This morning I was flipping TV channels, and I landed on some VH1 block of music videos. I was expecting to probably hear some 70s or 80s arena rock, but to my pleasant surprise, a video from Metallica's "...And Justice For All" tour was playing. The crowd seemed pretty big. It was a little fascinating from a historical perspective to be reacquainted with this phase of the band. They were still playing thrash, were still widely respected by heavy metal fans (as far as I can tell), but were in the final moments of that pre "sell-out" period.

Needless to say, this seems to have inspired within me a short-lived fascination with pre-"Black album" Metallica. I wasn't born yet, but I love history and hearing stories of things that happened before my time. So, I have a few questions.

1. How popular was Metallica during the 80s? Sometimes I get the feeling that they were on the limelight of mainstream, somewhat akin to metal-core bands today. Other times I get the impression that they were merely a band with a large underground following. I've heard that "One" was getting a lot of airtime on TV at the time, and just remembered the whole controversy over that song at the Grammys. I also remember my dad telling me that when he went camping with his friends in the 80s, he woke up to one of them playing "Master of Puppets" or something.

What was the general path of their rise? Did they increase in popularity with every album?

2. Were they still a widely-respected band among dedicated metal fans? Based on discussion and reviews here, some people claim that Metallica jumped ship with "MoP" or "Justice". The band itself has said some people were already crying "sell-out" by the time of Ride the Lightning.

3. Was there any indication at the time that Metallica would release the Black album and become more radio-friendly? Could anyone predict them turning into their current incarnation? I watched that video and kept thinking "they're still cool and have street cred at this point, but could anyone in this audience imagine what come in just a few short years?" Also, what was your reaction, and the reaction of your metal listening friends to the Black album and Metallica's rise to super-stardom in the 90s?

When I first got into Metal, Metallica blew me away. A friend of mine had Master Of Puppets on tape ripped from vinyl, the sound was crisp and clear and I'd never heard guitars like it. The songs went forever (in a good way) and seemed to blend into one another so that I couldn't really tell where one started and the last one ended. To me that was proper, underground, complete and utter metal. The Cliff thing happened when I got into metal around that time and I remember eagerly awaiting the Garage EP so that we could all hear that new bassist. And then the AJFA came out and again, blown away but somehow the sound was different, less full on or something.

Slight change, but an album that still had it's own merits, although a little inferior to the previous three.

When the Black Album came out, I hated it. Enter Sandman was all over the TV and I despised everything about it. Because it was successful, widespread, and accessable. Everyone knew it and that bothered me no end. Every other single that came out from that album was part of that newer more commercial Metallica and it was one of the most horrible things I ever had to deal with.

However, now, I hear the Black Album and I like it. Maybe I've become more lame in my old age, but compared to Reload and St Anger, the album is damn good.

Such a rollercoaster of emotions those lads have caused me :/

I was a teenager at the time, and I clearly remember the period up until the Black Album. Their popularity was huge among metalheads, but up until around "And Justice For All" they really weren't respected much by the mainstream. There was this huge divide, even among metalheads- there were those who liked traditional metal and glam rock but drew the line at Metallica (who were much heavier and more aggressive than most traditional metal at the time.) But you would never hear their music on the radio or on MTV- in fact their first official MTV clip video was "One." (keep in mind that Megadeth, Overkill, and Anthrax were already releasing MTV clips two years earlier.) Most mainstream 80's rock fans tended to shun Metallica as too noisy or extreme, due to the fact that 80's rock was typically defined by either keyboard-synth pop played by guys with moussed hair, or hard rock played by guys with slightly longer moussed hair. So, even though Metallica had this huge acclaim among more serious metal fans, the mainstream rock scene (i.e. the preppy, trendy Duran Duran/Wham/Cure fans and frat-boy Motley Crue fans) hated them- at least, it took quite a while for the mainstream to give them some kind of grudging respect.

I think that while most fans respected "Master of Puppets" and "And Justice for All" even though the latter, especially, was thought of as somewhat of a disappointment by many die hard Metallica fans, the widespread cries of "Sellout" really didn't peak until the black album. You could kind of see it coming. The announcement that Bob Rock would produce it- he was known more with his work with bands such as Motley Crue- and the fact that it took nearly three years to come out, really lowered a lot of expectations for it. Plus, the band was huge by then- admired by everyone (even by many of the preppy kids who had originally hated them.) So when it came out, it was not that unexpected that what we got was basically commercial hard rock and/or neutered watered down traditional metal, instead of the raw crunching thrash of the first three albums.

