I'd be really interested in the demos/early albums but I've no interest in digital only versions. If they released a boxset I'd order it straight away

But that also means he's had five hours worth of material sitting around for nearly 20 years?? Why hadn't he just released it at any point in the last 10 years or so when the whole Time thing started turning into a giant meme?

I'm pretty confident that the expansion to THE PACKAGE in April is going to be a reworked version of Time I that has the same production level as Time II. Jari has made it very clear that he is thoroughly unsatisfied with how Time I sounds, and no one in their right mind who knows anything about Jari's obsession over production or stubbornness when it comes to releasing material that he's unsatisfied with is going to think that he's going to let that fly, and what better time to release a reworked version of Time I than in the Time Package?

I'm not saying that's not going to happen, but Jari already put out a "remaster" of Time I during the last crowdfunding run. Is he really going to remaster Time I twice?

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he did, honestly.
I do have my doubts though, lol.

Maybe a version of Time I and II that make it feel like single album with the songs flowing from one album to the next.

I can see Jari doing this. I mean, it was intended to be a single album after all.

"You don't come here for hunting, do you?"

Unless we are talking a full remix rather than a remaster.

So I'm a sucker and pre-ordered. I doubt I would have done it without the Jari early songs part of the deal. That's actual additional material rather than all the separated stems and instrumental versions and such. I'm not a huge fan of that kind of stuff.

Jari's posted on of the demos that's included in the package.

The AI animations

Holy drum machine, Batman, that sounds like crap! Especially the guitar solo, yikes. The video is almost Neil Breen level of cringe, I kind of love it?

I meant redoing the orchestrations, redoing the mix, maybe even re-recording the guitars since Jari said he hated the way they sounded to the point where he deliberately put them too low in the mix, the whole shebang.

I should be upset that they used shitty AI instead of actual animators, but since this is Wintersun we're talking about, I can't exactly be surprised...

I didn't even listen. I just clicked play to skip to see the AI and still skipped to watch most of it.

I think between this and the super nerdy weeb artwork that is coming out for all of Time II, I'm kinda going over to Jari's side...

Five hours worth of stuff and he didn't feel any of it was worth polishing up and releasing as a follow up to the first album, even as a few EPs or something?

Dude ran before he could walk and it shows. First album to Time I was jarring as hell and he could easily have put out more S/T sounding material while working on Time.

A.I. animations are more attention than what most artists give to demo tracks TBF. They don't always sound the best either.

The comment section on YouTube for the video he posted was about 98% fanboys.

The problem there is he would've needed his own animation studio to produce them, which would have necessitated another 3-5 rounds of crowdfunding and 12 more pointless remasters, remixes, and re-remasters of existing material to justify them, representing a total delay of approximately 9 more years until the release of the biggest milestone in modern metal history, Time II, and the world can't wait that long.

Well, this was certainly worth the wait...

https://youtu.be/HxSHqSK-EFE?si=LVzW1gAJ1vm_1rx1

Warning is a really weird thing. It’s something to show the new gear Jari had, but not part of anything really. Not even on Spotify. I guess it’ll be a new addition to the Time Package in April.

My brain still can't even process the fact that we waited 11 years for Jari to noodle around with a guitar in strobing lights for two minutes straight

I guess Jari jingled enough keys (or should I say, jingled his "massive package") in front of people's faces - seems like the scene that scorned him for the past 11½ years is getting hyped up for this. Absolutely zero sympathy from me, for anybody who inevitably gets burned by this and/or by Wintersun's future endeavors. If dogs can learn to associate food with a bell ringing, you should be able to associate Wintersun with diminished returns.

I do hope for the sake of all the better things this preorder money could've been spent on (such as 13,000+ "Useless Boxes", no seriously, do the math) that people at least get something good out of their investment, but no amount of "miscellaneous demos you should've been working on for 18 years instead of halfheartedly tossing into a crowdfunding package" is going to make this worth it. I refuse to so much as listen to it on streaming services. My ears and my internet clicks are worth less than a drop of water in the ocean of the metal scene and I'm well aware of that, yet even "less than a drop of water" is too much for me to give these grifters. There are bands putting out music almost as good as Wintersun with 8-tracks in their bedrooms, yet somehow Jari can't manage it without an entire empire made out of futuristic equipment.

