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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:12 am 
 

Hello, folks!

I just wonder if there are people in the metal community who would be interested in looking at the conceptual metaphors and narratives, used in the metal lyrics. I suppose many people ignore or almost ignore the text part of the genre. However, I personally like to look into the texts a lot (I study to become a linguist). In December 2014 I started a blog "Digging Met(AL)aphor" (www.metalmetaphor.wordpress.com), where I publish an analysis (of figurative thought and stuff) of a random song every month. If there are people here, who are into that, let me know, please! Thanx!

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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 465
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:31 am 
 

Awesome! I only skimmed through one of your articles but this is right up my alley.

Bookmarked!

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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:34 am 
 

Thank you! Feel free to provide me with your thoughts about the topics.

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Red_Death
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 197
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:42 pm 
 

Andrey_Karr wrote:
Hello, folks!

I just wonder if there are people in the metal community who would be interested in looking at the conceptual metaphors and narratives, used in the metal lyrics. I suppose many people ignore or almost ignore the text part of the genre. However, I personally like to look into the texts a lot (I study to become a linguist). In December 2014 I started a blog "Digging Met(AL)aphor" (http://www.metalmetaphor.wordpress.com), where I publish an analysis (of figurative thought and stuff) of a random song every month. If there are people here, who are into that, let me know, please! Thanx!

It sounds really interesting.
Saying that as a student of British literature and comparative literature in general :credX1000:

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Niklas Sanger
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:17 pm
Posts: 82
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:00 pm 
 

I've always thought lyrics are a really underappreciated part of music (metal in particular), yes I know the music is the most important part but having good lyrics definitely adds to the experience.

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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:04 pm 
 

Red_Death, thank you for appreciating!

Niklas, yes, I totally agree with you. It happened to me so many times that I just could not listen to a band because the lyrics were either disgusting or really primitive.

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metalistkrieg
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 281
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:07 pm 
 

Lets be honest here guys, the vast majority of metal lyrics are fucking stupid. There are exceptions of course but the stupidity heavily outweighs the brilliance. Thankfully the music makes up for it.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4879
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:19 pm 
 

Read a couple of posts. Is the purpose to be informative or to prove something about CMT?
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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:20 am 
 

Hello, folks! No, I am not trying to prove anything. I just show the beauty of metaphor and the depth of human conceptualizations on the examples of metal lyrics, together with how this all adds to or shapes the narratives. Every month I pick an interesting or provokative song and dig up the conceptual metaphors stuff in it. Sometimes I get cool results! Like in case of the "Ghost of the navigator" by IM. I had never thought there was a resurrection narrative in this piece before I went through all the metaphors. This was my first analysis, my seminar paper at the university. After that I decided to share my findings with the world and start a blog. Same resurrection narrative is the basis for "The Majesty of the Nightsky" by Emperor. Megadeth has a bunch of just wonderful conceptualizations of time in "Time: the beginning". What I do is just showing this to people to appreciate the human lyrical genius. And I work with metal, because I am a fan of it :-)

John_Sunlight, what posts did you read?

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4879
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:15 pm 
 

Emperor and Megadeath. Most of the analysis seemed to be saying that metaphors are metaphors and imagery is imagery. Didn't get any new information out of it, and the jargon made it difficult to follow. What is the purpose of this methodology, exactly? Didn't seem to point out any particular patterns or hidden subtext, just stuff anyone could get from a straight-forward reading.
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Murtal
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:22 am 
 

Wonderful thread.
Even I can't speak fluently in English,I would try to be involved in this discussion.
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Thiestru
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 1231
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:46 pm 
 

Cool website. :) I'd enjoy reading an analysis of 'Help Me Disappear' by Katatonia, as I've always thought it was one of their best songs from a lyrical standpoint (and also in general), and one of the best expressions of loneliness I've ever heard.
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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:20 pm 
 

Thank you all for your comments!
John_Sunlight, there are no patterns or any subtexts there - forget it)) It is all very simple.

I do not agree with you as to "just stuff anyone could get from a straight-forward reading". Yes, most people will spot the very obvious metaphors, but the point is that very few will be able to say why this is a metaphor and how it works. As for the real metaphorical gems, many do not even realize that this/that is actually metaphorical (Even saying "I will call you on Tuesday" is a conceptual metaphor - can you explain why?).