This.....makes me really sad to hear.

Metallica didn't have a video on MTV before One because Hetfield refused to do them before. He said they weren't a video band. Obviously, that would change.

Metallica was huge. They played stadiums here as early as 1986-87 Monsters of Rock. The Black album gave them a larger mainstream success.

But wasn't that opening for Van Hagar?

It doesn't matter. It meant they were playing in front of huge crowds. They were on a major label. I remember AJFA charted in the Billboard 200 for over a year straight. MoP charted in the top 30 too. This was no small band.

I actually remember looking up the billboard charts the week of my birthday and was shocked to see Ride The Lightning higher than Powerslave, the first WASP album and Shout At The Devil. (was born in early 85)

Here's an interview with Henry Rollins from 1985. He's asked something like "There's this new band from LA, Metallica. Have you heard of them?" and he replies "yeah, I heard one song, it didn't really do much for me." My guess is that if you were a metal or punk fan around 1985-6, Metallica would have at least been on your radar. You would have been aware that they existed.

RTL peaked at #100 on the Billboard 200 (probably a few thousand units sold) Throughout this period they were performing to huge crowds (like 70,000 people at Donington, 90,000 at Day of the Green), and touring internationally - though not as a headline act.

MOP charted at #26 on the Billboard 200 (probably high four digits or low five digits sold). From the RIAA's searchable database (http://www.riaa.com/), we can see that MOP was certified gold (500,000 units shipped) in November 1986. RTL went gold at around the same time. MOP went platinum (a million units shipped) in July 1988, AJFA went both gold and platinum in October 1988 (three months after its release - impressive), and from then on the certifications keep coming.

So the trajectory is that RTL got them attention and credibility within the metal scene, they started picking up momentum with MOP, and AJFA broke them wide open.

Obviously their massive mainstream (over)saturation in the 90s had some spillover effect for their older albums. RTL and MOP are 6x platinum apiece, and AJFA is 8x platinum, but that definitely wouldn't have happened without the Black album.



James Hetfield says they got some backlash based on "Fade to Black", but that might just have been one or two bitchy fans.

I don't think I've ever seen much large-scale criticism of those early albums, except on Metal Archives - and even then, it's not THAT large. The "MOP killed heavy metal" meme is basically the work of one reviewer.

Yeah you "probably a few thousand units" is a little off. Peaking at #29 meant more than "high four digits". This was 1986, people bought albums.

I agree with the last poster. Billboard ratings in the 80s meant a lot more than they do today. So, from the way you make it sound, AJFA made them a mainstream band?

Quite a few songs off their debut were fairly radio-friendly, and their second album has one song which is pretty overtly geared towards a radio-friendly style and form in "Escape." The next two albums had lengthier, more conceptually developed songs, but I don't think that element ever left their music. They were even on the leading edge of the rock music audience as a whole moving more towards the more percussive, yet polished style with longer songs that they did so well.

It seems like the relationship between metal and the mainstream was entirely different too. It was more acceptable in the metal community to have crossover appeal, and it was more acceptable in mainstream society to listen to "serious" metal. Queensryche got big enough that Robert Christgau of all people wrote a review of their EP, even if it was to shit on them. Who in the mainstream would even notice music like that today?

So even talking about "the mainstream" of the '80s in the same way we talk about it today might be anachronistic. The great metal crash of 1991 changed the metal scene so utterly as to be almost unrecognizable, and we are still living in the '90s in that regard--the "siege mentality" that spread among the remnants of metal in the '90s is still with us in full force. I don't really get the feeling that being "trve" was a all that serious a concern in the '80s.

There was definitely a division in some people's minds, even then... remember Paul Baloff's "kill the posers" speeches and all that. Obviously it wasn't as fragmented as now, you basically had the glam-rock crowd and the hardcore thrash/punk/crossover crowd hating each other and that was about as far as it went.

Yeah, you're probably right. We need better numbers. Does anyone know how many units MOP sold its first week?

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=wl ... 22&f=false

This book claims 250,000, but that sounds very implausible. 250,000 sales in one week yet it took another seven months to ship 500,000 copies?

Maybe 30-50k in its first week would be a more reasonable guess.



Which isn't surprising, Christgau was pretty down on metal. Surprisingly he was actually pretty well disposed to MOP: http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_arti ... =Metallica

Reign in Blood, too: http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_arti ... ame=Slayer

I think it is surprising that Christgau would notice Queensryche. Just the fact that he would even think about them, let alone dis their EP, says something about metal's relationship to mainstream music in the '80s as opposed to today.