At least we have BastardHead's review on it to look forward to. Those are always fun. I once considered starting a band called "Starless Winter Darkness" after his "Time I" review. I might still do that someday.

I just realized most of the bonus package is labeled "The Songs of Jari Mäenpää". Is this guy really still plastering his name on the front of Wintersun material? This time it's in even bigger writing than the actual band logo!

OK, but how do you really feel? I don't see how someone is going to get burned by buying something that they genuinely believe is worth the cost. Jari has never literally scammed anyone in the sense that he has never refused to give anyone what they paid for. Wintersun has detailed all of the contents of the Time package, and because of the multitude of clips from the Time Package, including the entirety of at least one of the demo tracks (Red Horizon [The Pirate Song]), the quality of the content is not a mystery either. So people are suckers and gullible acolytes for getting something that they are aware of the quantity and quality of, and that they are going to get it? Nope, that doesn't add up. If I didn't think the Time Package was worth the cost I would not consider getting it, and no amount of begging for money on Jari's end would have changed my mind. But I do think it's worth it, so I am considering getting it. Yes, Jari's actions have been shady and grifting, but my previous points still stand. Companies do far worse things than what Jari is doing all the time. Yet, this fervent moral outrage and sanctimonious accusations of being brainwashed, money-throwing, obedient dogs are not leveraged toward their customers. If someone immediately purchased this package solely because they believe Jari's actions are a just cause then what you're saying applies to them. It does not, however, apply to people who simply want the stuff in the package and genuinely believe it's at least a good enough value to warrant purchasing.

By now the total has reached €286K. Together with the original €464K this comes to the €750K that was the overall goal. Will we finally come into a time of frequent Wintersun releases?

A podcast with the band members https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TffC8A5J5-k

I finally watched the Jari apology / explanation video and a couple things still bother me. People (especially the diehard fans that worship the ground he walks on) seem to be forgetting

1) The initial Forest Seasons campaign was an "all or nothing" campaign. Jari said the album was finished but if he didn't make 250k in pre-order sales he would not release anything and that all future releases would also be in question. This led to a lot of "holding the album hostage" claims which he never debunked and doesn't even mention here.

2) The second and third campaigns were dropped quietly after he made more than enough on the first one. He has a throw away line about plans changing but doesn't say anything definitively. From my perspective, Jari seemed to imply that all 3 campaigns would be in the service of releasing a new album, culminating with the construction of his studio and finally, the release of Time II. It seems he ended up working with what he made on the first campaign, and decided it was enough to finish the album, but that still doesn't explain what the plans for the other campaigns would have been. Not the worst thing, but it still feels weird having him not even address it.

Overall I can't call him a con artist or a grifter since he has released everything as promised, but, man, the years of silence and a complete lack of communication paint this man as either hilariously incompetent to the point of absurdity or a really scummy scheming individual who lies by omission and rewrites history to make himself seem way more earnest than he actually is. Both options are pretty bad.

Hope the music is good though.

I wonder if Time II was completed because of some additional pressure from Nuclear Blast.

The Time Package will include a remixed and remastered version of Time I, one that finally is to the liking of Jari.

And so far, 6,900 people have pledged €346k.

Yeah but if you wait 10 years you'll get to hear Time I+II 3.0: You Can (Not) Have Enough Time.

I know variations on this joke have been like shooting fish in a barrel for quite some Time but what does he expect.

Hell yeah. We called it! It's kinda funny at this point. I think I'm back on Jari's side, the fucking nerd.

I wonder if the newly remastered, and remixed Time I will get a physical release eventually. It seems like going forward, when it's released, that that should be the logical version to listen to. Especially since it's supposed to sound consistent with how Time II sounds.

In the video Jari says this will likely not happen. It also seems like a dangerous investment to release a new version of an album, with over 7000 people who already have that version digitally. They need to sell enough to make it worthwhile. And how many people actually think Time I is mixed badly?

One person thinks it's mixed badly: Jari.

Hope I am wrong, but am I the only one worried that the new album will sound a bit 'artificial'?

I’m not worried, I’m certain.

For a guy who's set his recording/mixing/mastering standards so fucking high, I'm surprised he actually released The Forest Seasons in its current form.