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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:04 pm 
 

Lately I've been just skimming over ideas in my head thinking up random names for new metal styles ("Bread metal" for example). Now, however, it's dawned on me that so many genres now exist that there don't seem to be many new possible directions to take metal in without fitting an already pre-defined mould.

Is it really possible that we can still create a new genre of metal and actually have quality music come out of it? Im sure we can still create useless crap that plays 50 different fills a minute and simply plucks random notes, but is there really anywhere left to take things?
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Pfuntner
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:07 pm 
 

There's a line in Jurassic Park that goes something like "Life will find a way"

I believe the same can be said about music. It will evolve some how.
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Crick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:09 pm 
 

Obviously it will evolve. I dont think its even possible to exhaust every single musical idea, as more always come in with the passing days. But what Im wondering is if we can create another genre of metal that not only becomes a major one (not a subgenre or offshoot, more like death or black even though they take influence from previous genres as well) but actually creates something of merit and quality.
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:12 pm 
 

Sadly the current trend is to water down real metal.

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Snowgrave
Under The Plaintive Sky

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:31 pm
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Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:14 pm 
 

I've always wondered the same thing actually. Here's a thread from a while ago with a similar inquiry: http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=30622.

Anyway, I think electronic stoner metal would be interesting. Or maybe Orchestral thrash metal...
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Kerpak
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:15 pm 
 

MapleKit wrote:
Sadly the current trend is to water down real metal.

Wrong?

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:15 pm 
 

The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.

Snowgrave wrote:
I've always wondered the same thing actually. Here's a thread from a while ago with a similar inquiry: http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=30622.

Anyway, I think electronic stoner metal would be interesting. Or maybe Orchestral thrash metal...


Thats not exactly what I meant either. Electronic Stoner Metal or Orchestral Thrash would be offshoots of existing genres. What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.
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Kerpak
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am
Posts: 180
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:17 pm 
 

Snowgrave wrote:
...Or maybe Orchestral thrash metal...



Wow I would really love to hear something like that D:

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:18 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:18 pm 
 

Kerpak wrote:
Snowgrave wrote:
...Or maybe Orchestral thrash metal...



Wow I would really love to hear something like that D:
Believer did it in the 90's.

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Cantonous
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:03 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:19 pm 
 

The Thrash vein (especially Death) is pretty much dry, but I'd say that Heavy, Doom, and Black Metal, in that order, have quite a few more potential innovations.

Entirely new genres can't be arbitrarily fabricated, no, because then they wouldn't be derivative of Metal, and thus not.

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:20 pm 
 

MapleKit wrote:
Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.


When in the hell did black metal have a trend? Possibly in Europe, but it's never seen such mainstream success as to have the average day-to-day student in a local Highschool going up to their friend and talking about the "next big black metal band" and such.
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Snowgrave
Under The Plaintive Sky

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:31 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:21 pm 
 

Cantonous wrote:
Entirely new genres can't be arbitrarily fabricated, no, because then they wouldn't be derivative of Metal, and thus not.

That's a great point actually.
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:21 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.


When in the hell did black metal have a trend? Possibly in Europe, but it's never seen such mainstream success as to have the average day-to-day student in a local Highschool going up to their friend and talking about the "next big black metal band" and such.
I remember in the late 90's seeing black metal articles in mainstream magazines. It got huge.

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:24 pm 
 

Snowgrave wrote:
Cantonous wrote:
Entirely new genres can't be arbitrarily fabricated, no, because then they wouldn't be derivative of Metal, and thus not.

That's a great point actually.


While it's a good point, I think I was a bit unclear with my original statement.

You can look at genres such as Sludge as taking heavy influence from things like Doom and Hardcore. You can HEAR these influences in Sludge fairly easy most of the time, correct?

Now, in the slower black metal bands, I find it much more difficult to take in influence from previous genres. Im not saying it needs to be a completely new variety of music, but an evolution of metal that is less of a hybrid and more of a primarily new creation with some detectable roots to figure out where it came from.

