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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:45 am 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
I don't at all buy the argument that power metal bands don't blast because that's not how people in the 80s played metal. Blast beats are extremely aggressive and that's just not what power metal is about. Power metal is mostly about melody of the keys, guitar, vocals, and the general "epic" feeling of the songwriting; all of which are conveyed much better by double bass runs than constant snare hits. The same goes for heavy metal. And thrash with blast beats is essentially just grindcore, so it makes sense thrash bands don't blast much either; it completely changes the vibe.

For the other question, there are two main reasons power metal bands are less common. The first is skill: to play even entry-level power metal, everyone in the band needs to be a near expert at their instrument. It's possible to play competently in a black/death/doom/heavy/thrash band within a year of starting out. Power metal, with its insistence on theatrics, speed, and solos... you're looking at closer to five years of regular practice to get there.

Second is popularity. Although power metal is popular in Europe and Japan, that's about as far as it goes. Despite a recent minor resurgence in popularity in North America, the audience is just comically small. Unleash The Archers are unequivocally the biggest North American power metal band at the moment and even they play 200-300 person clubs.

Unleash the Archers just played a ~1,300 person venue in Toronto last year. It wasn't sold out, but definitely pretty well filled.

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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:02 pm 
 

Kamelot is playing here in May to a venue that depending on setup can fit up to 750 people. Same place I've seen Cannibal Corpse and Overkill. I doubt they will sell it out.

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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:43 pm 
 

There are a few power metal bands that fill stadiums though. For example, Helloween, here in Argentina they played in a micro stadium with a capacity of 8000 people, their last tour they sold out the venue.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:45 pm 
 

Power metal is definitely a different beast outside the US. I know a lot of metal fans but almost nobody into power metal. Most I talk to find it weak.

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StarshipTrooper
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 320
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:18 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Although power metal is popular in Europe and Japan, that's about as far as it goes.


The world is more than just Europe, Japan and North America.
Power metal bands are big in South America as well.

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:36 pm 
 

StarshipTrooper wrote:
narsilianshard wrote:
Although power metal is popular in Europe and Japan, that's about as far as it goes.


The world is more than just Europe, Japan and North America.
Power metal bands are big in South America as well.

Chile has 88 active power metal bands vs 940 active death metal bands.

SanPeron wrote:
There are a few power metal bands that fill stadiums though. For example, Helloween, here in Argentina they played in a micro stadium with a capacity of 8000 people, their last tour they sold out the venue.

I knew as soon a I made that comment people would be jumping on me with examples of the most popular power metal bands of all time and acting like what they do is a normal part of the scene and not complete outliers. This is like saying Industrial Metal is popular because Rammstein exists.
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Forever Underground
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:35 am
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:05 pm 
 

Nah but it's weird that you say that power metal has a very small audience when there are several bands of that genre that manage a number of listeners and attendees in concerts that no death or black metal band can match. I have never seen as many people in an extreme metal concert as I have seen in one of Helloween, Blind Guardian, Sabaton or Nightwish in Europe and Latam.
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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:26 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
StarshipTrooper wrote:
narsilianshard wrote:
Although power metal is popular in Europe and Japan, that's about as far as it goes.


The world is more than just Europe, Japan and North America.
Power metal bands are big in South America as well.

Chile has 88 active power metal bands vs 940 active death metal bands.


Doesn't mean that power metal bands from outside the country are not popular there.

narsilianshard wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
There are a few power metal bands that fill stadiums though. For example, Helloween, here in Argentina they played in a micro stadium with a capacity of 8000 people, their last tour they sold out the venue.

I knew as soon a I made that comment people would be jumping on me with examples of the most popular power metal bands of all time and acting like what they do is a normal part of the scene and not complete outliers. This is like saying Industrial Metal is popular because Rammstein exists.


I don't know if they are outliers. DragonForce, Sonata Arctica, Sabaton, Hammerfall, Blind Guardian are other power metal bands that do quite well outside in South America.

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Thexhumed
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1924
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:56 am 
 

Why aren't there any Immortal clones in Black Metal? I know there're many bands with a sort of similar sound, but I can't think of any band that copies their style fully.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:20 am 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
Why aren't there any Immortal clones in Black Metal? I know there're many bands with a sort of similar sound, but I can't think of any band that copies their style fully.


Lamp Of Murmuur's Saturnian Bloodstorm was pretty much an attempt to make At The Heart of Winter, and a pretty good one at that.

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AxeCapitol
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:38 pm
Posts: 595
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:17 pm 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
Why aren't there any Immortal clones in Black Metal? I know there're many bands with a sort of similar sound, but I can't think of any band that copies their style fully.


Inquisition? At least vocally?

