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Zebs3619
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:15 am 
 

Lately I have been somewhat interested in trying to find black metal. Though when I search for it on youtube, there are a wide variety of styles. Some bands with lots of acoustic guitar, some very slow and doomy, and others screeching the whole song with a fast tempos.

The only two bands I listen to that have a black metal classification are Dimmu Borgir and Melancolia. Both very different from each other, but I dont think either sum up black metal properly.

So what are some characteristics that would make a song black metal, that separate it from other forms of metal?

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LokiGoddess
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 608
Location: Over there...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:17 am 
 

Zebs3619 wrote:
Lately I have been somewhat interested in trying to find black metal. Though when I search for it on youtube, there are a wide variety of styles. Some bands with lots of acoustic guitar, some very slow and doomy, and others screeching the whole song with a fast tempos.

The only two bands I listen to that have a black metal classification are Dimmu Borgir and Melancolia. Both very different from each other, but I dont think either sum up black metal properly.

So what are some characteristics that would make a song black metal, that separate it from other forms of metal?


*weeps*

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Metal

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Misainzig
Epicurean Gynaecologist

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:30 pm
Posts: 2255
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:21 am 
 

One wise prophet once said:
Quote:
definition of black metal..lets see...to put it in its most basic, basic form...operatic meaning orchestras are involved, along with the guitar/bass/drums, you get my drift.
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:28 am 
 

Okay, let me help you out. First of all, Dimmu are not black metal any more, so forget using them as part of your definition.

Black metal is, in it's basic form, a style descended from thrash metal and holding some creative links with oldschool death metal. It is focused on comparatively simple, often repetitive and hypnotic riffing. The aim is to produce atmospheric music that feels dark, evil, cold, bleak or depressing. Tremelo picking, fuzzy guitar tone and harsh shrieking are the primary ingredients in black metal. There are sometimes influences from Nordic folk music, dark classical or crust punk.

There are a wide variety of styles of black metal. You have raw stuff like Darkthrone and Burzum, symphonic stuff like Emperor, melodic stuff like Dissection or Rotting Christ, blasting brutal stuff like Marduk, folky stuff like Ulver, Viking-tinged stuff like Enslaved and even some exotic stuff like Melechesh and Chthonic.
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Zebs3619
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:35 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Okay, let me help you out. First of all, Dimmu are not black metal any more, so forget using them as part of your definition.

Black metal is, in it's basic form, a style descended from thrash metal and holding some creative links with oldschool death metal. It is focused on comparatively simple, often repetitive and hypnotic riffing. The aim is to produce atmospheric music that feels dark, evil, cold, bleak or depressing. Tremelo picking, fuzzy guitar tone and harsh shrieking are the primary ingredients in black metal. There are sometimes influences from Nordic folk music, dark classical or crust punk.

There are a wide variety of styles of black metal. You have raw stuff like Darkthrone and Burzum, symphonic stuff like Emperor, melodic stuff like Dissection or Rotting Christ, blasting brutal stuff like Marduk, folky stuff like Ulver, Viking-tinged stuff like Enslaved and even some exotic stuff like Melechesh and Chthonic.


Cool, thanks.

I should have said inb4 Dimmu Borgir is not black metal. I was kinda expecting that.

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TheJizzHammer
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:47 pm
Posts: 1205
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:42 am 
 

Zebs3619 wrote:
Cool, thanks.

I should have said inb4 Dimmu Borgir is not black metal. I was kinda expecting that.


Have you looked into any other BM artists yet? Id like to know what you think!
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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1242
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:08 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Okay, let me help you out. First of all, Dimmu are not black metal any more, so forget using them as part of your definition.

Black metal is, in it's basic form, a style descended from thrash metal and holding some creative links with oldschool death metal. It is focused on comparatively simple, often repetitive and hypnotic riffing. The aim is to produce atmospheric music that feels dark, evil, cold, bleak or depressing. Tremelo picking, fuzzy guitar tone and harsh shrieking are the primary ingredients in black metal. There are sometimes influences from Nordic folk music, dark classical or crust punk.

There are a wide variety of styles of black metal. You have raw stuff like Darkthrone and Burzum, symphonic stuff like Emperor, melodic stuff like Dissection or Rotting Christ, blasting brutal stuff like Marduk, folky stuff like Ulver, Viking-tinged stuff like Enslaved and even some exotic stuff like Melechesh and Chthonic.

