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Smalley
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:07 am 
 

Obviously, by now, just about every "classic" record from the 90's and before has been canonized by the metal community as such, but right now, I'm more interested in figuring out which 2000-onward releases will be revered by future generations the same way we do, say, a Master Of Puppets, or a Reign In Blood, and why they'll end up that way. But, one thing that dissatisfies me sometimes when I read predictions for future classics (which I'd like to avoid in here) is an overload on too many specialized, semi-obscure records being listed, releases that don't seem to be heading towards being established as classic status, either now, or anytime soon.

Don't get me wrong, there are great underground records out there just as well as there are well-known releases, but when it comes to defining classics, you need a little bit more than just individual greatness, as hard as that sounds; you need to find records that made a certain, larger impact on the metal community, either in terms of how many people listened to (and cherished) the record in question, or how that record helped to establish or alter the directions of certain styles. That's the kind of criteria I'm looking for with this thread, and if this works out well, then I'm really looking forward towards reading everyone's choices for future classics, and especially look forward to reading their reasons why they choose this record or the other for classic-in-waiting status. Anyway, enough intro-ing already; let's see some suggestions!

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ENKC
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:27 am 
 

By your own definition, it's bordering on impossible to have a modern 'classic' metal album. How on Earth could a modern one have the impact of a Number of the Beast or a Morbid Tales? They can't have a broad impact on the future of genres which are already well established in the way that formative 70s/80s releases did, so it's no wonder the 'classics' of recent years are what you call 'specialized, semi-obscure records'. Specialised styles are the only area they can have a substantial and original influence in.
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Turner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:28 am 
 

a lot of people have talked about machine head's the blackening as a post-2000s classic. definitely not 'round these here parts, and i don't buy it (i thought it was boring, too long, and kinda soulless) but soon as you leave this corner of the web you'll find it.

i can think of a handful of post-2000 albums that i really enjoy, but i dunno if any of them will be remembered as classics. blackwater park, edguy's hellfire club, in flames' colony, moonsorrow's last 3 albums, dungeon's a rise to power, the first post-prison burzum album and soulfly's enslaved all come to mind, but you never know. a lot of what i like is largely considered rubbish, and a lot of what i dislike is largely considered classic. haha.

edit: this point has been covered before, but the core issue is that there'll probably be no more "holy shit, i had no idea they could do that!" moments, and pretty much all our canonised metal occurred within 2-3 years of one of those moments - just long enough to perfect a new sound. the sonic boundaries of the genre have been mostly explored, and save minor refinements here and there, there's no room to push the limit in the same way that for instance, in the space of 2-3 years it went from number of the beast to ride the lightning or the return. but i'm guessing they also said "it's all been done!" back in 1982 as well...

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teh_Foxx0rz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:18 am 
 

While (Euro) power metal stretches back to at least '87, it only had its explosion from '97, so many of its "classics" are since 2000. Hall of the Olden King and Gates of Oblivion by Dark Moor, Dawn of Victory is still in Rhapsody's "classic" period even if Symphonic of Enchanted Lands is "the" classic; Freedom Call's Crystal Empire and Eternity; Highlord's When the Aurora Falls; Celesty's Reign of Elements...

I get the impression that Brave New World is held up as a modern classic from Maiden as well; I know that it's both considered good and had a large influence on me and my peer group at school.

I feel the major obstacle for "classics", more than the idea that there won't be a "I had no idea they could do that!" album, is that there are ever more people into metal and ever more varieties to select amongst, so I think it's just that less and less people will...care about it. Power metal had its boom late enough for people to still be looking in kind of a vaguely similar general direction when all those albums came out and finding them all good and influential and definitive together; I believe that's what builds a "classic".