Dunno really.

I first head "Ride..." in about 90. I only listened to that for awhile, until a mate gave me a mix tape with "The Wait" on it. After that it was working backwards to the earlier stuff. I used to watch the "Cliff 'em All" video tape a fair bit. I never really liked "And Justice..." (it was never a sell-out thing, it was just too dry) and I thought the black album was too slow, too boring and too rock.

But that was the early 90s, not the 80s, so I can't really answer properly.

His "favorite" metal band is Motorhead.

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?id=969&name=Motorhead

Hmm... Metallica was THE metal band on the 80's. Now, metal in general terms wasn't as widespread as today but Metallica was seen as the next Iron Maiden in terms of 'size/popularity'. The band was heavy enough to please thrashers but had the clean production, some slower tracks + a (kinda) better voice than most of thrash bands to please the more trad heavy metal/glam fanbase.

At the time of AJFA, Metallica was huge and really few people trashed the band. The One video brought some 'sellout' comments but since the song was heavy as hell, people was satisfied anyway. I don't remember people trashing the album per se, but most of us commenting the album were agreed that the 'filler' was more present, although there were some really good tracks (like One and Blackened). Since some songs were quite heavy and other slower than 'the norm' where were some doubts about what would come next. The video helped to consolidate their position as the biggest metal band at the time.

Then the S/T came and metal was never the same again.

I got into them just after MOP. Someone mentioned a divide earlier. I think yes there was a divide but it was more between 'hair metal' and thrashers. In my experience 'trad' metal people were friendlier with thrashers rather than the 'smokin' in the boys room' brigade (one of the main reasons Celtic Frost got such a panning for Cold Lake at the time). You would see plenty of Priest, Maiden, Sabbath shirts in amongst the thashers at thrash gigs along with Motorhead shirts and also a few punks and skaters.

Anyway, I was super excited for AJFA. I thought it was great, a lot 'drier' (one thing I really liked and still do about MOP is that production gave it a sort of 'atmosphere' that they hadn't really done before or since) and more moody and serious than MOP but still had a couple of straight bangers on it plus some decent listening from the structures. I played along with it a fair bit on my guitar, so I have to give it kudos (along with many other albums) for motivating me to teach myself. I didn't really think anything at the time regarding the lack of bass and I enjoyed and tried to imitate the 'scooped mid' sound on my basic set up and played covers of the songs in the garage band I was in with school friends - 'Harvester' was a solid favourite.

I saw them when they toured the album with Danzig opening and was blown away by the stage show - they pretended it was falling apart near the end. It was the first time I ever got drunk, I spewed during Danzig but that was no reflection on the set (I think some of the punters didn't really get him - maybe too dark and brooding for those who didn't know him and too bluesy and rocky for those that did but I was sold from day one). Good memories.

Right, the Black Album. Diet Metallica. Basically it annoyed the fuck out of me because it was quite obviously radio friendly. Caricature Metallica. And then of course loads of people who weren't into metal or music for that matter - casual listeners, started getting into them as if it was their first album. Thankfully I heard some of the album so I didn't need to buy it to find out.

Yes. 5150 tour, Hagar's first album with them. Saw The Scorpions, Dokken, and King Crimson too. My friends didn't even want to stay for all of VH's set, so we left. I always like to see Ed play though.

I was... 15 when MoP came out. Metallica was the shit then. Never heard them on the radio (not where I lived anyway), never saw them on MTV, so they still had that underground feel. MoP was my first Metallica album, then Kill 'em All, then RTL.

When Cliff died I was hugely disappointed because I hadn't seen them yet, so I never got the see Cliff play. I went out and got Cliff 'Em All on VHS (remember those?) instead.

I wouldn't have called Metallica huge though. They played for big audiences, yes, but I think mainly due to who they toured with. VH, Ozzy, etc. They started selling out arenas with AJFA, then started selling out period with the Black album. That ended my love affair with Metallica.

I really don't get how people perceive AJFA as being so much darker than MOP... MOP is still one hell of a serious album, aside from one song based on fiction (and some dark brooding horror fiction, at that), it's all pretty damn morbid and jaded. If anything AFJA is quirkier, with some off-the-wall choices like the backwards intro and pinching that "oh wee oh" bit from The Wizard of Oz, not to mention the Pushead cartoon "Hammer of Justice" and the amusing excuse for a "thanks list" in the liner notes

"Disposable Heroes" is a super-grim track. "Damage, Inc." is fucking crazy, too. Both are fantastic, though.

