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adace
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:30 pm
Posts: 246
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:28 pm 
 

This album is great. I like it better than the debut.

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Riffs
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:34 pm 
 

I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be around here but, to tell the truth... I'm glad the MA crowd prefers other kinds of doom over this because so do I. I find better recommendations this way.

FWIW, I like it better than the previous record.

Regarding people leaving shows... people shouldn't kid themselves and think that's a "hipster problem". We're just as likely to avoid hipster bands as they are likely to avoid metal bands.

Mismatched lineups are one of the bane of concert promotions. It's tough pleasing everybody.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:53 pm 
 

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/195 ... of-burden/

Pitchfork hates metal.
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CF_Mono
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:35 am 
 

Metantoine wrote:
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19570-pallbearer-foundations-of-burden/

Pitchfork hates metal.

No surprises here. That was pretty well written though.
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Jonpo
Hypercolombowler

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:01 am 
 

I wish I could explain to this band that if you make doom and Antoine thinks you're complete shit, you are COMPLETE shit.
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:03 am 
 

Metantoine wrote:
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19570-pallbearer-foundations-of-burden/

Pitchfork hates metal.


Ah! That probably explains why my hipster friend had Pallbearer (the previous album) playing in his car for me a few days ago !

When he said "I've got some doom for you" I thought it was really strange, because that's just not his style. But Pitchfork's approval is a major incentive for some people.
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mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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putrenista
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:17 am
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:33 pm 
 

Honestly, the artwork reminds me a bit of Saint Vitus...

Image

Image


I can't offer much opinion on them musically because I haven't listened to the album yet. I did, however, check out that new song and while I can't say I was impressed, I wasn't offended either. It didn't really sound "happy" or overtly emo or anything to my ears. I don't see why people get so upset with one little band trying to write some different sounding music. As far as I can tell it's the media coverage that maybe you should take issue with in terms of painting them out to be revolutionary or so called saviors of doom metal. But then again I haven't been reading any interviews with the band. Can anyone point out some glaring example of Pallbearer spouting some pretentious dialogue in the vein of Liturgy? I'll try and check out the album soon and maybe report back with what I think after a full listen.

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godsonsafari
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am
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Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:46 pm 
 

If this is what hipster metal is going to be and being a "real metal fan" means I have to pretend to care about Jag Panzer or something, I guess you'll find me at Whole Foods rocking tiny pants then.
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ThePoop
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:38 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:05 am 
 

Pallbearer is not hipster metal. They're post-hipster doomgaze.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:24 am 
 

Pallbearer don't suck because Pitchfork likes them. They just make unbelievably boring music. I never made it through the debut once. I just couldn't stomach it.
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godsonsafari
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:27 am 
 

"doomgaze"? This is a thing? Does it involve pretending that traditional doom metal has never featured psychedelic rock influences? :lol:

Nothing about them is innovative, but then I've said that about every metal band that's come down the 'pike in the last 10+ years. I'd rather have this than another unlistenable, riffless mess of a BAN or Mitochondrion record.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:53 am 
 

I gotta say man, I don't understand these bands you keep tossing out. Is it Jag Panzer or Pallbearer? Blut Aus Nord or Pallbearer?

Fuck that, it's The Wizar'ds most recent offering which is short, chock full of amazing riffs and nefarious atmosphere or Pallbearer, for me. Or I could just listen to Friends of Hell for the millionth time. Basically any good doom, vs Pallbearer, they lose every time.
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godsonsafari
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:37 am 
 

Quote:
I gotta say man, I don't understand these bands you keep tossing out. Is it Jag Panzer or Pallbearer? Blut Aus Nord or Pallbearer?


Any "true" metal band I find boring and/or useless but which generally escapes large scale criticism vs. Pallbearer. I don't entirely dispute the value of talking about authenticity in music, but the genre of metal is home to all sorts of hilarious examples of cultural appropriation across generations and borders which have been lauded as strengths. What Pallbearer is doing is more legitimate in my mind then a bunch of teenagers buying BKs and denim jackets to go along with their Forbidden worship.

Quote:
Fuck that, it's The Wizar'ds most recent offering which is short, chock full of amazing riffs and nefarious atmosphere or Pallbearer, for me. Or I could just listen to Friends of Hell for the millionth time. Basically any good doom, vs Pallbearer, they lose every time.


That's fine. I'd rather listen to them than Witchfinder General (oh noez!). I'm not going to argue re: The Wizar'd because if I listened to them, it was years ago and they were totally forgettable then.
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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:39 am 
 

WHAT. You cis-scum.

Wizar'd is the shizzle. Got their live tape awhile back and it slayed everything.
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Abominatrix
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:46 pm 
 

As I said, I found the first album to be reasonably good on a single listen, back when they were supposed to play here with Enslaved. Thought I'd investigate so I could be partially familiar with them at least. It turned out that the show didn't happen and I never revisited the album.