MapleKit wrote:
I remember in the late 90's seeing black metal articles in mainstream magazines. It got huge.


The magazine exposure primarily talked about it from the point of view of an outsider who was fascinated with the underground. You still haven't talked about a black metal band who got as much exposure as say...Cannibal Corpse (bear with me here) in mainstream media. Many youths chose death metal and believed that it was the only extreme metal genre due to being uninformed. When was black metal like this?
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Last edited by Crick on Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kerpak
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am
Posts: 180
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:26 pm 
 

MapleKit wrote:
Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.


What? maybe listen to actual good current bands, you know, metal ones?

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:30 pm 
 

Crick spend some time in europe and you will see what I mean. You can get black metal cds at the local supermarket.

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Ubojica
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:09 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:31 pm 
 

A thought crossed my mind just the other day .... do you think people who were into heavy metal back in 80`s hated the new thrash/death/black metal trend that has emerged for not being true metal as now many hate metalcore for not being true metal?
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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:31 pm 
 

Regardless, we're getting a tiny bit off topic. Discussing modern trends is unavoidable if we want to discuss new evolutions of metal, but do we really need to talk about how trends are hurting metal? If we can incorporte that into an argument on how it will evolve metal, that'll work. But we're going more into "New metal sucks!" and less "New metal sucks, this'll probably cause X to happen in Y."
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MapleKit
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:31 pm 
 

Kerpak wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.


What? maybe listen to actual good current bands, you know, metal ones?
I do.

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:32 pm 
 

Ubojica wrote:
A thought crossed my mind just the other day .... do you think people who were into heavy metal back in 80`s hated the new thrash/death/black metal trend that has emerged for not being true metal as now many hate metalcore for not being true metal?
Nope, my friends and I embraced it and loved it!!!

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Crick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:32 pm 
 

MapleKit wrote:
Crick spend some time in europe and you will see what I mean. You can get black metal cds at the local supermarket.


Being able to buy a genre in a local supermarket doesnt exactly mean they're a trend. I can buy jazz albums at the local store, that doesn't make jazz a big trend right now.
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MapleKit
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:35 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Crick spend some time in europe and you will see what I mean. You can get black metal cds at the local supermarket.


Being able to buy a genre in a local supermarket doesnt exactly mean they're a trend. I can buy jazz albums at the local store, that doesn't make jazz a big trend right now.
Black metal isn't the trend right now, it was in the late 90's.

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Crick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:37 pm 
 

Well, while I'd like to continue the argument, can we please get back to the initial discussion? Make another topic if you want to discuss metal trends in the mainstream world.
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Kerpak
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am
Posts: 180
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:40 pm 
 

MapleKit wrote:
Kerpak wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.


What? maybe listen to actual good current bands, you know, metal ones?
I do.

So what are you complaining about?

There are tons of new bands that are great.
(I'm not talking about -core or rap metal or whatever, those barely count as metal anyway).

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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:02 pm 
 

Kerpak wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Kerpak wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Crick wrote:
The "current trend" was almost never about "real metal", mainly the easier to digest bands. Though the easy to digest bands still definitely made plenty of "real" metal. Say what you will, Judas Priest aren't exactly difficult to get into. Regardless, trends pretty much ignore metal for the major part. Only now are we seeing rock get heavily commercialized.
Don't forget in the early 90's death metal was the current trend. Black metal had it's trend period too. Here in 2008 we have watered down metal bands blending core and hip hop into their music.


What? maybe listen to actual good current bands, you know, metal ones?
I do.

So what are you complaining about?

There are tons of new bands that are great.
(I'm not talking about -core or rap metal or whatever, those barely count as metal anyway).
ok

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:03 pm 
 

Was there really a need to quote all that just to say "ok"?
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MapleKit
34 going on 14

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:06 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
Was there really a need to quote all that just to say "ok"?
Is there really a need for anything we do in life?

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LiViNgDeAdVirUs
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 41
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:15 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.

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Crick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:28 pm 
 

LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.