I agree with GtoG's coments above. We were both about the same age when "Master" came out, and that album was my first introduction to the band; I quickly got into the other two after that, and loved them. And I was disgusted with the Black Album, but didnt bother me that much, I had moved on to heavier/faster/more extreme music anyway by then.

Even if they were playing to big crowds then, the band was still underground in a sense that 1) they had far more of an edge and aggressive feel to their music than most bands did, and most people my age who heard them back then, thought it was too noisy for them to stomach. And 2) they got virtually no airplay at the time- not even "Fade to Black" or "Escape."

And yeah, the divide between glam/hard rock "posers" and "True" metalers/thrashers was a very real thing back then. Most Metallica fans were considered the "True" side of that divide. You'd wear a Ratt t-shirt to a thrash gig for example, and you risked getting fucked with, sometimes not in a friendly way either (alcohol and thrash brought out the worst in some people)- it was just how it was.

Heh. I remember in high school there was one sure way to tell - whether the metal shirts had tour dates on the back or not. Tour dates you got at the concert. No tour dates you got at the mall.

What? Man... What are you talking about? No comment...

Anyway good thread Regards .
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I get that sense too at times. Yet, it also seems at other times, based on the evidence I have, that at time that they were on the fringe of the mainstream, like many metal-core bands are today. What role did AJFA play in this? They went to the Grammys with that album. Doesn't a band have to have some mainstream respectability to even be considered for the Grammys?

Metallica had a huge jump in fans between Kill Em All and Ride The Lightning.

I grew up in New Jersey. Metallica moved here during the time they signed with Megaforce and were living and rehearsing in Metal Joe's basement in Old Bridge. Metallica wasn't expecting to be living in a basement and having someone's mom cook their meals, but that's what they got. Kids here in Jersey knew all about Metallica, if you were a burn out in your teens in New Jersey in 1983, you knew about Metallica. Not many other people were paying attention outside of the burn out crowd.

In Old Bridge you had the Metal Militia which was Metallica's street team. I grew up in New Brunswick. NJ and out in our area there was a clique of kids modeled after the Metal Militia called the Garage Crew which was basically a bunch of local burn outs who supported Metallica, Overkill, Metal Church, etc. Some of these guys also played in bands that would turn up as openers.

Metallica did a gig in 1983 at my friends Italian restaurant/night club opening for Motorhead in North Brunswick, NJ. This was smack dab between Philly and New York City. From there on word spread real fast around here.

Metallica held try outs here in Jersey for a lead vocalist. James wasn't totally confident about his voice so they were interested in getting a different front man. Another friend of mine actually showed up to the try out but didn't get a chance to perform with them. They had tried out John Bush from Armoured Saint and were so impressed with him that he ALMOST became Metallica's vocalist. Anyone else who showed up was sent home after him.

Growing up I was lucky to see the evolution of metal from my brother and sister and all their burn out friends. How heavy metal went from Zeppelin and Sabbath, to Van Halen and Priest, to Iron Maiden and Def Leppard (who were being promoted as the next Zeppelin), then Venom and Accept, right into Metallica basically taking over, becoming the ultimate metal band.

Before 1991, if you were a Metallica fan you were part of a large cult. There were definitley more Metallica fans than Mormons at that point. You were most likely a burn out or just a young kid getting his pubescent rage out. They got as big as they could playing to that crowd, won a Grammy, then decided it was time to try and pull in fans from other realms of hard rock to make more money. They saw their heros Def Leppard do it, and went the same way. Def Leppard was much bigger than Metallica, and I think that's who Metallica aimed to defeat in record sales.

They didn't become bigger than Priest or Maiden until the Black album, but they were the biggest metal band playing to the die hards for many years.

Yeah it's a good thing they didn't get Bush as vocalist. His voice was well suited for Armored Saint and he did an okay job on Sound of White Noise, but he would have fucking ruined Metallica.

Metallica had a huge jump in fans between Kill Em All and Ride The Lightning.

I grew up in New Jersey. Metallica moved here during the time they signed with Megaforce and were living and rehearsing in Metal Joe's basement in Old Bridge. Metallica wasn't expecting to be living in a basement and having someone's mom cook their meals, but that's what they got. Kids here in Jersey knew all about Metallica, if you were a burn out in your teens in New Jersey in 1983, you knew about Metallica. Not many other people were paying attention outside of the burn out crowd.

