So what have you been doing lately?

Well I actually work, so I can't sit on the comp and bitch about black metal musicians and other trivial shit all the time. Not that I would want to, because I don't rip on people for having a crack. But when you just attack people for no real reason that's just pathetic.

You have enough time and will to make multiple posts in this thread, it seems.

If you listen/explore the discographies of those bands, you'll see that they're absolutely worthless and worth mocking.

Hard to believe but most people here have jobs!!!!!!! Not quite sure how they can manage to post on a metal forum on their down time, eh?! I guess they should spend their time making 12 NSBM albums instead.

I think you are missing the point. It's not so much that these artists/"bands" (calling one person a band is misleading in my opinion) are prolific and play lo-fi black metal. Rather, they ATTEMPT to play lo-fi black metal, and prolifically fail at it.

Its like, I don't know how to fly a helicopter. But I'm smart enough not to hop in a helicopter every few days and crash it. Or, I don't know the card game Bridge. So naturally, I'm not going to sit in on a bridge game and blow all my money, every single night, bidding stupidly because I don't know what I am doing.

These guys don't know how to play their instruments, and yet they continually record and produce music. On one hand I respect them for trying, persistance pays off, etc. But on the other- I would respect them a lot more until they waited until they were sufficiently proficient enough at it to actually record some of their "music." And all this Nazi/hitler bullshit that some of these guys are into; seriously kids, grow up already.

Clearly, quite a few of us. So, these are not our peers.



I disagree. This is just pathetic.

You clearly have enough time to make a few posts in this thread.

Yeah, I was thinking just that. Nobody needs a dweed who complains about "others having no life" but who still takes time to tell people they have no lives.

Oh yeah, and fuck this idea that if you're not doing "something" yourself, you can't judge. I do not need to be a musician to criticize music. I do not need to be a movie director to criticize movies. I do not need to be a cook to know what good food is. I do not need to be a professionnal hockey player to know if a professionnal hockey player is good. I do not need to write books to tell a bad book from a good book.

Very true. Those artists could have choose the easy way and be supermarket robbers BUT NO: they have chosen the difficult path of the underground musician!
Writing exciting riffs every hour, programming EXTREMELY FAST drums, doing countless sessions of black and white kult photos and risking their future social life with absolutely original NSBM views, always targeted by online haters and local school bullies.
Not even Lady Gaga has to endure such a stressful life

I do understand what you are saying, but you also have to remember that even though some of these guys do put out a fair few shit songs, they do put out some gems and a fair few decent songs as well, so I don't think it is as horrible as some people here are making out. You definitely have to sort through their discographies to find the good stuff, but sometimes its definitely worth doing so. If you know what I mean?



I do agree with you that is a poor song, but as I said above, you have to sort through a few poor songs to find the decent ones and the very good ones. It's definitely all subjective, but I refuse to believe that 100% of these careers are nothing but pure shit. Even ZBT pens a few good ones every now and then.



Yeah fuck off cunt, like your opinion even matters. What are you, just another loser jumping on the e-bandwagon? earn some credit yourself before you bring others down. The difference between people like you and me, is I don't need to jump on an online forum and bash musicians that have actually done a fair amount of work, just to get my kicks. How sad.

And for the record, Heirdrain is the best band on that list.

You're a funny guy. You have to remember, quantity is actually a quality.

This is a good point. It's obvious that there is some kind of connection between being able to do something well and being able to critique it well. That connection is the knowledge of the process involved in doing that thing. However, they are ultimately not the same because the skills for doing something are focused on the process and critique is focused on the product's effect on people. One who is skilled at expressing the effect a piece of music has on them, its aesthetic appeal, its place in the artistic movement around it, etc, can be a very successful critic even if they don't know exactly how that outcome came about in a mechanical sense.

This is why it is not necessary to be a musician to critique music, but why having musical knowledge is advantageous for critique.

