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Cynical
Lead Us into Temptation...

Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:16 am
Posts: 887
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:16 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
On topic: I hope Svest won't write any of those 10+ minutes long abominations of a song they did on "Urfaust" and instead kind of go back to their demo days.

...What?

"Urfaust" was fucking amazing, while "Death to Macrocosm" (which was really their only brush with short songs; the previous demo, "Scarification of Soul", was much more inline with Urfaust/the split album) was rather mediocre.

Also, the Fas/Opeth comparison is a fair one. Both bands use the same "bittersweet strum/agressive angry" bipolar approach so dearly loved by mallcore bands everywhere, and both bands write absolutely directionless uber-long songs with random riffs strung end-to-end until they hit the minimum length required to seem "intellectual" and "profound". Both bands are an obvious sham that no one with a triple-digit IQ should buy into.
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WinterBliss
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:55 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:33 am 
 

an LP and two separate MCDs for 1 song each? these songs better be like 10+ minutes otherwise sounds like a ripoff.
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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:16 am 
 

All this talk about properly understanding the music seems so weird when it's about a band that is so very obviously crude and simplistic in their methodology. A whole two pages of discussion simply because some obvious dimwits are gullible enough to be fooled by the band's phoney baloney theatrics.
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SepticTomb
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:56 pm
Posts: 515
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:21 am 
 

thejuicebitch wrote:
SepticTomb wrote:
Just skimmed through Sola Fide I and II and I couldn't find anything unique in the riffing on those songs. They're black metal riffs with some funny chord shapes and more notes. Melodically they do nothing new; atonality is not something that DsO invented.


Si Monumentum was a transitional album of sorts.

Listen to Kenose or their latest. Then you will know what I mean.


No, let's not play this game of 'gotta catch 'em call'. I've got Si Monumentum, I've got Crushing The Holy Trinity, I've heard stuff off Fas, and I only like Infernal Battles.
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Forbinator
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:27 am 
 

LokiGoddess wrote:
Forbinator wrote:
...a band like Watain, Funeral Mist or Behexen, bands which are virtually impossible to dislike if you like any black metal...


My existence contradicts this statement.

Besides, it's not virtually impossible to dislike those bands if you are into any black metal. Its quite possible, actually. Especially if you have any actual taste in metal.

Perhaps could do with a rephrase, although I covered myself with the word "virtually". I think it would be extremely difficult for a black metal fan to not find a single album from one of those three bands that he/she likes, although we do have thousands of people browsing these forums, so chances are someone like you will pop up. Of course liking all three bands could be a bit of a stretch for most.

I wonder what category Kruel falls into. If he enjoys an album or two from one of those bands, that must mean that he's separating the music from the ideology, and as I said before he probably feels that with the DsO album, the ideology is forced upon the listener to the extent that it can't be ignored and it prevents him from enjoying the music.
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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:30 am 
 

Leave "fun" music to skaters and ravers. Swedish black metal is just too damn cheerful to be properly enjoyed, Watain in particular.
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WinterBliss
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:55 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:43 am 
 

EntilZha wrote:
Leave "fun" music to skaters and ravers. Swedish black metal is just too damn cheerful to be properly enjoyed, Watain in particular.


Kinda boring too. Marduk, Watain, Dark Funeral-blasty blasty blasty. But there's good shit(beyond Bathory) like Nastrond and Lifelover, but i do find the Swedish scene to be a bit boring(of course i haven't heard every band there is).
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Forbinator
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:58 am 
 

Clockhand wrote:
Forbinator wrote:
I think that Kruel is saying that in that album, the ideology is so intrinsic to the music, and the religious element of the music is force-fed to the listener to the extent that it can't be ignored or separated from the music. You don't need to read the lyrics or hear hype to get the message of the music. .


Then he is flatly wrong. DsO may be my favorite band, and yet theistic satanism is a joke to me. (if that is even what they believe)

I love Deathspell Omega's music because it is expressive and theatrical. In this criteria, they exceed what almost all others in extreme metal have done, or are doing. That their personal philosophy *may* be a theistic, polytheistic, or non-theistic whatever is almost entirely irrelevant to the work itself, and the spirit of the art.

