work.

Don't get me wrong, at times, these guys smoke. However, maybe its the mixing, but the complete lack of low end in the mixing, and the fact that fucking EVERYONE in the band needs to be the lead instrument at all times, takes away from the music as a whole. The ultra high, shrieky, often off key vocals, can really make it hard to take them seriously, lyrically and otherwise. This is coming from a fan of them, too. Agent Steel made it work by having enough low end. These guys make it hard to get really into it by putting everything in the high end.
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awm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:13 am
Posts: 1220
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:24 am 
 

Anubis wrote:

Forbidden-Forbidden Evil

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, he works. "Welcome to the church of lies!" is venomous and just cool as Hell. However, Off the Edge may be the one of the worst thrash vocals ever.


I developed a kitschy love for that song the first time I listened to it.

Listen to how he talks about getting nearer and nearer to the edge, and how that is like the worst thing in the world and he is screaming out about just how close to the edge he really is. Goddamn, someone get that guy away from the edge. And after being close to the edge for so long, the closing line, which is screamed, just places him "near" the edge, rather than off of it or dangling from it.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:38 am 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:
RedMisanthrope wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
:o Van Drunen is the best thing about Hail of Bullets, his screaming sounds really painful. I wouldn't have anybody else singing on a death metal album with that concept.


Like I said, he's tolerable, and it definitely doesn't stop me from listening to "Of Frost and War". The music is really awesome however, and there are just times that I wish his vocals were on par with it.


:O

You are ridiculous.. please stop.

Van Drunen is one of if not the top death metal vocalist around.. you have got to be fucking KIDDING me with that shit.


Can you really sit there with a serious face and say that with men like Mikael Akerfedlt, Peter Tagtgren, Rowan London, Matti Kärki, Anders Jacobson, John Tardy, and V.I.T.R.I.O.L. are still behind the mic? If so, I don't know whether to admire or pity you.

Akerfeldt is technically good but he's also ridiculously boring.
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:39 pm 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:
RedMisanthrope wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
:o Van Drunen is the best thing about Hail of Bullets, his screaming sounds really painful. I wouldn't have anybody else singing on a death metal album with that concept.


Like I said, he's tolerable, and it definitely doesn't stop me from listening to "Of Frost and War". The music is really awesome however, and there are just times that I wish his vocals were on par with it.


:O

You are ridiculous.. please stop.

Van Drunen is one of if not the top death metal vocalist around.. you have got to be fucking KIDDING me with that shit.


Can you really sit there with a serious face and say that with men like Mikael Akerfedlt, Peter Tagtgren, Rowan London, Matti Kärki, Anders Jacobson, John Tardy, and V.I.T.R.I.O.L. are still behind the mic? If so, I don't know whether to admire or pity you.


Absolutely.. I think I pity you most. Obviously your taste is flat out awful. None of those vocalists except for say John Tardy do anything for me. I like to hear pain and torment in those vocals, emulated by Wannes Gubbels and the afformentioned Van Drunen and Tardy.
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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
Posts: 1322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:36 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
RedMisanthrope wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:
RedMisanthrope wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
:o Van Drunen is the best thing about Hail of Bullets, his screaming sounds really painful. I wouldn't have anybody else singing on a death metal album with that concept.


Like I said, he's tolerable, and it definitely doesn't stop me from listening to "Of Frost and War". The music is really awesome however, and there are just times that I wish his vocals were on par with it.


:O

You are ridiculous.. please stop.

Van Drunen is one of if not the top death metal vocalist around.. you have got to be fucking KIDDING me with that shit.


Can you really sit there with a serious face and say that with men like Mikael Akerfedlt, Peter Tagtgren, Rowan London, Matti Kärki, Anders Jacobson, John Tardy, and V.I.T.R.I.O.L. are still behind the mic? If so, I don't know whether to admire or pity you.

Akerfeldt is technically good but he's also ridiculously boring.


I, personally, love his vocals and find them quite far from boring....
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:38 pm 
 

Check out November's Doom if you haven't, I like that guy better.
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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
Posts: 1322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:48 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Check out November's Doom if you haven't, I like that guy better.