Hmm...This might just work. Im wondering what you would call a technical sort of composition with circus music influence?
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Cantonous
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:03 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:31 pm 
 

A new genre can't be made without gradual evolution; an ancestor is necessary. There's plenty of potential for new subgenres to reach fruition through innovation.

Although innovation doesn't seem to be occurring much, these days, especially concerning choice genres. People just seem to prefer to try and make Death Metal louder.

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LiViNgDeAdVirUs
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 41
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:35 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.


Hmm...This might just work. Im wondering what you would call a technical sort of composition with circus music influence?


Lol I don't know, maybe Technical Circus Metal? It sounds a bit like one of those gimmick genres that wouldn't make it very far, though.

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Warlocks_amulet
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:56 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Depths ov Hell, Germany
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:37 pm 
 

LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.


Hmm...This might just work. Im wondering what you would call a technical sort of composition with circus music influence?


Lol I don't know, maybe Technical Circus Metal? It sounds a bit like one of those gimmick genres that wouldn't make it very far, though.


Acro-clown metal?

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19083
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:38 pm 
 

Crick wrote:
LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.


Hmm...This might just work. Im wondering what you would call a technical sort of composition with circus music influence?

Pretty annoying, probably.

But seriously that MIGHT be interesting. :p As long as we leave out stupid sound-clips.
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RageW
Marisa's Harlot

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:44 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:40 pm 
 

You'd call it Toxik's World Circus opening riff!
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thejestersgate
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:52 am
Posts: 230
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:44 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Crick wrote:
LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.


Hmm...This might just work. Im wondering what you would call a technical sort of composition with circus music influence?

Pretty annoying, probably.

But seriously that MIGHT be interesting. :p As long as we leave out stupid sound-clips.


The cd in a flesh aquarium from unexpect sounds like what you describe. To me at least.

I think a good blend of death, black, thrash, and minor accents of other genres make great tunes.

A death, thrash, power symphony maybe?

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19083
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:45 pm 
 

thejestersgate wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Crick wrote:
LiViNgDeAdVirUs wrote:
Crick wrote:
What I want to know is if we can still create a new genre that has its own distinctive playing style (like Black metal's tremolo riffing) rather than taking major influence from previous styles.


Maybe something that uses lots of bends and slides. I always thought that would be cool.


Hmm...This might just work. Im wondering what you would call a technical sort of composition with circus music influence?

Pretty annoying, probably.

But seriously that MIGHT be interesting. :p As long as we leave out stupid sound-clips.


The cd in a flesh aquarium from unexpect sounds like what you describe. To me at least.

I think a good blend of death, black, thrash, and minor accents of other genres make great tunes.

A death, thrash, power symphony maybe?

You clearly haven't read my review for that abomination.

And I don't think we should work on cobbling together genres. We should allow metal and rock in general to take its natural course. Something new will come along.
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Snowgrave
Under The Plaintive Sky

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:54 pm 
 

Oh, this got me wondering. Well, you know how there's this whole post-metal movement, with post-black, post-doom, post-thrash, etc... If there were such a thing, what would post-power metal sound like, or post-gothic metal? Post-folk metal?
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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:56 pm 
 

Unexpect's album is nothing like what I mean. I've been getting a lot of riffs in my head lately, but they're playful. Circus-like, with a tinge of black metal and a peculiarly jester-dance like mood to them. Its difficult to explain...

EDIT: Empyreal, you're SURE there are no standout tracks? I found Megalomaniac Trees to be fairly discernable in terms of direction and has some nice saxophone/violin duet tunes here and there.
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LiViNgDeAdVirUs
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 41
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:13 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
And I don't think we should work on cobbling together genres. We should allow metal and rock in general to take its natural course. Something new will come along.


But how else would new genres be created, if people didn't try to come up with new ideas?

Something else I just thought of; there could be a new genre in which the bands play their main riffs with high pitched power chords, and then for leads and solos they could use heavy notes, if you know what I mean.

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