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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:46 am 
 

Through absolutely no ideological bent,I confess that I am no fan of anything Finland puts out. Oh,there are exceptions (like the RevBiz) but it seems like alot of recommendations I get for death metal and black metal are of the Finnish bands. And few if any fail to impress me at at all. It's just an opinion,but I kind of feel bad about my prejudice against Finnish metal now since it seems that their scene seems to be behind the times so to speak or uninspired. Example:the black metal bands from there typically mimick Swede bands like Dark Funeral what with the Satanic themes which pervade which was cool back in the day but now highly looked down upon by the so called black metal elitist/purist collective;barraging and blasting metal that owes much to modern death metal IMHO. Black Crucifixion,Catamenia,Impaled Nazarene and Beherit all have failed to impress me in comparison to old Norwegian,USBM,LLN and last but not least German BM.
I am especially surprised there aren't more admirers of the latter on M-A than there are of the Finnish bands.
Aside from that genre,most bands that really annoy me also happen to be from Finland as well: Apocalyptica, Children of Bodom,Lordi and Finntroll. The last two especially.
I admit that I am now turned off by any and all metal from Finland. But I hope this will change. Its nothing against any Finns and I am sure they have great fans but I just don't see why so many metal hard liners around here are of the Finnish persuasion.
And on another aspect of it, I could be VERY wrong but why does it seem that the country overcompensates for their extreme metal relative to the Scandinavian scene? It just seems like they are like that younger kid or younger brother that wants to piss with the big boys. And it's not like Finland is part of Scandinavia geographically or culturally anyhow. Historically,the nation falls under Russia's sphere of influence.
Some peripheral topics to guide the thread better are:

Why you think Finnish metal is or should be superior to other scenes?

Do you have any other recoomendations of any metal genre by Finnish bands that might change my mind?

Why is it percieved that the Tuska Open Air is stealing Wacken's thunder?

How is it that alot of the famous metal bands who are a little wacky i.e. cello metal and cheese folk(the much maligned Finntroll) typcally come out of Finland? Is it the indiginous Ugric influences?

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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:49 am 
 

I feel kind of the same, BUT.........


BEHERIT FUCKING RULES.

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:53 am 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
I feel kind of the same, BUT.........


BEHERIT FUCKING RULES.



Yeah,Beherit actually isn't that bad I admit. Oath was good but Drawing Down the Moon was so disappointing. And I was kind of turned off when they refused orders from Norway but that was just a juvenile brouhaha anyhow.

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Kruel
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm
Posts: 3426
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:55 am 
 

marktheviktor wrote:
Why you think Finnish metal is or should be superior to other scenes?

Why on earth will I think Finnish metal is or should be superior to other scenes?
Quote:
Do you have any other recoomendations of any metal genre by Finnish bands that might change my mind?

If Beherit didn't convince you, umm.... listen to Beherit again. Actually, one band is not going to change your mind anyway (as it is the case with me; I don't care about the Finnish scene in general).


Last edited by Kruel on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pestbesmittad
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:19 pm
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:56 am 
 

marktheviktor wrote:
Example:the black metal bands from there typically mimick Swede bands like Dark Funeral what with the Satanic themes which pervade which was cool back in the day but now highly looked down upon by the so called black metal elitist/purist collective;barraging and blasting metal that owes much to modern death metal IMHO. Black Crucifixion,Catamenia,Impaled Nazarene and Beherit all have failed to impress me in comparison to old Norwegian,USBM,LLN and last but not least German BM.


Bands like Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion, Beherit, Clandestine Blaze and Warloghe certainly don't mimick Dark Funeral...

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:00 am 
 

Pestbesmittad wrote:
marktheviktor wrote:
Example:the black metal bands from there typically mimick Swede bands like Dark Funeral what with the Satanic themes which pervade which was cool back in the day but now highly looked down upon by the so called black metal elitist/purist collective;barraging and blasting metal that owes much to modern death metal IMHO. Black Crucifixion,Catamenia,Impaled Nazarene and Beherit all have failed to impress me in comparison to old Norwegian,USBM,LLN and last but not least German BM.