For example, say Deathspell Omega write an album in which they reconcile with uniquely human mortality, with death - as "life aware of itself". Does the fact that their answer to this problem of human existence differs from mine negate my experience? - That is, myself, a human individual, experiencing another as they and their personhood contemplate themselves, express profound, or even trivial emotions etc via art. Absolutely not! To me, music is the human spirit singing...

From memory Kruel's review conveys that the music is completely lacking in any spirit or quest for understanding because of the inoffensive, lacklustre, sheepish, conformist sounding guitar tone and riffing style. I agree with this to an extent. The whole thing sounds like a submission and an expression that individual spirit doesn't exist without a god. I think this is argued well in the review, and the reviewer has every right to say that he wants to hear spirit in music, but that it isn't there (or conveyed). I don't think it has anything to do with disagreeing with an ideology for reasons of logic.
Clockhand wrote:
Forbinator wrote:
From memory, Lana gave the album a zero because to her it's random, incoherent drivel just thrown together. I think saying that "he wants to be Mikael Akerfeldt" is a theatrical way of saying "he sounds similar to Mikael Akerfeldt", which is a reasonable thing to say, in the same way that Kruel isn't actually saying that DsO are Christians.


I was trying to place emphasis on the fact that Lana's only point of reference for music with alternating levels of intensity is Opeth. Her only point of reference in an articulated growl, colored by her opeth misstep, is Mikael Akerfeldt.

So, you could argue that her complaints were "reasonable", but they remain incredibly amateur and aesthetic. (However "snotty" that makes me, it's the truth)

Beyond this, lines like "they're doing the whole choatic thing" imply an extremely superficial experience with the music. They tell us that Lana thinks in simple generalizations.

Her cliche diatribe about technical ability superseding content is another example. Because she experienced this music so superficially, a high level of technicality becomes wank by default. She couldn't hear the content because she either wasn't listening for it, or it went over her head. The result is applying a cliche she likes to a band to which it does not apply.

... and so on.

I think you've done well to argue that this review doesn't discuss the album in the same depth as the reviews praising the album. This is probably a natural consequence of extreme dislike for an album, that actually listening to it repeatedly is torturous for some. It's not a realistic expectation for someone to listen to an album 20 times in the hope that they might start to like it. Even though the review hasn't reached the level of properly comprehending the music, Lana's experience of it is at least valid, and means that there must be other people with similar tastes who might be able to avoid that experience by reading the review. The review serves a good purpose in practice, ie. taking into account what black metal listeners want, but in theory it's a superficial review for reasons you've outlined.
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Forbinator
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:03 am 
 

WinterBliss wrote:
EntilZha wrote:
Leave "fun" music to skaters and ravers. Swedish black metal is just too damn cheerful to be properly enjoyed, Watain in particular.


Kinda boring too. Marduk, Watain, Dark Funeral-blasty blasty blasty. But there's good shit(beyond Bathory) like Nastrond and Lifelover, but i do find the Swedish scene to be a bit boring(of course i haven't heard every band there is).

Watain is not "blasty blasty" and should not be lumped with Marduk and Dark Funeral. I think anyone who likes Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas would surely enjoy Watain's Casus Luciferi on some level.

I don't quite get the "fun" comment either.
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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4687
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:29 am 
 

Cynical wrote:
Catachthonian wrote:
On topic: I hope Svest won't write any of those 10+ minutes long abominations of a song they did on "Urfaust" and instead kind of go back to their demo days.

...What?

"Urfaust" was fucking amazing, while "Death to Macrocosm" (which was really their only brush with short songs; the previous demo, "Scarification of Soul", was much more inline with Urfaust/the split album) was rather mediocre.

I really dislike "Urfaust", that's all I can say. It isn't beautiful and compelling in the same way the demos are. That's just my opinion, anyway.

