I take a lot of interest in reading about different beliefs that some band members, or bands, believe in. Such as religion and politics. But I also find people who are apolitical and not religious sometimes more interesting because their beliefs don't really limit their music or their personal life..

What's your opinion of religion, politics and different philosophical views band members hold? Which ones do you most agree with? Which ones piss you off? Which ones do not belong in metal?

Discuss, please.

Does it matter? As long as they do their job in their band, why care why they believe in? Everyone believes different things, none are "more metal" than others, it's good that people believe different things, the more homogenous people are, the more boring life will be. That's my opinion at least. ^^

No, it doesn't particularly matter and I also said before that I respect and find people who don't share their beliefs just as interesting, if not, more in some cases...

But I thought it's an interesting area to discuss seeing as there's such a wide range of beliefs within the metal community.

I don't really care, so long as the music's good, but it's always cool to find out a favourite musician shares similar views with you.

The most "un-metal" thing as far as I am aware would be theism. Including theistic themes in music (particularly praising deities) is not what I consider to be anywhere close to metal's gamut of lyrical or thematic fodder. I consider science and literature to be far more metal than "praising the lord". Satanism, as it is also theistic, tends also to be lame.

I think this topic would be more suited to the regular metal forum than what is typical of Symposium stuff. As far as your question goes, I don't care what the band believes in so long as it is true to their music, it sounds good and they don't drag it into their songs too much where it starts to bring it down. If that's the case, they are a political band and the music suffers.

This is an honest answer.

Although it's true that it doesn't really matter what one's religious or political beliefs are when it comes to music, if you want a general consensus in the metal community about what is the better ideology, most will agree that they dislike the concept of Christian metal bands, or bands that try to promote world peace or something gay like that.

I've never seen a coherent argument from a metal band/artist regarding any philosophical topic that did not spiral at some point into comic book absurdity. Some of Glen Benton's ideas are pretty reasonable: a type of libertarian secularism regarding religious beliefs, but he also claims (pretends) to actually communicate with Satan, who is a metaphysical entity.

Yes because world peace is totaly gay, who would want that?

Why would the music suffer? Other than lyrically, as long as they are creative the music should remain good.

I don't really care what a band believes in unless they have interesting spiritual themes in their music (though no metal band comes to mind) or if their beliefs have a lot to do with their sound, like Agalloch.

Their views used to interest me back when there were fewer bands and stuff still seemed outrageous. But then, one ages and the bands age and become more moderate or at least more honest about the act they are putting up. But before they get more reasonable they hit some point were they just become ridiculous. That's when you know they weren't serious to begin with.

Haven't heard many political comments other than the typical mainstream view.
I agree that Christianity doesn't suit metal. I mean if they want to be fanatic anything, fine, but if they want to proselytize, that's another matter.
I'd also have a problem with nihilism-especially when it's not just talked about but carried out (e.g. Jon Nödtveidt). That's messed up. Not sure though how his sect/order combined nihilism with ancient mythologies.

I was unaware that he was interested in nihilism. Or did that play a part in his spirituality?

I find it inconsistent when a band member of any given metal band is a die hard republican. Libertarian?? NO. Fascist? Even though it may be weird saying, not really. The reasoning behind this is because of how much the Republican party in the US is primarily supported by ultra right wing Christians who would ban metal (especially satanic or pagan) in a heartbeat if given the chance.

Well wasn't the PMRC comprised of Democrats? Contrary to popular believe, it was about even 50/50, and back then Al Gore was known as a CONSERVATIVE democrat, even being pro-life at one point in the 1980's.

Now it pisses me off when a metal musician is also a democrat ass kisser, BUT not as much because of their non-association with the "Christian Right".


I should probably explain my also weird assertion that I find it consistent when a metal bands member is fascist. Well, its an extreme form of music, and though I think they're kinda loony if they are, its still better than the lame and mainstream status quo (at least in the Southern US) associations I have with Right Wing Christian Republicanism.

This is just how I feel, I don't get how Jon Schaffer can be a big time Republican and write song cycles with lyrical subject matter that are close to what Robert Anton Wilson was talking about in alot of his books. I dont get it- I don't get Jon Nodtveidt EITHER, but just kind of believe his beliefs go with the territory, if that makes any sense..

Personally, I listen to Metal for the music. I don't take particular interest in lyrics or am I all that interested in band themes, considering most Brutal/Technical Death Metal bands don't have much to offer on the subject.


Well, to be in literal opposition to the thread, it bothers me quite a bit when band members use their bands as a platform to express their views. For example, in this passed election I saw a few bands air their political views over Myspace, which I thought was pretty stupid, especially considering the medium. I've also seen bands live saying "Hey, vote for guy A, because guy B is a fucking cunt." and that's annoying. I paid to see the band play its fucking set, not to tell me who I should or shouldn't vote for.

yes, but one could argue that Metal Music, especially Thrash, has always had its place in the political pantheon.

