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STORMM
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:27 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:00 am 
 

Have been listening to death metal for a long time, one album I keep going back to and never get sick off is "The Key". To me it was a legendry release when it first came out maybe a-way ahead of its time, but the atmosphere the whole album creates is fantastic. The occult, sc-fi - horror influence,cover,lyrical theme (part story of an android going back in time to destroy the manger),all make this an excellent package. The song writing/playing is just fantastic,one of the first bands, prob the first death metal band to have a full time keyboard player and the music has aged very well since it's release. Personally to me this is the finest death metal album released (yes I do listen to Death,Asphyx,Morbid Angel,Nile etc). What is your view on this album, nearly 20 years from its release, is it a forgotten classic, over rated or would it be considered in your top 10 death metal albums of all time?

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MushroomStamp
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:11 am 
 

It displays some wank tendencies (which got worse as the band's career "progressed"), but otherwise it's a fine album. The first synth squeal on "Lake of Fire" is just classic. Martians are attacking! Take cover!
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moka
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:18 am
Posts: 555
Location: Afghanistan
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:14 am 
 

thresholds is better

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 798
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:37 am 
 

I like it, especially the second half. The lyrics are mostly terrible though, and I don't listen to it as often as maybe I should. It's probably in my top 40 for dm but not top 10 material.

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Expedience
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:43 am 
 

STORMM wrote:
The occult, sc-fi - horror influence,cover,lyrical theme (part story of an android going back in time to destroy the manger)


This intrigues me. Does the android succeed? Is god pissed off when he finds out the android tried to destroy Jesus?

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the16th6toothson
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:32 am 
 

moka wrote:
thresholds is better


not even close. apples 'n oranges
i LOVE some of the songs on Thresholds but the actual song writing isn't nearly as strong or as timeless.


i wouldn't put this album in top 20, but its still WAY up there, it aged phenomenally, it carries its own unique atmosphere, it's rather intense. the production is clear but not overproduced, the vocals are CRAZED, if there are any flaws it's that some of the intros run a little too long.
played this the other day and, it's just as relevant today as it was INSANE then.

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Uncolored
Death Metal Fundamentalist

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:19 am
Posts: 755
Location: Cagliari/Italy
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:00 am 
 

I love the key
pity that the best song, undead journey, isn't in the vinyl :(
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serpent_moves
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:17 am
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:21 am 
 

overrated
everyone is saying it's a classic but nothing did hold my interest on it, imo Thresholds is much better

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STORMM
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 2900
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:21 am 
 

For some reason Undead Journey was only originally released as a bonus track for the cd only, dont know why as it is as good as any of the other tracks.

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Rippingheadache
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 603
Location: Vietnam
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:45 am 
 

I felt underwhelmed when I first heard of it too. I agree that the atmosphere is incredibly immersive, something like you'd hear in a vintage 80's sci-fi show. But the drumming was uninspiring and the riffs weren't really engaging.

If there's one old-school band that I'd reccomend to Nocturnus than that would be Crystal Age.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10261
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:31 am 
 

I like it. I don't think the intros are too long and the admittedly silly lyrics are pretty endearing. The wank tendencies do manifest at times, as the fungus says, but they're not so overbearing and irritating as they are on "Thresholds, which is an album that I really can't stand at all.. Mike Browning isn't a good drummer, nor is he a good vocalist, but he gets the job done well enough I suppose. The main thing about this album is the atmosphere. I also agree that the second half is a little better (except of course, "Lake of Fire" just destroys), and I love the hell out of those vintage Dr. Who-esque synthesisers and sound effects. There's one intro in particular, though I can't recall what track it's on, that I think is just fantastic.
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Uncolored
Death Metal Fundamentalist

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:19 am
Posts: 755
Location: Cagliari/Italy
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:59 am 
 

STORMM wrote:
For some reason Undead Journey was only originally released as a bonus track for the cd only, dont know why as it is as good as any of the other tracks.


