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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6514
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:06 pm 
 

Chuck is the one of the biggest cases of dead-fellas-wot-are-overrated, within the metal community at least, but then again I never liked the technical dm stuff much. Later Death is all tiddly bop whizz whizz ting ting ting. It's not so much the guitar playing that bothers me, although we know those guys could play... so why not calm it down a bit and focus on something less vapid than technicality for the sake of it?

Personally - regardless of riff and musical preferences - I think Dimebag was a more expressive lead guitar player. But I do like Scream Bloody Gore more than anything Pantera put out. Not a massive fan of either though. I think they both led to better bands, Death had Autopsy and Pantera had Down.
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trueMunchies
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:08 pm 
 

I like Cowboys From Hell a lot, Power Metal is also good.
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Symbolic12
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 80
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:27 pm 
 

Nochielo wrote:
As many have mentioned, people like Dimebag because they suffer of Cobain-itis (meaning he's dead). Pantera was a good band, they manage to kill some time. But Dimebag really was an Ok guitarist. He played catchy riffs, but most of his solos lasted 5 seconds! Besides he wasn't very fast (we have all heard shitloads of guitarist that are a lot faster than him). And please: don't even mention Chuck without bowing and yelling "We miss you Chuck!!" afterwards. We loved him before he died, because we knew he was the best before he died, so we are not carriers of Cobain-itis.


No we're carrers of the true metal flag! Hail and kill! IRON MAIDEN \m/

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steady666
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:21 am
Posts: 407
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:55 pm 
 

Primemattimus wrote:
And also, Pantera did especially well for being a one guitarist band.


This is a very weak statement. There are a plethora of bands that have one guitarist, many of them are a lot better than Pantera.
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5192
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:08 am 
 

Diamhea wrote:
Nochielo wrote:
As many have mentioned, people like Dimebag because they suffer of Cobain-itis (meaning he's dead). Pantera was a good band, they manage to kill some time. But Dimebag really was an Ok guitarist. He played catchy riffs, but most of his solos lasted 5 seconds! Besides he wasn't very fast (we have all heard shitloads of guitarist that are a lot faster than him). And please: don't even mention Chuck without bowing and yelling "We miss you Chuck!!" afterwards. We loved him before he died, because we knew he was the best before he died, so we are not carriers of Cobain-itis.


True to a degree, Cobain-itis indeed.


Except the way a lot of us Chuck tossers feel/felt the same way many of the Dime tossers feel/felt. To say Dimebag is only revered because he's dead is fucking ignorant and is just an easy way to carry on disliking somebody you disliked before. I thought Dime was a fantastic guitarist back when I sucked at music, and even today, even though I rarely ever listen to Pantera anymore, I still think he was good at what he did. A lot of his riffs were extremely simple and boring but I still love the solos he pulled out for Cemetery Gates and the like. I love Death, much more than Pantera, but people saying that Chuck wasn't popular before he died/is only considered great because he died are just as stupid as those saying the same about Dime. Of course I'm generalizing and of course I'm making blanket statements that obviously don't apply to everybody, but I'm seeing a lot of hypocrisy at times.
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warzarmz
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:28 am
Posts: 188
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:12 am 
 

From what i've seen, its not that people praise them because they are dead, its that more people praise them now because they are dead.
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5192
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:15 am 
 

warzarmz wrote:
From what i've seen, its not that people praise them because they are dead, its that more people praise them now because they are dead.


This is probably true.

I've also thought on the other side of the argument, and I've decided that I would be up in arms if Matt Heafy just died and everybody started hailing him as one of the best guitarists of the times and could have brought metal back to it's roots if he lived et cetera ad nauseam. Therefore, thanks to my quest for complete objectivity, I unleashed my inner hypocrite, and will now not comment any further on the subject.
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Hircine
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 934
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:07 am 
 

I can only listen to one Panterta song a day, otherwise they give me a headache.
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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:25 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
Diamhea wrote:
Nochielo wrote:
As many have mentioned, people like Dimebag because they suffer of Cobain-itis (meaning he's dead). Pantera was a good band, they manage to kill some time. But Dimebag really was an Ok guitarist. He played catchy riffs, but most of his solos lasted 5 seconds! Besides he wasn't very fast (we have all heard shitloads of guitarist that are a lot faster than him). And please: don't even mention Chuck without bowing and yelling "We miss you Chuck!!" afterwards. We loved him before he died, because we knew he was the best before he died, so we are not carriers of Cobain-itis.


True to a degree, Cobain-itis indeed.


Except the way a lot of us Chuck tossers feel/felt the same way many of the Dime tossers feel/felt. To say Dimebag is only revered because he's dead is fucking ignorant and is just an easy way to carry on disliking somebody you disliked before. I thought Dime was a fantastic guitarist back when I sucked at music, and even today, even though I rarely ever listen to Pantera anymore, I still think he was good at what he did. A lot of his riffs were extremely simple and boring but I still love the solos he pulled out for Cemetery Gates and the like. I love Death, much more than Pantera, but people saying that Chuck wasn't popular before he died/is only considered great because he died are just as stupid as those saying the same about Dime. Of course I'm generalizing and of course I'm making blanket statements that obviously don't apply to everybody, but I'm seeing a lot of hypocrisy at times.