Bands like Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion, Beherit, Clandestine Blaze and Warloghe certainly don't mimick Dark Funeral...



I know but themetically it would seem so. I just couldnt remember the other Finn bands of that ilk to use as a better example.

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Kruel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:03 am 
 

Behexen could have been a better example.

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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:06 am 
 

How could someone not like The Gate of Nanna?

"AhhhVE SAAATAN, AhhhVE LUCIFEEER!"

:np:

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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:06 am 
 

Kruel wrote:
Behexen could have been a better example.




THAT'S the one I was looking for. Thanks. Behexen. A favorite of many that have reccomended me alot of black metal recently.

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:07 am 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
How could someone not like The Gate of Nanna?

"AhhhVE SAAATAN, AhhhVE LUCIFEEER!"

:np:



Pretty good track. Nattefrost almost improved on it though.

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mechanical_preacher
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:16 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:12 am 
 

I agree with the OP, and besides that, I always thought that the finnish scene is appreciated by people who like keyboards and cheesiness in their metal.

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:15 am 
 

mechanical_preacher wrote:
I agree with the OP, and besides that, I always thought that the finnish scene is appreciated by people who like keyboards and cheesiness in their metal.



Yeah,to me that stereotypes the whole scene in general.

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Pestbesmittad
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:19 pm
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:22 am 
 

marktheviktor wrote:
Pestbesmittad wrote:
marktheviktor wrote:
Example:the black metal bands from there typically mimick Swede bands like Dark Funeral what with the Satanic themes which pervade which was cool back in the day but now highly looked down upon by the so called black metal elitist/purist collective;barraging and blasting metal that owes much to modern death metal IMHO. Black Crucifixion,Catamenia,Impaled Nazarene and Beherit all have failed to impress me in comparison to old Norwegian,USBM,LLN and last but not least German BM.


Bands like Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion, Beherit, Clandestine Blaze and Warloghe certainly don't mimick Dark Funeral...



I know but themetically it would seem so. I just couldnt remember the other Finn bands of that ilk to use as a better example.


I don't know exactly what you mean by "thematically" here. For example Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion and Beherit were around before Dark Funeral. Beherit and Impaled Nazarene were both inspired by e.g. South American blasting stuff like e.g. Sarcofago. Clandestine Blaze doesn't have any Dark Funeral type imagery/concept either, nor are his lyrics of the "Hail Satan! x 100" type. I've never listened to Catamenia, so I cannot comment on them.

As for sticking to Satanic themes, well, it's black metal we're talking about after all. I cannot agree with ideas such as "theme X was cool back in the day but now it's time for something new" (if that's what you mean), as Satanic and other dark/occult themes are part of black metal and have always been. And who are these elitists/purists that are looking down on these subjects all of a sudden? Is there any campaign against "blasting black metal with Satanic imagery" going on?

The point is, I just don't see the Finnish BM scene as much worse than any other country's scene overall. And as for ripping off Dark Funeral, the worst offender in this category is absolutely Setherial (a Swedish band).

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Nolan_B
In League With Nolan

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:24 am 
 

marktheviktor wrote:
Nolan_B wrote:
How could someone not like The Gate of Nanna?

"AhhhVE SAAATAN, AhhhVE LUCIFEEER!"

:np:



Pretty good track. Nattefrost almost improved on it though.

Indeed, it is a great cover, but not as great vocals.

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:34 am 
 

Pestbesmittad wrote:
marktheviktor wrote:
Pestbesmittad wrote:
marktheviktor wrote:
Example:the black metal bands from there typically mimick Swede bands like Dark Funeral what with the Satanic themes which pervade which was cool back in the day but now highly looked down upon by the so called black metal elitist/purist collective;barraging and blasting metal that owes much to modern death metal IMHO. Black Crucifixion,Catamenia,Impaled Nazarene and Beherit all have failed to impress me in comparison to old Norwegian,USBM,LLN and last but not least German BM.