In Old Bridge you had the Metal Militia which was Metallica's street team. I grew up in New Brunswick. NJ and out in our area there was a clique of kids modeled after the Metal Militia called the Garage Crew which was basically a bunch of local burn outs who supported Metallica, Overkill, Metal Church, etc. Some of these guys also played in bands that would turn up as openers.

Metallica did a gig in 1983 at my friends Italian restaurant/night club opening for Motorhead in North Brunswick, NJ. This was smack dab between Philly and New York City. From there on word spread real fast around here.

Metallica held try outs here in Jersey for a lead vocalist. James wasn't totally confident about his voice so they were interested in getting a different front man. Another friend of mine actually showed up to the try out but didn't get a chance to perform with them. They had tried out John Bush from Armoured Saint and were so impressed with him that he ALMOST became Metallica's vocalist. Anyone else who showed up was sent home after him.

Growing up I was lucky to see the evolution of metal from my brother and sister and all their burn out friends. How heavy metal went from Zeppelin and Sabbath, to Van Halen and Priest, to Iron Maiden and Def Leppard (who were being promoted as the next Zeppelin), then Venom and Accept, right into Metallica basically taking over, becoming the ultimate metal band.

The key to their success was that they appeal to fans of more extreme metal like Mercyful Fate, Venom, Hellhammer as well as people into Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Scorpions. You also had many people from the punk and hardcore cliques that accepted Metallica, especially due to Pushead's ongoing support and promotion of the band.

Before 1991, if you were a Metallica fan you were part of a large cult. There were definitley more Metallica fans than Mormons at that point. You were most likely a burn out or just a young kid getting his pubescent rage out. They got as big as they could playing to that crowd, won a Grammy, then decided it was time to try and pull in fans from other realms of hard rock to make more money. They saw their heros Def Leppard do it, and went the same way. Def Leppard was much bigger than Metallica, and I think that's who Metallica aimed to defeat in record sales.

They didn't become bigger than Priest or Maiden until the Black album, but they were the biggest metal band playing to the die hards for many years.

That was an interesting story, thanks for sharing. I'm curious though, some of these bands you mentioned wouldn't be on the archives, would they? It would be interesting to find some of these historical connections.

I can only speak about the late 80s. I'm from a small town in a non-English speaking community, and at that day and age, trends and fashions usually arrived 6 months if not 1 year late.

When AJFA.. was the latest album, no one would say anything against Metallica. They owned the genre. They were, for anyone in my school, among normal people and jocks alike (everyone liked SOME metal; actually, people who were good at sports enjoyed metal because it was fast and was thought to require stamina and speed to play, just like sports), THE metal band. They had actually named themselves after the genre ! And they had none of the Satanic overtones that scared some people off. They were just perfect up there.

Sure, a good buddy of mine, who was the most knowledgeable of all school about metal, had some Sepultura albums (Morbid Visions, Schizophrenia) and likewise or heavier thrash bands, so we knew that there were heavier bands out there. But even we would never dare take the road, or even think about taking the road, of saying "Metallica are a bunch of wussies compared to Sepultura". We actually thought Metallica mastered the right proportions and contrasts. It would have been heresy to suggest that Metallica wasn't the best metal band ever.

When they played at the Grammy's, we felt like all of a sudden, "we" had a voice, "we" were recognized. We all thought the One video was deep, dark and artistically, conceptuallly, intellectually brilliant, never of it as a sellout or compromize - because the song was not conventional.

This all changed once the black album came out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hPdS97iA

Here's one haha. Remember, I said opening band.

At the 6:31 mark you can see some of the Garage Crew headbanging in front. They were basically like the Metal Militia out of Old Bridge, they made sure they showed up to concerts, headbanged hard for the bands, showed support, let bands party with them and sleep over. Moshing was a NY and Californian thing. Anthrax, Whiplash and Carnivore promoted moshing. Those bands had more ties to the hardcore thing. And the Cali bands like Slayer and Exodus as well. They grabbed from the hardcore. Anthrax used to actually play covers of hardcore bands songs in their rehearsals, and they even had shirts made early on with the NYHC logo on them. In New Jersey, moshing and slam dancing wasn't as common. More head banging, hair swinging, fist pumping haha. Kids were more into traditional heavy metal. Bands like Accept and Priest, less influence musically from New York, so less punk and hardcore.