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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:53 pm 
 

Inspired by the legibility of death metal lyrics debate going on in the Unpopular Opinions thread, I was just wondering if there has been a changing perception regarding the importance of lyrical quality in heavy metal. It’s probably a reflection of my own bias, but it seems like metal lyrics are much more of an afterthought compared to past decades. If it is a thing, what caused the shift? Could we really blame extreme metal for it since it often seems like they aren’t as important in melodic metal genres either?
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MorbidSaint69
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:42 pm
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:19 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Inspired by the legibility of death metal lyrics debate going on in the Unpopular Opinions thread, I was just wondering if there has been a changing perception regarding the importance of lyrical quality in heavy metal. It’s probably a reflection of my own bias, but it seems like metal lyrics are much more of an afterthought compared to past decades. If it is a thing, what caused the shift? Could we really blame extreme metal for it since it often seems like they aren’t as important in melodic metal genres either?


I think it's just a tendency any form of popular music has. I mean, go back to the disco era and probably none of its fans really cared if the lyrics were some thought-provoking literature.

Now, I feel that this issue has 2 sides: one for the fans and another for the artists. I don't think that even at the height of intelligibility, most fans cared about the lyrics. Sure, a lot of them knew, say, all of Iron Maiden's songs by heart, but most of the others would simply cite the instrumentation as what dragged them in. If we also take into account the incredible popularity of metal in non-English-speaking areas like Europe or South America (and I know this first hand), you aren't really interested in lyrics that you can't fully make out first listen, so it never really ends up developing into an "important" aspect of the music (even to this day I only really care for like 3 lyricists in the entire genre).

Now in regards to the artists, being one myself I can assure you most of them put some thought and care into what goes into their lyrics. Even if you're like me and don't care much for what other bands sing about, at least you'll have a concern for the type of stuff you'll write to release onto the public, no matter what the actual reaction to it will be (if any at all).

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yungstirjoey666
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:39 pm 
 

How often do you guys find heavy metal cds in thrift stores or donated book/media sales? I found an Oceanborn copy at the thrift store for $2 and an Angel of Retribution yesterday at my campus's book sale for $3.


Last edited by yungstirjoey666 on Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:00 pm 
 

Ugh, I miss the days of cool finds like that. That's how I got into Rhapsody, by finding Rain of a Thousand Flames at a used book store for $3. In the age of Discogs that's becoming super rare, since people are just a few clicks of finding the "true" value of any piece of physical media ever made.
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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:08 pm 
 

Chapter 3 of my Manilla Road plunge:

I'll admit I was left kinda cold with The Deluge, but I figured onward and upward, so I got Crystal Logic next. The songs are definitely there. If It had Mystification's production it would be my favorite Manilla Road album ever.
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King_of_Arnor
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
Posts: 799
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:53 pm 
 

yungstirjoey666 wrote:
How often do you guys find heavy metal cds in thrift stores or donated book/media sales? I found an Oceanborn copy at the thrift store for $2 and an Angel of Retribution yesterday at my campus's book sale for $3.

I once found Peace Sells (non-remastered) and Speak English or Die at a second hand bookshop for £3 each in pretty good condition. But aside from that lucky find I've only seen a handful, mostly alternative metal that's not on the archives.
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MARSDUDE
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:00 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Chapter 3 of my Manilla Road plunge:

I'll admit I was left kinda cold with The Deluge, but I figured onward and upward, so I got Crystal Logic next. The songs are definitely there. If It had Mystification's production it would be my favorite Manilla Road album ever.


Give Open the Gates or The Courts of Chaos a listen.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:05 pm 
 

I like all their 80s stuff the same except Mystification which is a clear highlight. All the rest is very good and consistent. Then they had some great highlights later with Spiral Castle and Voyager, and then The Blessed Curse.

Re: lyrics in metal... I think for a lot of bands it was always somewhat an afterthought. There's just a lot more, now. But good lyrics are part of the package and it does enhance it all.
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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:34 am 
 

I will pick up Open The Gates, but won't that just have the same production as The Deluge? Especially since its in between that and Crystal?


yungstirjoey666 wrote:
How often do you guys find heavy metal cds in thrift stores or donated book/media sales? I found an Oceanborn copy at the thrift store for $2 and an Angel of Retribution yesterday at my campus's book sale for $3.


Sounds like you live at the best college ever!
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HighwayCorsair
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:38 am 
 

Mystification is what made Manilla Road finally click as an 18 year old. I didn't understand them but really wanted to because of the great riffs and that one tied it all together and helped me make sense of the trilogy.
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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:00 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
I will pick up Open The Gates, but won't that just have the same production as The Deluge? Especially since its in between that and Crystal?

Going by just the remastered versions, Open the Gates definitely sounds better than The Deluge, with a more balanced mix.
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yungstirjoey666
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 644
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:48 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
yungstirjoey666 wrote:
How often do you guys find heavy metal cds in thrift stores or donated book/media sales? I found an Oceanborn copy at the thrift store for $2 and an Angel of Retribution yesterday at my campus's book sale for $3.


Sounds like you live at the best college ever!


I believe it was mainly just luck. Heavy metal isn't super huge in the DC area. I suspect such physical copies are donated from far away.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 9:00 am 
 

How likely might it be, that Slayer's slower moments during their classic era, such as the intro to South of Heaven, influenced doom metal to come?

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HighwayCorsair
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:21 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
How likely might it be, that Slayer's slower moments during their classic era, such as the intro to South of Heaven, influenced doom metal to come?