Have you ever noticed that this argument only comes out when there's some group that doesn't like a given band? Nobody makes this argument when a bunch of "unqualified" internet losers have positive things to say about something. Varg never comes on this forum and says "You have to be a musician to say 'Hvis Lyset Tar Oss' is brilliant".

Yup, it's a very thin and transparent way of saying "I'm really insecure about my opinion." Like if the person bashing these bands suddenly changed their opinion and loved the music, these people would say "oh, okay, you don't have to be a musician to talk about it now, it's cool."

From the list of songs in the OP, I'd say ZBT was my least favourite, also his songs sounded more like rock than bm. I liked the riffs in the first Tank Genocide song. Granatus "I Hate You", I consider myself to have a high tolerance for bad recording quality, but this song is probably the worst quality I've ever heard. And I did like that first Northern Forest song, they seemed out of place on this list.

I'll always have a soft spot for one-man bands. Music isn't about being popular, it's about expressing yourself, and there's no better way to fully express yourself musically than a one-man band (especially if there's no programmed instruments).

Any suggestions?

Haha! Yeah, it's just a dishonest way to tell someone that you don't feel like talking with them/debatting with them, but that you still think that your own views are better.

I get why it's annoying that people who aren't doing anything criticize others who try. I remember trying to createve StarCraft maps when I was a teenager, and one of my friends who was not adventurous or creative in any way kept telling me that my maps sucked. I mean, they probably did... but I was a kid and I was trying.

But again, we shouldn't stop crticizing arts just cause it can hurt the artists. At some point, you have to accept the fact that there will be negative criticism when you decide to do something like create music.

They might not make that argument per se but there is no shortage of folks pining to tell others that they are wrong for liking something, or that their reasons for liking it are wrong

Hopefully those people have strong, logical arguments.

We're all proud of you for having a crack. Breaking that kvlt mould and actually being a productive member of society by getting a job. How tr00 of you. Varg would also be proud.

Feel free to demonstrate anything to the contrary with Tank Genocide and Granatus. Even if they're only 90% pure shit, why would one listen further? These bands tend to be a running gag on this site as we dutifully (and lamentingly) acknowledge and archive the shit they put out.

These bands in the poll often come up for three reasons:
-Most releases http://www.metal-archives.com/stats/bands
-Lots of side projects (from the shit we hear in the band queue)
-Almost universally maligned/ignored despite being prolific

Considering just how many great black metal acts there are in the world right now, why would you waste your time with shit like this in hope of finding one good riff every one hundred shitty ones...

Pardon the necromancy, but this band seems to have appeared in the stats out of nowhere:

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Zwetwezen/91772

Anyone familiar with the stuff and can say anything about style and quality?

Never heard of them. Any clips/samples?

Judging by the sheer volume of output, and the similar amount of effort and talent (hurrrr...) that goes into each and every Granatus, Tank Genocide, and Zarach Baal Tharagh release, my expectations for that band are not very high.

Regarding criticism- I think it would be taken better if people tried to be constructive, for example, saying specifically WHY a given band sucks. Specifically, what sucks about it? For example, recording songs on a $20 practice amp and barely being able to pull off the most simple three chord tremolo riffs (if they pull it off at all), and using then a drum machine basically as a metronome, and not going to any effort to program any kind of real rhythm, and then recording the whole thing on a Sony Walkman and uploading the whole mess onto the internet...that is not going to cut it.

So, if I was that Granatus kid, or the autistic child behind Tank Genocide, I would at least hopefully understand where the negative feedback comes from and try to improve.

a full demo of Zwetwezen. from 2014.


It's really atmospheric. It's not original but not offensive like some of the other bands on this list. What's save it are the keyboards.

Agathocles are fucking awesome mate. If you don't appreciate Razor Sharp Daggers at least, you hate fun.

Tank Genocide is by far the worst. The others at least have some appreciation for riffcraft. Tank Genocide is pretty much Apator-level bad.