Yeah, Paul Kuhr is pretty solid, but I'll still take Mikael....
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RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 1951
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:22 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
Absolutely.. I think I pity you most. Obviously your taste is flat out awful. None of those vocalists except for say John Tardy do anything for me. I like to hear pain and torment in those vocals, emulated by Wannes Gubbels and the afformentioned Van Drunen and Tardy.


:lol:

Calling my taste in music into question huh? What an amazingly effective and mature argument. You're apparently easily impressed when it comes to death metal, which means you probably like Waking the Cadaver, which is fine. I just find it funny that I name two pretty undeniably classic death metal bands, and you refute them, probably not knowing even which bands I was speaking of. That's ok, I didn't expect you to know what you were talking about.
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schizo_deluxe
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:18 am
Posts: 41
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:20 pm 
 

The vox on Morbid Angel - Blessed are the Sick are too high in the mix and overpowering imo
:boo:
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Kruel
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:27 pm 
 

Yes, but are they horrible?
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schizo_deluxe
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:18 am
Posts: 41
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:41 pm 
 

well yeah kinda. i listen to that kick ass riff at the start of fall from grace, then the vocals come in and kill it.....ok maybe not KILL it, but it does ruin it....
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cultofkraken
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:56 pm 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:
Absolutely.. I think I pity you most. Obviously your taste is flat out awful. None of those vocalists except for say John Tardy do anything for me. I like to hear pain and torment in those vocals, emulated by Wannes Gubbels and the afformentioned Van Drunen and Tardy.


:lol:

Calling my taste in music into question huh? What an amazingly effective and mature argument. You're apparently easily impressed when it comes to death metal, which means you probably like Waking the Cadaver, which is fine. I just find it funny that I name two pretty undeniably classic death metal bands, and you refute them, probably not knowing even which bands I was speaking of. That's ok, I didn't expect you to know what you were talking about.


Hahaha, wow you are superb. A)Classics would be both Pestilence and Asphyx's output WITH Van Drunen. The Waking the Cadaver strawman from you is undeniable fail. B)Don't condescend to me, I am quite sure I've been involved in more credible music than you ever will.

I know full well which "Bands" you speak of, your idea of classic and mine may differ substantially you tool.
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:19 am 
 

I'd say Matti Karki classifies as a classic death metal vocalist, Tagtgren to a lesser extent but still in roughly the same league. V.I.T.R.I.O.L hasn't been around long enough to be a classic, but the sheer inhumanity of his vocals makes him pretty damn good.

But still, Van Drunen is a damn fine vocalist.
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Sunkist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:17 pm
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:48 am 
 

vashts80 wrote:
why does extreme metal need to have clean vocals, again? there's a reason why there's grunts/growls/screams over the music. trying to turn it into normal metal with melodic vocals would defeat the purpose of it being extreme.


I thought doom metal and thrash metal were part of this 'Extreme metal' genre. Don't they both have clean vocals?

Silencer
Annihilator
most DSBM bands

Just completely ruined by bad vocalists.

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:52 am 
 

Some thrash and some doom are extreme, but not all. For example, Kreator or Dark Angel could be considered extreme metal, but not Anthrax or Heathen. Burning Witch or Khanate are extreme metal, but not Candlemass or Trouble.
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vashts80
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:50 pm 
 

I'm at a loss as to how DSBM bands are "ruined" by "poor vocals." The vocals are supposed to be deranged, full of anguish, off-key yelling and screaming and grunting. It sets the mood that goes along with the music.

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BehemothNZ
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:28 am
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Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:35 pm 
 

Absu, the vocalist is horrible imo.

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Avaddons_blood
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:23 am
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:39 pm 
 

BehemothNZ wrote:
Absu, the vocalist is horrible imo.


Odd, I have never heard many complaints about that..

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PriestofSadWings
Bishop of Dark Spaces

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:29 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:50 pm 
 

Early Fates Warning, specifically Awaken the Guardian. A singer like Hansi Kursch could make those vocal melodies work, but John Arch is no Hansi Kursch, and his vocals end up sounding like ballsless wailing just for the sake of ballsless wailing. I'm writing a new review for that album.

Adramelch are a pretty good band, if you discount Vittorio Ballerio's extremely strained-sounding high voice.
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