What is the most accurate definition of this black metal subgenre? I have not been able to find information about this, and not sure about what it is, exactly. I heart Deathspell Omega is an orthodox black metal band, so I guess It basically has "theistic" satanic lyrics, but I want to be sure. What are other bands considered to be this?

Theistic, spiritualistic, occultism... All with a satanical approach, that's the themetical approach of "Orthodox" black metal.
When it come to style musically, it's mostly traditional classic black metal with a few new spices which don't fuck the music up to some black metal hybrid.

It's a misnomer because the bands that term is ascribed to have nothing to do with black metal at all. Just a bunch of posers who need to be locked up in a church (along with their worthless fans) before it's set on fire.

THE band?

Someone needs to do their research before they make such a statement...unless by THE band you meant all the bands...but then that wouldn't make sense either.

Sorry, typo. Was supposed to be "bands".

Nothing? Nothing to do with Black Metal at all? How's so? Care to elaborate? And what makes the fans who likes "the bands" worthless?
Just curious.

The way I see it Orthodox Black Metal is ''normal'' black metal, pure and unaltered. While it may apply to newer bands which copy the older bands' material, a good example of an Orthodox Black Metal band, from an objective standpoint, would be Gorgoroth. They're the archetype of black metal, especially on the first three albums.

"Orthodox" black metal refers to bands who take Satanism seriously and treat the devil as an actual deity to be revered and worshipped. Musically, they can be as diverse as black metal has always been.

The absurd thing is that this kind of Satanism is garbage, because its foundation is the medieval, Christian concept of the devil. It necessitates the existence and power of the Christian deity which essentially makes it an offshoot of Christianity, a religion which itself is mostly phony.

This discussion has already been done a few times, by the way.


Um...well...uh...

No.

We're talking serious worship of Satan. I can't account for the majority of band members, but Gaahl is not an orthodox Satanist.

tell me the point
of satanic metal
or being satanic in the first place

you can be brootal without worshiping the devil

< <

noobs

If you came here to troll for god, go away. Your post has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Well he does raise the point of 'why must black metal be seen as satanic?' but as he comes from a christian view point, it seems rather hyocritical.

Exactly. It would've been to the point if he somehow brought the two points together or something with a lot of explanation..but his post = troll in the way he put it.

Haha.

and therefore should his posts (christianmetalsite) be ignored ...

Cruciphage has pointed out the issue very well.

no

all im saying is that making a black metal band satanic does not make it more brootal

but some people think it is cuz they think the pentegram and inverted crosses are cool and whatnot

i like this definition

Orlok disapproves of this thread (which was done to death several times, by the way).

Bands like Deathspell Omega almost remind me of Roman Catholicism with the cross turned upside down.

That would still be Roman Catholicism, the inverted cross is the cross of St. Paul or St. Peter, I cant remember which.

The latter.

It's an occult/philosophical approach, not a devil-whorshipping madman's. People just assume they are christian devil-worshippers because some posers keep telling them they are real satanists.

First of all, fuck Gaahl because Gaahl has nothing to do with the classic Gorgoroth which I'm taking about. It's all about Infernus, he founded the band, he's the main songwriter and he's their brain behind the ideology, which is without a shred of a doubt about Satanism and nothing else (according to him).

Infernus is most likely not a theistic Satanist.

Well he called himself a Satanist and claimed that Gorgoroth was founded as a way to propagate Satanism, although I'm not sure of his beliefs beyond that, if he takes it seriously or not. Either way it doesn't really matter since he makes quality music, goofball ideology or not.

"Satanism" doesn't necessarily refer to its theistic version.

How would you know that?

Infernus has a brain.

I certainly hope that he isn't, as I love his music, but does anyone have some evidence either way.

Actually, interviews I've just been reading suggest that he is theistic (though I wouldn't say it's conclusive). But droneriot actually talked to him, so...

This is what you said:

While you did favor the original work, you were still talking about Gorgoroth on the whole.

There's a sizeable difference between someone who writes songs about Satanism and someone who is actually a Satanist. The term "orthodox black metal" was created in reference to newer bands with members who claim to be serious about practicing devil worship.


I seem to have missed the part where I said something about madmen. Please point me to it. Acknowledging and worshipping the Christian boogeyman is, however, a pretty bizarre way to bring down Christianity.

You're right about the occult and philosophical thing, though. I hesitate to use the term "gnostic," but the lyrics and symbolism of the orthodox bands are on a much higher level than those of, for example, Dark Funeral.

You'll have to clarify your second sentence. Do posers keep telling the bands that the bands are real Satanists? Or do the posers keep telling the bands that the posers are real Satanists? Or is it the people who the posers are talking to?

Well, this here is quite a common misconception (at least when it comes to the more prominent bands in this "sub-genre"). For one, the devil they worship is not based solely on the Christian boogeyman. Rather, it represents the antagonist of the "good gods" ("good" here being a relative term ) in various religions (there seems to be numerous references in the lyrics of such bands), most prominently jewish (the kabbalah, more often than not) and gnosticism. And that leads us to the second point. I highly doubt their "primary goal" is to bring down Christianity (quite the contrary, I don't think they really care about those sheep ) but, more among the lines of gnosticims, to enlighten the individual, to help him discover "the truth" trough whatever means necessary. Or something like that...

I'm not really into this kind of stuff. This are just some thoughts I "picked up" on my endless journeys through the internets (from people more knowledgable on the subjet than I am ). At the very least it doesn't soud as stupid and hypocritical as ignorant people make it out to be.

All I'm saying is keep this thread on topic. No one talked about this style of metal being "brutal" or making claims even close to the sort. If you can't usefully contribute to the thread, don't post.

So, is it means Orthodox Satanism and Theistic Satanism is similar which is a "real" Satan worshiper?

Errr... why is that hypocritical?
Black Metal is seen as satanic becasue is is satanic, or at least pretends to be. I know not specifically EVERY Black Metal band is psuedosatanic (Or really satanic? Not many of those) but the vast majority of them are.

So? If Einstein could believe in a god, infernus can beleive in Satan.

Besides, doesnt most BM have Theistic Satanic lyrics? I havent heard any traditional satanistic lyrics (Except Belphegor...). its all ordinary "Hail Satan, Enemy of God, Blasphemy!" crap. No "Hail Satan, Flesh Incarnate" crap.

The reason Judas Iscariot is one of my Top Five black metal bands of choice is because of how orthodoxical their material is. The grassroots sound of their brand of bm is very stark and conservative within the genres own parameters. I like structure as it applies to rigidity and conforming to what good old second wave was all about from 1987-1995.

JUST BECAUSE A BAND WORSHIPS SATAN DOESN'T MAKE THEM ORTHODOX!

The thing is, Einstein wasn't theistic.

And Infernus is no Jew.