This is a pretty fair definition. Be sure and check out some of the early artists associated with Black Metal - Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer / Celtic Frost, Sarcofago, Mayhem and then the Second Wave bands, like Darkthrone, Emperor, Burzum, Immortal, Arcturus, Enslaved, Beherit, Impaled Nazarene and so many others...

cheers,
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mentalselfmutilation
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 1424
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:11 am 
 

black metal ist krieg!
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Zebs3619
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:12 am 
 

TheJizzHammer wrote:
Zebs3619 wrote:
Cool, thanks.

I should have said inb4 Dimmu Borgir is not black metal. I was kinda expecting that.


Have you looked into any other BM artists yet? Id like to know what you think!


I was just looking up some of the bands The_Beast_in_Black left

Darkthrone Burzum, and Marduk so far. Very different styles then I normally listen to. (melodic, tech, brutal death)


Edit: oh yeah, some of the black metal reminds me of uncooked meat. I guess thats where RAW would come in. . . , very gritty.

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
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Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:23 am 
 

You'll either come to love that rawness or hate it, I personally love it. ;)

If you're finding the pure black metal stuff a bit hard to digest, go to the black metal help thread and ask for some heavily death metal influenced black metal to ease yourself in.

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TheJizzHammer
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:47 pm
Posts: 1205
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:35 am 
 

Zebs3619 wrote:
TheJizzHammer wrote:
Zebs3619 wrote:
Cool, thanks.

I should have said inb4 Dimmu Borgir is not black metal. I was kinda expecting that.


Have you looked into any other BM artists yet? Id like to know what you think!


I was just looking up some of the bands The_Beast_in_Black left

Darkthrone Burzum, and Marduk so far. Very different styles then I normally listen to. (melodic, tech, brutal death)


Edit: oh yeah, some of the black metal reminds me of uncooked meat. I guess thats where RAW would come in. . . , very gritty.


And what do you think?

Also: Keep looking. You've already discovered that black metal is diverse, you just may find a few gems.
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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:38 am 
 

Misainzig wrote:
One wise prophet once said:
Quote:
definition of black metal..lets see...to put it in its most basic, basic form...operatic meaning orchestras are involved, along with the guitar/bass/drums, you get my drift.

As soon as I saw this thread, I thought of this quote.

Anyway, black metal has many different scenes throughout the world, each of them generally having their own distinct style. For example, Finland has the Beherit/Imp Naz kind of raw, brutal sound, whereas France has the Vlad Tepes/Mutiilation very lofi, more depressive thing going on. These are obviously just broad generalizations of how black metal in each country/region is, but you should check out many different scenes once you've nailed the basics (eg. 2nd-wave Norwegian BM).
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:42 am 
 

Yeah, raw is good once you get into it. Sort of like beer, an acquired taste.

Of course, there can be too much of anything, though. Don't be too surprised if you don't ever find yourself liking the fifty demo tapes recorded in a bedroom closet by Aryanist Jewfuck.
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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4806
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:22 am 
 

Somebody is going to make a band called Aryanist Jewfuck now.

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DrommerOmDod
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 am
Posts: 522
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:27 am 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Somebody is going to make a band called Aryanist Jewfuck now.


I think the name was already taken by the band of the wise man in your signature.
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Zebs3619
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:28 am 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Somebody is going to make a band called Aryanist Jewfuck now.



thats a pretty brutal name. hahaha

bedroom recording studios thats a little crazy.

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DenialFiend
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:15 pm
Posts: 892
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:47 am 
 

I totally agree with some previous posts, which explain very well the blackmetal definition.

OP, if you have loved Impale Nazarene so far, I pray for you to dislike them. The sooner, the better. Who in hell love blackmetal songs with duration at most 4 minutes? THIS is insane :P.

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Zebs3619
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:06 am 
 

DenialFiend wrote:
I totally agree with some previous posts, which explain very well the blackmetal definition.

OP, if you have loved Impale Nazarene so far, I pray for you to dislike them. The sooner, the better. Who in hell love blackmetal songs with duration at most 4 minutes? THIS is insane :P.


since you mentioned them I looked them up on youtube.

Impaled Nazarene - "Armageddon Death Squad"

sounds very happy, almost danceable XD
like furious square dancing.

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:09 am 
 

Black metal doesn't need to be simple, or raw, or fast, or have shrieking vocals. Some of the classic bands lack several of those supposedly defining elements.

What this leaves are much more important and much for unifying elements for the definition of black metal: Darkness, evil, hatred, misanthropy, individualism and a healthy (and preferrably violent) distaste for all things christian.
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Arboreal
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:59 am
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:30 pm 
 

You may want to check out Keep of Kalessin's Through Times of War. That might be a good intro for you. Not strictly black metal, but Destroyer 666's Phoenix Rising is also great. It's got a nice blend of black/death/thrash. Both of these might help ease you into the genre. You might find yourself starting with more recent material and going back through the years as you begin to appreciate the music more.

