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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:32 pm 
 

This thought occured to me after an experience I had with a certain brutal death metal band which will go unnamed because i don't wanna stir any shit up with them.

It started at a party where a rather popular brutal death metal band were at and we were flipping through the channels and landed on headbangers ball. An Obituary video was playing and I was totally into it. This band says "that's not even death metal" and I just sat there trying not to laugh. Later that night I played some of my cds which included early Entombed and Grave and Nocturnus "The Key" and all of those were considered not death metal by this band.

Ok, the question is, is it possible that some of these new bands who just jumped on the bandwagon in the last few years are clueless on what death metal is all about? How can you say that Nocturnus, Grave, Entombed and Obituary are not death metal? Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on this of have encountered anything like this before.

Edit: It doesn't have to be death metal, I just used that example because of my experience.

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Sepulturafreak
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:22 pm
Posts: 245
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:40 pm 
 

Well they just sound like a bunch of stupid cunts.

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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4660
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:41 pm 
 

Rather like a bunch of retards.
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foz45139
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:48 pm
Posts: 448
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:49 pm 
 

I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore. I'm not really sure what the fuck they thought they were doing talking about grindcore anyway, but it seems that this might be common.
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:49 pm 
 

I agree they acted like retards, but how can they play death metal and not know what death metal is? That's just weird.

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dalecooper
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:50 pm 
 

Please PM me the name of this band so that I might avoid buying any of their almost certainly shitty albums.

Anyway, I would hope this kind of ignorance isn't widespread. Working in any art form with no sense of history of how it got to where it is - that's just a recipe for sucking.
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:53 pm 
 

dalecooper wrote:
Please PM me the name of this band so that I might avoid buying any of their almost certainly shitty albums.

Anyway, I would hope this kind of ignorance isn't widespread. Working in any art form with no sense of history of how it got to where it is - that's just a recipe for sucking.
Agreed.

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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 497
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:53 pm 
 

In an instant like that (regardless of music genre) I would start rattling off names and ask what bands fit the definition of said genre is. There are many people out there that are uneducated...and just because you are apart of a band doesn't necessarily make you knowledgable...there are lots of bands that are musically clueless. Shit, I've been in bands with people that once I started to get to know them were musically clueless too and I usually ended up not playing with them. I can't stand musically clueless people. If you say you are into a genre, research it and get a clue. I hold history high in regard to any genre. You can not like innovators of a genre, to each their own; but to not give props where props is due is something I have a problem with.

I call myself a rocker, not a metalhead and that's because I like many rock related genres, including metal. Now, people will argue that metal is not rock, etc; but at least I'm pretty well researched in what I like.

I once had an argument with a few band members from a band that had a record deal, one that you may have heard of; that had an issue with me wearing a Slayer shirt. We were all sitting around outside their practice space smoking weed and a few of them started on me saying Slayer were all negative and how could I be into that kind of metal music. This was back around 1990. I guess they thought that Slayer was some scary band that they didn't want to listen to. Meanwhile, this was a band that was a so-called metal band and one would think that it wouldn't bother them. :lol:
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Last edited by deathcorpse on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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_Aargh
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:11 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:54 pm 
 

foz45139 wrote:
I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore.

They said that about Napalm Death's "Scum" too.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:58 pm 
 

_Aargh wrote:
foz45139 wrote:
I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore.

They said that about Napalm Death's "Scum" too.
ahahaha

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Thulsa_Doom
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 70
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:59 pm 
 

Hasn't Kerry King annointed Slipknot as the "greatest band in modern Metal?" :puke:

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Manic616
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 692
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:01 pm 
 

Thulsa_Doom wrote:
Hasn't Kerry King annointed Slipknot as the "greatest band in modern Metal?" :puke:

Well with their latest offering of crap he said it was good till the vocals come in, so I doubt he would go that far.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:02 pm 
 

Thulsa_Doom wrote:
Hasn't Kerry King annointed Slipknot as the "greatest band in modern Metal?" :puke:
I think the Malevolent Creation guys dig Slipknot too.

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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:02 pm 
 

Death metal has been around long enough that those disagreements are somewhat generational. It all depends on what you grew up listening, what you listened at first when you identified a certain genre, or whether you changed your preferences in time. If one thinks that the latest is always the greatest, then today's death metal is death metal. For us who grew up with the old stuff, the newer material fails to impress.

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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8684
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:04 pm 
 

ahr888 wrote:
Death metal has been around long enough that those disagreements are somewhat generational. It all depends on what you grew up listening, what you listened at first when you identified a certain genre, or whether you changed your preferences in time. If one thinks that the latest is always the greatest, then today's death metal is death metal. For us who grew up with the old stuff, the newer material fails to impress.