the reason is that cd was still a new (and expensive) format, so labels put bonus tracks to increase sellings. almost all early earache or nuclear blast releases got exclusive bonus tracks
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STORMM
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:27 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:46 am 
 

the reason is that cd was still a new (and expensive) format, so labels put bonus tracks to increase sellings. almost all early earache or nuclear blast releases got exclusive bonus tracks[/quote]

True enough, I got the album when it first came out on cassette (still have it to), the cd version was alot more rare to find in the record stores at the time. I can remember asking the girl in the record store to put it on before I bought it, Lake Of Fire began to play and she said to me that it sounded like a fukin helicopter landing!, so I bought it anyway and the rest is history. Will have to look into Crystal Age they are new to me, also check out Starseed, there is a link to their debut (demo) in the download section, as the guy stated they are like the german nocturnus, excellent release from a very promising band but sadly they have broke up.

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the16th6toothson
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:17 pm 
 

to the people who prefer Thresholds over The Key i have a small theory, sorry if it's insulting but:


if you like The Key more : you appreciate bands who are ripe with charm, they might be unhinged, a little sloppy-maybe even reckless, but the passion is unmatched! you probably also heard it when it was new hahah...

if you like Thresholds: you want everything to be as "perfect" as possible-even if it means sacrificing identity and personality. You are young and grew up in a time where newer bands were already tight and proficient and essentially skipped the "raw, crazed, manic, enthusiastic and impulsive" debut album "trappings" that so many of the 80's and 90's bands had (in spades)


personally, i really don't get how someone would choose Thresholds over The Key, don't get me wrong i do LOVE songs like Aquatica. but i prefer songs over guitar lessons.


ps: Standing in Blood is WILD, put that song on guitar hero HAHAH!!!!

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Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:20 pm 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
The lyrics are mostly terrible though,
some guy I used to hang out in a biker bar LOVED the lyrics to "Destroying the Manger" and would undoubtedly bring them up as he progressed into a drunken state, but the Mentors lyrics were his all-time fav - he's got to be 50 years old now

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peterott
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:34 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:06 pm 
 

the16th6toothson wrote:
to the people who prefer Thresholds over The Key i have a small theory, sorry if it's insulting but:


if you like The Key more : you appreciate bands who are ripe with charm, they might be unhinged, a little sloppy-maybe even reckless, but the passion is unmatched! you probably also heard it when it was new hahah...

if you like Thresholds: you want everything to be as "perfect" as possible-even if it means sacrificing identity and personality. You are young and grew up in a time where newer bands were already tight and proficient and essentially skipped the "raw, crazed, manic, enthusiastic and impulsive" debut album "trappings" that so many of the 80's and 90's bands had (in spades)



What about: Just a matter of personal musical taste and preference ?
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the16th6toothson
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:21 pm 
 

oh i'm not arguing that, just saying. the two are pretty different. i can understand why there would be a division.

another comment to be made is does ANYONE like Ethereal Tomb?
as drastically different as it is, i enjoy it's strange atmosphere. very hypnotic

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twophoton
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:25 pm
Posts: 292
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:41 pm 
 

the16th6toothson wrote:


if you like The Key more : you appreciate bands who are ripe with charm, they might be unhinged, a little sloppy-maybe even reckless, but the passion is unmatched! you probably also heard it when it was new hahah...



Didn't hear it when it was new, but other than that, pretty good description of myself.
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Thulsa_Doom
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 70
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:41 pm 
 

I think The Key is one of the finest albums to emerge from the Florida DM scene.

I only listened to Ethereal Tomb once and it didn't do much for me, except for the instrumental at the end. Maybe I should give it another listen.

Last month I saw After Death (Browning's current band) play a gig and it was mostly old songs from The Key mixed in with a couple of After Death songs and a couple of Morbid Angel songs (done in the Abominations of Desolation style). Killer set. My neck was sore for two days.

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the16th6toothson
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:59 pm 
 

Thulsa_Doom wrote:
I think The Key is one of the finest albums to emerge from the Florida DM scene.