Need I remind one of Megadeth's Peace Sells, Metallica's Justice For All, Sacred Reich's Surf Nicaragua, Anthrax's Indians, Kreator's many albums, fuck any mid eighties, influenced by hardcore punk or crossover thrash metal band has/had many political lyrics?

Napalm Death's entire discography (not thrash but my point made).

As far as voting for a particular candidate, yeah it can get annoying some of these "endorsements" but at the same time, I find that often times the musicians who complain about other musicians talking politics the most, are TALKING ABOUT POLITICS A HELL OF A LOT.

Alice Cooper and Dave Mustaine for example have complained about entertainers using their music as a platform, then THEY THEMSELVES will do interviews and songs doing the same thing- its kind of ridiculous.


I like Lemmy's attitude towards the stuff. He'll give his opinion when asked, but tries to go towards universal themes and doesn't trust ANY particular party or political leader.

Yeah. It is all about the music. But I must admit, I like bands a bit more when I find them to be politically/religiously similar to me.

I am really about the music, but as some have said, if the lyrics are about a subject matter that peaks my interests, I am sure to enjoy it more.

I can see your point. But, something that's kind of always seemed contradicting to me is I doubt that metal music or it's culture would be welcome in a fascist Government ruled country.

I think the Nazis would have loved folk/pagan metal, possibly black metal as a whole as well. Certainly Himmler and his cronies with their "aryan occultism" thing going on, it'd probably be seen as a tool of "aryan culture" or something. Now grindcore, that's another story...

With a bit of effort, you can force basically any ideology into metal easily enough. There's a bunch of christian stuff that works fairly well, and a bunch of extreme right wing and left wing stuff too. I guess you could say that as long as the band member's belief is expressed well enough within the context of hte music (if that's what the band is aiming for, and isn't going for fantasy/literature lyrics etc) then it doesn't bother me, although by the same token I won't really listen to a lot of satanic/anti christian stuff.

I hate all the satanists and christians. It is the same crap.
But usually I listed to music and dont care what are lyrics about or what are opinions of musicians, even if it is NS I dont care.

Nocturnal from the band Unhuman Disease is totally devoted to Satanism. It's like the sole inspiration he has to write, and the band is awesome.

I really don't care what the lyrics are about, or what influences the band, as long as they sound good.

For some reason I cannot stand Christian metal, oldschool doom metal being excused due to it being the imagery. I can take Satanic music just fine, because even though I consider theistic Satanism very retarded, I find the lyrics to be compelling in the same way a good fantasy or supernatural horror story is. This doesn't extend to Christianity for whatever reason. That, NS and retarded Barnes-era CC gore are the only things that put me off otherwise good music.

HAHA..

There's nothing wrong with their beliefs as long as the music is good. I can listen to pretty much anything from Antestor to Zyklon-B and everything in between.

From Christianity, paganism, bikes, avian supremacy, torture, satanism, NS, Horror, whatever..

Considering that Black Sabbath wrote more than a few "Christian" themed songs, I think it's very hypocritical to claim that Christian beleifs have no place in metal, while Satanism does.

There seems to be rules as far as what is "metal" enough - dress code, a thought code, a beliefe code. It's turning into the very conformity that metal was trying to get away from in the first place.

Relax, and don't take things so seriously.

It actually kind of bugs me that people complain about the lack of passion in modern metal in one thread and then make this thread and say that the band members' personal beliefs don't matter.

That's the attitude that encourages the passionless metal you people claim to hate!

When a band member believes something very strongly, they have a message, a motivating factor. That message may or may not translate literally to the music (ex: not really Satanists, but they want to speak against Christianity). What happens when you remove that message? They no longer have such a vested interest in the music they make. No passion. Thus, lifeless metal.

Example: Megadave had a lot to be pissed off about in the 80s. His beliefs and his experiences drove the anger in his music, and it yielded some great results. Now take Warbringer. Where's the passion in Warbringer? What do they have to be pissed off about?

So don't tell me band members' beliefs don't matter. Those beliefs are what separate the great music from the mediocre.

I'm just irritated by bands and fans that follow trends just to fit in (i.e. satanism).

Certain things have been done to death, and it's rather difficult to put passion in a dead horse.

Besides, I think the passion can come purely from the music anyway, and the lyrics don't always have to be pissed. (Doom metal, for instance)

I personally disagree with the category "Unblack Metal". I discovered it once on Wikipedia and was astounded. Black Metal was formed to push against religion and government more than the other bands around that time.

Unblack Metal, according to Wikipedia, is Anti-Black or Christian Black Metal. What the hell? Why would someone decide to take a musical form that is anti-Christianity and use Christian lyrical themes? They disgrace the genre, and should never have formed in the first place.

You should really check out the almighty Horde and the early stuff from Extol. Amazing "Unblack" Metal.