That's not really true at all. I didn't grow up listening to Elvis, but am I going to say he didn't play rock 'n roll? Of course not.

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foz45139
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:48 pm
Posts: 448
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:05 pm 
 

_Aargh wrote:
foz45139 wrote:
I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore.

They said that about Napalm Death's "Scum" too.


:nono:

Fuck them.
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Manic616
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 692
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:05 pm 
 

The thing that annoys me about modern metal is that bands seem to treat the music mathmatically rather than as an art form. It saddens me to know that I didn't grow up in the early years of black/death metal.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:06 pm 
 

ahr888 wrote:
Death metal has been around long enough that those disagreements are somewhat generational. It all depends on what you grew up listening, what you listened at first when you identified a certain genre, or whether you changed your preferences in time. If one thinks that the latest is always the greatest, then today's death metal is death metal. For us who grew up with the old stuff, the newer material fails to impress.
The point is that some bands wil deny that old school death metal is even death metal because it isn't filled with burps and slam riffs. That's just pure ignorance. I don't like modern death metal, but I don't deny that it's death metal. It's just shitty death metal in my opinion.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:08 pm 
 

Manic616 wrote:
The thing that annoys me about modern metal is that bands seem to treat the music mathmatically rather than as an art form. It saddens me to know that I didn't grow up in the early years of black/death metal.
Yes, too many bands trying to play the fastest blasts and sickest tech riffs, and forgetting to write good music with feeling.

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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:10 pm 
 

_Aargh wrote:
foz45139 wrote:
I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore.

They said that about Napalm Death's "Scum" too.


I agree with them regarding Pig Destroyer, although saying that Napalm Death's "Scum" is not grind is the height of mental retardation, basically sub 30 IQ territory.
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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 497
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:15 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
ahr888 wrote:
Death metal has been around long enough that those disagreements are somewhat generational. It all depends on what you grew up listening, what you listened at first when you identified a certain genre, or whether you changed your preferences in time. If one thinks that the latest is always the greatest, then today's death metal is death metal. For us who grew up with the old stuff, the newer material fails to impress.


That's not really true at all. I didn't grow up listening to Elvis, but am I going to say he didn't play rock 'n roll? Of course not.


Although Elvis is so overly popular, it's possible that someone not educated about music might not draw that conclusion, i.e. someone ill informed. How about Eddie Cochran or Carl Perkins? Would someone who liked new rock bands (are there any out there?!) know about those innovators or where it came from? Is their definition of rock and roll from Elvis or is it from The Beatles or from Led Zeppelin, etc? Fact is, it's all rock and roll, but in this case; does death metal like Obituary not necessarily translate to some newer fans because it's too old school or perhaps considered not "brutal" enough?

Usually unfortunately that lack of knowledge is displayed by the ignorant and un-informed.
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206
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:16 pm 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
I agree with them regarding Pig Destroyer, although saying that Napalm Death's "Scum" is not grind is the height of mental retardation, basically sub 30 IQ territory.


Is this a troll post? Sure, Phantom Limb sucked ass, but to deny PxDx are a grind band because of it?

OT: are you sure said band members were not playing devil's advocate, or just being dicks for the hell of it?

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:18 pm 
 

206 wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
I agree with them regarding Pig Destroyer, although saying that Napalm Death's "Scum" is not grind is the height of mental retardation, basically sub 30 IQ territory.


Is this a troll post? Sure, Phantom Limb sucked ass, but to deny PxDx are a grind band because of it?

OT: are you sure said band members were not playing devil's advocate, or just being dicks for the hell of it?
They are very new to death metal and have not researched it at all. They just assume that if it doesn't sound like their band then it isn't death metal.

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LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
Posts: 447
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:19 pm 
 

_Aargh wrote:
foz45139 wrote:
I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore.

They said that about Napalm Death's "Scum" too.


Here's more info I just found:

Quote:
In issue #160 of Terrorizer magazine, Bring Me The Horizon was being interviewed, and were played the title track of Napalm Death's "Scum" during the Hard Of Hearing segment (where the band guesses the performers of the songs played for them by the interviewers). To quote what they said:

BMTH: "This isn't very good."

BMTH: "Is this Napalm Death? I don't really listen to this sort of thing."

Interviewer: "Are you a Grindcore fan?"

BMTH: "This isn't really Grindcore. Grindcore's changed a lot."


:|
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foz45139
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:48 pm
Posts: 448
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:20 pm 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
_Aargh wrote:
foz45139 wrote:
I think I recall an interview with Bring Me The Horizon that I stumbled upon, where they said that Pig Destroyer wasn't grindcore.

They said that about Napalm Death's "Scum" too.


I agree with them regarding Pig Destroyer, although saying that Napalm Death's "Scum" is not grind is the height of mental retardation, basically sub 30 IQ territory.