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LeMiserable
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:43 am 
 

Jane Doe?
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Last edited by Metantoine on Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At least post a metal album if you want to write a lazy post like this.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:11 am 
 

the first two albums that i thought of upon seeing the thread title were immolation's close to a world below and lykathea aflame's elvenefris, the latter of which obviously falls in the specialized semi-obscure category, while the former arguably already is a classic... i'd also nominate dead congregation's debut when sticking to the semi-obscure category

on the other hand i suppose some of the portal/dso type bands might have a chance of having one or more of their albums achieving classic status to some extent, tho' i'm not sure there's enough consensus as to which album(s) that might be
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jute
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:52 am 
 

I think Thorns - Thorns, released March 2001, is probably one of the earliest classics of the new millennium.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:16 am 
 

This thread will get derailed with people listing their favorite album of the 00's I'm pretty sure. They always do and people in general can't seem to separate their own taste from what they are meant to be presenting. With that said I'd like to contribute with 3 albums.

Machine Head - The Blackening. This album had a huge impact upon its release. It was praised most everywhere and while it wasn't rocket science or anything bland new there was a vitalization of the band and the style after this release. Many compared it to whichever Metallica album they thought was most impactful (generally MOP och s/t). Not in terms of musical style but in terms of impact.

Mastodon - Leviathan. I feel like this album had much of the same kind of impact as The Blackening did but this time what was presented was perhaps something newer in terms of style. It became the banner for the sludge/rock/prog movement.

Tool - Lateralus. I can't speak to much about the music since my Tool listening has almost only included 10,000 Days (for no particular reason - just haven't gotten around to the other stuff). This album is however very often listed as having a great impact on musicians and fans alike. And knowing Tool they definitely have their own style which is an achievement hard to reach in todays music business and to combine that with great success. Some say Tool is not a metal band and should thus be disqualified in this thread. I always saw them as a metal band but if others feel differently then so be it.

An inclusion from Opeth's discography is probably in place as well. The album most frequently mentioned seems to be Blackwater Park but I feel a little bit out of touch with this band so I'll leave others to judge if its a worthy candidate.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:22 am 
 

teh_Foxx0rz wrote:
I feel the major obstacle for "classics", more than the idea that there won't be a "I had no idea they could do that!" album, is that there are ever more people into metal and ever more varieties to select amongst, so I think it's just that less and less people will...care about it. Power metal had its boom late enough for people to still be looking in kind of a vaguely similar general direction when all those albums came out and finding them all good and influential and definitive together; I believe that's what builds a "classic".


While I don't personally care for some lauded albums, this is very true and the only real mark of a 'classic' in the end, which can only be told by time. These threads are tough because it's mostly just people listing albums they love, and history and entertainment in the past has proved that it's impossible to determine what really becomes a classic and what is just a "lost gem" of sorts. I love a bunch of albums in recent years to pieces, just as much as 80s metal classics, but I can't say for sure yet whether they'll be remembered as genre classics.

The Internet has also made things simultaneously more widespread (allowing for more nuanced and underground albums to get discovered) and more jaded - we no longer are all that surprised at new stuff, since we constantly can check out anything we want. It's near impossible for something to shake the foundations of the scene the way Ride the Lightning, Piece of Mind or Painkiller did back in the day, because of all the accumulated knowledge and varieties of bands everyone knows now. The fact that everyone is so divided into genres now doesn't help either - instead we just get a bunch of albums highly praised in individual genres, but not always having a broad appeal.
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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:00 am 
 

there's also the problem of where to draw the line between classic or not - everyone will surely agree that reign in blood counts, but what about left hand path, none so vile or timeghoul's demos?
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:03 am 
 

Turner wrote:
post-2000 album, in flames' colony

May 1999.

A contribution to the thread:
Primordial - The Gathering Wilderness or To The Nameless Dead. These two are the groundbreakers, only time will tell which one will be remembered as the highlight of their career, if not both. I'd put my money on the Gathering Wilderness, just because I like it better.
Also, though it may be too early, Kvelertak's debut might well be a tomorrow's classic. It created a decent hype and an original sound.

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:07 pm 
 

I feel like there are two ways to identify classics. One would be looking at albums that defined a sound and created a movement, the other would be identifying albums that are so unique and powerful that no other band could even come close to recreating the sound.