Forbinator wrote:
This is probably a natural consequence of extreme dislike for an album, that actually listening to it repeatedly is torturous for some. It's not a realistic expectation for someone to listen to an album 20 times in the hope that they might start to like it. Even though the review hasn't reached the level of properly comprehending the music, Lana's experience of it is at least valid, and means that there must be other people with similar tastes who might be able to avoid that experience by reading the review. The review serves a good purpose in practice, ie. taking into account what black metal listeners want, but in theory it's a superficial review for reasons you've outlined.

This.

The point is, reviews such as Lana's may be superficial, but they actually serve a purpose, therefore they are valuable, no matter how much you disagree with it.

Clockhand wrote:
Obviously they believe that man, as such, can and should develop himself, should create and sing its heart through art, should strive for actualization etc

No. Simply no. You don't quite understand the ideology behind their music. A man is but a slave unto a god, and he shall live his life in servitude unto a god. And everything a man creates is valuable only when it is created in the name of a god. Everything is subject unto a god. Biblical devil is a god in case with DsO. Just take medieval Christianity, replace "God" with "Devil" and - voila! - you've got DsO's ideology.

Now, enough with this. If you wish to continue, let's do it via PM.
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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:48 am 
 

DsO's lyrics are frequently just the words of Christian philosophers or the Bible with the most Yahweh-loving phrases altered to give them a more Satanic feel. It's not quite as simple as "just replace 'God' with 'Devil,'" but that's the general idea. Personally, I think they're a bit lazier at it than Funeral Mist (who did the same thing at times), but then again I don't think the band is as serious about their art as Funeral Mist was.


And like Cynical, I feel the Opeth comparison is more than apt. The song structures are incredibly directionless and meandering (especially on Fas), and when they aren't meandering they are awash in amateur abrupt changes ("transition" doesn't seem to be a word in their vocabulary).


"First Prayer" remains the best thing they will ever do, probably. Well-constructed, no abrupt riff changes, too short to feel like it's meandering, and with an intention that's both obvious and subtle at the same time. The relatively child-like anti-Christian symbolism of a prayer played backwards is offset by the seriousness of the actual chant. I don't care how repetitive it would be, if they made an entire album based around that sound I'd like it a lot better than the forty minutes of incoherency that follows.
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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1565
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:06 am 
 

SepticTomb wrote:
thejuicebitch wrote:
SepticTomb wrote:
Just skimmed through Sola Fide I and II and I couldn't find anything unique in the riffing on those songs. They're black metal riffs with some funny chord shapes and more notes. Melodically they do nothing new; atonality is not something that DsO invented.


Si Monumentum was a transitional album of sorts.

Listen to Kenose or their latest. Then you will know what I mean.


No, let's not play this game of 'gotta catch 'em call'. I've got Si Monumentum, I've got Crushing The Holy Trinity, I've heard stuff off Fas, and I only like Infernal Battles.


What....game...?
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ciboire_de_merde
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 40
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:59 am 
 

Has anyone bought/heard this yet?

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DaBuddha
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:30 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:03 am 
 

If any US fans are interested, Anja Offensive is taking reservations of this split.
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Cynical
Lead Us into Temptation...

Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:16 am
Posts: 887
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:44 am 
 

Well, I'm disappointed. I knew the DSO half would suck, but I didn't think the S.V.E.S.T. half would be this lame. It sounds like Rush with more distortion.

I guess I'll stuck to Urfaust and the split with Inkisitor.
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DreadDundee
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:53 am
Posts: 23
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:27 am 
 

I've ordered the CD for the DSO part, and I received on the tenth of December. I put it in the CD player, and the only thing that came up to my mind after 20 minutes of this disturbing(not in a good way), annoying experience was: Disappointing. Maybe I was expecting too much, but I expected something would sooth as kind of a follow-up to their last full-length album. The band seemed to forget the necessity of structure in music, and its integrity as a BM band... maybe they're planning to release a mathcore album next time, because it would make a pretty solid mathcore album for being annoying and random. The song doesn't have any intensity, tension, or haunting atmosphere. Its just blast blast blast, and jazz drumming, and then blast blast blast over and over. This release is a complete abomination, and doesn't even come up to 'Fas'' knees. Avoid at any cost.