:| Well, I would say Pig Destroyer are grindcore.

Anyway, I think that if these new death metal bands actually took the time to listen to bands like Obituary and Entombed (which they clearly haven't), then they might pick up some ideas on how to play good death metal.
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:21 pm 
 

Saying Napalm death isn't grindcore is just plain hilarious.

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mentalselfmutilation
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 1424
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:23 pm 
 

ahr888 wrote:
Death metal has been around long enough that those disagreements are somewhat generational. It all depends on what you grew up listening, what you listened at first when you identified a certain genre, or whether you changed your preferences in time. If one thinks that the latest is always the greatest, then today's death metal is death metal. For us who grew up with the old stuff, the newer material fails to impress.


Or we can just acknowledge both as death metal, because both the modern "brutal death/grind" bands are death metal along with the old school bands. No matter how you look at it, both are death metal anyway.

I'm curious about the name of the band so I can be sure to boycott them.
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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:30 pm 
 

The point is to compare an older artist with a newer one. Take a semi-recent rock 'n roll artist and ask their fans if they think that Elvis is rock 'n roll.

rexxz wrote:
ahr888 wrote:
Death metal has been around long enough that those disagreements are somewhat generational. It all depends on what you grew up listening, what you listened at first when you identified a certain genre, or whether you changed your preferences in time. If one thinks that the latest is always the greatest, then today's death metal is death metal. For us who grew up with the old stuff, the newer material fails to impress.


That's not really true at all. I didn't grow up listening to Elvis, but am I going to say he didn't play rock 'n roll? Of course not.

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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8684
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:31 pm 
 

And if they said no, they'd be idiots. It's really simple.

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RevBau
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:02 pm
Posts: 1417
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:39 pm 
 

You also have to realise that not everyone knows about all these grenres and sub genres within metal. I didnt know about most of them before I started using this website and everyone I know doesnt know these genres either. Some one might consider Napalm Death or Pig Destroyer death metal without knowledge of grindcore. Or maybe b/c they both have such death influences that they never though of them as grindcore. How ever you are talking about Bring Me The Horizon who probbaly thinks grindcore = Bree Bree And Pig Squeeling. And back to the OP, Anyone who doesnt think those bands are death metal (regardless of anything at all) are fucking retarded. Im a firm believer that everyone should know the roots of the music they listen to. The people that dissagreed with Obituary being death metal have to be some trendy scensters (notice Im not generalizing the death/metalcore bands) who have no knowledge of old school death metal. I know from first hand experiences that the scene kids dont know shit about the history of these genres and just jump on the coolest bands. And some of these scene kids end up making shit bands and saying stupid things in interviews.


Last edited by RevBau on Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:58 pm 
 

I feel there is no excuse with todays technology not to research the music you enjoy. When I first got into metal we didn't have the internet or anything to learn about bands. I would buy a cassette and look at the thank you list of the band and then purchase music based on thanks lists. We had to really try hard to discover bands and it was well worth it and made finding a good band that much more special. Sometimes i would find a metal magazine at a local store thaat had some information in it, but other than that there wasn't much information out there.

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206
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:02 pm 
 

So let's get to the nitty-gritty: Did you call bullshit? Did you grin and bear it? Did they hold their ground?

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm 
 

206 wrote:
So let's get to the nitty-gritty: Did you call bullshit? Did you grin and bear it? Did they hold their ground?
Just kinda laughed to myself about it. We were at a party and having a good time drinking and it wasn't worth trying to convince these guys that they were wrong.

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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 4365
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:14 pm 
 

Just tell us the name of the band. I'm sure nobody will argue about it.

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zouoritual
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:55 pm
Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:25 pm 
 

I place my bets on it being Alice In Chains.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:28 pm 
 

It's a modern brootal death metal band.

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 773
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:30 pm 
 

Are they some of those jock meathead 'brootal' guys that started their metal fandom off with Dying Fetus and never looked back?

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Leviathan_Division
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 21
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:34 pm 
 

I really detest these new bands. For me, Incantation, Bolt Thrower, Morbid Angel etc will always be heavier. It dousn't matter how down tuned your guitar is, it dousn't matter how slow your breakdowns are, its about creating a sickening atmosphere.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:34 pm 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
Are they some of those jock meathead 'brootal' guys that started their metal fandom off with Dying Fetus and never looked back?
Pretty much!

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:35 pm 
 

Leviathan_Division wrote:
I really detest these new bands. For me, Incantation, Bolt Thrower, Morbid Angel etc will always be heavier. It dousn't matter how down tuned your guitar is, it dousn't matter how slow your breakdowns are, its about creating a sickening atmosphere.
Finally someone who sees it my way!!!

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