There may not have been much I know of that falls into the former category since the turn of the millenium, but Enslaved's Below The Lights most definitely falls into the latter. Even if it were released today it would sound incredibly original and unfuckingtouchable.
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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:34 pm 
 

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
Also, though it may be too early, Kvelertak's debut might well be a tomorrow's classic. It created a decent hype and an original sound.


i almost mentioned that one in my post as well - and would have some time ago, but interest seems to have dwindled and i haven't seen/heard people mentioning them in a long while... probably largely because the sophomore wasn't nearly as good
i'm also surprised by the lack of imitators which i assumed would have followed the hype created at the time
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:36 pm 
 

If this is 2000- onwards, then we have some already classic albums.

Probably Deathspell Omega's SMRC - if it's not already hailed as one.

I think there are a lot of candidates of potential classics like:

Celtic Frost - Monotheist. Behemoth of an album and perfect way to end a career.

Satan - Life Sentence. It sounds classic already. Same for Hell - Human Remains.

Behemoth - Zos Kia Kultus/Demigod. Not much explanation needed.

Vital Remains - Dechristianize. Brutal as fuck with top notch performances. It made an impact when it was released.

Heaven and Hell - The Devil You Know. Dio's Last stand will reach the heavens.

Rotting Christ - Theogonia. Perfect album with the right dose of mythological feeling.

Absu - Tara. It is already a landmark of the genre.

Arghoslent - Incorrigible Bigotry and Hornets of the Pogrom. Both albums are flawless executions of melodic death metak with perfect riffing, violent pace and epic atmosphere.

Nokturnal Mortum - The Voice of Steel. Again, epic and flawless album.

Deicide - The Stench of Redemption. One of the greatest comebacks from a forefather of death metal.

I bet Alcest' discography as a whole is or will count as classic. Same for Lantlos - .neon.

Empyrium - Weiland. Best neoclassic album ever coming from a metal band. Perfect piece of art.

Arcturus - The Sham Mirrors. The spacey atmosphere, the top notch songwriting, performance to the novelty of sound makes it a total avantgarde classic.

Triptykon - Eparistera Daimones. A giant of an album from one of the most legendary metal musicians ever. Impossibly heavy.

Dead Congregation - Graves of the Archangels. OSDM done to perfection; ominous atmosphere, brutal, evil... Like the 2000's Onward to Golgotha (keeping some proportions).

In the same way, Disma - Towards the Megalith will be hailed as a classic. Pillard's vocals are enough to put it above most of OSDM revival bands, but it also it's heavy and damn crushing.

There are a lot more, like My Dying Bride's Dreadful Hours, Evoken's Antithesis of Light, Taake's Over Bjoervin...; Sanguis Imperem' debut, Arch/Matheos - Sympathetic Resonance, Arckanum's ppppppppp.... All of them deserve full paragraphs of praise.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:54 pm 
 

Kveldulfr

I don't agree on most of that list (even though some of the albums really are amazing). However I wouldnt find it very strange if something by Deathspell Omega could come to be regarded as a black metal classic. I haven't been listening to the band all that much but their impact seems to have been pretty huge and they introduced us to a new kind of approach to black metal.

You also mention Alcest and I think its a good choice. At least one album will become the one to define the post rock/shoegaze/black metal movement. That album might be Écailles de lune.

joppek wrote:
Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
Also, though it may be too early, Kvelertak's debut might well be a tomorrow's classic. It created a decent hype and an original sound.


i almost mentioned that one in my post as well - and would have some time ago, but interest seems to have dwindled and i haven't seen/heard people mentioning them in a long while... probably largely because the sophomore wasn't nearly as good
i'm also surprised by the lack of imitators which i assumed would have followed the hype created at the time



A not important facor in how we remember influential albums is what happened to the band after its release. I think few classic albums are remembered if that was the bands only achievement. I also remember people being super high on Kvelertak but that everything seemed to die down with the sophomore. That is not to say they can't get abck in the saddle but if they don't perhaps the debut wont be regarded as highly as it would if they could ride the wave it created.

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t1337Dude
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:30 pm 
 

Defeated Sanity's "Psalms of the Moribund".

Probably an extremely debatable choice because it's perhaps slightly obscure and a very niche album, but I firmly believe this album already has had and will have a lasting impact on brutal death metal for a long time to come. For lack of better reasoning I simply can't imagine this album being glanced over in the future.