I only listened to Ethereal Tomb once and it didn't do much for me, except for the instrumental at the end. Maybe I should give it another listen.



unfortunately, you have to distance yourself FAR from The Key or Thresholds to appreciate it

its, aside from being anything Nocturnus related;
a decent, hypnotic, atmospheric, cold and unearthly, layered piece of technical metal.

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invoked
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:37 pm 
 

The Key is awesome, but I think I prefer their self-titled EP. Haven't heard Thresholds yet, but I saw it for $3 on cassette at Rasputin's so maybe I'll pick it up :)
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10261
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:51 pm 
 

the16th6toothson wrote:
oh i'm not arguing that, just saying. the two are pretty different. i can understand why there would be a division.

another comment to be made is does ANYONE like Ethereal Tomb?
as drastically different as it is, i enjoy it's strange atmosphere. very hypnotic


I do! It basically doesn't sound like Nocturnus much, but I think it's better than "THresholds", which didn't have much atmosphere at all.
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Sinvocation
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:03 am
Posts: 291
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:37 pm 
 

Competent music, albeit really annoying and distracting production. It has a bizarre "sloppy playing, but tight feel" quality, that I don't find in much other metal, but it works very well (and in an original way) in the sci-fi-themed context. But I still think the really good tracks are too few-and-far-between, with only "Lake of Fire," "Neolithic" and "Andromeda Strain" standing out in my mind, and it suffers from sub-par consistency. Never could enjoy it as much as I wanted to, but I can understand its appeal to others.

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STORMM
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 2900
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:29 pm 
 

The dark sci-fi content was a first at the time that I can remember, this was also very appealing. If the movies Aliens/Stargate were metal, this would be their soundtrack, I think that would best sum up its atmosphere. Have ordered the After/Death release last week to check them out. The reformed Nocturnus are only known by this name in the likes of europe, due to legal issues with previous band members, Browning cannot go under the Nocturnus name in the states,thus will be touring there as After/Death (as far as I know).

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AstralCorpse
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:07 pm
Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:33 pm 
 

I'm really surprised at the somewhat mixed reviews for The Key, I thought it was universally considered a classic. As a fan of old school Death Metal, I don't really see what's not to like. Everything good about the Floridian scene is comprised within it, with outstanding use of keyboards as an added bonus. If there is anything wrong with the production, then that criticism applies to pretty much every album from the time period.

One of the best albums out of Florida and probably lands somewhere in the tail end of my top 25.

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Hockeymask
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 167
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:49 am 
 

This is one of those bands I always knew about but ignored for whatever reason until rather recently. In a way I'm glad I did because it's great to hear something this awesome like it was brand new to you. I listened to all of there stuff and find The Key to be the best. It's like the few keyboard sections on Altars of Madness for an entire album.

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mentalselfmutilation
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 1424
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:20 pm 
 

Very classic album. Among one of my favorite death metal albums. My girlfriend hates it though due to the keyboards on some of the songs.
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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:51 am 
 

I really enjoyed seeing the lost key returns tour last october.

They were awesome....

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Suechtler
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:41 pm
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:07 am 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
I really enjoyed seeing the lost key returns tour last october.

They were awesome....


The stuff they played off The Key and also the Morbid Angel songs were simply awesome, but the After Death songs which were spread across the set totally killed the atmosphere.

When they opened with Lake of Fire, I was like "Damn, that'll be one great show", but then after three or four Nocturnus songs they played that average After Death song, which annoyed the whole audience. All in all it was a good concert but it would habe been one of the greatest I've been to if they had just played the whole The Key album and the Morbid Angel stuff as an encore.

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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:42 am 
 

they didnt play after death at all here....

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Suechtler
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 2:41 pm
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:56 am 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
they didnt play after death at all here....


Where did you see them? In Vienna they played three After Death songs ...

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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:14 pm 
 

Hengelo in the netherlands.

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