Me, I don't give two shits if the music is good.

Personally, it's a case-by-case thing. For example, Tyrant (US) has some overtly christian lyrics, but it doesn't detract from the experience, and it's still a kick-ass heavy fucking metal album.

While Christianity might be tolerable to an extent in more traditional forms of metal, I just can't stand any christian-themed extreme metal band. The disparity between Christianity and the spirit of black/death metal is just too great.

Another thing: I don't like political commentary in songs/albums. It just ruins the whole transcendental, otherworldly vibe of the music by mixing it up with petty 'mortal' affairs. ( there's exceptions though... RED SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARKS!)

I could really care less about what members beliefs are. Even if they spout off about NS like Absurd does or liberal anarchy like some grind bands do, I'll listen to it if the music is good.

I think some bands with christian beliefs pull it off well. dream theater never really push it on their listeners but do reference it in some of their songs (walk beside you, in the presence of enemies). I haven't read any of their lyrics but apparently Virgin Black are christians, and it fits the tone of their music very well. And even if they aren't on the archives Zao have still written some great heavy tunes with Christian lyrics, take Desire the End for example.

Hmm. Intersting. I suspect that many of us mean that their beliefs don't matter-- to us. I personally have never complained about lack of passion in metal-- granted that a lot of it bands just go through the motions at some and releases seem to fulfil the musicians needs for dru... I mean money. I find it actually neat that people talk here about passion and emotion when American society in general frowns on that.
Perhaps I find it hard to believe that all these guys are that passionate about Satan, necrophilia, anarchy, hating society, hating everybody, death, etc. When some 40 year old family man stands on stage telling society to eff itself or that he wants to rape a corpse throught he sphincter it's just funny.
I admit that I know nothing about the songwriting process, in particular writing lyrics. I would think that a lot just involves trial an error, messing around with your guitar and coming up with a neat riff or melody. I think we all have benefited from Hanneman's interest in Nationalsocialism and serial killers but not so much from King's interest in Satanism.
Plus I don't see all 3+ band members having the same interest. Like everything else, one guy will take the leadership and the rest will go along.

I can buy that. I just mean that from an aesthetic point of view, conservative Republicanism is so NON METAL that its just incongrous to what metal seems about. And hardcore fascism is about wearing black (black shirts, Mussollini), skulls (Deaths Head), the "old gods" (even if the Nazis used trappings of Catholicism to appeal to the masses, and many of them associated their Catholicism with anti-semitism) so its kind of fitting that metal can be associated with that type of hardcore fascism, at least on an aesthetic level. Maybe it wouldn't be practical for a metal band to be playing the style of music if the old school style of fascism would come back into play, but then again I dont know how many of the bands would stick with those beliefs if it did.

I still think Varg Vikernes had it right when he just abandoned metal altogether, because any type of rock has the blues (read African Americand derived) inspired influence, no matter how far removed it is- of course maybe he was just saying what he did about not playing metal/rock anymore because he was only allowed a synthesizer in prison, who knows?

As far as fascism goes though, I think most of the musicians who identify themselves would be running scared in a real fascist country, or THEY THEMSELVES would want to rule it, which of course would be very difficult if they spent half their time playing music and not doing military training. I don't think Samoth of Emperor really ever had any serious Nazi leanings, he was just young and the most rebellious thing you can identify with is having a swatsitka flag (especially in liberal europe).

Overall, if most metal musicians of many stripes had to really sit down and think about it, I would be willing to bet they would identify with libertarianism more than any other. I am more on the left than libertarianism myself, but just from studying the metal mindset and the way many fans, musicians, etc, think, I have come to that conclusion.

I have enjoyed Straight Edge or vegan hardcore punk and grindcore, and have enjoyed white power skinhead punk. I enjoy black metal bands that are racist. I have enjoyed Christian stuff. I am not edge, vegan, or racist, and I am CERTAINLY not Christian. It definitely helps if I identify with the lyrics, but it isn't a necessity.

For me, lyrics that oppose my beliefs or just plain bad lyrics tend to take away my enjoyment of the music. I always like to read the lyrics when I get a new album and I hate it when I'm reading and just thinking to myself "... What the fuck?!". Although, if the music is exceptionally good I can look past the lyrics.

I don't really pay attention to what band members or particular artist promote or believe in. If I enjoy the music then that's what matters to me. If the lyrics in a song go against what I believe or feel then I try to understand what stance the artist is taking and the point they are trying to reach.

For example, Glen Benton is very anti-religion and that is very clear in many of his songs with Deicide. I consider myself to be a Christian. I wasn't baptized, but I do believe in God and have accepted him into my life. Does this mean I can't listen to Deicide... no. I listen to Deicide and have several of their albums. Am I a good Christian... obviously not, but nobody is perfect. While I don't agree with what Glen is always saying I understand the message is trying to "preach" to the masses.