It's easy to say that Defeated Sanity hasn't been around long enough or isn't well known enough to have a significant impact on the metal scene, but as far as I'm aware, most fans of brutal death metal consider the album to be one of the crowning jewel's of the genre, and I can't help but agree. These guys have taken brutal death metal by storm and left a progressive mark on the genre - I can't help but feel like Psalm's is like the post-millennium version of Suffocation's Effigy of the Forgotten. Suffocation innovated death metal with that release, and I almost feel the same way with "Psalms".

Plus, the last half of the title track slays just about anything I've ever heard. The amount of vitality in the music feels practically unmatched...makes a lot of other death metal bands sound "tired" in comparison.


Last edited by t1337Dude on Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjollnir
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:42 pm 
 

There are a lot of albums that came out post 2000 that could be considered classics. I guess this is along the lines of those that think metal is either getting stale or dying out. It's actually getting better IMO.

Darkened Nocturnal Slaughtercult - Nocturnal March
This album is amazing black metal from beginning to end. This is black metal the way it's supposed to be done.

Moonsorrow - Kivenkantaja
One of the greatest metal albums ever released. This album takes epic metal to a new level.

Borknagar - Empiricism
Another album that transcends genres to create an atmosphere and a sound that is truly amazing.

Atlantean Kodex - The White Goddess
This is an instant classic. This album will define metal for the years to come. In twenty years, this album will be looked back on as a major album for metal.

Argus - Beyond the Martyrs
See what I said about Atlantean Kodex. Same applies.

Hoth - Oathbreaker
This is an amazing album that can stand next to any album already deemed classic.

Noble Beast - Noble Beast
That's right, I'm on about them again. Well that's because they are fucking amazing and their debut is awesome. Great song writing and amazing musicianship.

There are many more. Those were just some examples to show that classics are being made post millennium.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:19 pm 
 

There are certainly some highly influential albums with a notable impact that are generally regarded as among the best by fans of the style. In Flames' Clayman, Killswitch Engage's Alive or Just Breathing, Lamb of God's As the Palaces Burn. All three were huge steps in their styles and were the jumping off point for bands who are very influential. The popularity of these prominent artists also shadowed genre-pieces - they helped carry similar and related bands who didn't have albums of the same quality. In Flames had Soilwork in their shadow, who had Scar Symmetry in their shadow, who all had Sonic Syndicate in their shadow. The followers there couldn't ride the wave of popularity out smoothly, and are clearly second and third rate bands. This is especially notable with bands in more popular styles. The influence is still felt though - the impact of the three bands mentioned above is still clearly felt in a lot of music 10-15 years later, even as these bands evolve/change/decline.

The same sort of widespread impact isn't necessarily felt in more reclusive, underground styles though. Often, there isn't quite the same floodgate album, and the rise is more spread out across a few albums with an evolution of style. Examples would be High on Fire, Baroness, and Xasthur. There's a thousand stoner/sludge/doom bands on the path carved by High on Fire, a ton of Mastodon-lite sludge/rock bands in the vein of Baroness, and based on the DIR catalogue and the band queue, 15000 shitty bedroom black metal bands who are even shittier than Xasthur.

Then there are the genre-pieces. Stuff that doesn't have the same out-of-genre appeal as say, Master of Puppets, but even more appeal to a die-hard fan of the genre, like Darkness Descends. This is where I'd put stuff like the Arghoslent albums Kveldulfr mentioned. The other type of genre-piece is sometimes slower-received, a sort of influential mile-marker that impacted bands who became the icons. This is a bit of a broader category, so you get ultra-niche cult stuff like NME, something moderately renowned like Silencer, and a rare case like Voivod where their reputation and quality followed them for so long that they became very well recognized in their own right, even if their early stuff was very marginally popular when it came out. I guess Voivod are like Bathory in that regard - cult favorites in the 80s who didn't have commercial success back then, who were a step ahead of their time, but are now almost infinitely hailed as the music they inspired becomes prominent.

Those things being said, I'd say there are some undisputed classics of the metalcore/melogroove/modern melodeath style.