Easy there, man. Many of us think Dimebag was an enjoyable guitarist. But my point is that when he died, his popularity skyrocketed, despite the fact that Pantera was very popular, and suddenly, he was an icon, famous even outside metal circles. He is not famous now because he's dead, he's famous because he was a good guitar player that died as a "martyr". Chuck was not popular before his death and he isn't now, except with us, true metalheads, but we already knew of his skill before his passing. I mean, I don't praise him now any more or any less than the time he was still alive, which makes a large contrast with Dimebag's case.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1562
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:36 am 
 

Nochielo wrote:

I mean, I don't praise [Chuck] now any more or any less than the time he was still alive, which makes a large contrast with Dimebag's case.


Hit the nail right on the head there.
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rathofgod
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 228
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:53 am 
 

Yeah, Dimebag was a good guitarist, but he wasn't awesome and he certainly doesn't deserve all of the attention he gets.

Basically, Dimebag's guitars>>Dimebag's guitar skills.
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thejestersgate
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:52 am
Posts: 230
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:04 am 
 

Pantera's good. They sold out arena's. I haven't, so I can't talk shit about them sucking. They've sold shit ton's of records and made shit ton's of money. I haven't, therfore an even better reason for me not to be a shit talker. All of the "Pantera sucks" crowd probally resides in or near the same boat as me. You get my point. There are alot of bands that I like better than pantera and alot of bands I can't stand a hell of alot more than pantera. The riffs are good, the solos are good. A few of them are great. I don't care for the dean or washburn "dime" guitars, they feel like toys to me. The dime bucker and bill larwence pick ups are good, but there are better out there. Phil sucks ass, never could stand him as a person but he's a hell of a singer. The rest of the band are good people, met Vinnie Paul last christmas season in Dallas at a Destroyer show. Good times. So I hope I covered my opinion of pantera. People in my city love pantera, there's even a dimebag tribute show, my girlfriends band is playing in http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... ID=8667548
check it out. It's funny how many fanatics live around here, but overall there a good band. Awesome live with good material!

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4805
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:10 am 
 

Britney Spears is good. She sold out arenas. I haven't, so I can't talk shit about her sucking. She's sold shit tonnes (because I'm a metric motherfucker, motherfucker) of records and made shit tonnes of money. I haven't, therefore an even better reason for me not to be a shit talker.

See my point?

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thejestersgate
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:52 am
Posts: 230
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:46 am 
 

I see your point. But pantera are musicians where Brittney Spears is not. They have nothing in common exept what you mentioned.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1562
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:53 am 
 

thejestersgate wrote:
I see your point. But pantera are musicians where Brittney Spears is not. They have nothing in common exept what you mentioned.


Even then, the logic of your argument is weak.
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thejestersgate
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:52 am
Posts: 230
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:06 pm 
 

All I was saying is that they were a financially sucessfull band. I would love to play guitar for my day job. How bout you?

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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6341
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:23 pm 
 

The point is, Pantera ganked Exhorders' sound. They are thieves of art, and as such their music holds no value.
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thejestersgate
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:52 am
Posts: 230
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:27 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
The point is, Pantera ganked Exhorders' sound. They are thieves of art, and as such their music holds no value.


Do you think it was a conscious effort? or were they just into similar music at similar times?

Some Kreator riffs sound alot like earlier released slayer riffs but they still get credit as pioneers of german thrash. No one discredits them.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1562
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:36 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
The point is, Pantera ganked Exhorders' sound. They are thieves of art, and as such their music holds no value.


Old and rather weak argument. Pantera may have gained influence from Exhorder, but if you listen to both bands closely you'll hear many differences. (Plus Exhorder are better).

All bands are thieves of art to a certain extent. Would you say the music of Violator and Evile hold no value?
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5192
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:26 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
The point is, Pantera ganked Exhorders' sound. They are thieves of art, and as such their music holds no value.


*facepalms face inside out*

Didn't Nocturnal Rites start off as a death metal band? Didn't Running Wild and Helloween drastically change over the years? You think they didn't hear bands they liked, and then changed due to drawing their influence? Seriously, stop crying about how Exhorder isn't popular and Pantera is.

I figure I should reiterate that I barely ever listen to Pantera anymore and would no longer list them if I was told to list off all the bands I enjoy listening to, but a lot of the flak they catch (especially that particular criticism) is fucking stupid.
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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6341
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:43 pm 
 

I don't believe influence comes in the form of a jagged transformation from Power Metal to Cowboys From Hell. That shit just doesn't happen. And besides, nobody at that time sounded like Exhorder (and a few years later, Pantera).
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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1562
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:49 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
I don't believe influence comes in the form of a jagged transformation from Power Metal to Cowboys From Hell. That shit just doesn't happen. And besides, nobody at that time sounded like Exhorder (and a few years later, Pantera).


Yes, that shit does happen, e.g. Darkthrone.

Nobody sounded like Exhorder? Exhorder were influenced by plenty of contemporaries.
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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6341
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:52 pm 
 

thejuicebitch wrote:
FasterDisaster wrote:
I don't believe influence comes in the form of a jagged transformation from Power Metal to Cowboys From Hell. That shit just doesn't happen. And besides, nobody at that time sounded like Exhorder (and a few years later, Pantera).


Yes, that shit does happen, e.g. Darkthrone.

Nobody sounded like Exhorder? Exhorder were influenced by plenty of contemporaries.


Well, all bands are influenced by somebody. That's incredibly vague. Like I said before, nobody sounded like Exhorder. There certainly might be bits of other bands and sounds in there, but Exhorder, as a whole, sounded like NOBODY else. This wasn't some fluke accident. Like I said, that shit just doesn't happen.
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