Anyway, there's a lot of hyperbolic reaction on all sides, and it's got nothing to do with Pallbearer per se and everythign to do with hype. I mean, if some magazine is going to tout something as the saviour of a genre, the best thing since sliced bread, but the rest of us find it to be utter mediocrity, which is realistically more likely to be the case than something out-and-out horrible, it's I guess more than a little exasperating for some. Alas I haven't been at university in a long time and so this kind of stuff is pretty easy to ignore. I mean friends who are not metalheads are not likely to listen to this stuff, and those that are are more likely to listen to...well, something that Pitchfork doesn't praise, I guess.
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Chaosmonger
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:55 pm 
 

that album cover reminds me more of Melvins' 'Bullhead', oddly enough haha

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ColeMiner
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:03 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:22 pm 
 

Pallbearer seems to be the most hated band here. The album might not be amazing but I don't find it offending or anything so that I'd hate it.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:44 pm 
 

Gave it a few listens. Interesting ideas with the melodies and atmosphere, but it's really boring and overlong. For all the layering, I wasn't impressed at all by the structuring within each song, it seems like they borrow some elements of doom metal as aesthetics, but fail to make use of them within the music. The overpresent tone yet inactivity of the rhythm guitar is more of a nuisance than a benefit in these ten minute songs. Similar to Deafheaven's failed incorporation of black metal aesthetics and overlong songs.

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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:09 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
...and overlong...


That's what I thought, too, when listening to it. I could probably like it if the songs were shortened a big deal.
But I generally have problems with songs over 4-5- minutes (apart from some few exceptions). So I don't
think I will be coming back to this band. Oh, and the cover is just ugly shit imo :nono: No criteria for the
music, sure, but well...
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doomster999
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:54 am 
 

Yea, haters gonna hate. Gave it a third listen and I love it as much as the debut. Also I don't recall being a hipster.

Zodijackyl wrote:
...and overlong...


Yea, man. You just stick to Illud Divinum Insanus.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:06 am 
 

Yeah, him giving a fair and reasonable criticism of the album is totally the same as you saying "haters gonna hate." That's a great fucking discussion.
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doomster999
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:11 am 
 

^ I know man. Pallbearer just aren't "too extreme". Hell, they don't like fraternizing with Nikki Sixx. Hehe. :-D
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gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm

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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:27 am 
 

This band is bland and boring. Seriously; I don't know what to say other than that. They instill no emotional response from me whatsoever, and I'm even having a hard time understanding how they manage to do that for anyone, be it in a positive or negative way. Pallbearer is the kind of band that you listen to once, say "eh, whatever", and promptly forget about.
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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:41 am 
 

Trashing Zodijackyl's review by using his Morbid Angel review is like beating 10 dead horses. "hahaha, I disagree with him, better make fun of another review he wrote!"
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:50 am 
 

I disagree with the hipster criticism. Only Brett Campbell even bears a strong aesthetic similarity, and the music isn't ironic, nor is it flimsy enough. They're just soft. That's about as bad as it gets. "Trend-hopping" yes, there's a case there. But in the end, musicians have to start somewhere, right? I guess i'm just willing to look the other way while they figure it out. It's pretty clear they're trying to expand and improve. Even though I don't like the sophomore, it's a worthwhile effort because I think it will eventually lead them to something more appropriate than doom, which is obviously not their strongest game. Essentially I think they're just playing the wrong kind of music.

At worst they're overrated. They might be dull to some (that's a taste thing, obviously), but there are far worse bands more worthy of this entrenched scorn. I'm not convinced Pallbearer is that pretentious, and I don't think they're bad enough. I think they're just .. well .. noobs. Soft, yes. Do Campbell's lyrics suck? yes. But I can't deny that musically the parts that aren't doomy are basically just fine and at times quite good (with a couple painful exceptions). Because of that, it doesn't surprise me that they're getting praise from the other side of the fence. Stylistically they're borderline, so it makes sense. While I guess I see where the frustration of principle comes from, I feel like Pallbearer makes for a pretty poor whipping boy.

I'm through the first draft of a review for the sophomore, so .. that's a thing.
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doomster999
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:38 pm 
 

The fact is they're not a riff oriented band. That's just not their forte. Their songs are all about the atmosphere and textures with a simple main riff and it works for me.
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gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm

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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:57 pm 
 

I suppose that just adds up to support for the fact that they shouldn't be playing metal. No riffs, no metal.

I agree with you on that point for the debut, but since the sophomore is more varied, it loses that for me. I'm going to be listening to it more as I work on this review, so since you're on listen 3 at least, you're well ahead of me on identification of nuances.
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doomster999
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:03 pm 
 

Well, their songs are not completely void of riffs or else they wouldn't be here on MA. They compose at least one or maximum two riffs per song. But riffs are not the highlight of their songwriting. I love riffs but I love Pallbearer solely because they can create a hopeless atmosphere which I find engaging.
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gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm

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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:58 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
I suppose that just adds up to support for the fact that they shouldn't be playing metal. No riffs, no metal.