In Flames - Clayman (2000)
Killswitch Engage - Alive or Just Breathing (2002)
Lamb of God - As the Palaces Burn (2003)
Darkest Hour - Undoing Ruin (2005)

Leaning towards the more metal side, I'd note Children of Bodom's Follow the Reaper and Dark Tranquillity's Damage Done.

A step below, the genre-pieces/personal favorites (in general, not mine) would be All That Remains' The Fall of Ideals, Shadows Fall's The War Within, Unearth's III: In the Eyes of Fire, The Haunted's rEVOLVEr, As I Lay Dying's Shadows Are Security, God Forbid's IV: Constitution of Treason, Chimaira's The Impossibility of Reason, and probably something by Trivium, because someone's gotta sound like a heavier A7X/BFMV. This is the sort of stuff that you call a first-tier classic when you have a tier above first, because you don't want to call it second-tier. I call that Dark Angel Complex.

Other genres? I'll get to those.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:20 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
Celtic Frost - Monotheist


can't believe i forgot that - definitely high up the list of classic candidates (if indeed it shouldn't already be thought of as one)
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:22 pm 
 

mjollnir wrote:
There are a lot of albums that came out post 2000 that could be considered classics. I guess this is along the lines of those that think metal is either getting stale or dying out. It's actually getting better IMO.

Darkened Nocturnal Slaughtercult - Nocturnal March
This album is amazing black metal from beginning to end. This is black metal the way it's supposed to be done.

Moonsorrow - Kivenkantaja
One of the greatest metal albums ever released. This album takes epic metal to a new level.

Borknagar - Empiricism
Another album that transcends genres to create an atmosphere and a sound that is truly amazing.

Atlantean Kodex - The White Goddess
This is an instant classic. This album will define metal for the years to come. In twenty years, this album will be looked back on as a major album for metal.

Argus - Beyond the Martyrs
See what I said about Atlantean Kodex. Same applies.

Hoth - Oathbreaker
This is an amazing album that can stand next to any album already deemed classic.

Noble Beast - Noble Beast
That's right, I'm on about them again. Well that's because they are fucking amazing and their debut is awesome. Great song writing and amazing musicianship.

There are many more. Those were just some examples to show that classics are being made post millennium.

0 % classic potential at this day and age.
Don't get me wrong, I like almost all of them. They're just not all that special, nor did they create any kind of buzz of a larger scale.
DNS is a fine band but they are totally on the safe zone of the genre, and not a whole lot of people even know them.
If a Moonsorrow album is deemed a classic in the future, I'm almost certain it will be Verisäkeet. It was their real commercial breakthrough and most appreciated by media.

The rest, all right but not much of an impact.
I do think, however, that Atlantean Kodex has an album up their sleeve that will gain a classic status and blow everyone away. It's not The White Goddess though.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:26 pm 
 

The White Goddess is up there with the best metal albums of any genre in the last 3-4 years. Time will tell if it's actually a "classic" so far as renown and influence goes, but it's close to perfect in my books. Just an impeccably done work of art.
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:30 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
The White Goddess is up there with the best metal albums of any genre in the last 3-4 years. Time will tell if it's actually a "classic" so far as renown and influence goes, but it's close to perfect in my books. Just an impeccably done work of art.

I do like it, but it didn't create waves. I think they can up the ante to a point where they get recognized worldwide, as a result of a sensational recording.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:32 pm 
 

I really hope so. I feel like when a band of their genre/style "makes waves" they tend to lose a bit of the artistry and become slightly less dense...but hopefully AK will avoid that pitfall!
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:39 pm 
 

Hoth and Noble Beast? I think you misunderstood classic albums as personal classic albums, Mjollnir. Both bands doesn't fit the criterias to become full fledged classics at all, they're both not very original and lack memorability. It's pretty hard to predict stuff that will become cult classics but these clearly won't be.

While I love Atlantean Kodex a lot, I'm not sure where you're going with "This album will define metal for the years to come." at all, I mean, I would like it to be the case but epic heavy/doom will remain a sort of fringe genre. Definitely a classic of its genre, that's for sure but you're perhaps overstating their place and influence.