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carnalsadistprod
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 246
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:46 am 
 

DreadDundee wrote:
I've ordered the CD for the DSO part, and I received on the tenth of December. I put it in the CD player, and the only thing that came up to my mind after 20 minutes of this disturbing(not in a good way), annoying experience was: Disappointing. Maybe I was expecting too much, but I expected something would sooth as kind of a follow-up to their last full-length album. The band seemed to forget the necessity of structure in music, and its integrity as a BM band... maybe they're planning to release a mathcore album next time, because it would make a pretty solid mathcore album for being annoying and random. The song doesn't have any intensity, tension, or haunting atmosphere. Its just blast blast blast, and jazz drumming, and then blast blast blast over and over. This release is a complete abomination, and doesn't even come up to 'Fas'' knees. Avoid at any cost.


You guys want some GOOD Deathspell Omega-related material...check out Annthenath and Arphaxat. The projects Shaxul abandoned DsO for...highly superior in every way.
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Post_Human_Shadows
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:36 pm
Posts: 82
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:44 am 
 

Does anyone here actually like this split cd??? As in both sides by SVEST and Deathspell Omega?

----

Relevant to the discussion here in this thread, my "Si Monvmentvm Reqvires Circvmspice" comprehensive/critical review has now been accepted into the archives. I attempted to make it as organized, well-thought out, and readable as possible.

It addresses such things as: the diehard fanboys/gals's mistake in upholding SMRC as the "definitive, OMG! intelligent, perfect '3rd wave' high black metal art" [and saying nothing much else about it subsequently], the critics' equally misleading assertion that the music has nothing of worth to express, the album's holistic weakness due to needless tracks and overall bloated length, and last but not least, the absolute fucking silliness in thinking SMRC is a Christian metal album.

(I'm also writing well-reasoned reviews on Fas and the recent split track which will be finished at a future time and day).

While I don't support the fanboys' statements regarding the band (as I referenced above with the whole "perfect '3rd wave' high art" commentary on DsO), I find some of the critiques relating to the band in this thread to be ridiculous. Particularily, the idea posted by some users that one has to have a low IQ or low critical thinking skills to enjoy the band is a hilarious, deeply unfounded overreaction.

Believe it or not, there are people out there with good music tastes and above-average mentality who actually enjoy DsO's later music (yes, even Fas).

I remember two years ago when mornox was a staunch advocate of Deathspell Omega... his opinion on them obviously changed. I guess I've now taken up a similar position on the band to what his was a couple years back, though it does not come exclusively to the defense of the band, as seen in my recent SMRC review.

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Cynical
Lead Us into Temptation...

Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:16 am
Posts: 887
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:14 pm 
 

Despite being one of the "detractors", I largely agree with the review (I'd consider Hetoimasia one of the highlights myself, would rate the whole thing about 10 points lower, and would have to mention just how terribly done the section at the end of Jubilate Deo is).

It's not SMR,C that's utterly worthless- it's Diabolus Absconditus, Mass Grave Aesthetics, Kenose, and Fas. Their half of the split with S.V.E.S.T. has a great 7 or so minute song hiding within it somewhere- the first few minutes are great (basically, through the end of the slower part with the trilled lead riff), and the ending was fantastically done and fit the song perfectly; there are just too many fucking segues that go nowhere for the song to be effective. It's probably better than S.V.E.S.T.'s half of the split, which is surprising given S.V.E.S.T.'s previous works.
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DaBuddha
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:30 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:05 pm 
 

I like both sides of the split, though Svest's side is superior.
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satanic_neumann
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:57 pm 
 

I dont understand why fan of these bands could be disappointed. DSO stuff is much more melodic/non-chaotic than FAS, more in the vein of Diabolus Absconditus, maybe its from the same period? Who knows. SVEST sounds just like in Urfaust. Unique riffs with harsh sound, just perfect. For me, best release of this year.

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mornox
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:09 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:18 am 
 

Post_Human_Shadows wrote:
Does anyone here actually like this split cd??? As in both sides by SVEST and Deathspell Omega?