Doom metal already existed by then....
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:23 am 
 

HighwayCorsair wrote:
DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
How likely might it be, that Slayer's slower moments during their classic era, such as the intro to South of Heaven, influenced doom metal to come?


Doom metal already existed by then....


Yes but there are doom metal bands that were formed after 1988, right? :wink:

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Ace_Rimmer
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 4687
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:30 am 
 

yungstirjoey666 wrote:
How often do you guys find heavy metal cds in thrift stores or donated book/media sales? I found an Oceanborn copy at the thrift store for $2 and an Angel of Retribution yesterday at my campus's book sale for $3.


I found some Queensryche, Dream Theater, and Fates Warning CD at a Goodwill last week. .98 cents each!

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easyrocker
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Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:49 am 
 

Where did Agent Steel get the sample used in "The Calling" from?

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Zerberus
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Posts: 2342
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:28 am 
 

Is there a lore reason why Tom Araya's vocals sound soooo weak and disinterested on South of Heaven?
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yungstirjoey666
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:17 pm 
 

What are your guys' opinions on the lyrics of post-MO Avantasia? They often warrant some minor criticism that they don't make too much sense, though you could make an argument that part of the appeal of the vague lyrics is that you get to pin your own story or imagination based on what was written, which is the true meaning of Avantasia.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:21 pm 
 

He's like one of the biggest metal acts in the world and still writing about how he's misunderstood and an outcast - kind of funny but I guess you do what you gotta do.
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:02 pm 
 

yungstirjoey666 wrote:
What are your guys' opinions on the lyrics of post-MO Avantasia? They often warrant some minor criticism that they don't make too much sense, though you could make an argument that part of the appeal of the vague lyrics is that you get to pin your own story or imagination based on what was written, which is the true meaning of Avantasia.


I like them, he is like our power metal Meat Loaf metal opera singer. The stories that he created along with his discography are pretty fun to decipher while you are listening to the albums. I think you can understand the stories that he is telling you if you have the booklet with the lyrics and read them while listening to the album, that was what I did, and it was a cool experience.
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Bronze Age
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:37 pm 
 

easyrocker wrote:
Where did Agent Steel get the sample used in "The Calling" from?


I think I read (or maybe it was on youtube) an interview it was some guy that called into a radio show.

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Bronze Age
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:41 pm 
 

Zerberus wrote:
Is there a lore reason why Tom Araya's vocals sound soooo weak and disinterested on South of Heaven?


I think they just wanted create an album that sounded different than Reign in Blood.

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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:22 pm 
 

Have any of you guys seen Death to All live? Is the official tribute band of Death fronted by Steve Digiorgio. I am hearing great things about them, they recently came to South America, and I was surprised by the reaction of people to the show.

Another question I have is have any of you guys listened to Darko US? It's a deathcore band, but they mix their music with electronic music and came up with something pretty new, I know this isn't the favorite style of the board but since we recently had those conversations about the present and future of metal, I thought they sounded interesting.
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Zerberus
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:43 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
Have any of you guys seen Death to All live? Is the official tribute band of Death fronted by Steve Digiorgio. I am hearing great things about them, they recently came to South America, and I was surprised by the reaction of people to the show.
.


I saw them several years ago, and they're quite good. The singer/guitarist Max Phelps sounds a LOT like Chuck.
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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:47 pm 
 

So I stumbled into the members section of Possessed and I see Jack Nguyen, piano player since 1983. Since when the fuck does Possessed have a piano player.
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King_of_Arnor
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:29 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
So I stumbled into the members section of Possessed and I see Jack Nguyen, piano player since 1983. Since when the fuck does Possessed have a piano player.

An obvious troll, edited in by some kid who wants to promote his black metal band.

(The info on their latest EP is the first time I've seen a credited triangle player anywhere on this site :lol:)

Also, this reminds me that for some reason Krist Novoselic is listed as a past member of Metal Church.
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simonitro
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:58 am 
 

Has Tuomas Holopainen mishandled his talents?

Aside from him and Emppu, they are the only founding members since 1996 and from then, many have gotten fired or left from Tarja, Anette, Marco, Sami to Jukka. That's not quite a good track record for a leader especially for a band like Nightwish. While the music is good for the most part, there plenty of hits than misses and he does come across the narcissistic that don't really care much about his former bandmembers and get fired for any reason and then writes a sappy song about it.

So, what are your thoughts?

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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:29 pm 
 

simonitro wrote:
Has Tuomas Holopainen mishandled his talents?

Aside from him and Emppu, they are the only founding members since 1996 and from then, many have gotten fired or left from Tarja, Anette, Marco, Sami to Jukka. That's not quite a good track record for a leader especially for a band like Nightwish. While the music is good for the most part, there plenty of hits than misses and he does come across the narcissistic that don't really care much about his former bandmembers and get fired for any reason and then writes a sappy song about it.

So, what are your thoughts?



My thoughts are 9/10 when someone is a worship band but turns into something original, the something original sucks and they should have stayed the worship band. Nightwish should have stuck to Stratovarious worship. Especially since I always thought Stratovarious sucked. I get why I'm supposed to like Stratovarious, but I just don't.
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