There's many things to consider before labeling an album a "classic". First of all, it needs to be a relatively popular album by metal standards, we're not speaking of cult classics here. Secondly, it needs to be influential and probably defies the limits of its era. Mastodon's Leviathan and Opeth's Blackwater Park, both albums are praised by both metal medias and non metal medias and they're by widely popular bands who will surely be remembered in 10-20 years. Reverend Bizarre 's debut In the Rectory (2002) is also pretty much considered a classic modern doom album. Another classic would be Sigh's Imaginary Sonicscape (I know I gave this a 100%) but it fits all the guidelines I thought of.

Some albums I'd like to become classics:
-In Solitude's Sister is pretty damn original and they have the talent to make it really big in my opinion, I think their next albums will cement their classic status.
-Darkthrone's Circle the Wagons Already a classic band of course but I do think that their heavy/punk/thrash/whatever material is as strong as their black metal albums
-Some others I can't think of right now.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:42 pm 
 

Isn't "Tempo of the Damned" lauded as the album that brought thrash back for the 2000s?
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Twin_guitar_attack
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:42 pm 
 

I think maybe The Codex Necro will be hailed as one for extreme music. I mean the thing just takes extreme music and puts it up another notch.

Drudkh's Autumn Aurora is probably still the best atmosmpheric metal album of the century so far, and one of the most famous bands in a revived style. Negura Bunget's Om is pretty much universally regarded as brilliant too.

Need I say more than the simple word Dopethrone? How many shitty stoner bands have tried and failed to recreate that monolithic album?

And speaking of Monolithic, how about Sunn O)))'s Monoliths and Dimensions? One of the first drone metal releases to really push it's way into more of a mainstream conciousness.

And Alcest's Souvenirs was instrumental in the whole blackgaze scene we have now, and whether you like it or not it's becoming big in both metal and indie circles. And judging by that maybe Sunbather by Deafheaven? The amount of hype that's gotten hasn't really died down and a year has passed.

Admittedly none of these is going to have the real mainstream conciousness shifting effect that Iron Maiden, Metallica and Slayer have had, the average person won't have heard of many of these, but the impact they've had within their scenes can't really be overstated.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:02 pm 
 

Classics that I agree on that have been posted:

Converge - Jane Doe (2001)
I don't even know how to describe it. There are so many aspects woven together perfectly that I hear fragments of and overt homages to in other music: the rhythmic insanity, the use of dissonance in their furious blasts of chaotic energy that took hardcore to a different place, the atmospheric element present throughout (especially the title track) while remaining chaotic, complex, and dissonant.

Deathspell Omega - SMRC (2004)
I don't like it at all, but it's well regarded and influential. It's weird avant-garde/dissonant/technical black metal that sounds like The Dillinger Escape Plan's Calculating Infinity plus Gorguts' Obscura in black metal form. This somewhat paved the way for the third wave of too-serious [orthodox] black metal, some modern tech-death, and post-black metal like Deafheaven and Liturgy. It even influenced some enjoyable bands like Nightbringer.

Vital Remains - Dechristianize (2003)
This is an interesting one to examine. The band has been around for 15 years, had four well-regarded albums, and was a fairly well-established death metal band. They were huge from roughly 2003-2007/08, then they dropped off the face of the earth. No releases since 2007 and complete lineup turnover except perhaps the least notable of the trio on Dechristianize. This was pretty much the holy grail of early 2000s death metal though. Old names like Deicide and Morbid Angel were somewhat loyal to their old ways, to some extent, and those early albums couldn't be matched. Vital Remains took what those bands were doing at the time and took it a step further. They took the voice of death metal, Glen Benton, and had him overdo his thing, all the time. His voice was deeper, often layered, and had a newer kind of ferocity that was sorely lacking on the previous two Deicide albums. The drums were stupid fast. The leads were overt and neoclassical. The songs were really long. It picked up where death metal had trailed off in the late 90s and shamelessly took it to a new level of absurdity. I think this also paved the way for Behemoth's Demigod - overdone studio death metal that accentuated some outward tendencies of death metal while leaving behind some grotesque aural aesthetics that had shaped the oldschool death metal sound.