Normally, I'd be glad to offer that kind of feedback, but we're talking about bands with a hundred demos. What's my advice going to be?

"Put the microphone in front of the thing making noise. Turn the volume down until the red light goes off."

"Try to play notes on the guitar at the same time as the drum machine."

"No, try harder."

This had me laughing very hard The thought of a bedroom black metal musician looking up at a more experienced producer with this look of bewilderment is just priceless. "But... but the red light makes it TRVE!"

Hahahahahahahaha

Legolas was at least lucky enough to have Orlando Bloom's face and not a troll doll's.

QTF Bro, this is a list of my favorite bands! But really, Tank Genocide is probably the trvest blackest metal band name i've ever heard! I clicked on the link to their second video while at work and immediately closed it and then got a dirty look from our interwebs security / activity monitor guy later. I must listen to the entire discography of all of these bands and all of their side projects to decide which one is teh kriegest

What's the problem with Drudkh? I only like the first álbum to be honest, but i thought they were more respected(at least in Europe) than this.

One person's opinion isn't really a representation of their general reception...?

Sometimes,yes.

lol, ok. You're missing the point entirely but if you want to be pedantic about it sure. Clearly what I'm saying is you can't possibly gather that kind of information from what he said. Whether they are or are not more respected (even in Europe) has nothing to do with what he thinks about that. so it was just a kind of odd question to be prompted to ask based on one man's thoughts.

Some of us are tastemakers, baby.

I use to stay away from these projects. A lot of them use to release 5 copies hidden in a wooden box cut with a chainsaw used in a midnight massacre when Darkthrone music was played very loud, hamburger and beer flied like UFOs, Satan was witnessing with delight and Lady Gaga's performing a porno act show. How about Drowning the Light? I own some of their music just to prove me a fake shithead, but their release list is countless and a lot of these of is purely insignificant. Something is good though, so I bought it, but just buying records for the sake of the name is a terrible way to push projects like these to release every kind of shit they sort out from their rehearsal rooms and makeof them collectionable pieces dumb people will pay whatever the price.

Drowning the Light is widely regarded as a good band. There's 50 reviews on MA and they are overwhelmingly positive. Same logic as excluding Moloch, Dhampyr, and Black Tribe from this poll - it's generally regarded as a respectable band. Both the best, and best received of all of those.

DTL is an odd band, as there are a ton of releases with countless influences involved which seem to be the reason the band is quite productive. There's a standard of quality - the worst DTL release is certainly better than the best Tank Genocide release. There's a lot more to be said of the good ones. Never achieved the greatness as some of their peers did, but still has a solid reputation.

Finally, it's odd that you mention the prices, since the majority of that catalogue remains in print and available for under $10, while remaining in demand enough to merit repressings when it sells out, and not reaching "bargain bin" status.

If you don't play technical progressive metal, why is it really necessary to wait years between releases? Burzum wrote four albums, one EP and half of two other albums (Daudi Baldrs and Belus in the space of two years, Ildjarn a gigantic body of work in a similar time frame, both bands are rightfully considered legendary. That's not to mention Death having a comparable rate of demos per year as many of the projects named in this thread.

For me and my massively inconsistent quality of releases it's simply that I do not like hoarding unreleased material, so I put it all up. It's like the life experiences that made you the person you are - some were good, some were bad, some were beautiful, some were ugly, some were exhilerating, some were excruciating, some were peaceful, some were painful, but they're all part of what made you who you are and are worthy of being experienced just for that.

These bands aren't hyper-prolific in terms of being "not slow" like say, '80s Iron Maiden who would put out a high-quality release every year, they will record and release every random musical fart they come up with. Some actual ability to edit and work on their shit for more than ten minutes would help them a lot. As would practicing. And having an original musical idea. And not using your music as a vehicle to disseminate Nazi propaganda in the case of Tank Genocide and some others.