Bands like Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion, Beherit, Clandestine Blaze and Warloghe certainly don't mimick Dark Funeral...



I know but themetically it would seem so. I just couldnt remember the other Finn bands of that ilk to use as a better example.


I don't know exactly what you mean by "thematically" here. For example Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion and Beherit were around before Dark Funeral. Beherit and Impaled Nazarene were both inspired by e.g. South American blasting stuff like e.g. Sarcofago. Clandestine Blaze doesn't have any Dark Funeral type imagery/concept either, nor are his lyrics of the "Hail Satan! x 100" type. I've never listened to Catamenia, so I cannot comment on them.

As for sticking to Satanic themes, well, it's black metal we're talking about after all. I cannot agree with ideas such as "theme X was cool back in the day but now it's time for something new" (if that's what you mean), as Satanic and other dark/occult themes are part of black metal and have always been. And who are these elitists/purists that are looking down on these subjects all of a sudden? Is there any campaign against "blasting black metal with Satanic imagery" going on?

The point is, I just don't see the Finnish BM scene as much worse than any other country's scene overall. And as for ripping off Dark Funeral, the worst offender in this category is absolutely Setherial (a Swedish band).




Pestbesmittad wrote:
marktheviktor wrote:
Pestbesmittad wrote:
marktheviktor wrote:
Example:the black metal bands from there typically mimick Swede bands like Dark Funeral what with the Satanic themes which pervade which was cool back in the day but now highly looked down upon by the so called black metal elitist/purist collective;barraging and blasting metal that owes much to modern death metal IMHO. Black Crucifixion,Catamenia,Impaled Nazarene and Beherit all have failed to impress me in comparison to old Norwegian,USBM,LLN and last but not least German BM.


Bands like Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion, Beherit, Clandestine Blaze and Warloghe certainly don't mimick Dark Funeral...



I know but themetically it would seem so. I just couldnt remember the other Finn bands of that ilk to use as a better example.


I don't know exactly what you mean by "thematically" here. For example Impaled Nazarene, Black Crucifixion and Beherit were around before Dark Funeral. Beherit and Impaled Nazarene were both inspired by e.g. South American blasting stuff like e.g. Sarcofago. Clandestine Blaze doesn't have any Dark Funeral type imagery/concept either, nor are his lyrics of the "Hail Satan! x 100" type. I've never listened to Catamenia, so I cannot comment on them.

As for sticking to Satanic themes, well, it's black metal we're talking about after all. I cannot agree with ideas such as "theme X was cool back in the day but now it's time for something new" (if that's what you mean), as Satanic and other dark/occult themes are part of black metal and have always been. And who are these elitists/purists that are looking down on these subjects all of a sudden? Is there any campaign against "blasting black metal with Satanic imagery" going on?

The point is, I just don't see the Finnish BM scene as much worse than any other country's scene overall. And as for ripping off Dark Funeral, the worst offender in this category is absolutely Setherial (a Swedish band).



At the risk of seeming sheepishly elite, I just think many Finn black metal bands lack a good dose of that machiavellian inspiration that characterizes the great raw,atmospheric black metal that I adore i.e. Heaven in Flames,Aske,Transilvanian Hunger and Black Metal ist Krieg among others. Yes,the Stanaic and dark occult things are a staple of most all black metal but I was implying that alot of bands like Behexan and Beherit just aren't as subtle with it like the more established trailblazers like Mayhem and Emperor.

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Napero
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:24 am 
 

Not give a biased defence of finnish metal, but I must point out the fact that an oversized chunk of finnish bands that get exported are signed by Spinefarm/Spikefarm. They have their own methodology, and the results are more or less formulaic in some respects.