These guys were playing as early as 84 with a different line up, then reformed a bunch of times with different kids. They were a frequent opener for Overkill. There were other bands around, Cactus Juice (more of a Sabbath 70's thing), TT Quick (Megaforce band), Blessed Death, Sacred Death, etc.

Cool video. It's interesting that you can see their basement jams at different periods. From 1986 to 1990 you can see the boys had grown up. That last scene with the guy driving away in his TransAm what was that all about? hehe. As for Metallica back in the 80's I can't really tell because my earliest memory of Metallica was around the release of The Black album. My friend older brother had bought the double tapes and lend it to me so I can make a rip on my tape deck From then I remember it was all about Metallica.Their music videos were constantly requested on Musique Plus (French speaking music video channel on cable tv.) kids that were not into rap were either in Metallica and you had to own a Metallica shirt or Megadeth (these were worn by the older mustached burnout guys ) or so it's how I remember it hehe I recall some older chick with GnR or Bon Jovi shirt but it was mostly Metallica. Then I got to rip the previous cassettes from Kill Em All to AJFA .I remember asking my dad if he could get me a Metallica shirt for my elementary prom.I was hopping for a previous album shirt like RTL or The metal up your ass shirt. He got me The Unforgiven shirt but it was all i needed to show around. Then later that fall of 91 i was invited to this kid house from one of my classes in high school we were playing NES and as I was leaving for supper time I was going through his cassettes when I saw this tape by a band I have never heard of before. This kid allowed me to bring it home to rip it.And so I did before bringing it right back to him as it was his recent gift he had from his single mom for his birthday. The tape was dubbed Nevermind. From then on music would change my life forever.

You can thank Sammy Hagar for New Jersey's love of the TransAm haha

That guy driving away at the end was Tommy, the guitarist. In the beginning he's the kid messing around on the drums. His dad actually played in a latter day incarnation of Vanilla Fudge.

Fatal Array formed in 1984, and actually had 2 older members who quit the band. One member went born again and became a priest of pastor or something. I remember him being the first guy we knew around the neighborhood who could play Van Halen's Eruption which was a big deal haha. Then the band continued on with varying lineups. They did a tour in 1991 with Overkill and Pro-Pain and then later came back with a different line up and different sound that reminded me of Pro-Pain/Pantera. I remember there was an after party after the tour at my house that my brother threw. Lots of cocaine and shenanigans haha. Everyone kept talking about how awesome Pro-Pain was (this was 1992).

There were other bands that came out of the Garage Crew but none of them really went that far. These were all kids into dirt bikes, motorcycles, cocaine, and heavy metal.

Wait a sec... your elementary prom was in June 1991; the black album wasn't out yet, and Unforgiven shirts did not exist yet.

@kalervon I am telling this as I can recall it. My elementary prom must have been in 1992.(that summer when the riot occurred at the stadium) My point is Metallica was a huge deal around that time and as music was changing around the early 90's they had along with other bands of different genre played a part at a time I was starting to listen to music.That being said I can personally say they are one of the reason I am still into metal to this day.

The short version is that Metallica received little to no media attention outside community/college radio, public access TV, and sparse coverage in mass print media. The song structure flew in the face of what commercial radio wanted, and they didn't make music videos. It was also a dramatically different world back then, and those alternative sources could, at times, have some clout and importance. Live performance was also more important back them IMO. For all the talk of how album sales tanking means bands are more dependent on touring, the costs involved with touring and the difficulties finding venues for this kind of music have, I believe, led to bands playing less than they did 30 years ago. I seriously doubt anyone in music except maybe Diplo is performing every 2 days on average like Black Flag averaged in 1984.

RE: Metallica's appearance on the Van Halen Monsters of Rock bill, here's a fun article from the time period that shows you some of the disconnect between rose colored glasses and archival documentation:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1988-0 ... s-monsters

TL;DR version is that the tour was a money loser and Metallica was in part blamed for that because they weren't terribly successful commercially and didn't fit in with the rest of the bands.

Dokken is "super-hard metal"? Huh. Anyway, I've heard that part of the reason for the failure of Monsters of Rock was that the promoters made the mistake of assuming that if an audience liked heavy music or hard rock, they'd like all of it. They overestimated the homogeneity of it. So instead of an audience staying for a whole show, there would be successive waves of people entering and leaving, seeing only the bands which interested them - which lead to sparsely attended shows, low sales of merchandise and food, etc.

Is the Fatal Array discussed here the same one listed on as this band?