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Negru_Voda
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 327
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:33 pm 
 

Quote:
Black Metal, Define it


Boring, lame, pretentious, overrated.

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LotF
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:39 pm
Posts: 463
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:37 pm 
 

Summoning was a great gem.
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ScratchMyBack
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:04 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:47 pm 
 

mentalselfmutilation wrote:
black metal ist krieg!


Ich hasse es, wenn Leute sagen, dass "schwarzes Metall" Krieg ist, wenn das nur Musik ist.

If you don't speak German:I hate it if people say that " black metal " is a war if this is only a music.

PS?I'm only trying to test if German lessons are paying off. Hehe
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ScratchMyBack
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:04 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:56 pm 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Somebody is going to make a band called Aryanist Jewfuck now.


You just gave me an idea:

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/vie ... &start=160
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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1568
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:56 pm 
 

Misainzig wrote:
One wise prophet once said:
Quote:
definition of black metal..lets see...to put it in its most basic, basic form...operatic meaning orchestras are involved, along with the guitar/bass/drums, you get my drift.


Aye sir, trivium fan 19 was a great man who was infinitely knowledgeable.

I think the best way to learn about a genre is simply by listening to more of that type of music.

Browse through the BM help thread for a general idea.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10261
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:22 pm 
 

DenialFiend wrote:
I totally agree with some previous posts, which explain very well the blackmetal definition.

OP, if you have loved Impale Nazarene so far, I pray for you to dislike them. The sooner, the better. Who in hell love blackmetal songs with duration at most 4 minutes? THIS is insane :P.


Motor phallus action ... six six six ways to die!!!! Latex cult for life! I don't love any Impaled Nazarene album but that one though, for some reason .. just makes me crazy every time. "SUomi Finland Perkele" is good stuff as well. Nothing wrong with short black metal songs....black metal was originally intended to be violent, primitive and evil.
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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:24 pm 
 

As with any genre, I would suggest digging into the roots and then exploring. It can help your search and digging expedition very well indeed. Use the archives here for reviews for certain albums, they have helped me in albums/genres that I wanted to explore very greatly.

For black metal and it's influences, I'd suggest the obvious; Venom, Bathory, Mercyful Fate, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer and then work your way up to the Norwegian stuff (like Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Darkthrone)and branch out through them since most of all of these bands influenced everything else after. There are all the wannabees too, but most of the bands (like any genre) have their good offsprings.
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DenialFiend
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:15 pm
Posts: 892
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:39 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Motor phallus action ... six six six ways to die!!!! Latex cult for life! I don't love any Impaled Nazarene album but that one though, for some reason .. just makes me crazy every time. "SUomi Finland Perkele" is good stuff as well. Nothing wrong with short black metal songs....black metal was originally intended to be violent, primitive and evil.


Hell, just take a look the song list. These mongols only survive because they act different from what is meant to be blackmetal.
Out of the thread NOW!

I remember one interview with Luttinen:
Q:"If you were able to have a pet right now, what will it be?
A:"A goat of course. We were going to have great time together"

And that was before everybody knows about the gay nature of Gaahl. Hell, image it :puke:.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10261
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:50 pm 
 

DenialFiend wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
Motor phallus action ... six six six ways to die!!!! Latex cult for life! I don't love any Impaled Nazarene album but that one though, for some reason .. just makes me crazy every time. "SUomi Finland Perkele" is good stuff as well. Nothing wrong with short black metal songs....black metal was originally intended to be violent, primitive and evil.


Hell, just take a look the song list. These mongols only survive because they act different from what is meant to be blackmetal.
Out of the thread NOW!

I remember one interview with Luttinen:
Q:"If you were able to have a pet right now, what will it be?
A:"A goat of course. We were going to have great time together"

And that was before everybody knows about the gay nature of Gaahl. Hell, image it :puke:.


I think it's great.. What's the problem?
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DerekBuhr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:45 pm
Posts: 151
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:13 pm 
 

From Gorgoroth themselves. Think it's the second or first episode, though the whole thing is pretty decent too.

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=3009727001
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XSpidercideX
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:43 pm
Posts: 140
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:41 pm 
 

Basically if it sounds grim, dark, and cold. If the singing is raw, screeched, or throaty. If the guitars sound thin, and the music is more droning and atmospheric than brutal or complex, its usually black metal.

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Reign_of_Praine
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:09 am
Posts: 497
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:51 pm 
 

Black metal is hate, sorrow and pain.