----

Relevant to the discussion here in this thread, my "Si Monvmentvm Reqvires Circvmspice" comprehensive/critical review has now been accepted into the archives. I attempted to make it as organized, well-thought out, and readable as possible.

It addresses such things as: the diehard fanboys/gals's mistake in upholding SMRC as the "definitive, OMG! intelligent, perfect '3rd wave' high black metal art" [and saying nothing much else about it subsequently], the critics' equally misleading assertion that the music has nothing of worth to express, the album's holistic weakness due to needless tracks and overall bloated length, and last but not least, the absolute fucking silliness in thinking SMRC is a Christian metal album.

(I'm also writing well-reasoned reviews on Fas and the recent split track which will be finished at a future time and day).

While I don't support the fanboys' statements regarding the band (as I referenced above with the whole "perfect '3rd wave' high art" commentary on DsO), I find some of the critiques relating to the band in this thread to be ridiculous. Particularily, the idea posted by some users that one has to have a low IQ or low critical thinking skills to enjoy the band is a hilarious, deeply unfounded overreaction.

Believe it or not, there are people out there with good music tastes and above-average mentality who actually enjoy DsO's later music (yes, even Fas).

I remember two years ago when mornox was a staunch advocate of Deathspell Omega... his opinion on them obviously changed. I guess I've now taken up a similar position on the band to what his was a couple years back, though it does not come exclusively to the defense of the band, as seen in my recent SMRC review.


Like Cynical, it's not SMRC I really dislike. While I stopped seeing it as the big statement in bm I once saw it as, I still consider it a relatively good, yet flawed album. Like I said earlier in the thread, SMRC shares some of the same flaws as early Satyricon, the flow and composition aren't all they're cracked up to be, though I do find the tryptich structure interesting (though that was done before on Elend's "The Umbersun", but I digress).

If you go through my posting history there'll be a paucity of remarks on Kenose and Diabolus Absconditus, which are the releases they started to really lose me. I don't intensely dislike them, but I don't find them remarkable enough to discuss in any way; what worsened in respect to SMRC was the mess of technicality, and what largely vanished were the interesting riffs. They're not terrible, but pretty mediocre and characterless, though Diabolous Absconditus has some cool segments.

Fas I pretty much hated from the start though and I've been relatively vocal about it, even going as far as giving it my worst album of the year spot over on DC. This album actually retroactively worsened my opinion on their back catalog, since every compostitional snafu on Fas was already in evidence in embryonic form on SMRC. When I then read their interviews from the same time-period where they literally stated their religious vision of satanism they lost me for good. I normally don't care that much for ideologies, but when they inject theism into an album that's already on very shaky ground music-wise, what little value it still has left pretty much evaporates.
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boiler_kim
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:59 am 
 

Lyrics or ideologies aside , I don't give a fuck about old and new DsO , I listened to the both eras and concluded that this band is nothing special , Hirilorn were much more interesting than the old stuff and the orthodox releases sound very improvised and in serious need of some polishing and editing ( especially Fas & kenose ) Mikko's vocals are another weakness , they sound like they were recorded directly without rehearsal.
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vashts80
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:05 pm 
 

I enjoy both sides of the split greatly.

The music definitely doesn't seem as atonal and chaotic as Fas was, which is always a good sign. Music that's technical, chaotic, and dissonant just for the sake of being those three things always irritated me.

The lyrics are possibly the best they've ever written, and the vocals are also possibly the best they've ever had. To me it seemed like the vocals on this track were structured a lot more than they were on Fas. It seems like they actually had a reason for being rasped out at a specific part, rather than just seeming like a vocal track thrown on-top of an already mixed-down set of tracks. (like a good piece of SMRC, most of Kenosa, and the entirety of Fas' vocals were.)

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DreadDundee
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:53 am
Posts: 23
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:25 pm 
 

Eh, they sound like they're throwing in random SAT words in their lyrics just to sound intelligent or something.. it sounds like they're trying much too hard to sound smart.
Well, this is just an impression I've got about them.

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