I have to use the jargon because I write about the academic stuff. I agree that some basic knowledge of the field is desirable to get the fuller picture.

What I am doing is very simple. I take a song, I show there all the metaphors I can find and I explain why these expressions are metaphorical and how they work. I would agree with you that I provide too few examples or spare the detailed explanation of the metaphors in the earlier posts. But you must understand that they are already too long))

In the future I will try to provide more examples.

Right now I am working on a new post, which I plan to publish in several days. It is "Declaration day" by Iced Earth. There are quite a lot of metaphors (and some metonymies) there. And they are easy. Can you, please, point them out and explain them?

As for the CMT, the theory originated several decades ago in the cognitive linguistics tradition. Its main claim is that metaphor is a figure of thought, not language. Our way of conceptualizing the world and reasoning about it is metaphorical through and through. Language only mirrors our conceptual processes. As I said above, even such utterance as "I will call you on Tuesday" is a metaphor. In the course of the years CMT developed into a huge body of knowledge (backed with huge and solid body of empirical research in linguistics, psychology and neuroscience) within cognitive linguistics and cognitive science. The current version of it includes also the primary theory of metaphor, the neural theory of metaphor, the theory of conflation and the conceptual integration theory (conceptual blending).

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4879
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:48 pm 
 

I've seen lots of academic writing. Some informative, some not. Don't take it personal, but this looks like postmodern fluff.
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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:16 am 
 

Hi, mate. I am not taking it personally, of course, because I am used to that and it is the way things always are. There is some good feedback, there is some bad feedback, there are some sceptics around etc. Your impression, of course, depends on what kind of writing you have seen. And by whom. Notice also that my writing style is very personal, which, of course, is not an element of academic writing. I use lexicon, which is not a part of academic discourse. Even the grammar. As I said above, I write ABOUT the academic thing, but my writing style is different from the one I use to put my university papers together. And believe me, as I try to explain the whole thing to people, I still do it in a very simple manner. The literature on metaphor is written in a much more complicated way.

Again, I would like to make clear the point that I am not really doing science there: I am not trying to find or prove anything by what I am doing with my blog. I just point out the metaphorical expressions and try to figure out what metaphor is operating behind them and how, and what is the experiencial grounding of it. Then I show the results to people and that's it. However, when you are doing science, you are not researching metaphor just for the sake of it. Metaphors are windows to the mind, to how people see, categorize and conceptualize the world. Cognitive scientists deal with metaphors, because the latter show them how the mind operates. Then this research is combined with the findings in neuroscience and psychology to get a fuller picture.
Sometimes metaphorical language may hide subtexts, that's true. Discourse analysts, especially those working with political texts, are employing metaphor and frame semantics research to find out what may be hidden in the political language of this/that party/politician. Many other combinations are possible. Art, for example, uses metaphors in a non-linguistic way. It is all very interesting, when you delve into the topic.

But thank you for your comments. I took some lessons out of this conversation. Will be more informative in my next posts.

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J_Ason
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:46 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:58 pm 
 

The title should be Meta(L)phor.
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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:30 pm 
 

Hi, J_Ason,

thank you for suggestion, I see your point, but before I came up with my title I did some good thinking. Look, when you see my title you surely tend to read it as one word "metalaphor" - this is a sort of morphological blend, it does not violate the rules of English morphosyntax. What is presupposed in it is "metal metaphor" --> Digging Metal Metaphor. Your way of spelling is very different in this respect.

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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:28 pm 
 

Hey, guys! As promised, I published a new post. It is about "Declaration Day" by Iced Earth. Really easy read. I tried to make it very accessible, so that everyone can understand what is going on. If you are interested, then head to https://metalmetaphor.wordpress.com/201 ... ced-earth/

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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:06 pm 
 

Hello, folks!

I have just published a new post, in which I analyze the "Empty words" song by Death. Make sure you check it out and tell me what you think, ok? :-)

https://metalmetaphor.wordpress.com/201 ... rds-death/

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sebas4423
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:33 am
Posts: 48
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:55 am 
 

I read through a few of those and I am really enjoying them. Definitely going to bookmark this and await any new posts.

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Andrey_Karr
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:01 am 
 

Thank you!

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