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Reign_of_Praine
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:09 am
Posts: 497
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:00 pm 
 

Black metal:

It builds you up, it tears you apart
It pleases your ears, yet sickens your heart
It fills you with anger, it fills you with hate
It peirces the light and casts a shadow
It's beautiful on the inside, yet ugly on the outside
Black metal... an art of emotion

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Kruel
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm
Posts: 3426
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:20 pm 
 

Negru_Voda wrote:
Quote:
Black Metal, Define it


Boring, lame, pretentious, overrated.

He said DEFINE, not describe.

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Lich_King
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:18 pm
Posts: 176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:28 pm 
 

Black metal sucks.

Someone should write a really awesome song about that.

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KingVold
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 1082
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:11 pm 
 

Black metal: A form of extreme metal utilizing Hevay Distortion, many high-pitched notes, tremolo-picking, Blast-beats, and double-kick drumming. Typically, tempo's are fast.
Black metal is all about atmosphere. Blakc metal abnds often wear corpsepaint, have satanic or antireligious lyrics, and have extremely bad production ina an attempt to stay true tot he genre's roots. This atmosphere is referred to as "kvlt" a form of the word cult.

Good enough?
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:44 pm 
 

Negru_Voda wrote:
Quote:
Black Metal, Define it


Boring, lame, pretentious, overrated.


You suck.

Lich_King wrote:
Black metal sucks.

Someone should write a really awesome song about that.


You suck.

DenialFiend wrote:
Hell, just take a look the song list. These mongols only survive because they act different from what is meant to be blackmetal.
Out of the thread NOW!

I remember one interview with Luttinen:
Q:"If you were able to have a pet right now, what will it be?
A:"A goat of course. We were going to have great time together"

And that was before everybody knows about the gay nature of Gaahl. Hell, image it :puke:.


And so do you. Impaled Nazarene is awesome.
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Kruel
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm
Posts: 3426
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:48 pm 
 

KingVold wrote:
Black metal: A form of extreme metal utilizing Hevay Distortion, many high-pitched notes, tremolo-picking, Blast-beats, and double-kick drumming. Typically, tempo's are fast.
Black metal is all about atmosphere. Blakc metal abnds often wear corpsepaint, have satanic or antireligious lyrics, and have extremely bad production ina an attempt to stay true tot he genre's roots. This atmosphere is referred to as "kvlt" a form of the word cult.

Good enough?

No.

All the other issues aside, what the fuck is a "kvlt" atmosphere?

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Woolie_Wool
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 1676
Location: Far beyond the prophecy of tyrant guardians
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:20 pm 
 

With all the controversy about "unblack" metal, how about making Christian black metal by portraying God in brutal, baby-killing Old Testament mode and have every song about how awesome it is when God kills people? If black metal is evil, it follows that Christian black metal should portray God as evil, right? You could have song titles like "Thy Flesh Consumed" (an actual Bible reference), "Burning in Hell", "Kill the Firstborn", "The Great Whore", "Gathering of the Flesh Eaters" (Holy Communion), and "There She Lusted After her Lovers, Whose Genitals were Like Donkeys, and Whose Emissions were Like Horses" (another actual Bible reference).

And of course, you could have some suitably violent Bible quotes as spoken word passages:

The Bible wrote:
Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.


Of course, this would probably be even more offensive to the average Christian than normal black metal, but at least it fits the genre. God sending bears to rip little kids to pieces? METAL.

The album cover would be black on white (instead of white on black) with God scowling and giving you the finger. (Possible album title: God Hates YOU!)
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twophoton
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:25 pm
Posts: 292
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:47 am 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
With all the controversy about "unblack" metal, how about making Christian black metal by portraying God in brutal, baby-killing Old Testament mode and have every song about how awesome it is when God kills people? If black metal is evil, it follows that Christian black metal should portray God as evil, right? You could have song titles like "Thy Flesh Consumed" (an actual Bible reference), "Burning in Hell", "Kill the Firstborn", "The Great Whore", "Gathering of the Flesh Eaters" (Holy Communion), and "There She Lusted After her Lovers, Whose Genitals were Like Donkeys, and Whose Emissions were Like Horses" (another actual Bible reference).



Wouldn't that be more like Jewish black metal, since it's Old Testament? And Christian black metal would be more like songs about Jesus killing babies and lambs and setting huts on fire. Or something like that. Did Jesus ever do shit like that? I mean, I know plenty of folks have killed in His name, but I don't recall Jesus being so evil himself.




{I have a big grin that you can't see right now.}
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