What does that even mean, though? They play what they play, you can judge and assign a genre as you wish. Saying they "shouldn't play metal" doesn't make sense, because if they aren't playing metal, they aren't playing metal. Simple as that.

Some people don't like it, some people do, everything is as it should be. Personally, I'm not exactly sold on it as I was with their first album. I personally think the trio of The Ghost I Used to Be, Ashes and Vanished are a potent combo and rise to the excellence of their first offering, to varying degrees and in varying ways. The Ghost I Used to Be manages to be as hooky and yearning as songs like Foreigner, with vocal melodies and guitar riffs/textures that worm their way into your ear, Ashes is a wonderfully written, soft interlude and Vanished is smothering in crushing melancholia. The first part of the album is a bit plodding and directionless, in my opinion but still enjoyable for the style. It's basically Warning worship, and I know how polarizing they can be.

Metantoine: why does that Pitchfork review elicit the response of "they hate metal" in your mind? I'm sure that they do as they aren't really a metal magazine in any way, despite flirting with the genre, but I'm curious what it is about that review that makes you think that.

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ColeMiner
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:03 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:21 pm 
 

Saying this album is boring and overlong doesn't make any sense to me. The reason I listen to doom metal because its repetitive and has long songs. Why would someone expect anything else?

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:34 pm 
 

Because all of the best doom metal is not like that. Sabbath set the tone with albums that were usually just over 40 minutes, if that. Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Witchfinder General...they all understood how to do maximum damage without droning on forever. All that new super long super repetitive shit is not for some of us. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone besides Reverend Bizarre who pull that style off, and even they push beyond the breaking point usually at least once per album.
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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:40 pm 
 

Yeah, it really depends on where you come from in regards to listening to doom metal. Some people prefer the Sabbathian vein of rock influenced doom metal that focuses on catchy rhythms and riffs and short but sweet songs. Somewhere along the way, doom split off from traditionalist bands and took on epic and long winded qualities from outside it's usual pool of influence. Then again, Saint Vitus had some pretty long winded epics even back to their earliest days.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:44 pm 
 

Their debut has some longer songs but they were still smart enough to keep the album concise! And then there's Hallow's Victim...my god! That album is Circle Pit Doom!
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ColeMiner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:08 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Because all of the best doom metal is not like that. Sabbath set the tone with albums that were usually just over 40 minutes, if that. Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Witchfinder General...they all understood how to do maximum damage without droning on forever. All that new super long super repetitive shit is not for some of us. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone besides Reverend Bizarre who pull that style off, and even they push beyond the breaking point usually at least once per album.

I have listened to Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Witchfinder General and except for Saint Vitus the other two bands doesn't sound really doomy to me. But what do I know? I got into doom with death/doom so I want my doom to be depressive, boring, repetitive and overlong. For me, if its not like that its not doom metal. Witchfinder General sounds like rock music to me. I dont get the feeling of impending doom while listening to it. I find them rather fun to listen to.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:18 pm 
 

That's cool man, I'm glad you've found some really boring doom you enjoy! But to say that doom as a rule should be monotonous and tectonically slow is just wrong.
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ColeMiner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:28 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
That's cool man, I'm glad you've found some really boring doom you enjoy! But to say that doom as a rule should be monotonous and tectonically slow is just wrong.

Okay. Doom metal should be fast with a lot of variation. I'll call my slow and repetitive music something else. I dont have any problem with that. Maybe I'll call it Crawling Ghost Metal, sounds cooler than doom to me

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:35 pm 
 

Well, doom has a lot of different styles. Witchfinder General were an early 80s band and had a lot of similarities to rock, but the themes and the riffing style are doom all the way. Saint Vitus is practically the definition of doom metal as well. Doom is more about that heavy as fuck, groovy riffing style (the Sabbath-pioneered one from Master of Reality, to be specific) than being slow all the time, though slowness is definitely an aspect.

Listening to a track from this Pallbearer album now - sounds like Sabbath-tinted elevator music. Vocals have no personality and the riffing is incredibly safe and bland. This is coming from a guy who really liked that new Deafheaven album too by the way; I'm not trying to be all anti-hipster metal or anything. I'll try the full album sometime to get a more full opinion, but so far I think this is lacking in any personality that doom would normally require - there's no atmosphere to it. That's my initial take anyway.
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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:09 pm 
 

All real doom bands worship the riff.
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Heavy_T_Skubbs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:46 pm 
 

The word hipster appears thirty three times over the course of this thread.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:31 am 
 

Heavy_T_Skubbs wrote:
The word hipster appears thirty three times over the course of this thread.


Thirty-four or did you count yours?
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