Behemoth - Demigod (2004)
Sounds absolutely massive, the overproduced, layered sound with simple but big riffs is one of the hallmarks of modern black/death metal.

Opeth - Blackwater Park (2001)
I'll let Tony talk about this one.

One more:
Pig Destroyer - Prowler in the Yard
Furious and violent grindcore with a concept that was explored through both traditional short blasts of grinding and sludge-influenced longer songs that trailed into more atmospheric stuff towards the end.

Non-classics that I strongly disagree on:

Machine Head - The Blackening
I don't get it. I mean, I kind of get it: big label advertising budget behind a mallcore band who mixed up their shitty nu-metal+Pantera worship style with Trivium's lousy melodic heavy/thrash stuff. Extended melodic noodling guitar solos sandwiched between two metalcore/mallcore songs. Pretty much appeals exclusively to people who mourned the loss of Ozzfest.

Electric Wizard - Dopethrone
Farting guitars drawn out for braindead stoners with the attention span of a goldfish. Tone-basking with a shitty tone. Yeah, a ton of bands have imitated it, and every one of them sucks.

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Desperta_Ferro
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:05 pm 
 

Defenders of the Crown, the Human Fortress one, was released in 2003. And that album is perfect. Funny thing, I just can't shut up about it, it's has been like seven years from the first time I listened to it.

Also, everything Avantasia has done is post-2000.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:10 pm 
 

Desperta_Ferro wrote:
Also, everything Avantasia has done is post-2000.


But why do you think it's classic? It's the most unnatural, overpolished fairy metal that has absolutely none of the energy of heavy metal nor grace of power metal. It's like someone took all the speed and energy out of Helloween and threw layers of shitty synths at it.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:12 pm 
 

Even if it isn't classic, new Avantasia is awesome. Lots of energy, hooks, etc. Just fun, bombastic music with a ton of great guest performers. Energy and grace are pretty superfluous terms and I hear plenty of both in The Scarecrow especially. It's more of a melodic rock opera thing though, with only select songs really being metal.

The three after that, eh, not so perfect, but tons of great, fun sing-along tunes and a few that are really spectacular.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:14 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
Kveldulfr

I don't agree on most of that list (even though some of the albums really are amazing). However I wouldnt find it very strange if something by Deathspell Omega could come to be regarded as a black metal classic. I haven't been listening to the band all that much but their impact seems to have been pretty huge and they introduced us to a new kind of approach to black metal.

You also mention Alcest and I think its a good choice. At least one album will become the one to define the post rock/shoegaze/black metal movement. That album might be Écailles de lune.



I don't think we'll get another MoP in terms of impact, so I focused on albums that will be highly regarded in the future as the highlights of the decade.or.classics within their genres. Monotheist IS a classic but it didn't spawn much imitators, it's just too damn good. That's why I named Tara, cause it's a classic already and its regard will only go higher over time.

Even so, in terms of influence, the debut of Alcest should be a runner up more than Ecailles (which for me is superior) since it was THE album that put the metal shoegaze into the map. That Arcturus album was a huge influence to a/v bands like Vulture Industries and Trascending Bizarre, besides it still sounds fresh. That DsO album made a huge impact
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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:15 pm 
 

DsO will definitely be a landmark - that was a giant leap for black metal...
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:18 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Electric Wizard - Dopethrone
Farting guitars drawn out for braindead stoners with the attention span of a goldfish. Tone-basking with a shitty tone. Yeah, a ton of bands have imitated it, and every one of them sucks.