It's pretty difficult to see what you are looking for in your metal, but Horna is always a good choice, and our old thrash scene used to be very active: take a look at Stone and ARG, for example. I don't personally pay any attention to our power and melodeath bands, but then, I don't pay attention to any power or melodeath, except for Iron Savior and a few others.

Comparing anything to Dark Funeral and then claiming that something else is cheesy is pretty cheesy in my opinion, by the way. They are utterly boring, obviously a carefully considered product from a plastic factory at least on their last three albums. I mean, no one can be serious with that kind of stuff.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:42 am 
 

I couldn't agree more on your Dark Funeral assessment. They do stereotype black metal too much. Purely, a product of the plastic factory and in this case, The Abyss Studios.

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avrlabel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:20 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:46 am 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
I feel kind of the same, BUT.........


BEHERIT FUCKING RULES.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:49 am 
 

Impaled Nazarene are a favourite of mine, so I can't say I agree at all.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:00 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Impaled Nazarene are a favourite of mine, so I can't say I agree at all.






I tried to get through Pro Patria Finlandia but my arm somehow was compelled to switch the button to play Panzer Division Marduk instead. But that's a good thing, not a bad thing. :-)

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:02 am 
 

Have you tried any of their other stuff? Their latest is a good place to start. Very much a blackened thrash album, moreso than just black.
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Kerpak
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:04 am 
 

Uh, Kalmah?

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marktheviktor
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:05 am 
 

The Laiho contributions aren't bad.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:07 am 
 

Kerpak wrote:
Uh, Kalmah?


Another one I like. More balls than Bodom.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:10 am 
 

I had a copy of Swamplord in hand but a week ago but a co-worker nagged me to trade it for a SadEx bootleg before I had the chance to listen to it. I'll let you know how it is when I do get back to it.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:13 am 
 

Also get They Will Return and the Black Waltz.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:17 am 
 

I think the Black Waltz is sold on Spinefarm's site. My choice label and purchasing is done via No Colours Records so I'll have to look there.

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Humanity_Lost
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:28 am 
 

I haven't heard much black metal from Finland but I feel the same way you do, especially with the current abundance of cheesy Finnish power metal.

However, I started with metal from Finland, bands like Kalmah, Noumena, Insomnium, Nocturnal Winds and Wintersun all come from Finland.

But I believe that the countries you mentioned there are far more superior to Finland when it comes to black metal.

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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:34 am 
 

Humanity_Lost wrote:
I haven't heard much black metal from Finland but I feel the same way you do, especially with the current abundance of cheesy Finnish power metal.

However, I started with metal from Finland, bands like Kalmah, Noumena, Insomnium, Nocturnal Winds and Wintersun all come from Finland.

But I believe that the countries you mentioned there are far more superior to Finland when it comes to black metal.




For what it's worth, Finnish black metal by and large, is superior to most black metal bands that hail from the UK.

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MidnightStrength
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:04 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:38 am 
 

Though that may be the case with black metal, it isn't for death metal.

Sweden's development of the genre is marked by the lack of a thrash influence. It's still stuck in this heavy metal and rock roots, and it shows by many of its bands' rock and roll strong structures.

The best bands in Sweden, though, transcend this by emphasizing their love of Iron Maiden's melodic structures and develop this concept further in their music (especially early At The Gates).

Finnish metal, however, incorporates some organic, shape-shifting structures in their music. The best examples would be Demigod, Demilich, Cartilage, and Pentacle.

I would urge you to check out Demigod's Slumber of Sullen Eyes, Demilich's Nespithe, Cartilage The Fragile Concept of Affection, and Pentacle's ..Rides The Moonstorm for some Finnish death metal done well.

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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:43 am 
 

Good point. I did have Demilich on my wanted list but haven't got around to choosing which cd.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:46 am 
 

MidnightStrength wrote:
Sweden's development of the genre is marked by the lack of a thrash influence. It's still stuck in this heavy metal and rock roots, and it shows by many of its bands' rock and roll strong structures.