Ah come on, saying Dopethrone isn't a classic is factually incorrect (that's like saying Sleep's Dopesmoker isn't one). There's tons of bands inspired by this album (Monolord, The Wounded Kings or Windhand) and it remains one of the most important release in doom/stoner history. Your opinion on their music is irrelevant, the album art is also almost a symbol nowadays. Remain in your element, giant!
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Smoking_Gnu
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:26 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
Even so, in terms of influence, the debut of Alcest should be a runner up more than Ecailles (which for me is superior) since it was THE album that put the metal shoegaze into the map. That Arcturus album was a huge influence to a/v bands like Vulture Industries and Trascending Bizarre, besides it still sounds fresh. That DsO album made a huge impact


If we're talking Arcturus (you're referring to the poster who referenced The Sham Mirrors, correct?), I feel like La Masquerade Infernale was a much heavier influence on VI and TB, alongside all the similarly styled bands that used that theatrical vaudeville sound. The Sham Mirrors had a lot more of a traditional symphonic bent with the exception of "Ad Absurdum."
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:57 pm 
 

Forgot Portal - Seepia. It's the SMRC of death metal and Portal as a whole has been huge in terms of influence. They're even older than DsO.

About The Sham Mirrors, it has a rhythmic quality that has been imitated. The riffing and rhythm of the keys can be heard in albums like Dystopia Journals in plenty (Soulcage is a blatant copy of Ad absurdum and Pills of Conformity is the lost twin of Kinetic), Unexpect's both albums, The 4 scissors and even Dimmu Borgir's ISB (especially the tracks where Vortex sings; The Invaluable Darkness key intro is pure Arcturus worship). I agree that LMI was more impactful but hell, TSM also was.
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omnishadow
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:08 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
In Flames - Clayman (2000)
Killswitch Engage - Alive or Just Breathing (2002)
Lamb of God - As the Palaces Burn (2003)
Darkest Hour - Undoing Ruin (2005)

Leaning towards the more metal side, I'd note Children of Bodom's Follow the Reaper and Dark Tranquillity's Damage Done.

Follow the Reaper, and even Hatebreeder truly deserves to be a classic album. It holds all the criterias: influenced a large amount of bands, established a new point of view in melodeath and heavily impacted the whole subgenre. And I believe that the majority people have heard the band's name sometime.

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InnesI
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:41 pm 
 

I think both Lamb of God's As the Palaces Burn and Children of Bodom's Follow the Reaper are perfectly fine candidates. And I say this as a non-fan of both bands. I remember both at their release and I've seen the hype and heard the influence on many bands. Both seemed to open new doors and claim new land.

Furthermore I find the mentions of Anaal Nathrakh's The Codex Necro and Vital Remains Dechristianize to be interesting. The Codex Necro isnt my favorite album by them but it is clearly the one that spawned most interest and hype in the way we seek for a future genre classic. Dechristianize also had a great impact when it was released but I do feel that it has fallen in regard since then. For me it certainly has, I rarely go back to this album, but I feel it is a general trend as well.

I also just remembered Necrophagist's Onset Putrefaction. I may be deluded with this one since it was a heavy favorite at another online community where I was active a few years ago but I feel it at least had the same status as the before mentioned Dechristianize. And they do act in the same territory so to speak. I personally think Epitaph is far superior but many seem to really love the debut and Muhammeds style seems to have influenced a whole genre of bands.

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Headless420
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:42 pm 
 

Both Negative Plane full lengths in my opinion. The combination of Italian occult doom and black metal is near perfect. they are innovators if you ask me.

Although the first album has an obvious Celtic Frost influence, you'd be hard pressed to find another band that sounds very similar especially on the Stained Glass Revelations.

Blut Aus Nord's "In Memoria Vetusta II" is also a modern classic that I believe will attain legendary status for future generations.

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Intraum
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:39 pm 
 

Converge - Jane Doe
Opeth - Blackwater Park
Mastodon - Remission or Leviathan depending on who you talk to
Pig Destroyer - Prowler in the Yard
Isis - Oceanic
Discordance Axis - The Inalienable Dreamless
Thorns - Thorns
Electric Wizard - Dopethrone

Those are just some of the obvious ones off the top of my head. Just reading around on the internet, these seem to be the albums I read a lot of people praising. I'm probably forgetting some other obvious ones like something by Meshuggah, but I don't know what the general consensus is regarding their albums even though their influence is undeniable throughout the 2000's with younger musicians.

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SoundsofDecay
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:59 pm 
 

Intraum wrote:
something by Meshuggah

Nothing

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