I'd say that Swedeath can be very thrashy. Entombed, Dismember, etc. Hardly what I'd call rock-rooted, except for the former's later releases.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:50 am 
 

That's a pretty cool album cover on Nespith. I think I'll start there. And if album art is any indication,it looks to be as advertised as far as the type of death metal they play.

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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:53 am 
 

The existence of "slumber of Sullen eyes" puts this whole argument to shame. Sure, they have their share of stupid "Finnish goat hut" shit (satanic warmaster etc, which is surely what the OP means in the context of shitty BM), and a whole lot of gay melodic shit, but they've always had some killer shit too, Nespith not being the least of these.
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Negru_Voda
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:12 am 
 

MidnightStrength wrote:

Finnish metal, however, incorporates some organic, shape-shifting structures in their music. The best examples would be Demigod, Demilich, Cartilage, and Pentacle.

I would urge you to check out Demigod's Slumber of Sullen Eyes, Demilich's Nespithe, Cartilage The Fragile Concept of Affection, and Pentacle's ..Rides The Moonstorm for some Finnish death metal done well.


Pentacle is Dutch. In addition to those I'd highly suggest checking out Sentenced's Shadows of the Past and maybe also North From Here. And also Amorphis' first two albums, The Karelian Isthmus and Tales From the Thousand Lakes.

There's loads of other good Finnish Death Metal bands out there; Convulse, Rippikoulu and Xysma for one, but the ones listed above are among the best.

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Jarnroth
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:24 am 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
The existence of "Slumber of Sullen eyes" puts this whole argument to shame.

No, the "Unholy Domain" demo.
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Pestbesmittad
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:19 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:46 am 
 

Napero wrote:
Comparing anything to Dark Funeral and then claiming that something else is cheesy is pretty cheesy in my opinion, by the way. They are utterly boring, obviously a carefully considered product from a plastic factory at least on their last three albums. I mean, no one can be serious with that kind of stuff.


My two cents on Dark Funeral: I actually enjoyed "Attera Totus Sanctus", since this album is more varied than "Vobiscum" and "Diabolis" were. I had also already written DF off as totally boring due to "Vobiscum" and "Diabolis". Btw, ATS was recorded at Dug Out Studios and not Abyss. As for SW, I enjoy "Opferblut" and "...Of the Night". Horna has in my opinion always been quite a generic band and I've never got into them much. Strangely enough they sound a lot better live than on record (I've seen them live three times so far).

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The
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:19 am 
 

At some level, I agree with you. Though CoB and companions are really on their edge of popularity, they are also the worst part of the scene.
I personally think that Finland does not provide any decent black metal, except for Beherit and Behexen of course. There are few promising bands on the demofield, but they're more like black metal with a hybrid of something.

Recently I've come to except the fact that Sweden has way more interesting bands and alltogether better scene. Finland has few top names like Moonsorrow, Swallow the Sun, Beherit, Behexen and Stone, who have clearly their own style and sound, but very few have really had any influence to metal in general.
I have to still point out that Finland has the best deathrash and death/black hybrid bands, and they're growing in numbers. For ex. Deathchain, Dauntless, Urn, Sear, Demigod and Demilich..

After reading my own post, I came to realize that hair does grow on Finland.

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RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:37 am 
 

It may not be what you're looking for, but I think Amorphis is god damn incredible.
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hornyjohnny
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:40 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:49 am 
 

Wow , i absolutely worship Finnish Metal
Apart from the essential greats such as Demilich , Demigod , Amorphis , Impaled Nazarene , Beherit , Behexen , S.Warmaster , Clandestine Blaze , Reverend Bizarre mentioned earlier by many posters , try out the following great bands - Sotajumala , Nerlich , Horna , Archgoat , Azaghal , Thergothon , Skepticism , Stone , Sentenced , Convulse
Try these bands encompassing many genres , hope this alters your perception of Finnish Metal . Cheers

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